Better and tougher downside for Wanda?

[SomebodyRandom]

2 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

That is peculiar. Would the low damage the whip does actually make the fight easier overall?

The low damage doesn't matter, it's the range and the durability. Fuelweaver can never reach you because the weapon has such high range that you can attack him almost forever without him ever getting even close to hitting you.

[Horsheen]

19 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I disagree though- I see Wanda respawning at the florid with her clocks still in her inventory (with the only exception being Age-less for obvious reasons) as Broken.

WORTOX does not Respawn with his souls, so if he doesn’t get the luxury of teleporting around the map back to his death location- Why should Wanda?

I also want someone At Klei or someone who is on PC and can look into the games code to clarify what THIS means..

 

I was under the assumption that Klei gave Catcoons new interactions exclusive to Wanda (as in when clocks are in her inventory they will become aggressive to her and attack stealing them like a mixture of how bunny men try to Murder you if you have meat on you when going near them, and how Piko/Pog/Moleworm/Splumonkey steal things as soon as they see them.)

Is this actually in the game (and Xbox just doesn’t have it yet??) or am I misunderstanding what this meant?

 

 

I agree somewhat, it's a pretty weird inconsistency with Wanda to have her respawn with her clocks. Ageless I can understand but the others not so much.

Also to clarify, if you drop a clock piece or a watch on the floor near a catcoon, they will now steal it off the ground, much like they do with other shiny things

[Mike23Ua]

35 minutes ago, Horsheen said:

I agree somewhat, it's a pretty weird inconsistency with Wanda to have her respawn with her clocks. Ageless I can understand but the others not so much.

Also to clarify, if you drop a clock piece or a watch on the floor near a catcoon, they will now steal it off the ground, much like they do with other shiny things

Thank You, but that’s just entirely situational.. when is a Wanda EVER going to just drop clock pieces near a Catcoon? I think it would’ve been Neat if she was the only HUMAN Character given the Monster treatment from them (they Attack Wortox & Webber on Sight) Instead of continuously attacking her, they Hit her once steal a clock or clock part and run off with it before growing bored of their new toy and leaving it behind.

This wouldn’t be the FIRST Mob capable of taking things right out the players inventory: Anytime a frog licks you you will drop items. So really it would just be one more Niche thing about Wanda, and YES this thread is about downsides: I think stealing clocks would totally count as a downside- and like ALL Downsides: One that’s only a Minor nuisance and not “Harsh Crippling Punishment.”

Klei is phasing out the Harsh downsides with each Rework, even WES became significantly easier to play- so Wanda shouldn’t become too difficult.

I do absolutely ADORE the thought of having the games Mobs interact with each character in different ways though like how Pigmen punch Webber, Wortox, Wormwood or Wurt on Sight.. Or how Bunnymen are more likely to punch Wigfrids due to what Wigfrid carries around. How peaceful Mobs can sometimes become hostile & how some hostile mobs become peaceful- I LOVE that part of the game.. it brings more character & charm to the world of Don’t Starve.

I really can’t think of a better downside to give Wanda that isn’t so punishing that it deters people from even wanting to play as her.

I’m not just factoring in skilled players who want to oddly suffer every second of their existence, I’m also factoring in the CASUALS who will go “Hey that cute little cat just hit me and ran off with my Clock!”

Basically this: 

Spoiler

But before this game EVER existed the ORIGINAL Dont Starve game from 2013 always had mobs that would hi-Jack your supplies.. So if it feels like this idea is straight up Ark Pegomastix- do keep in mind that before Ark ever existed, Dont Starve was already using the concept.

And before Dont Starve ever existed- Golden Axe had used it Decades ago.

I want to see more of that.. less really punishing downsides, and more easy to deal with downsides, but downsides that force you to play the game and interact with your world and it’s mobs in a brand new way.

The OTHER suggestion I had was to make it so that when her clocks take Water damage they will “Skip” back and fourth through time Uncontrollably until the watch is dried out..

