Walter: 8 Marbles to kill a Deerclops

[hyiltiz]

3 minutes ago, DirtWolf said:

I mean... if you're using Lureplants for FW, you're already cheesing and avoiding 90% of the prep it normally takes. What's the difference?

Well, even with Lureplants, you'd still need a Houndius Shootius, which is a late game item. Marble is not.

[Well-met]

Just now, hyiltiz said:

Well, even with Lureplants, you'd still need a Houndius Shootius, which is a late game item. Marble is not.

and wicker can do a azure feather farm and craft 100 darts and use 2 lure plants and do the exact same thing.

the culprit is still the lure plants.

[Pikapikap]

Walter's slingshot attacks the enemy's forward shake a bit long,If nerf, slingshot is nothing.of course, I don’t want to see the attack speed of the slingshot become the same as the Gatling gun. hope that the subsequent hotfix can improve these problems

[hyiltiz]

3 minutes ago, Well-met said:

and wicker can do a azure feather farm and craft 100 darts and use 2 lure plants and do the exact same thing.

the culprit is still the lure plants.

Sure. Let's compare Wicker's Blow Dart farm with Walters. Blow Darts take a lot of resources, and you wouldn't get 500 Hound Tooth by Day 100. You can get 1000 Marbles by Day 100 without much preparation or know-how. 

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

4 minutes ago, Well-met said:

and wicker can do a azure feather farm and craft 100 darts and use 2 lure plants and do the exact same thing.

the culprit is still the lure plants.

+ I think attack animation of darts is way quicker. It's not like thay added super new mechanic. Ranged attacks exist.

2 minutes ago, hyiltiz said:

Sure. Let's compare Wicker's Blow Dart farm with Walters. Blow Darts take a lot of resources, and you wouldn't get 500 Hound Tooth by Day 100. You can get 1000 Marbles by Day 1000 without much preparation or know-how. 

Yeah, it's true. He has much easier time with getting resources. Though 500 tooth by day 100 doesn't seem that hard. They spawn in DF desert.

[Well-met]

1 minute ago, hyiltiz said:

Sure. Let's compare Wicker's Blow Dart farm with Walters. Blow Darts take a lot of resources, and you wouldn't get 500 Hound Tooth by Day 100. You can get 1000 Marbles by Day 100 without much preparation or know-how. 

I think you miss the point completely.

the amount of "effort" does not matter when you exploit bosses.

[Mike23Ua]

Who all has this game on both PC and Console? Is it any easier to attack stuff on Console then it is for the PC version? On Xbox all I do is tap X and he Auto targets the nearest thing to him (bad if your aiming for butterflies when Beefalo walk in front of you but other than that.. it’s relatively simple) Luckily I did not actual hit said Beefalo otherwise the results of that would be all over YouTube at the moment labeled Top 5 Walter Fails.

[hyiltiz]

It matters; it is not an exploit if it is allowed in the game. If it doesn't matter to you, just spawn in whatevs...

Clarification: I'd say exploit means cheat, like installing a server mod, or spawning in stuff. Cheese is stuff allowed in game due to various game mechanics interacting in complex ways.

[DirtWolf]

6 minutes ago, hyiltiz said:

Well, even with Lureplants, you'd still need a Houndius Shootius, which is a late game item. Marble is not.

Are we pretending this "late game item" is difficult to get? You kill the easiest boss in the game and then get the guardian stuck on a pillar to kill him too (which is so easy I've done it by accident a dozen times). Besides, killing guardian is a pre-requisite to approaching FW in the first place. Calling Walter's slow and short range little slingshot some OP boss killer just seems ridiculous when Winona's catapults exist, along with a multitude of better options. 

[Frashaw27]

I really feel like this is a non issue. Sure, marble is more easily farmable then other projectiles types, but it is still a very slow process to gather up the required materials to finish off a beast. Sure, it only takes 8 marble to kill Deerclops, but that still is a lot when starting out a world, where you would most likely use this strat. It also isn't really used anywhere else important. You might be able to snipe cookie cutters, might make ancient guardian even more of a joke, can allow you to aggro or finish off mobs that run away, but those things aren't really broken as any ranged type weapon. I underatand that you think that the marbles are going to be way too op or even godly, but they aren't. Sure, they do a lot of damage for one marble but you also have to consider aspects like "What mobs can I use these on that won't destroy me if I get hit while aimming?" And how fast you can produce damage make this ammo types just as balenced as the others. The best item to compare it too is the dark sword where that requires uncommen but easily farmable materials to make for a bunch of easy damage, its a very simular compearison that shows that this type of dynamic has been done before and will most likely continue to be done. I understand you want to expose something broken and blatently op on paper, but in practice its a whole lot different. A example is Warly's spices, how on paper they are broken when used right but in practoce you learn how ungodly it is to manage without a wickerbottom to remove any wait time what so ever. Walter is actually very balenced, and with a few tweaks will be perfect, but the sling shot is certinly not the area that needs those tweaks.

