Better and tougher downside for Wanda?

[Echsrick]

i do kinda wish there was something of an upside to her young age then just be able to craft at normal speed and actualy able to take a hit

[HowlVoid]

12 minutes ago, Dr.Medic said:

i do kinda wish there was something of an upside to her young age then just be able to craft at normal speed and actualy able to take a hit

Well she does have 1.20 damage increase, that synergizes with a long range weapon she has available at all times, and this weapon can be refueled in this form too.

Even in this form she's better than Wigfrid imo.

I've never been so unbothered with insanity in this game. Even in her young form shadows go down with minimal effort and they just fuel my weapon; always at a large net gain. She needs 0 buffs, this character shouldn't receive any more changes imho.

Her adult form is really easy to maintain too, if you want to kill nightmares in one less hit. 

[Horsheen]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

see now.. that’s overpowered. 
Wendy doesn’t just Respawn with a new Abigails flower, Woodie doesn’t just Respawn with a new Ax, They actually have to travel BACK to their death locations and pick that stuff back up.

I imagine it was just an Over-Sight on Klei’s part with Wanda on her release.

I don't really think this is OP lol, it's just convenient

[Terra B Welch]

5 hours ago, Hornete said:

Yes!



It's niche, but you can tank a theoretically infinite amount of damage from one hit.

I'm getting earthbound/mother 2 health mechanic vibes from this.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

the only thing that is so stong is her weapon, everything else is balanced

[Seero]

5 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

2. A lot of people either watch gameplay of Wanda by fairly skilled streamers or in already established worlds, where her downsides are much less noticeable and her upsides are way more apparent.

refer to what I said in the demonrebuilt video thread before she came out
he barely talked about her downsides, and made the video about upsides very easy for people in this forum to think she's op because of that

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

see now.. that’s overpowered. 
Wendy doesn’t just Respawn with a new Abigails flower, Woodie doesn’t just Respawn with a new Ax, They actually have to travel BACK to their death locations and pick that stuff back up.

I imagine it was just an Over-Sight on Klei’s part with Wanda on her release.

6 hours ago, Toros said:

The whip bug does need to be fixed because it’s not intended that Wanda is able to stunlock targets the way she currently can.

 

some enemies have shorter attack range then the whip?

[Terra B Welch]

23 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the only thing that is so stong is her weapon, everything else is balanced

I think her weapon is fine, it only really does damage when fueled, and its higher damage is countered by a slower attack speed, even if it has whip range. Not to mention if you want it to really hit hard you have to play glass cannon.

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, Horsheen said:

I don't really think this is OP lol, it's just convenient

It depends on what watches she keeps in her possession- I obviously understand why she keeps the first watch but I don’t see for example keeping second chances watch in her inventory as “Fair” because of how absurdly broken such a thing is, I was playing in a server with other players & found it to be utterly ridiculous that anytime they died they could float to me for me to revive them back at their death location.. so in a scenario where everyone dies to Deerclops- Wanda goes back to portal respawns, others go to Wanda get revived at their dead bodies to retry their failure.

Anyone who doesn’t see that as broken is kidding themselves.. at least make Wanda have to go recover her clocks from her own dead body- With the single exception being of course the Age-Less 

(though Catcoons can steal any and all clocks because they’re attracted to the shiny noise making toys)

[Souper]

14 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It depends on what watches she keeps in her possession- I obviously understand why she keeps the first watch but I don’t see for example keeping second chances watch in her inventory as “Fair” because of how absurdly broken such a thing is, I was playing in a server with other players & found it to be utterly ridiculous that anytime they died they could float to me for me to revive them back at their death location.. so in a scenario where everyone dies to Deerclops- Wanda goes back to portal respawns, others go to Wanda get revived at their dead bodies to retry their failure.

Anyone who doesn’t see that as broken is kidding themselves.. at least make Wanda have to go recover her clocks from her own dead body- With the single exception being of course the Age-Less 

(though Catcoons can steal any and all clocks because they’re attracted to the shiny noise making toys)

I'm not really sure you understand what people are saying. This isn't an oversight by Klei. It's the exact opposite, in fact. They specifically implemented this feature so that Wanda players don't lose their watches to others. Also, she doesn't keep the second chance watch in her inventory when she dies. It's the only one that drops so she can actually revive from it...