So Yeah- Unless ya’ll want THAT, Catcoons being minor inconvenience’s to her is the best fun downside idea I’ve got to offer.

[Horsheen]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Thank You, but that’s just entirely situational.. when is a Wanda EVER going to just drop clock pieces near a Catcoon? I think it would’ve been Neat if she was the only HUMAN Character given the Monster treatment from them (they Attack Wortox & Webber on Sight) Instead of continuously attacking her, they Hit her once steal a clock or clock part and run off with it before growing bored of their new toy and leaving it behind.

This wouldn’t be the FIRST Mob capable of taking things right out the players inventory: Anytime a frog licks you you will drop items. So really it would just be one more Niche thing about Wanda, and YES this thread is about downsides: I think stealing clocks would totally count as a downside- and like ALL Downsides: One that’s only a Minor nuisance and not “Harsh Crippling Punishment.”

Klei is phasing out the Harsh downsides with each Rework, even WES became significantly easier to play- so Wanda shouldn’t become too difficult.

I do absolutely ADORE the thought of having the games Mobs interact with each character in different ways though like how Pigmen punch Webber, Wortox, Wormwood or Wurt on Sight.. Or how Bunnymen are more likely to punch Wigfrids due to what Wigfrid carries around. How peaceful Mobs can sometimes become hostile & how some hostile mobs become peaceful- I LOVE that part of the game.. it brings more character & charm to the world of Don’t Starve.

I really can’t think of a better downside to give Wanda that isn’t so punishing that it deters people from even wanting to play as her.

I’m not just factoring in skilled players who want to oddly suffer every second of their existence, I’m also factoring in the CASUALS who will go “Hey that cute little cat just hit me and ran off with my Clock!”

Basically this: 

  Reveal hidden contents

But before this game EVER existed the ORIGINAL Dont Starve game from 2013 always had mobs that would hi-Jack your supplies.. So if it feels like this idea is straight up Ark Pegomastix- do keep in mind that before Ark ever existed, Dont Starve was already using the concept.

And before Dont Starve ever existed- Golden Axe had used it Decades ago.

I want to see more of that.. less really punishing downsides, and more easy to deal with downsides, but downsides that force you to play the game and interact with your world and it’s mobs in a brand new way.

The OTHER suggestion I had was to make it so that when her clocks take Water damage they will “Skip” back and fourth through time Uncontrollably until the watch is dried out..

So Yeah- Unless ya’ll want THAT, Catcoons being minor inconvenience’s to her is the best fun downside idea I’ve got to offer.

Catcoon change for watches was really.....unneeded? As you say, when are you ever gonna just drop a clock beside a catcoon, or in general? I legit have never dropped a watch (unless I die and the revive one drops of course) and I've been playing her non stop since release

[Mysterious box]

On 9/11/2021 at 2:12 PM, Mike23Ua said:

This is a Late game tool* that most newer players won’t have- and if your referring to Wanda’s special Reviving watch: It breaks after she uses it.

However respawning at the portal WITH your watches still in your inventory shouldn’t be happening… no other character gets that treatment- Why should Wanda?

Because the crafting material is thulecite so if she dies to something that swipes loot or just can't get back to the spot she died in time it would be gg even with help that would make her unnecessarily hard for no reason it's also protection against getting robbed by other Wanda's as she is very thulecite hungry.

[Penguinbowler]

Ageless Wanda should definitely keep, otherwise she will legit just day every couple of days if she can't reach em in time since their so expensive. The other clocks I don't think she needs to keep though.

[Well-met]

On 9/12/2021 at 6:03 AM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

You can literally die by just forgeting to use your clock and the clocks cant be replaced easily if someone steals them

i fail to see how these two things aren't easily preventable

these are of your own fault

[TemporarySolutn]

On 9/11/2021 at 12:38 PM, Hornete said:

Her downside is pretty tough and challenging as is, you have only your watch for healing, quite literally nothing else in the game can heal you. Crafting more watches is also going to take quite some resources, (red gems, thule pieces, etc) so you may be stuck with your one watch for quite a small bit. Not to mention you also can't outheal tick damage like starvation, overheating and freezing(As being damaged cancels Wanda's heal, and vice versa), so those things can be even more dangerous to her if she's caught in them.