[Canis]

43 minutes ago, Xantown7 said:

That's funny to see this topic now, I made a video for that not even 1 hour ago

Felt the need to point this out as you didn't. Unless pellets aren't changed by damage modifiers, the usual fight is slower than what is shown in this video (even if only by 10 seconds or so)

 

[hyiltiz]

It seems like some people think I am against the idea of Walter's ranged weapon. Of course not. I am just against the sheer power of cheap ranged ammo. I'd say a one to three ratio of resource to pellet conversion would still be acceptable and less broke.

 

Gold 1:10: Allows killing one bird to access killing 10 birds; exponential increase by a factor of x10. Wicker's Bird Farm is out of the window...

Marble 1:10: as mentioned above.

A 1:3 conversion ratio is more sensible, and would still make sense considering how easy Marbles can be farmed, and how you can grow farm Gold Pellets by a factor of x3.

[b l a n k]

10 minutes ago, Canis said:

Felt the need to point this out as you didn't. Unless pellets aren't changed by damage modifiers, the usual fight is slower than what is shown in this video (even if only by 10 seconds or so)

 

No, there are no spice effect on the fight, it takes 79 pebbles to kill it as the deerclops has 4000 HP and each pebble deals 51 damages

That's a shame warly's seasoning doesn't affect pebbles' damages but that was expected tbh, since it's a ranged weapon

[Canis]

9 minutes ago, Xantown7 said:

No, there are no spice effect on the fight, it takes 79 pebbles to kill it as the deerclops has 4000 HP and each pebble deals 51 damages

That's a shame warly's seasoning doesn't affect pebbles' damages but that was expected tbh, since it's a ranged weapon

Thank you for clarifying. I was wondering why you didn't mention using them in any way, so I thought you were pulling a sneaky.

[Misa22]

* Laughs in Wheeler *

 

Nah, seriously. He is fine in the pebble aspect, but I am not sure about the rest of perks. 

[Maxil20]

I honestly don't mind it that much. Yes, it looks like 8 marble on pen and paper, but it's also honestly not that good otherwise. There's a lot of handicaps when using the slingshot already:

• You attack far slower with the slingshot then any other weapon. That alone cuts the most reasonable DPS well below half for him, compared to someone else with a tentacle spike
• Even with that, his weapon is one of the only instances in DST where you can't cancel the attacking animation. Every other weapon can be stopped mid swing to back off of a hit you wouldn't avoid otherwise. Walter's slingshot can't do that; from the moment you press F, walter is stuck in place and is completely vulnerable for one second. For most people this isn't a huge issue, but can easily catch you off guard.
• Walter already has a huge advantage when fighting deerclops as other characters without the slingshot already: He loses zero sanity from the battle by default, from start to end. Unless you take damage or use staffs throughout the fight, Walter doesn't care how close he has to get to deerclops, it won't cut a single point of his mind off unless he gets blasted by one of it's attacks. Most characters will almost always hit 0 or very close to the insane threshold, Walter doesn't worry about any of that unless you get hit a considerable amount of times.
• Even with the best ammo in the game, you still only deal 59.5 damage per shot (melty marbles are the only thing that do this BTW), which is lower then most endgame alternatives. Even with a hambat you will still deal more DPS due to the mentioned attack speed loss.

32 minutes ago, hyiltiz said:

Well, even with Lureplants, you'd still need a Houndius Shootius, which is a late game item. Marble is not.

You can also do a similar thing using a melee weapon instead. It's a bit harder to pull off, but it's perfectly doable without too much effort. Even then, I still don't like considering these scenarios, since it's not really how the battle is supposed to go. The best I could see Walter doing is being in a viable sniping position to take out 2-3 of the unseen hands and some woven shadows if he gets caged, which is technically better then what most can do. He can even do it with the standard rock rounds.

 

44 minutes ago, hyiltiz said:

Blow Darts take a lot of resources, and you wouldn't get 500 Hound Tooth by Day 100. You can get 1000 Marbles by Day 100 without much preparation or know-how. 

 

Yes, but only if you constantly micromanage marble shrubs. I already hate these with a passion, and needing to mine, recraft, and replant them just to double my marble gains isn't fun, especially given their above average growth cycle. Sure you can do this, but it takes a lot of effort in order to reliably work well, especially early on.

25 minutes ago, hyiltiz said:

Gold 1:10: Allows killing one bird to access killing 10 birds; exponential increase by a factor of x10. Wicker's Bird Farm is out of the window...

