What does Warly need to be viable?

[pyroisshy]

When Warly was announced to be reworked for DST, I like many people was very excited to see how they would rework him.  Almost a year later, Warly is one of the weakest characters in the game, with disadvantages that make Wes better than him at areas like healing and early game rushing of bosses.

 

 Why his perks fall flat: Warly's unique dishes are very costly to make, with seven of them requiring farm plot specific food items, many of them even needing multiple farm plot items. Warly's spices are too are tedious to make early game, with honey crystals being the only reliable one unless you save your starting garlic and get lucky with an early farm plot harvest. As for his hunger disadvantages, despite his refined palette Warly can still survive off of meatballs and meaty stew if paced well with his food memory timer. 

My proposed changes for Warly:

1. No or significantly less diminishing returns for health gained from crock pot foods, so Warly can fight raid bosses effectively
2. Allow Warly to more easily acquire farm plot veggies and fruits (Perhaps a Warly specific portable farming kit?)
3. Warly now has the favorite food of seafood gumbo (it reminds him of grandma in his quotes) 
4. Starts with an onion and chef pouch
5. Seasoning salted foods spoil slower
6. Food with a hunger value over 60 now takes 3.5 days for Warly to forget eating them
7. Repeated foods are penalized less the closer Warly is to forgetting about them
8. A visual indicator of when Warly can eat a food dish with no penalty again.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

to be viable? im lost

 

[WkingDisaster]

Stomach transplant

 

 

[Misuto]

I'm with Aru, what do you mean viable? Warly is one of the most powerful support characters in the game.

 

1 hour ago, pyroisshy said:

No or significantly less diminishing returns for health gained from crock pot foods, so Warly can fight raid bosses effectively

 

Warly currently has the unseeded world record dragonfly solo speed run in just 19:03; he does not need help to beat raid bosses whatsoever: 

 

Not to mention, food is not the only way to heal. Honey poultices are extremely strong and farmable for Warly and any other character. Fur rolls and tents are sufficient for early ruins rushes. Thinking bosses or content is "harder" just because Warly has to play differently from other characters is trap mindset that ignores what can make a character special.

 

This is entirely on you the player. Warly is fully able to solo any content in the game without any extreme hoops to jump through. He is not a new player friendly character for sure, but Warly is one of the top 2 or 3 support characters in the entire game. Outside of support, he's one of the strongest early-mid game characters because when it's not raining, he can cook 80% damage increases and when it is raining that's buffed to 3x damage allowing his damage to nearly match or even exceed Wolfgang's. 

 

 

1 hour ago, pyroisshy said:

Allow Warly to more easily acquire farm plot veggies and fruits (Perhaps a Warly specific portable farming kit?)

Farm plots should be reworked entirely, this isn't just a Warly problem. Sadly, we may never get a rework so long as Wickerbottom remains as brokenly powerful as she currently is.

 

1 hour ago, pyroisshy said:

Warly now has the favorite food of seafood gumbo (it reminds him of grandma in his quotes) 

No. His favorite recipe is something new because it helps him expand his palate and become a better chef. Having a single favorite would encourage people to primarily make that one recipe for the most value, no different than his possible play style with double meaty stews right now.

 

1 hour ago, pyroisshy said:

Starts with an onion and chef pouch

He can already make a chef pouch day 1 and the item is just not worth making tbh. It's half as effective as an icebox and even smaller than a backpack. 

 

1 hour ago, pyroisshy said:

Food with a hunger value over 60 now takes 3.5 days for Warly to forget eating them

I disagree that trying to further force his downside would make Warly more interesting. It just further taxes the player's memory in an uninteresting way. You could still survive by just double eating meaty stew, then when your stomach is empty, triple eat meatballs and cycle through this with your proposed change. Literally nothing changes except the player has to remember which of the two meals they ate 20 minutes ago. 

 

1 hour ago, pyroisshy said:

A visual indicator of when Warly can eat a food dish with no penalty again.

 

As long as this was done with a character examination and not more information on the HUD. Like, examine your bacon and eggs and he says "I haven't eaten that in forever!" or "Yuck, I just had this yesterday." This would likely remove his existing examinations of food though, which are really cute and humanizing though...

 

Ultimately, the difficulty to play Warly is just the price to use his immense powers. People wouldn't complain so much about him if other equally powerful characters (such as Wickerbottom) had similarly large and game play changing downsides to play around.

