Magnum of Spade Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Thanks for the update Joew. It seems really interesting and I'm really excited about how this is going to work. It's really great how you guys are always trying to improve the game for all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DST_LSJ Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 3 hours ago, JoeW said: While we did accomplish these things, the side effects were numerous and in return encouraged abuse of the system as well as degraded the quality of the category on Twitch. We had enough viewers to make the category interesting for new streamers (good and bad) but not enough to draw notice from Twitch moderation when abuse would occur. KLei is not qualified to dictate what is the way that players enjoy the game. In other words, as long as players pay attention to and enjoy One stream, then there is purpose in this stream. Twitch Drops bring only traffic and explosive data, which is not helpful to the development of the community. Players should have their own way of enjoying the game. Instead,Twitch Drops divide the people who watch the game and those who play the game. Keeping listening is a consistent action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulbah Bulbah Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 If I don't get chosen that's okay! I still love the game and still love this community. Klei, you guy's are doing a fantastic job. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlVoid Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 1 hour ago, GLERMZ said: What he did was breaking ToS rules to make a "living". Unless you ok with people going agaisnt the rules to make a living, you shouldn't support people who do it. I never said that what he did was right. He was just convenient to watch and wandered what was going to happen to him. As for supporting him, I work late into the night usually get home at 7:30pm. No one was on during that time in the old system. Quote It's stated in this thread that Klei will try to assure there is always someone to watch at any given time. The system will not be 100% perfect but it will be much better than the previous one for the category, 100%. And I don't doubt them. You have to understand this affects people like me who work long days and and on some weekends. I missed the salt shaker because I was working at the time and didn't know to check that week. Quote Also who is to say you would have these skins if it wasn't for Klei wanting to help and support their content creators? I never argued this point. Did you read what I wrote? Im very happy that klei is supporting content creators. I think you took what I said personally because I said streaming is boring to me. Quote Maybe the reason you have a chance on these skins is because of the people who create content of the game and Klei wanting to help them by giving opportunities of others, unlike you, who might actually enjoy watching someone play and learn from them. Now you are attacking me... Listen, I love content creators. I am personally sub'ed to both you and jazzy to learn new strategies. I am not conceited enough to think I know everything and am the best. I know your a good person so I do apologize if I insulted you. Now, what I said was straight forward and blunt because, again, it affects me greatly and I depended on that russian guy's channel. The last line might of been what you call "sassy", but never did I mean to attack you or Jazzy. Forgot to clarify: I like youtube videos because they are to the point. I find streaming boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemporarySolutn Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 when 1 hour ago, GLERMZ said: Do you know how many people watched someone for drops, enjoyed the next day came not for drops but because they enjoyed watching someone content and they find someone even better for them? That will still happen. but only to the big streamers who actually get verified for it, kinda just **** over the little streamers because who wants to watch a small steaming nobody when you can watch a DST hotshot and get free skins? 59 minutes ago, GLERMZ said: What he did was breaking ToS rules to make a "living". Unless you ok with people going agaisnt the rules to make a living, you shouldn't support people who do it. he dont be hurting anybody tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLERMZ Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 27 minutes ago, HowlVoid said: I never said that what he did was right. He was just convenient to watch and wandered what was going to happen to him. As for supporting him, I work late into the night usually get home at 7:30pm. No one was on during that time in the old system. And I don't doubt them. You have to understand this affects people like me who work long days and and on some weekends. I missed the salt shaker because I was working at the time and didn't know to check that week. I never argued this point. Did you read what I wrote? Im very happy that klei is supporting content creators. I think you took what I said personally because I said streaming is boring to me. Now you are attacking me... Listen, I love content creators. I am personally sub'ed to both you and jazzy to learn new strategies. I am not conceited enough to think I know everything and am the best. I know your a good person so I do apologize if I insulted you. Now, what I said was straight forward and blunt because, again, it affects me greatly and I depended on that russian guy's channel. The last line might of been what you call "sassy", but never did I mean to attack you or Jazzy. Forgot to clarify: I like youtube videos because they are to the point. I find streaming boring. Didnt mean as an attack. Perfectly fine that people dont like watching content creators. I ment those who might in contrast with you. Sorry for the miss understanding. 