Heh, i've found so many people thinking they can get cocky with going to her old age only to end up dying(I've also evidently gotten a bit cocky at times )

 

all the downsides at this point is just kinda negligible, like Webber I was really hoping for a cool nerf to like infinite monster meat or something but nah

[Penguinbowler]

24 minutes ago, Well-met said:

i fail to see how these two things aren't easily preventable

these are of your own fault

Oh no I died on the Lunar Island!

Better get back there after respawning at base... wait who took my emergency Clock. I can't get to the ruins or Lunar ISland in time to reaquire a new clock.

Like, you have to Rush the Ruins if you spawn without a clock, in 5 days if you spawn at 20 years old, less if you respawn older or take damage. If you clocks are inaccesible or worse, stolen by another player, you will die before you can get enough thulecite to make enough watches to survive.

The non-ageless clocks are fine to be removed, but the Ageless one should 100% be kept on her when she spawns.

[Mike23Ua]

5 hours ago, Penguinbowler said:

Oh no I died on the Lunar Island!

Better get back there after respawning at base... wait who took my emergency Clock. I can't get to the ruins or Lunar ISland in time to reaquire a new clock.

Like, you have to Rush the Ruins if you spawn without a clock, in 5 days if you spawn at 20 years old, less if you respawn older or take damage. If you clocks are inaccesible or worse, stolen by another player, you will die before you can get enough thulecite to make enough watches to survive.

The non-ageless clocks are fine to be removed, but the Ageless one should 100% be kept on her when she spawns.

This^^ thank you, Age-less I understand her respawning with, but she shouldn’t be respawning with clock parts or the luxury ones like blink teleportation and opening wormholes between dimensions if she loses these: She should have to go recover them or make more…

Just like how when a Wickerbottom dies she losses all her books, or Maxwell his Codex Umbra, or Wendy Abigails flower, or (insert any other character here) why does WANDA get to Respawn after death with anything OTHER then the Age-less clock?

[Yuuko]

26 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This^^ thank you, Age-less I understand her respawning with, but she shouldn’t be respawning with clock parts or the luxury ones like blink teleportation and opening wormholes between dimensions if she loses these: She should have to go recover them or make more…

Just like how when a Wickerbottom dies she losses all her books, or Maxwell his Codex Umbra, or Wendy Abigails flower, or (insert any other character here) why does WANDA get to Respawn after death with anything OTHER then the Age-less clock?

To be fair - Wanda dying isn't like any of the other characters dying, as she doesn't actually die.  Hence she leaves no skeleton.  Her time is up and the hands came to get her.  I don't think she actually "dies from old age" as much as she made a deal that they could take her when she turned 80.  This benefit of hers is both pretty much mandatory because of her age mechanic, and also thematic like Wurt not dropping anything when she falls into the water.  Wurt still goes through the other penalties of drowning even though she "can swim," and Wanda goes through the whole ghost thing until she can get her body back, but thematically Wurt didn't drown, and Wanda didn't die.

I feel this benefit is kinda blown out of proportion here.  Its not really that big of a deal to keep a few things on you after death.  The main things, temperature control, food, walking cane, materials, etc, all fall to the ground with all of the things she might have been gathering meaning she'll still both need to get geared up again, and need to go back to get whatever she was there for.  Its not like dying becomes a preferable course of action in any situation just because she keeps a few things on her.

[HowlVoid]

I'm surprised anyone is even dying by running out of time and to be honest its their fault.

I don't know seems to me like people want the game to hold their hand and tell them, "Hey, heal up or you'll die soon :)". 

Its part of the difficulty with Wanda not to be careless with time, its like all she talks about, I don't have time for this! I don't have time for that!