 

The problem is not Warly. The problem is the unchecked power of a handful of characters with no relevant downsides but ridiculously huge upsides. 

[Owlrust]

What is considered a good character and a bad character is both your own opinion, and how you use them. Warly is a unique character that offers a different way for people to play. If you're concerned with winning DST, just use Wolfgang; there's no reward for it in the end anyways so why not just play who you want. 

[Mike23Ua]

I feel like Warlys downside should be more heavily enforced, he should ONLY be able to eat foods prepared in his personal cooking ware unless Someone Else cooks it and feeds it to Warly Themselves (meaning that he couldn’t eat from cooking pots that aren’t his own.. and he couldn’t eat for example- the 58 meatballs someone stored in the fridge)

I do also strongly feel that if they made that above change that they should also make his repeated food dish penalty a little less harsh, maybe after 4-5 different meals he will enjoy the same meal again! 
 

The craziest suggestion I have for him is to let him use his cooking pot as a melee weapon, okay yes Tangled was one of my favorite Disney movies but still.. if I ain’t got a spear a metal cook pot will do.. right?

[Zeklo]

The only problem I see with Warly is that he's a pick and drop.

Pair the fact that his downsides are more annoying than fun (imo) with the fact that his only real perks are items and you get a prime candidate for Celestial Portal swapping. 

[kilobit]

Warly just really needs some sort of indicator for all of the foods he's eaten, I personally get really stressed at times with Warly because I just won't remember which foods I've eaten, and how long it's been since

[Blue Moth]

Warly works best with Wormwood, as Wormwood can provide early access to crops, but I see why he's problematic for solo players.

[Luis Lzn]

Just play wolfgang dude, warly is one of my favorite characters in dst and the one i have the most fun playing with, farming on it's own should be totally reworked of at least tweaked in some way yes, but to claim that a character that can basically turn itself in a mash-up of wigfrid defense, wolfgang attack, thor's powers AND increase the healing effect from already awesome healing dishes need something to be ''viable'' is a laughable statement. If you don't like having farms around you and use them to grow your veggies when you need them or store stacks of specific crop seeds inside iceboxes then you can just grow some of them and make powder cakes and season them and use them when you need them since they basically last forever. 

[Dr. Safety]

Honestly the only thing I want to change about Warly is an additional perk that gives more of a reason to stick with the character and not just drop him the minute you get bundling wraps and the resources to mass produce his dishes. I said it once, I’ll say it a thousand times... I think he should have bonus stats in some way shape or form to food that is made in the portable crock pot, even if it is just additional sanity. Point is, not just faster, but better. Also the portable seasoning station seems pretty... pointless? If he ground up the seasoning already can’t he just... ya know...  

Oh and also a chef skin

[KCDA]

2 hours ago, WkingDisaster said:

Stomach transplant

To be fair, the bacteria in one's stomach plays a MASSIVE part in one's tastebuds, cravings, and desire to eat certain types of food. (Or in this case variety.)

[CarlZalph]

2 hours ago, bitcrushed_rage said:

Warly just really needs some sort of indicator for all of the foods he's eaten, I personally get really stressed at times with Warly because I just won't remember which foods I've eaten, and how long it's been since

Perhaps before a crock recipe has started to cook, Warly could examine the crockpot itself to say out a quote.

The quote would be about the prepared food that would come out sounding exquisite, bland, or not even appetizing depending on how long ago the meal was eaten before.

Since some recipes have percent chances of outcomes, having him randomly pick one of them based upon the odds of a meal popping out could suffice.

1 hour ago, Dr. Safety said:

I think he should have bonus stats in some way shape or form to food that is made in the portable crock pot, even if it is just additional sanity. Point is, not just faster, but better.

In the short, Warly seemed really happy to see his relative happy when she ate.  Perhaps a bonus to Warly himself when nearby players eat his signature dishes?

[SaltyWarly]

Warly is just fine as he is right now.

[Dr. Safety]

Just now, CarlZalph said:

the short, Warly seemed really happy to see his relative happy when she ate.  Perhaps a bonus to Warly himself when nearby players eat his signature dishes?

I like the idea, but I’d say there needs to be more signature dishes for that to make any real impact. Either that or just make it any dish he makes but the problem is the game being able to differentiate meatballs made by Warly and meatballs made by any other character. Even still I think it’s too niche, similar to Winona getting a free hit from the night. 

