Useless Jet Suits!

[Kerrin29]

Jet Suits seem so good, until you realise all the pain they cause you.

The tool tip is useless, it doesn't tell you they emit CO2 gas and don't work underwater. Both are logical, but if the tool tip doesn't say, how am I meant to know that!
I have wasted many hours trying to figure out why my vacuum suddenly fills with CO2 at the last second.

And also, I still have no idea why my dupes will without any obvious reason, suddenly idle and never move. I can only assume they have run out of fuel, but where can I check that? And why is that a thing if that is it, it means you still need to build ladders everywhere, which makes them useless!

[Nedix]

I tried to use jet suits long time ago and I gave up. I find them massively useless and wasteful in the current meta. Probably and hopefully things will change in the DLC.

[0xFADE]

I avoid jet suits as well.

[SharraShimada]

Not useless, but limited.

They can be used, in space for example the exhaust is irrelevant. And in a lmited area, the lag is minimal.These are highly specialized atmo-suits for highly specialized tasks.

[SamLogan]

To make them useful, avoid the construction of ladders on the surface.

[Nedix]

By the time I get to space all dupes are fully trained in athletics so they are actually faster "on land" (stairs, floors, tubes) than jet suits. If the asteroid was much larger and/or if the cost of jet suits would not have been so high (materials, fuel, exhaust etc.) then I could consider them.... otherwise, no dice for me.

[Gurgel]

9 hours ago, Kerrin29 said:

Jet Suits seem so good, until you realise all the pain they cause you.

Never used them, myself. There is just no reason for them. The worst that can happen is that you have to build a bit of ladder-scaffold, which is easily done. I think they were a "Flying Dupes!" type of idea that never really made much sense.

[Baer]

2 hours ago, SamLogan said:

To make them useful, avoid the construction of ladders on the surface.

Yes, but then you build some and see what happen. biggest problem with Jet suits, there are to slow for everything and cause massive lagspikes. Klei should give them another perk, like another 10% for rocket navigation. or make them important for the rocket to use, instead off the normal suit. 

I need a suit for the rocket and then another suit goes away, because dupes enter my rockets with suits.... and... i have no idea how many suits are lost in my docks. because my bases have several entrance. 

[Machenoid]

Atmospheric Suits are actually made of Dirt with a melting point of 326.9*C, which means they're dangerous to use in environments above that temperature for long enough periods of time. Being made of dirt, they have absolutely terrible conductivity meaning they take longer to change temperature, both toward and away from melt-down. Jet Suits meanwhile are made of Steel with a melting point of 2426.9*C, which means a dupe could stand in magma or similarly hot environments and not melt their suit. (Though once the suit reaches the scalding point the dupe will take damage)

Without testing it, i would guess that you could still use jet suits without fuel, once the initial 25kg of petroleum runs out.

[impyre]

I rarely use atmo suits, and never use jet suits. They were horrific when they were first introduced, so I got in the habit of avoiding them. The pathing made lag unbearable... and as Nedix points out, by the time you can research them and reliably produce/fuel them, dupe athletics makes them really of neglibile value compared to ladder scaffolding. With high build skills and high athletics, scaffoldings are really quick and easy. Though I must admit, I haven't even tested them in ages.

EDIT: also, chained deconstruction mod

[Sasza22]

I like using them in space to avoid building ladders everywhere. Last time i used them they created a lot of lag though so i restricted access to them once construction was done. I think of them as a way to avoid extra clicking. Like if i want to empty a large space next to my base or for space construction. More like an QoL feature. I can deal with the fumes later or even feed some slicksters with them. Just no point of using them inside the base.

[beowulf2010]

2 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

I like using them in space to avoid building ladders everywhere. Last time i used them they created a lot of lag though so i restricted access to them once construction was done.

Yeah. I'm going to start using jet suits in my rocket silos this map just to avoid the whole ladder column thing when (re) building rockets. 

[TheMule]

8 hours ago, beowulf2010 said:

Yeah. I'm going to start using jet suits in my rocket silos this map just to avoid the whole ladder column thing when (re) building rockets. 

That's basicly it. You can build super compact silo with rockets packed together and no scaffolding, but IIRC you still need gantries for some tasks. 

[psusi]

On 7/26/2020 at 6:16 AM, TheMule said:

That's basicly it. You can build super compact silo with rockets packed together and no scaffolding, but IIRC you still need gantries for some tasks. 

I've never built a gantry.  Jet suits are a great way to board rockets and not bother with a bunker door roof over them either.  The one annoying thing is that the rocket still has to have a regular atmo suit loaded into it before it can take off, and sometimes the stupid dupes really don't want to deliver one.

[suicide commando]

I have found only one use for them, which is to build the bunker tiles and doors, solar panels and their infrastructure. Once this is done, they become useless. 

[Kerrin29]

No one really defending them I see. A few, people using them for specific usages.

Guess I'll need to move away from using them. I've lost count to the number of dupes that have died due to getting stuck somewhere with no way out, and not enough time to build a way out even if I notice the moment they run out of fuel (which I still can only deduce from the fact they either idle, or sleep)

[oosyrag]

Rockets are 5 tiles wide, jet suits are great for reaching the center without needing gantries, if for some reason you have wires or piping running across them.

