TheMule

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  1. I'm reporting this because it's weird. Different game, same crash at around cycle 10. Same conditions. Player.log
  2. Other 50 cycles in, almost no problem. I've got strange flickering bright color in the oil biome (something other users reported on linux pre-DLC), a restart cured it. It seems stable.
  3. Client crashed. No strange behaviour before the crash. Log file and last save file attached. System specs: System: Kernel: 5.9.10-200.fc33.x86_64 x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 2.35-14.fc33) Desktop: GNOME 3.38.1 Distro: Fedora release 33 (Thirty Three) Machine: Type: Desktop Mobo: ASUSTeK model: M5A99X EVO R2.0 v: Rev 1.xx serial: <filter> UEFI: American Megatrends v: 2201 date: 11/25/2013 CPU: Info: 6-Core model: AMD FX-6350 bits: 64 type: MCP arch: Bulldozer L2 cache: 2048 KiB flags: avx lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm bogomips: 50717 Speed: 1517 MHz min/max: 1400/3900 MHz boost: enabled Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1517 2: 1518 3: 2449 4: 2527 5: 1517 6: 1517 Graphics: Device-1: NVIDIA GM107 [GeForce GTX 750 Ti] driver: nvidia v: 455.45.01 bus ID: 01:00.0 Display: x11 server: Fedora Project X.org 1.20.9 driver: nvidia unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,nouveau,vesa resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz OpenGL: renderer: GeForce GTX 750 Ti/PCIe/SSE2 v: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 455.45.01 direct render: Yes Audio: Device-1: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] SBx00 Azalia vendor: ASUSTeK driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:14.2 Device-2: NVIDIA GM107 High Definition Audio [GeForce 940MX] driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 01:00.1 Device-3: Plantronics Plantronics .Audio 628 USB type: USB driver: plantronics,snd-usb-audio,usbhid bus ID: 10-2:2 Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.9.10-200.fc33.x86_64 Network: Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet vendor: ASUSTeK P8 series driver: r8169 v: kernel port: d000 bus ID: 02:00.0 IF: enp2s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> IF-ID-1: virbr0 state: down mac: <filter> IF-ID-2: virbr0-nic state: down mac: <filter> Drives: Local Storage: total: 15.01 TiB used: 1.08 TiB (7.2%) ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: SanDisk model: SDSSDH3500G size: 465.76 GiB ID-2: /dev/sdb vendor: Toshiba model: MG05ACA800E size: 7.28 TiB ID-3: /dev/sdc vendor: Toshiba model: MG05ACA800E size: 7.28 TiB RAID: Device-1: md125 type: mdraid status: active Components: online: sdc4~c0 sdb4~c1 Info: raid: mirror blocks: 976354304 report: 2/2 UU chunk size: N/A Device-2: md126 type: mdraid status: active Components: online: sdc9~c2 sdb9~c0 Info: raid: mirror blocks: 1048512 report: 2/2 UU chunk size: N/A Device-3: md127 type: mdraid status: active Components: online: sdc3~c0 sdb3~c1 Info: raid: mirror blocks: 976354304 report: 2/2 UU chunk size: N/A Partition: ID-1: / size: 931.25 GiB used: 46.22 GiB (5.0%) fs: btrfs dev: /dev/sdc2 ID-2: /boot size: 991.8 MiB used: 249.9 MiB (25.2%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/md126 ID-3: /home size: 931.25 GiB used: 46.22 GiB (5.0%) fs: btrfs dev: /dev/sdc2 Swap: ID-1: swap-1 type: zram size: 4.00 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) dev: /dev/zram0 Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 27.9 C mobo: N/A gpu: nvidia temp: 38 C Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A gpu: nvidia fan: 31% Info: Processes: 371 Uptime: 7h 16m Memory: 23.38 GiB used: 4.70 GiB (20.1%) Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 10.2.1 Packages: 2227 Shell: Bash v: 5.0.17 inxi: 3.1.08 $ rpm -q steam lutris steam-1.0.0.66-3.fc33.i686 lutris-0.5.7.1-3.fc33.x86_64 I tried Linux only because I was using it when I received the notification about the development build being available. Update: I've reached cycle 33 w no further crushes. Player.log Benedict's Penguins Cycle 6.sav
  4. Streaming? On a remote GPU? Edit: 20 years ago nobody could think of something like GeForce NOW. At least not available to the public at commodity price. Or maybe 2-3 years from now. Maybe I'm biased, I was using diskless workstations back in the '90s when the bandwidth was less than 10Mbit/s for a LAN. I see not big technical impediments to have large portions of your disk synced on cloud even today, other than poor integration with the OS GUI. And that can be fixed. Enterprises are moving to clouds exactly for better reliability. At least, on paper. I'm not saying I believe that, I'm saying that part of my job, today, is to help them do that, on their request. Many companies consider private datacenters a thing of the past, and if they're going to have one (usually for legal reasons) they want to hear the words hybrid cloud. Cloud computing not only is a thing of today, it's the thing. It's just not end user commodity, yet.
  5. It really depends. 20 years ago the idea that high-end graphics belonged to a remote computing platform more that your local GPU sounded absurd. Now it makes sense to play online. It took way less that 20 years to go from sci-fi to reality. Could services are a reality today, at least for enterprises. It's not not something that is 100% commodity. That's what One Drive was supposed to be. Not necessarily. All it takes is a better integration at OS level. It happened the same with firewalls. Not long ago it was something for tech-savy guys only, today the OS (at least on Windows, and to some extents on Linux) provides an API for applications to make authorization requests. I can imagine similar requests can be made by applications to access could volumes, possibly restricted to a specific path/directory. If done properly, the cloud service would generate an API key of sort, which can even saved in the online profile of the game and later used in other PC or platforms, even remote ones. I'll be a standard OS feature, and I don't think we need to wait 30 years.