Also I don't see the issue with players coming to you for revives if they specifically want to revive at their bodies. That's one of the perks of reviving via Wanda...

[ArubaroBeefalo]

22 minutes ago, Terra B Welch said:

I think her weapon is fine, it only really does damage when fueled, and its higher damage is countered by a slower attack speed, even if it has whip range. Not to mention if you want it to really hit hard you have to play glass cannon.

i didnt mean that she needs a nerf on her weapon just that is funny reading people saying that wanda is op because silly things like if they didnt knew how the character actually work when playing. Complaing about her healing or reviving with her clocks just makes not sense

about the weapon is the best weapon of the game to the point of making using any other weapon a waste, in addition is cheap for being infinity, sure you waste a lot of nightmere fuel but only as much as using darkswords (actually less since you do more damage than a wilson with the dark sword), also with its range makes most fights easier which isnt bad since i dont think that klei wanted to release a dlc character as challenger as wes but isnt as difficult as other said neither, you can be at medium age for just scouting so you can have room for mistakes and deal crazy damage from a safe distance. She is difficult without being frustrating and pay offs a lot if you know the game

And, again, what always people forget, to be truly strong you need to be in danger, even if the night armor makes you last a lot longer there is the need of taking in count that you cant heal like others, even wormwood or warly has less problems with healing. I almost die in the middle of a boss fight just because i forget to check how much age i was gaining passively 

basically playing as wolfgang if you use granny/playing as wigfrid if you use medium age but filled with interesting downsides 

[Horsheen]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

It depends on what watches she keeps in her possession- I obviously understand why she keeps the first watch but I don’t see for example keeping second chances watch in her inventory as “Fair” because of how absurdly broken such a thing is, I was playing in a server with other players & found it to be utterly ridiculous that anytime they died they could float to me for me to revive them back at their death location.. so in a scenario where everyone dies to Deerclops- Wanda goes back to portal respawns, others go to Wanda get revived at their dead bodies to retry their failure.

Anyone who doesn’t see that as broken is kidding themselves.. at least make Wanda have to go recover her clocks from her own dead body- With the single exception being of course the Age-Less 

(though Catcoons can steal any and all clocks because they’re attracted to the shiny noise making toys)

This is no different to wanda just using an LGA or the clock itself to revive herself though

[Mike23Ua]

54 minutes ago, Horsheen said:

This is no different to wanda just using an LGA or the clock itself to revive herself though

I disagree though- I see Wanda respawning at the florid with her clocks still in her inventory (with the only exception being Age-less for obvious reasons) as Broken.

WORTOX does not Respawn with his souls, so if he doesn’t get the luxury of teleporting around the map back to his death location- Why should Wanda?

I also want someone At Klei or someone who is on PC and can look into the games code to clarify what THIS means..

 

I was under the assumption that Klei gave Catcoons new interactions exclusive to Wanda (as in when clocks are in her inventory they will become aggressive to her and attack stealing them like a mixture of how bunny men try to Murder you if you have meat on you when going near them, and how Piko/Pog/Moleworm/Splumonkey steal things as soon as they see them.)

Is this actually in the game (and Xbox just doesn’t have it yet??) or am I misunderstanding what this meant?

 

 

[Spino43]

I am perfectly fine with Wanda's clocks stay with her even when she dies. Her perks and life depend on them. Not to mention her watch crafts are expensive so it's justifiable.

Other characters' unique items can be either easily re-obtained, not entirely depend on them to survive, and some can be even used by other characters.

 

[Mike23Ua]

10 minutes ago, Spino43 said:

I am perfectly fine with Wanda's clocks stay with her even when she dies. Her perks and life depend on them. Not to mention her watch crafts are expensive so it's justifiable.

Other characters' unique items can be either easily re-obtained, not entirely depend on them to survive, and some can be even used by other characters.

 

Age-less watch only… the others- are purely additional luxury and not actually required to ensure her survival- she doesn’t NEED the ability to open rifts or blink teleport around the map at her finger tips at all times- Those should rightfully have to be earned.. 

But the very reason those clocks are so expensive to replace to begin with is because of how much additional utility they give to Wanda.

And I’m fine with her having the clocks.. just make her have to go recover them after dying With the sole exception being Age-less for obvious staying alive reasons.