This is why I always defult to staying in Adult form. After clearing a boss fight its straight to adult form. Any one dying by just running out of time needs to deploy a different strategy. If you're staying in her old age for long periods of time to reap the rewards you better also be ready to pay the piper. 

[xhyom]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

I feel this benefit is kinda blown out of proportion here.  Its not really that big of a deal to keep a few things on you after death.  The main things, temperature control, food, walking cane, materials, etc, all fall to the ground with all of the things she might have been gathering meaning she'll still both need to get geared up again, and need to go back to get whatever she was there for.  Its not like dying becomes a preferable course of action in any situation just because she keeps a few things on her.

Period. People just want to have a reason to nerf a perfectly fine character, her main issues was the infinite reviving watch which got fixed.

And, well, i don't play endless so every time i die i normally revive myself or get revived by someone else at the exact location i died so it don't affect me in the least

 

[Yuuko]

12 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I'm surprised anyone is even dying by running out of time and to be honest its their fault.

[Hornete]

19 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

I'm surprised anyone is even dying by running out of time and to be honest its their fault.

thinkin' about my friend who played Wanda and while we were farming they just straight up died because they forgot to check their age.

Some people die as Wanda from fighting great battles at high age.

My friend died while farming, not even from lord fruitfly, just from forgetfulness 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 minutes ago, Hornete said:

thinkin' about my friend who played Wanda and while we were farming they just straight up died because they forgot to check their age.

Some people die as Wanda from fighting great battles at high age.

My friend died while farming, not even from lord fruitfly, just from forgetfulness 

my friend (we were both wanda) die by just walking, he forgot to use the clock so i start laghing. When i decided to use the second chance clock on him a eathquake started and i died because 3 rows in a row stunlocked me xD

in my world i die by just messing to dodge vs rook tier 3, both clock i had with me didnt refresh in time. Was so exciting fighting knowing that the clock will reach the 80 years old. Died, revive with the LGA i left far away  and come back to pick up my stuff by dodging with the backstep clock, got my armor and decided to keep fighting.

.

.

.

the tier 3 rook was 1 hit away of dying 

[Mike23Ua]

25 minutes ago, xhyom said:

Period. People just want to have a reason to nerf a perfectly fine character, her main issues was the infinite reviving watch which got fixed.

And, well, i don't play endless so every time i die i normally revive myself or get revived by someone else at the exact location i died so it don't affect me in the least

 

Just because you don’t play endless doesn’t mean Wanda doesn’t need better balance for Endless mode.

I see her losing all her watches  (with exception to Ageless) at death as NO DIFFERENT from me playing as Wes in Winter or Summer season and dying somewhere out in the world with all the gear I need to survive those seasons with: The results is having to craft “get-by” items to survive the cold or heat just to get back to your better tier loot at your dead Carcass.

I want a nerf on her because NO OTHER CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE GAME RESPAWNS AT THE PORTAL WITH INVENTORY ITEMS AFTER DYING..

For Wanda other then the Ageless (which is required to stay alive).. why are her rules different? Why does she Respawn with backtrek or watch parts still in inventory?? 

Will the future of DST be “Players keep entire inventory after dying” like how you can set those settings in Minecraft or 7 Days to Die?

Im sorry but I HATE games where dying is pointless.. and your not punished for it.

Its literally why I play games like State of Decay or the Original DS where dying was Permanent.

[Yuuko]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Just because you don’t play endless doesn’t mean Wanda doesn’t need better balance for Endless mode.

I see her losing all her watches  (with exception to Ageless) at death as NO DIFFERENT from me playing as Wes in Winter or Summer season and dying somewhere out in the world with all the gear I need to survive those seasons with: The results is having to craft “get-by” items to survive the cold or heat just to get back to your better tier loot at your dead Carcass.

I want a nerf on her because NO OTHER CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE GAME RESPAWNS AT THE PORTAL WITH INVENTORY ITEMS AFTER DYING..