The thing that makes Wicker's bird farm good is it's both extremely fast and relatively efficient. I can see Walter's gold ammo for birds becoming a thing in servers, but Wicker can still farm ~20 birds in 15 seconds. While Walter can be self sufficient in terms of bird farming and likely krampus needs if you are dedicated enough, Wicker will easily surpass Walter in terms of food/naughtiness production.

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, hyiltiz said:

You can get 1000 Marbles by Day 100 without much preparation or know-how.

I'd rather recommend using the marble as marble armor. its just too much time consuming to farm all that marble just for ammo. sure you can kill him with style and fashion because you no one tells you to facetank only because i say it but even then, walter is made for kiting purposes and i dont think marble pellets can make it up for.

[fimmatek]

8 marbles just to kill Deerclops once? Pfft, so expensive, all you need is a tusk and some twigs and gold and you can kill it as many times as you want!

On a serious note, I agree with the people here that it's pretty balanced, since in general it's easier and quicker to use the usual meele weapons.

[Minitte]

a bunch of walters + boat = gun boat vs crab king

[Hornete]

This argument of "8 marbles to kill deerclops" is pretty terrible.

You can use some twigs, some flint and some grass to deal 5100 damage at a faster rate, or 2 twigs 2 meat and 1 pig skin to deal even more damage for a long time, or 5 nightmare fuel and one living log.

Honestly, if anything 8 marble to kill deerclops is a kind of a high price compared to the alternatives.

[Faahresc]

I was so hyped for Walter. Now he finally joined the crew but man i wasnt expecting him to be that overpowered. I like all characters klei designed. Dont get me wrong, i like how Walter looks and also i like some his skills but a lot of his abilities doesnt feel right for his concept for me. I mean i like the way klei think. 

I love how Walters‘fearlessness’ is much more him just being a kid who can’t tell that something’s dangerous. I also like the idea of his sleeping tent, his pet woby and the idea of bee allergy. But when i look at him and think about his combat and general skills. He just remindes me a high level broken archers from MMORPG games. His skills should ve been focused on survival not about poking the mobs with different type of pellets all the time. Which makes me bored about him already. Yeah he will be nerfed i know. I just want to share what i think about him right now since im talking about first impression. I whish he had skills for tracking and exclusive things for traps. Im just kinda bit dissapointed. He feels like someone cant fight properly but only poke from the distance. I know he is a kid and i dont expect him to fight like wolfgang. But the funny thing is he is more broken then any character rn about combat when you have materials. I dont have any problem with slingshot btw my problem is all about his abilities and how broken he is.

• He rides woby and opens the map faster than the other characters when he feeds him. 
• He pokes mobs from the distance since he cant get into close combat.
• He can support his team mates and boost their sanity while in camp if needed.
• He can make a portable tent and recover himself easier.
• He has a lot of ammo types and this variety lets you decide freely to pick one of them for your gameplay strategy.

I mean he looks weak but when you get your pellets and learn him enough to make a gameplay strategy. You can clearly see how broken and how irrevelant his skills for his look and concept. He is scout. Like i said i was expecting his skills to be more about survival and tracking. He shouldnt be that easy and i think his skills needs rework already. He is the first character i dont like the most. except his look and few ideas about his story telling at campfire, his pet woby, portable tent, bee allergy and fast cooking on campfire. Other than that, sorry walter fans thats what i think.   

[PasssionFish]

33 minutes ago, Warly The Cook said:

He pokes mobs from the distance since he cant get into close combat.

He can get into close combat he has only a 130 base HP but its not that bad if you know how to kite and he doesn't do any less damage last time I checked, the map thing doesnt seem that big of a deal to me i know i like him and his mechanics are unique but hey thats just my opinion and thats yours so I think everyone can agree woby is adorable though

[Mike23Ua]

Walters Slingshot happens to be good at fighting Cookie Cutters safely and reliably in mass hordes.  YaY!

[Owlrust]

Wolfgang can deal double damage on top of increased speed and is chosen for nearly any speedrun in the game, Wendy can solo Bee Queen with Abigail under minimal effort, and Wickerbottom's books can be abused very easily to both farm large amounts of resources and cheese large raid bosses with tentacles, Winona creates catapults that can be placed wherever you want and can be used to both, you guessed it, cheese bosses and farm resources, but Walter gets a slingshot with different effects depending on what you used. I think (in my own opinion) that if his slingshot never ran out of ammo (despite that if you plan ahead, you can amass more marble later on) he would be overpowered; but as he stands he's less powerful than even the "generally accepted overpowered characters" by a long-shot. Walter is based on being really good at survival / support it seems, and he is no better at fighting than say Wigfrid at best. Right now I cannot figure out how to take on the Bee Queen without spending at least 45-50 marble if I wanted to go the slow route of fighting from a distance.

[sinisterrkid]

Every character: two meats, one pig skin and a stick to kill a Deerclops