(I would however program Catcoons to steal any and all clocks..) because they pretty easy to kill and would only be a “Minor inconvenience” to Wanda players simply chase them down and kill them to recover your stollen clocks- It’s Adorable & it’s Tragic at the same time….

But Wigfrid will probably thank you later for that extra tasty Catcoon meat.

This thread is about downsides, The picture I provided was from a statement released from Klei themselves, So I want to see Catcoons actually become a tiny minor threat to Wanda.

[kilobit]

44 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

WORTOX does not Respawn with his souls, so if he doesn’t get the luxury of teleporting around the map back to his death location- Why should Wanda?

You can literally get souls by killing butterflies

[Yuuko]

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

It depends on what watches she keeps in her possession- I obviously understand why she keeps the first watch but I don’t see for example keeping second chances watch in her inventory as “Fair” because of how absurdly broken such a thing is, I was playing in a server with other players & found it to be utterly ridiculous that anytime they died they could float to me for me to revive them back at their death location.. so in a scenario where everyone dies to Deerclops- Wanda goes back to portal respawns, others go to Wanda get revived at their dead bodies to retry their failure.

She drops her revive watches on death, so she'll have to go back and get those before she can revive the party.

There are also times you don't want to revive where you died.  If you are in the caves and your lantern is probably out of juice, or you were using a thermal stone in winter / summer, died in a hostile area like reed trap, etc you would probably rather revive in camp and get outfitted to reclaim your gear.  Otherwise Wanda might need to go to your skeleton before reviving you anyway to make sure you actually stay alive.

Also this is her perk - it should be a good point of the character.  Might as well complain about Battle Helms being better than football helmets.  Its one of the things she gets to do, its thematic, and honestly its NOT broken.  Sure you save a bit of materials vs life giving amulets, and a bit of time walking back to where you died, but the savings are actually kinda negligible.  LGA is 3 gold, 2 nm fuel, 1 red gem.  Not really that expensive...  If those materials are really hard to get you might be opting to play on Endless mode anyway in which case the cost of revive is free anyway...

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I also want someone At Klei or someone who is on PC and can look into the games code to clarify what THIS means..

 

I was under the assumption that Klei gave Catcoons new interactions exclusive to Wanda (as in when clocks are in her inventory they will become aggressive to her and attack stealing them like a mixture of how bunny men try to Murder you if you have meat on you when going near them, and how Piko/Pog/Moleworm/Splumonkey steal things as soon as they see them.)

Is this actually in the game (and Xbox just doesn’t have it yet??) or am I misunderstanding what this meant?

Catcoons steal things already, these are just added to the list of things they'll steal.  Catcoons don't aggro anyone carrying other things they steal, so I wouldn't expect them to attack Wanda just b/c her watches and parts are on their list lol  Also I don't think it would be any big deal for catcoons to aggro Wanda, like I probably wouldn't even notice it...  I've never noticed it when I'm playing Webber or Wortox so like, pretty meh level suggestion imo...  Adding it wouldn't change the feel of the character, so why put any effort into adding such a niche detail?

[-Variant]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I disagree though- I see Wanda respawning at the florid with her clocks still in her inventory (with the only exception being Age-less for obvious reasons) as Broken.

WORTOX does not Respawn with his souls, so if he doesn’t get the luxury of teleporting around the map back to his death location- Why should Wanda?

I also want someone At Klei or someone who is on PC and can look into the games code to clarify what THIS means..

 

I was under the assumption that Klei gave Catcoons new interactions exclusive to Wanda (as in when clocks are in her inventory they will become aggressive to her and attack stealing them like a mixture of how bunny men try to Murder you if you have meat on you when going near them, and how Piko/Pog/Moleworm/Splumonkey steal things as soon as they see them.)

Is this actually in the game (and Xbox just doesn’t have it yet??) or am I misunderstanding what this meant?

You're over thinking it. They just pick up the clock parts if left on the ground like other items they play with. Moleworms do it too.

[MikoFanboy]

14 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

I think it has already been voiced that Wanda's new downside is outweighed by her powers

I think it has already been voiced that Wigfird's "only eat meat downside" is outweighed by every meat dish

I think it has already been voiced that Wormwood's "can't heal from food downside" is outweighed by every other healing methods

I think it has already been voiced that Wx78's "damaged by water downside" is outweighed by the eyebrella

seriously, can we stop using this argument? 