[TheMule]

8 hours ago, psusi said:

I've never built a gantry.  Jet suits are a great way to board rockets and not bother with a bunker door roof over them either.  The one annoying thing is that the rocket still has to have a regular atmo suit loaded into it before it can take off, and sometimes the stupid dupes really don't want to deliver one.

I'm quite sure in the past they had problems in refueling oxylite w/o a gantry. But well, they have problems with it anyway I guess.

[Nebbie]

Until relatively recently, I didn't even bother much with putting dupes in atmo suits, even for surface operations. Extra infrastructure on the edges of things that slows dupes down, limits how many can be there, and can get them stuck is really not great, and it's pretty easy to just pipe in oxygen by the time these things are needed.

On 7/25/2020 at 4:27 PM, Machenoid said:

Atmospheric Suits are actually made of Dirt with a melting point of 326.9*C, which means they're dangerous to use in environments above that temperature for long enough periods of time. Being made of dirt, they have absolutely terrible conductivity meaning they take longer to change temperature, both toward and away from melt-down. Jet Suits meanwhile are made of Steel with a melting point of 2426.9*C, which means a dupe could stand in magma or similarly hot environments and not melt their suit. (Though once the suit reaches the scalding point the dupe will take damage)

Without testing it, i would guess that you could still use jet suits without fuel, once the initial 25kg of petroleum runs out.

Sure, if your dupes spend half the day walking in magma, and store their suits in a vacuum area, there will be problems with suits turning to sand, but this is an incredibly unusual case. Most of the time, suits are stored somewhere where they can lose heat well enough, and magma isn't an issue because dirt is actually ridiculously good at resisting temperature changes (SHC of about 1.5 is no joke). The limiting factor will tend to be how fast dupes reach scalding temperatures, giving atmo suits a massive upper hand as dupes can pretty much treat magma as bath water. Really, I think atmo suits being made of dirt is too good considering how well dupes can move in them.

As to jet suits, I hate the idea of leaving random bits of gas everywhere. I once had a dupe fart the exact moment he completed the last tile of a turbine's steam room, getting it only the steam room, and ever since I've been very wary of that sort of thing (and I no longer hire flatulent dupes). I also don't in general like oil infrastructure, because of how hot and messy it gets, and so I'd prefer to not be forced to make it early.

[Sasza22]

23 hours ago, Kerrin29 said:

No one really defending them I see. A few, people using them for specific usages.

That`s the point of them. Specific use. Like everything in the game. I use them just as much as atmo suits. Each has it`s place. I guess you can build a base that keeps dupes in atmo suits 90% of the time but you might as well do the same with jest suits and just seal off the base and dig out everything around leaving a single ladder for dupes that run out of fuel. Actually i need to try that.

[Baer]

Dupes would alway prefer the fastest route. Also why flying, when you can just climb a ladder? everything is way faster than flying. especially dupes with higher athletics. 

[degr]

I build them once, and found it extremely nice. But unfortunately, I feel they are usefull only for small colonies, with amount of dupes < 30. Did not use them because they take too much space (2 cells instead of 1) for atmo suits. 

[melquiades]

They are a really good idea for space silos, but with the MASSIVE lag they introduced to my game when i tested them i will never, ever touch them again.

Unless maybe, the next Ryzen 4900x can handle them.

[nyonyonyo]

On 7/28/2020 at 4:11 AM, Kerrin29 said:

No one really defending them I see

Then let me defend them then. 

It allows for a smaller rocket footprint (I believe 7 wide, including the gantry for exiting the capsule) since I do not have to build ladders to reach the tops of my rockets. Which means I can add in an extra solar panel.

It allows me to easily construct/deconstruct my rockets without having to construct/deconstruct oodles of ladders.

It allows me to repair things easily that my hydrogen rockets melt (aka ladders) and the silo cooling loops that are prone to meltdowns without having to keep on checking on whether I have to rebuild things.

It allows me to repair those bunker doors when I accidentally forget to open them prior to landing. From the inside of the silo.

And, it allows me to construct drywalls to be able to pressurize the silo and allow cooling/steam recondensation from rocket exhausts.

Mind you, it took me a while to form a system where the rocketeers remain inside the silo and not escape. 

No one is forcing people to use rocket suits. It is up to you how you want to play the game. 

[Gurgel]

7 hours ago, nyonyonyo said:

Then let me defend them then. 

It allows for a smaller rocket footprint (I believe 7 wide, including the gantry for exiting the capsule) since I do not have to build ladders to reach the tops of my rockets. Which means I can add in an extra solar panel.

It allows me to easily construct/deconstruct my rockets without having to construct/deconstruct oodles of ladders.

It allows me to repair things easily that my hydrogen rockets melt (aka ladders) and the silo cooling loops that are prone to meltdowns without having to keep on checking on whether I have to rebuild things.

It allows me to repair those bunker doors when I accidentally forget to open them prior to landing. From the inside of the silo.

And, it allows me to construct drywalls to be able to pressurize the silo and allow cooling/steam recondensation from rocket exhausts.

Mind you, it took me a while to form a system where the rocketeers remain inside the silo and not escape. 

No one is forcing people to use rocket suits. It is up to you how you want to play the game. 

I see no really convincing arguments there, except maybe the first one if you are really pressed for space. The rest seems to just be needed because of your silo design. Which is fine, but it does not make Jet Suits useful for other rocket silo designs.