  6. Two things that can be done externally. Cloud saves do not belong to Steam either. In the future more and more people get used to having more than one computer and enjoy that idea of backups and using cloud services becomes the standard. There will be a call for games and Steam to "integrate" with these platforms, meaning let them do their job. And course this is my opinion, I guess time will tell.
  7. Unfortunately, you have to strike a balance. I get what you're saying. Totally. Unfortunately people don't have a collective memory, and mistakes are made over and over. Cloud saves don't belong to games, much like audio comms didn't. Remember when every multiuser game was adding its own version of voice comms, in game? Then teamspeak and discord happened, and modern games don't have that feature anymore (or at least nobody cares about it). Bloating games with unrequired features is bound to happen again and again. If a huge number of people demand for a feature to be added to a game, where it does not belong, what should a game developer such as Klei do? Live with the fact that every review out there states as #1 fact that ONI is missing cloud saves? Industry is market driven, you can't simply ignore a demand for something, even if - from a technical point of view - it's a bad idea. Klei is a company, they exist to make money, not to make a point about what belongs to a game and what doesn't.
  8. If I do bug hunting for 8+ hours, my brain hurts. If I do that all the week, Friday night it's zombie night, only that I'm the zombie.
  9. Let me add to that. People seem not to understand how it works. Programs don't fall on programmer's lap from the sky. It's hard work. It's inevitable that the sooner something is released, the lower the quality. More bugs, lower performance, etc. Putting pressure on the devs is never a good idea. early, solid, complete: choose two.
  10. That's possibly due to the str attribute, maybe the minimum amount they can mop in one tick is 300kg. Are those dups high level ones or are they freshly spawned?
  11. As I wrote, nothing is set in stone. But I always draw a line between creative uses of game mechanics (which is what the game is all about) and bug using. And I was replying to a specific post: Liquid locks that aren't viscogel, such as the T shape liquid lock, or the vertical multi liquid-liquid lock. Diagonal building Unpowered incubator lullabying Infinite liquid storage - I'm sure you got plans for this one Diagonally teleporting magma debris to power the steam turbine. All this is working as intented. The only gray area here is the teleporting. Liquid locks work thanks to the one element per tile rule. Explicitly coded, 100% working as intended. Diagonal building confirmed as intended mechanics by the diagonal reach of sweepers, or shiftplates. Lullaby status is a buff granted to the egg. Like any other buff/debuff, it lasts after the conditions that caused it ceased. Devs could have coded it differently. Infinite storage, already discussed. High pressure pockets are a natural occurrence, we (the players) just found ways (that uses the one element per tile rule maybe) to recreate those (and push to the extreme). Devs have put in the game both pressure damage mechanisms and ways to overcome it (triple walls, airflow tiles). Again, there's a parameter somewhere in the code that is set for airflow tiles to infinite pressure resistance, otherwise they would be just tiles. Teleporting, already discussed too: it's inconsistent with other mechanims (mass deletion by doors, building tiles). So it might be a bug, or something unintended. Why doesn't water teleport? Or oxygen? That's the only gray area.
  12. I'll add to that, it's a single player game. I understand there's a point in not cheating in multiplayer games, and the community decides what's fair, what's cheap, what's cheating. You're entering sport territory and sportmanship is a thing. Not in ONI, tho. But there's something else that gets on my nerve. I'm a programmer. I know what it takes to write code, to implement behaviours. Yeah, sometimes there are unexpected things and side effects. But usually, if something happens, is because a programmer took time to implement it. Calling established mechanics "exploits" is insulting to programmers (and game designers) at Klei. It implies them being incompent amateurs who write code w/o knowing what it would do. Labelling 75% of the game as "unintended behavior" means saying people at Klei don't even know how to make their programs work the way they intended to. It find this profoundly insulting. Does this mean ONI is a totally bug free program? That designers did a perfect job and nothing can be improved? Does this mean they're not going to change their mind over something in the game, ever? Hell no. What's intended today, may be changed tomorrow. Maybe one day they they'll decide to implement a different "pressure" mechanism, and liquid locks for high pressure deltas will fail. But that doesn't mean that pressure today doesn't work the way it works because people choose to have it work that way, and not because they're incompetent devs who don't know any better.
  13. Definitely not: here's a tile with 1020.1 kg. I don't know where you got the idea that a tile of water is limited to 1000 kg. It's not, it's happening in every game actually, since cycle 1. Start a new map as see for yourself, any pocket of water is going to have tiles above 1000 kg at the bottom. It's the way developers represent "pressure". Players found ways to use it to their advantage but it's totally intended game mechanics: someone had to actually write code to allow for that. As for enclosed pockets in which the top tiles are above their overflow size (and can't overflow because, well, they're enclosed), many maps have pockets of high pressure liquids. It's very common in the oil biome, if yoy're not carefull you pop a pocket that floods several tiles up with oil. It's a common and natural occurrence in the game. It's not a glitch. Players just found ways to artificially create those and pushed it to the extreme. But high pressure liquid pockets are definitely something that is in the game because the devs put them in. The developers themselves featured a liquid lock in their video. Why showcasing something that players aren't supposed to use?