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, -Variant said:

You're over thinking it. They just pick up the clock parts if left on the ground like other items they play with. Moleworms do it too.

Oh well that’s lame: it only steals them if they are just left on the ground?? When is a Wanda EVER going to EVER just leave her clocks laying around on the ground?! Lol.. that’s even more impossible to do when she respawns with most of them still in her inventory. (Really hoping they patch this so the only one she respawns with is the Age-less..)

I think it would’ve been really “Cute” to have them attack her and steal her clocks from her inventory running away with them- Unfortunately having to be chased down and killed to retrieve the stollen highly important items back in the process.

Cats are actually well known to steal things- Especially shiny things!

https://www.backyardcatenclosures.com.au/blogs/cute-cat/cats-that-steal-5-cutest-cat-burglar-videos
 

it would be like well kinda like This:

This is what I was hoping the post from the Devs meant but that doesn’t appear to be the case.  
 

I even posted this in the Suggestions page but it’s not really my suggestion- Since Klei’s wording made me thing that’s what it was gonna be like. 

[cropo]

Wanda only has one true advantage in my opinion and that's being able to set up an entire teleport network around the entire game and that's amazing.

 

Her Clock is really good, don't get me wrong it's insanely good but I don't think it's enough of a benefit that would make one pick her over Wigfrid or Wolfgang. Even if she can do higher damage than Wolfgang in theory, having to cling so badly to near-death makes it impractical to me. 

Being able to ''kill shadow creatures really fast'' isn't really that big a deal? I walk around when building with 0 sanity to passively farm Nightmare fuel over and over it's not hard to do this with any character.

Her revival clock also wasn't a big deal to me either. Life-giving amulets are not an expensive item to craft. I have like 80 of them sitting around. I literally start throwing them out to lureplants as I keep getting them from Klaus every year.

Her Backstep watch is something Wortox can do, and can actively control and just isn't really needed. I mean it helps and it's cool don't get me wrong but I wouldn't consider it overpowered or broken.

 

She can kinda do nice things that other characters can do, but her health downside in my opinion is a bigger deal than most people want to make it out to be. The only time it isn't a problem is if the player is so insanely good that they can no-hit every boss and threat in the game....and guess what? That makes YOU good, not Wanda and you should be rewarded for that, not nerfed.  I don't think she needs a bigger downside, it's present enough to be a limiting factor for her, but not stupidly damning like Vanilla Willows base-burning bullcrap downside.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

At this points some users are just complaining because complaining. Disscusing if is op to spawn with her clocks or that catcoons dont steal the time pieces from your pockets is op i just wanting to ruin a fun character just to try to show to random internet people "hey, im so good that the new difficult character needs nerfa everywhere but i didnt played her actually"

Later we complain if wendy has useless elixirs, wigfrid useless songs or walter underwhelming rounds

Try the character, try to play more than 1st autumn and do difficult things, not just walking arround picking flowers and chatting with other players

You can literally die by just forgeting to use your clock and the clocks cant be replaced easily if someone steals them

So, lets ask for difficulty instead of annoying things

Nobody has complaing about her weapong and backstep clock bugging mobs AI do you know why? Because all the people complaing didnt played her, just watched and stream and get mad

[FreyaMaluk]

17 hours ago, QuartzBeam said:

SomebodyRandom beat me to it, but yeah, these posts are going off the Klei Ambassador beta version.
The two common complaints people had with the beta (insane damage on the unfueled alarming clock and functional immortality via the second chance watch) were both fixed before Wanda was made available to the public.

exactly

[SomebodyRandom]

13 hours ago, Seero said:

some enemies have shorter attack range then the whip?

That reminds me, I was laughing so hard when I figured out that Fuelweaver's phase 1 could be cheesed with a Tail o'  Three Cats since he could never attack. Anyway so Wanda came along.

[Seero]

44 minutes ago, SomebodyRandom said:

That reminds me, I was laughing so hard when I figured out that Fuelweaver's phase 1 could be cheesed with a Tail o'  Three Cats since he could never attack. Anyway so Wanda came along.

for bosses like fuelweaver, it could activate a new attack if you keep stunning him with ranged melee

I cannot comprehend the fact that the alarm clock hits longer then some enemies is an oversight by the devs
if you make your attack range long, surely it will be longer than someone elses?