Maybe I’m just too set on the idea of bonus stats for any dish made by him, but I just honestly think that is the best route to go to prevent him from being a pick and switch character.

[pyroisshy]

2 hours ago, Misuto said:

Ultimately, the difficulty to play Warly is just the price to use his immense powers. People wouldn't complain so much about him if other equally powerful characters (such as Wickerbottom) had similarly large and game play changing downsides to play around.

Personally, i see Warly's advantages as very under powered, considering the cost to produce them reliably. In order to get chili flakes, you need to farm Peppers (2.6% chance from seeds) and will usually need a bird cage in order to get the amount needed for the flakes. This usually means that chili flakes are a post-winter item for solo players. In the meantime, Wendy players get half the damage buff of chili flakes for something as simple as keeping Abigail alive.

Fish cordon bleu requires a merm farm (which a Wurt player will usually have to construct) if you want to get it without having to rely on frog rain and fishing rods, which can only get you 9 fish per craft.

Volt goat chaud-froid, while easier to cook up than most of his other recipes, comes from a 25% drop chance from a mob located in only one biome, which either makes it so that you have to make a lengthy trip to the oasis every time you want to get the damage increase, have to relocate the herd to your base, or base in the oasis. 

The perks of Warly in the early game is mainly just his portable crock-pot, honey crystals, and his most practical dish, glow berry mousse. 

His immense powers come out in the mid to late game, when these farms can be fully functional, and where swapping to the characters that most effectively utilize Warly's dishes is as easy as combining a red and blue gem.

[Steve Raptor]

Wow I play almost exclusively Warly and I disagree with pretty much everything you wrote OP.

 

1) Warly is nowhere near weak, vise versa, probably the best character in DST in terms of what he has to offer and how versatile he is.

2) Hes food is extremely powerful, providing strong gathering boosts, combat boosts and utility.

3) Warly complexity and downsides translates into "forcing you" to play more of the game and participate in game activities that usually you won't do when playing other characters, hes downsides are very well designed. For example, your'e encouraged to hunt volt goats, mine salt in the sea and farm. Contrary to most other survivors that can live off pretty much on meatballs, Warly downside forces you to be more diverse, which is for me a huge bonus, I never run out of things to do.

4) You completely overestimate how difficult it is to obtain ingredients for hes recipes, here is how I obtain ingredients for hes most useful food:.

• Volt goat jelly - I make a volt goat farm in my base, also serves as good source of milk for ice cream and meat, relocating volt goats is a one-time thing and it takes 2-4 days depending on the distance to the biome. 
• Fish Cordon Bleu - requires a nearby fishing pond to get some fish and frog legs, will get you all the fish you need, also there are locations on the map with several ponds, this spawns plenty of frogs. This food is only useful in the spring, the same season where you get frog rains as well, where you get absurd amount of frog legs.
• Asparagazpacho  - Farming asparagus
• Bone Bouillon- Go to the cave, fish ~20 eels, let them rot and hammer them for lots of bone shards.
• Moqueca - Farming onions and tomatoes
• Pepper/Garlic - Farming

I have 9 improved farms in my base and Its more than enough.

Occasionally i do "Boost farming" by feeding a stack or two of light bulbs to a nearby were pig, getting loads of manure and using it to insta-grow crops.

IMO, Warly doesn't need any change, its the best and the most well designed and balanced character Klei has released in DST.

When making a base with Warly, all you need is:

1) Have at least 1 fishing pond nearby.

2) Have a cave entrance in the close proximity (2-3 screens to avoid bats).

That's it really......

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, pyroisshy said:

Personally, i see Warly's advantages as very under powered, considering the cost to produce them reliably. In order to get chili flakes, you need to farm Peppers (2.6% chance from seeds) and will usually need a bird cage in order to get the amount needed for the flakes. This usually means that chili flakes are a post-winter item for solo players. In the meantime, Wendy players get half the damage buff of chili flakes for something as simple as keeping Abigail alive.

Fish cordon bleu requires a merm farm (which a Wurt player will usually have to construct) if you want to get it without having to rely on frog rain and fishing rods, which can only get you 9 fish per craft.