26 minutes ago, TemporarySolutn said: when but only to the big streamers who actually get verified for it, kinda just **** over the little streamers because who wants to watch a small steaming nobody when you can watch a DST hotshot and get free skins? he dont be hurting anybody tho Maybe you know who you are defending maybe you dont. Either way you actually defending someone who breaks the rules and you are okay with it. Would love to know how you would handle someone stepping over you and others by doing the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echsrick Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 wait the link is called "almost there" could that mean something bigger is goin to happen? and its not just for "twitch is back soon"? just think about it always for those secrets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pe Dabliu Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 I guess no salt shaker returning this year then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike23Ua Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Dr.Medic said: wait the link is called "almost there" could that mean something bigger is goin to happen? and its not just for "twitch is back soon"? just think about it always for those secrets Finally. As your aware the next beta phase should be starting soon- it’s probably going to pick up where forgotten knowledges left off. it’s a hint to the next big update in April (probably) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck986 Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Finally, mocbka34 is no more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleimain Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Dear Joew, Could you please add the expected salt box to the reward，ples，really love it !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gods fiddler Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 finally a decent amount of points,but i need more spools!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misuto Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 The new system is happening whether we like it or not, but I'd still like to voice that I don't like the change (where Klei has to hand pick who does and doesn't have drops) and how it will negatively impact the category on Twitch. First, there are many people who play DST who have no interest in watching DST or live streams in general. These people 100% will continue to just open the first stream and idle with the tab muted and ad blocker enabled. The notion that a rule breaking channel was actively hurting streamers by "stealing potential viewers" is pure and unadulterated hubris. This may artificially inflate the view count and ego of a few streamers who were already number 1 on the category, but it's just that; artificial. Thus, this change does not actually impact established streamers as there was never a loss of potential viewership. Now as for how this change will hurt the category: By creating an application process you are creating two more steps that a streamer has to go through to enable drops; 1 is to find and fill out the form and 2 is to wait for approval. Let's go through both of these and how they are bad for the health of the category. First, by creating the extra step of needing to apply, this introduces a fair few problems by itself. People need to find the place to apply. People who are new to the game and have never been to the forums may have no idea what to do. If there is a quick link to apply on twitch the process of having to apply and having no history of streaming DS/T may discourage many from even hitting submit in the first place. Next, how many languages are you going to advertise this change in? How many languages will you have the application form available in? How much harder will this be for non-English streamers to find or even do? Furthermore, by having Klei hand-picking through these applications, there will be a delay on getting approved. How long will it take small streamers to get approved? The uncertainty of how long the process will take, especially for smaller streamers who are new to the category, is likely going to turn people off from applying at all. Finally, the fact that it is a lottery, being forced to apply and then just hope that your accepted is likely going to turn off even more people: "Well I have to first stream the game with no drops thus severely limiting my audience and preventing any chance of getting raided. Then after doing that for a while I need to fill out a form (possibly in a foreign language). Then I just have to hope that I get picked so that finally I can have a chance of finding an audience." At that point, before most people have even filled out an application, they'll just be looking for a different game to stream. This removes streamers and their smaller audiences from the pool of potential actual DST viewers and moves them to other categories which further lowers DSTs potential to be found on Twitch since categories are ranked by number of viewers. Alternatively: If you actually wanted to help the category, a better solution would be to have alternative ways for DST players to obtain drops without being forced to "watch" a service that they have no interest in as this would remove the artificially higher viewer count that accompanies a new drop release. This would also discourage said rule breakers as the people who do choose to get their drops from twitch would actually be watching, thus be aware of the content that they clicked on and would encourage them to actively seek out creators that they enjoy. This is at least one other solution which would naturally have fixed the current problems in streaming DST on twitch without creating new ones that severely limit the potential of new and small streamers to approach the category. And yet another change that has been mentioned on the forums before would be the merger of the DST and DS category. We are essentially splitting our viewership across 2 different games and Twitch has a good system to filter by game mode within a category. For example, Hearthstone doesn't have a different category for it's radically different game "battlegrounds." It exists in the same category under Hearthstone which keeps all the franchise's viewers in a single place. This would pool all DS/T viewers together to help the category more easily be found by people browsing Twitch. I doubt any of that will help or bring about change as things have already been decided without Klei