[ZombieDupe]

13 hours ago, MikoFanboy said:

I think it has already been voiced that Wigfird's "only eat meat downside" is outweighed by every meat dish

I think it has already been voiced that Wormwood's "can't heal from food downside" is outweighed by every other healing methods

I think it has already been voiced that Wx78's "damaged by water downside" is outweighed by the eyebrella

seriously, can we stop using this argument? 

You misunderstood my point about drawback, read some later points further into the thread and you'll get it. But in short Eyebrella isn't WX exclusive, healing items aren't Wormwood exclusive (aside from compost wrap and the small healing of manure items), there are no exclusive meat dishes Wigfrid has she can get much easier that make the meat necessity much more simple (though she has an indirect loss of that need by being better at handling combat by default).

That's actually why later I provided WX78, Wickerbottom and Wortox as examples because there is nothing in their special abilities that make their downside easier, and not Wormwood or Wigfrid as that's not entirely true. Maxwell could be another good example, nothing special you can do as him will ever help with the small health cap he has, his abilities make other things easier, you still struggle with the small health pool regardless. If you feel like you have more to say about this point, please try to understand the point better next time and read further into the thread, there is no point in addressing what has already been said again here.

@ArubaroBeefalo sounds like you're just making stuff up to give yourself a reason to scoff at something.

7 hours ago, SomebodyRandom said:

That reminds me, I was laughing so hard when I figured out that Fuelweaver's phase 1 could be cheesed with a Tail o'  Three Cats since he could never attack. Anyway so Wanda came along.

That is peculiar. Would the low damage the whip does actually make the fight easier overall?

On 9/11/2021 at 8:33 PM, Nettalie said:

That does not really make sense with what I said though? How does her weapon damage changing in age get nullified entirely by her watches later on? Using her alarming clock outside of bigger boss fights can not only be extremely costly longterm, but in order to squeeze the full potential out of it you'd have to stay old, which in itself has the drawback of you being closer to death (That's how risk vs. reward works, you have a risk, here in the form of said drawback, for a reward, here in the form of bonus damage output). Not to mention that since her health is effectively tied to her age that staying old is heavily at the mercy of your environment.
This may not be an issue in something such as a day 5 grassy biome, but put Wanda in the ruins, which she is heavily incentivised to go to for her watches, and suddenly you could be in huge trouble during nightmare phase when you're at the cusp of death and can't heal in peace with your health ticking down steadily. If your armor then breaks and you don't happen to have another piece on you, you'll find yourself scrambling to craft some but effectively hindered by her slower craft speed at old age.

Plus this is basically assuming that ""early to mid game"" does not exist or is not there for long enough to matter, when in reality that is usually the part of the game people will be playing the most, unless we're talking purely about the most core part of the community who already know how to entirely deal with any and all downsides of each character.

And lastly it is also very important to keep in mind how expensive her tools really are. Her Backtrek watches require walrus tusks and 2 time pieces, her alarming clock requires 3 time pieces, 4 marble and 8 nightmare fuel, her ageless watch 2 marble and a red gem.
Those materials are really costly to get, especially the time pieces, and while in a solo environment this would not be too big of a deal, with multiple people, multiple wandas especially, this means everybody is competing for resources that are either incredibly annoying to farm or require a larger set up to obtain reliably.
Even just making additional ageless watches means you are using up a red gem which somebody else probably would have liked to use for a life giving amulet on top of taking up that extra inventory slot i mentioned earlier.
 

From what I can understand what I said absolutely makes sense with everything you said, and I fail to see how what you're adding onto the point now changes anything about it. Her downside for the most part is relevant early on, then once you have all the watches you need, it is a choice unless you're bad at the game. If you're in combat and choose to take the risky old age route, that is entirely on you to make sure you don't die or have means to resurrect if you do die.

Think of it like overpreparing for raid bosses, or any dangerous scenario really, if that makes sense. Not something you are forced by the game to struggle with anywhere near as much at that late stage of the game because your plethora of buffs almost outweigh that problem entirely. If you get almost stunned to death, then you usually would have died as any other character as well, and if not that's a very specific case.