For Wanda other then the Ageless (which is required to stay alive).. why are her rules different? Why does she Respawn with backtrek or watch parts still in inventory?? 

Will the future of DST be “Players keep entire inventory after dying” like how you can set those settings in Minecraft or 7 Days to Die?

Im sorry but I HATE games where dying is pointless.. and your not punished for it.

Its literally why I play games like State of Decay or the Original DS where dying was Permanent.

I don't see Wurt losing gear when she drowns as ANY DIFFERENT then if Wes drowns...  Except Wurt doesn't drown...  so that's why its different...  Wanda doesn't die, she just needs to get her time back.

Dying isn't pointless - you still need ALL of the other gear.  If you die in summer and you don't have any way to keep your temp down all the watches in the world aren't going to stop you from dying to overheat again...

Reeeeally making a mountain out of a mole hill here.

I give you a simple task - tell me a single situation in which I would choose to die as Wanda rather than live just because I get to keep my clocks, and I'll believe that his has any meaningful impact on the game at all...

[Mike23Ua]

Keeping the clocks means she has a faster time getting to and from point A to point B- Where everyone else would be walking back at normal walking speed: This chick will instead be dropping wormholes and blink teleporting back to her stuff (and back) in significantly faster and rather ironically “time”

It may have little impact on Survival or Wilderness Mode but on Endless it’s a pretty huge difference.

Even the mighty soul hopping Wortox has to take time to walk around punching butterflies to get his souls back which dying in Winter or Summer and having to travel back from the portal to your stuff while time is constantly against you as you freeze or overheat on the way there.. Ironically as I said TIME is Everything here..

[Yuuko]

38 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Keeping the clocks means she has a faster time getting to and from point A to point B- Where everyone else would be walking back at normal walking speed: This chick will instead be dropping wormholes and blink teleporting back to her stuff (and back) in significantly faster and rather ironically “time”

It may have little impact on Survival or Wilderness Mode but on Endless it’s a pretty huge difference.

Even the mighty soul hopping Wortox has to take time to walk around punching butterflies to get his souls back which dying in Winter or Summer and having to travel back from the portal to your stuff while time is constantly against you as you freeze or overheat on the way there.. Ironically as I said TIME is Everything here..

It would be impressive IF she had a backtrec clock mapped to the place where she died, in her inventory, that wasn't on cd...  But more likely the backtrec watch that is mapped to where she died is left somewhere else.  Its not very useful to have a watch that only teleports you to where you are XD  You'll probably leave that at base, and have a different watch with you that teleports you back, meaning the one in your inventory isn't going to recover your gear...

If you even keep it in your inventory...  she would actually leave those where she would leave her LGA to revive anyway...  Carrying that with you would only serve to clutter her inventory more than it already is...

Have you played Wanda much?  This seems like a perspective that is untested and inexperienced.  Like you've latched on to the thought that this thing is op but haven't played it to find out.

Also idk why this would effect Endless any different then Survival...  You can leave equipment at the portal to help you when you revive as easy as you can anywhere else.  And Wilderness doesn't allow revival so none of this has any implications there at all...

[xhyom]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Just because you don’t play endless doesn’t mean Wanda doesn’t need better balance for Endless mode.

Balance for a extremely casual mode where death means nothing at all? I don't understand how can it be so gamebreaking to have a weapon when you respawn. And, well.. she literally can revive herself where she died.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Im sorry but I HATE games where dying is pointless.. and your not punished for it.

Oh, you mean... Endless? 

 

 

[Mike23Ua]

13 minutes ago, xhyom said:

Balance for a extremely casual mode where death means nothing at all? I don't understand how can it be so gamebreaking to have a weapon when you respawn. And, well.. she literally can revive herself where she died.

Oh, you mean... Endless? 

 

 

Reviving herself where she died destroys the clock in the process so it’s NOT without penalty. People play Endless for various reasons: Respawning from the florid Postern after you become a ghost is Core part of this mode- Respawning at this portal with things still in your inventory is not..