addressing the community or asking for input on this decision, but I just needed to get that out there. Hopefully this helps others who feel the same way feel encouraged to express their opinion too even if it isn't just stunning praise and agreement with Klei's choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koreamm Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 I'm concerned that the new drops system may limit viewers' choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Cups Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Huh. Just seems like a way to cause pointless drama to me. Changing the system isn't going to "fix" anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhovious Aran Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 I am grateful that the abuse in the category is finally adressed. Thank you for that Klei. And I very much appreciate you keeping us informed ahead of time. Nevertheless I have mixed feelings. I do disagree with the statement of some people here that no one ever watches smaller streamers. My community literally grew out of nowhere with 0 followers in May last year into the loveable community I have today. Drops were active at the time and big streamers were also around at the time. I am grateful for the opportunities the drops have meant for me in the past, I would not be in the place I am in now without them. You get a lot of traffic you would never get otherwise and even though getting the drops is the initial intend for many of those viewers, a lot actually end up sticking around because they like the community. Seeing all the very positive reactions from long term streamers is encouraging. However, I don't seem to see the bigger picture for now. Not getting selected could be quite discouraging. I do believe it will be very hard for newer streamers to get into it, if they have to prove themselves in a surrounding that they cannot compete with because they can't provide drops to their viewers. It could lead to a lot of people having unhealthy self doubts. Twitch itself already provides plenty of these given how competitive the plattform is, and how much you have to fight an uphill battle all the time. This system feels like another additional layer that makes people worry even more. (Will I be selected? Will I not? What do I do if I don't get selected? Is there something wrong with me because I didn't get selected? Is my own community going to leave me because they can't get drops now in my channel even though they could before?) To be perfectly honest, I will probably be a bit worried all week until I know if I am in or not, and if I am out it will probably negatively shake up my life quite a bit. I know I am not entitled to drops and I never took them for granted, but when opportunities suddenly get taken away from you that can indeed shake up one's life. I just have so much passion and love for this game, and I finally found something in life that feels right to me and place to call home. I don't understand the goal behind the rotation as of now. Apart from the one who abused the system for his own personal gain - we all coexisted well, and most of us streamers are friends even, so I don't see why that needs to be moderated to that degree. I just hope the selection will be fair with everyone getting an equal piece of the pie. I have concerns that people who do get selected might stream for unhealthy periods of time at a time because they will want to make the best use of the time they get alloted to them, before the drops get turned off from their stream again. An additional question I have seen pop up a couple times now is: Will the enabled drops transfer over to the streamer you raid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Safety Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 I think you guys are blowing this change out of proportion. There was clearly some abuse with the old system, and this new system (to my understanding) will give Klei the power to rectify abuse and not have to rely so heavily on twitch to do something about it. I honestly don't think they are going to be picky about who can have drops enabled, so long as you don't abuse it. I didn't see the appeal of watching streams when the drop system first started. I preferred YouTube and only used twitch because of the rewards. I would idle in streams, which is bound to happen, but then I got a gift sub to the creator I was watching, who was Glermz. From there I figured that someone spent money and I would hang out in the stream a bit and found it really enjoyable. From there I started browsing other streams and found out that I really enjoyed being part of these little twitch communities. I've even gifted a few subs on some other channels I enjoy in order to get someone who might have been in the same position as me more involved. That is what the twitch drop program was about, not so someone can make a living by breaking ToS. I understand that it was convenient, but this program was to get people more involved with the community. It's entirely possible that there will be many people won't get involved anyway, which is okay. However now they at least have a shot at sharing my experience, because they won't be defaulting to watching whatever-his-name-was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remos_Alex Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 nice!!! This is news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLERMZ Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 5 hours ago, Misuto said: The notion that a rule breaking channel was actively hurting streamers by "stealing potential viewers" is pure and unadulterated hubris. This may artificially inflate the view count and ego of a few streamers who were already number 1 on the category, but it's just that; If you don't know all the facts about said person you shouldn't try to throw shade like this, it actually ruins a bit of the prespective you were trying to pass with your argument here which as always was farly written, respectful and informative in your point of view. He indeed hurt a lot of people, smaller streamers and specially the russian community. the Big streamers and their Ego were still growing with the previousd drop system, so if anything things will not change in that regard. Just shows that maybe you really didnt knew the depth of what was going on. ToS rule break should be punished regardless. Also more like him were starting to appear ,a bit lowkey, but were starting, because the word of the category being unpunishable was spreading around. 5 hours ago, Misuto said: First, by creating the extra step of needing to apply, this introduces a fair few problems by itself. People need to find the place to apply. People who are new to the game and have never been to the forums may have no idea what to do. If there is a quick link to apply on twitch the process of having to apply and having no history of streaming DS/T may discourage many from even hitting submit in the first place. Anyone who wants to become a content creator, might not know everything the moment they start but they will pick up on the opportunities so i dont see an issue here. Also its just very simple the ask around in the platform and i'm sure any regular in the category will have the answer for it. Thats how i did when i wanted to figure out the Sea of Thieves drop system. 5 hours ago, Misuto said: Next, how many languages are you going to advertise this change in? How many languages will you have the application form available in? How much harder will this be for non-English streamers to find or even do? Furthermore, by having Klei hand-picking through these applications, there will be a delay on getting approved. How long will it take small streamers to get approved? The uncertainty of how long the process will take, especially for smaller streamers who are new to the category, is likely going to turn people off from applying at all. Do you know how many smaller streamers didn't even had their drops actives ? specially those who you say were new to the category? I know because i raided a bunch who didn't had drops They still were having fun playing the game and streaming for a lot more. SOme instantly got affiliate straight after. Some activated their drops for the next day, some didn't. The majority don't stream DST anymore. Why does it have to be harder for non-English streamers? I think it's pretty easy to see, if you actually have been paying attention to the category to see those who stream a lot of DST drops or not drops, that are non-english natives. Heck the two biggest streamers right now are actually Brazilian If i'm able to communicate with people who i don't speak their language and they don't talk english very well, i do think that it's not going to be a barrier for such an application. 5 hours ago, Misuto said: Finally, the fact that it is a lottery, being forced to apply and then just hope that your accepted is likely going to turn off even more people: "Well I have to first stream the game with no drops thus severely limiting my audience and preventing any chance of getting raided. Then after doing that for a while I need to fill out a form (possibly in a foreign language). Then I just have to hope that I get picked so that finally I can have a chance of finding an audience." At that point, before most people have even filled out an application, they'll just be looking for a different game to stream. This removes streamers and their smaller audiences from the pool of potential actual DST viewers and moves them to other categories which further lowers DSTs potential to be found on Twitch since categories are ranked by number of viewers. It worked for other categories idk why it can't work for DST. So you saying in a platform were you have to fight and prove certain metrics to get affiliate and then partner, it's wrong to have a few metrics that prove you care about the game and communitty ? Should be Drops First -> Game after? Well guess we just disagree in this regard Also DST even with drops never reached enough viewers to actually be in the pool of randoms finding it, that will only happen if big streamers would play the game. If someone is scrolling to a 7k category, they are scrolling to a 1k category. 5 hours ago, Misuto said: If you actually wanted to help the category, a better solution would be to have alternative ways for DST players to obtain drops without being forced to "watch" a service that they have no interest in as this would remove the artificially higher viewer count that accompanies a new drop release. This would also discourage said rule breakers as the people who do choose to get their drops from twitch would actually be watching, thus be aware of the content that they clicked on and would encourage them to actively seek out creators that they enjoy. This is at least one other solution which would naturally have fixed the current problems in streaming DST on twitch without creating new ones that severely limit the potential of new and small streamers to approach the category. Well this is really just a difference of opinion here, but i disagree that limits, if anything he should ignite something to fight for those who will actually enjoy streaming and playing the game. Already gave the example in this post, i'm loving Sea of Thieves and i will still streaming it, i will not have the drops, heck i will barely have a community for it since it's such a different game from what i normally stream, so i will be at the bottom, without drops and i will still fight to get into their Partner program, as many other small creators did, that grew without drops, that got into their program, that got partner with twitch after and some even exploded after. I much rather have a system that helps those who really care every day about the game a community, who actually pass the torch to someone when they disconnect than what was happenning. 5 hours ago, Misuto said: And yet another change that has been mentioned on the forums before would be the merger of the DST and DS category. We are essentially splitting our viewership across 2 different games and Twitch has a good system to filter by game mode within a category. For example, Hearthstone doesn't have a different category for it's radically different game "battlegrounds." It exists in the same category under Hearthstone which keeps all the franchise's viewers in a single place. This would pool all DS/T viewers together to help the category more easily be found by people browsing Twitch. I do agree, i think they would be amazing, but i can't remember exacly why, but Klei stated on the forums that it wasn't not possible? 