You guys want a Scenario where Wanda OP please nerf? Fine: She respawns at the portal WITH the Backtrek watch in her inventory.. so, her “previous steps” start recording from the Postern she respawns at and follows her back to her loot. After which she can Backtrek and cut TIME to get back to a previous steps location. This would NOT be happening if she dropped this watch upon Death… because it ONLY starts recording her steps Whilst it is in her inventory MEANING when she picks up all her dropped belongings from her death location: The Watch doesn’t have any “previous steps” recorded to cut the time it takes to return to a previous location.

Completely Disregard Life giving Amulets, or Telltale heart revivals (or inserts any other revival method here)- I am complaining very specifically about floating your dead ghost back to a Touchstone or the portal you spawned into the game from: And having items still in your inventory that makes that travel from the stone/portal to your dead carcass and back again significantly easier for her.

Needs Nerf.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You guys want a Scenario where Wanda OP please nerf? Fine: She respawns at the portal WITH the Backtrek watch in her inventory.. so, her “previous steps” start recording from the Postern she respawns at and follows her back to her loot. After which she can Backtrek and cut TIME to get back to a previous steps location. This would NOT be happening if she dropped this watch upon Death… because it ONLY starts recording her steps Whilst it is in her inventory MEANING when she picks up all her dropped belongings from her death location: The Watch doesn’t have any “previous steps” recorded to cut the time it takes to return to a previous location.

Why are you spaming that much commends to nerf wanda if clearly you didnt played her enough 

That isnt how the clock works

[SomebodyRandom]

29 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You guys want a Scenario where Wanda OP please nerf? Fine: She respawns at the portal WITH the Backtrek watch in her inventory.. so, her “previous steps” start recording from the Postern she respawns at and follows her back to her loot. After which she can Backtrek and cut TIME to get back to a previous steps location. This would NOT be happening if she dropped this watch upon Death… because it ONLY starts recording her steps Whilst it is in her inventory MEANING when she picks up all her dropped belongings from her death location: The Watch doesn’t have any “previous steps” recorded to cut the time it takes to return to a previous location.

Mike are you good?

You just confused Backtrek Watch and Backstep Watch and it doesn't even work like that.

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

You guys want a Scenario where Wanda OP please nerf? Fine: She respawns at the portal WITH the Backtrek watch in her inventory.. so, her “previous steps” start recording from the Postern she respawns at and follows her back to her loot. After which she can Backtrek and cut TIME to get back to a previous steps location. This would NOT be happening if she dropped this watch upon Death… because it ONLY starts recording her steps Whilst it is in her inventory MEANING when she picks up all her dropped belongings from her death location: The Watch doesn’t have any “previous steps” recorded to cut the time it takes to return to a previous location.

What I asked for was a situation where you would choose to die exploiting that you keep certain things in your inventory rather than take any other reasonable course of action.  I asked for this because without it ever being a "good choice" all it does is soften the blow.  Hard for this to be called "OP" like freeze locking bosses etc.  Especially with her theme being that she doesn't actually die...

Your situation is a bit off too - you're saying that you would ghost to the portal, and use a backtrek watch which is targeting close enough to your corpse that you would be able to hop in, collect your gear, and backstep back.  Backstep only records so many steps, it takes 2 seconds between hop, and you probably have more to do than just pick up your gear XD  If its premeditated enough that you'd have a backtrek watch targeting where you died with no other obstacles between you and your gear, you'd probably just have a backtrek watch targeting the portal and leave without dying XD

You could also just have a backtrek watch left at your LGA / Portal (doesn't really matter what you res on, you can build LGA in Endless too) that is targeting the area you're likely to go (say ruins) and a watch that brings you back, and blip in and out without consideration of what she keeps with her ghost...  So really this is kinda irrelevant.  IF your problem is that she could get back to her gear, and then back to base quickly, you don't actually have a problem with her keeping certain things on death.  You're saying that Backtrek watches are OP, because you don't need to keep anything on your ghost for this kinda of blippery to work...