5 hours ago, Misuto said: I doubt any of that will help or bring about change as things have already been decided without Klei addressing the community or asking for input on this decision, but I just needed to get that out there. Hopefully this helps others who feel the same way feel encouraged to express their opinion too even if it isn't just stunning praise and agreement with Klei's choices. Again, we know of few streamers already, small streamers who you trying to defend here, who already excited to come back to DST. Non-english streamers who streamed for ages and got hurt in many ways for what was going on. This system will prevent that to ever happen. On a side note, yes the person who sits on the #1 will always have his viewership inflated, in any case on twitch, drops or no drops, thats twitch, but atleast now that #1 will actually rotate everyday, because everyone here sleeps, everyone has different timezones and schedules. That a alone is a big difference, a lot more people will be abble to get that spotlight which they didn't before. Best Regards 2 hours ago, Rhovious Aran said: Not getting selected could be quite discouraging. I do believe it will be very hard for newer streamers to get into it, if they have to prove themselves in a surrounding that they cannot compete with because they can't provide drops to their viewers. It could lead to a lot of people having unhealthy self doubts. Twitch itself already provides plenty of these given how competitive the plattform is, and how much you have to fight an uphill battle all the time. This system feels like another additional layer that makes people worry even more. (Will I be selected? Will I not? What do I do if I don't get selected? Is there something wrong with me because I didn't get selected? Is my own community going to leave me because they can't get drops now in my channel even though they could before?) To be perfectly honest, I will probably be a bit worried all week until I know if I am in or not, and if I am out it will probably negatively shake up my life quite a bit. I know I am not entitled to drops and I never took them for granted, but when opportunities suddenly get taken away from you that can indeed shake up one's life. I just have so much passion and love for this game, and I finally found something in life that feels right to me and place to call home. Pretty sure people like that stream DST almost everyday, Drops or not Drops, and have been for a long time will get picked. Would be silly if not. I think the system just makes sure you care first about the game and your community and second about the drops which i agree with and most importantly prevents what was going on. 2 hours ago, Rhovious Aran said: I don't understand the goal behind the rotation as of now. Apart from the one who abused the system for his own personal gain - we all coexisted well, and most of us streamers are friends even, so I don't see why that needs to be moderated to that degree. I just hope the selection will be fair with everyone getting an equal piece of the pie. I have concerns that people who do get selected might stream for unhealthy periods of time at a time because they will want to make the best use of the time they get alloted to them, before the drops get turned off from their stream again. I don't understand about the rotation part either, but maybe is jsut way to prevent any possible abuses. Think the point still is to make sure people who give a lot of content to the category get rewarded by doing so. But we will wait and see. Bottom line i think a lot of people are trying to pass as you will need huge metrics to get into the program, like you needed twitch partner when i 100% doubt that will be the deal at all. You probably will just have to show you care beyond the drops. On a side note, pretty sure you will get Partner on twitch in an instant Rhovious 10 hours ago, Bulbah Bulbah said: If I don't get chosen that's okay! I still love the game and still love this community. Klei, you guy's are doing a fantastic job. <3 This bulbah. You've been doing amazing in the category and that is definitely the good spirit. I hope Klei keeps an eye on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Dan0- Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 So will the twitch drops encore continue where it stopped ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffford W. Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 30 minutes ago, -Dan0- said: So will the twitch drops encore continue where it stopped ? Don't think so since you can get them here now https://accounts.klei.com/account/rewards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Dan0- Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 13 minutes ago, Clifford W. said: Don't think so since you can get them here now https://accounts.klei.com/account/rewards well yeah but there are some skins that aren't there like the salt box one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigfrids hat Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, -Dan0- said: well yeah but there are some skins that aren't there like the salt box one the saltbax was never part of the crystalline set and so isn't going to be in the encore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fimmatek Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, gaymime said: the saltbax was never part of the crystalline set and so isn't going to be in the encore Huh, I too thought that it was a twitch drop as well, but I checked and it's part of the "Fool's Collection". How did we get this skin then? I honestly don't remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArubaroBeefalo Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 So people feels ok with "streamers" not doing a real stream just to take views instead of klei choosing the streamers that respect the rules and cover 24h with many of them? Wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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