Volt goat chaud-froid, while easier to cook up than most of his other recipes, comes from a 25% drop chance from a mob located in only one biome, which either makes it so that you have to make a lengthy trip to the oasis every time you want to get the damage increase, have to relocate the herd to your base, or base in the oasis. 

The perks of Warly in the early game is mainly just his portable crock-pot, honey crystals, and his most practical dish, glow berry mousse. 

His immense powers come out in the mid to late game, when these farms can be fully functional, and where swapping to the characters that most effectively utilize Warly's dishes is as easy as combining a red and blue gem.

But when you get it is as simple as eat the food. Way more easy that keeping abi alive (and you forget that wendy must grind white flowers for the elixirs too) and can be used in all bosses.

Also warly get defense bonus so need less healing+salt spice gives more healing= you only need few dishes for fighting and also you have 2 damage bonus so the fights are quicker (try to fight toadstool with warly and after that try to do the same with wendy) and even if you are not good at kitting (if you fave tank everything then dont play this character yet) you can bring 2 or 3 kind of healing food like pierogies, trail mix, chili, potato cream, surf n turf (60hp 30 sanity, do you need more?), fish sticks, dragon pie,

He isnt the most powerful in the 1st winter but is so strong in late.You can farm a lot of manure in minites and farm the crops, then use bundle wrap and keep it for ever. Its a spring work that last for the entire year

His downsides are perfect, if you dont remember what dish have you eat just try and read what he says. i didnt play him so much and i didnt have any problem so if you play it a lot you will be familiarized with the downside. His hunger is fine too amd also you have a lot of dishes that fills you stomach: meat stew, dragon pie, bone soup, mestballs, honey hams, monster lasagna(his is not that bad) bacon and eggs, etc and even you can eat in between things like taffy, pierogies, honey nuggets, his suffle to shyne, potato dishes, etc. And this for simple dishes

 

He is so powerful in ruins since he can have light at the same time he is wearing helmet and weapon.

Is not that bad to have only honey crystals in the first days. You can focus on building your base so you will have everything to fed him in less time instead of rushing bosses. Each character should have his own path and not be a copy of wolfgang/wendy/wigfrid killing everything with only one crookpot, 1 icebox, and few chest and all the stuff in the floor. He is more "prepare everything to shine" and anyways you can beat klaus and deerclops with no extra effort so i dont see he being bad in winter just you need to be more careful with which ingredient you waste

This game is suppose to be difficult and some of you want to transform it in a walking simulator.  Still waiting for post about nerfing wortox, abigail and company but seems thar we only ask for buffs and for that we have the workshop, there is plenty of 300 hp x3 damage multiply hentai characters and people seems like want this for the base game....

 

 

[landromat]

you're lucky there is no dislike button

[shadowDigga]

Out of those who argued against Warly being underpowered, is there at least a single person who regularly plays him?

UPD: Nvm, there is one, let's see how many more are in there.

[Yuuko]

Funny seeing this as I just posted earlier about my buddy considering Warly a more challenging character than Wes.  I played him through some games today and am growing to like the chef quite a bit.  He's certainly not as ez-mode as Wendy or Wolfgang, but he's also not really that challenging... I haven't played him a lot yet, but if you like the idea of being a support character Warly seems to be the go-to choice.  Also if you play solo and don't like switching characters he's a feels like a great pick.

TIP - If you forgot what you ate - eat a meaty stew.  It gives enough hunger to wait out whatever you ate last, even if what you ate last was another meaty stew.  90% of a meaty stew is still 135 hunger lol.  Basically a meaty stew is a palate cleanser that makes tracking his food pretty easy.  If you set up a bunnyman farm (not a difficult task for first autumn if its what you want to do with your time) you can have an endless supply of meaty stews readily available.

If I were to change anything about Warly it would be giving him more unique recipes which grant interesting perks.  Maybe a speed boost dish that doesn't stack with other speed boosts.  Maybe a dish that gives you strength to carry large weights without being slowed down.  Maybe other things, idk lol  just more!

[Caochu]

I will be a picky eater just like Warly and answer only about what I liked 

9 hours ago, pyroisshy said:

1.  
2. Allow Warly to more easily acquire farm plot veggies and fruits (Perhaps a Warly specific portable farming kit?)
3.  
4.  
5. Seasoning salted foods spoil slower

Playing Warly for something like 1 000 days now, I can tell that it is becoming tedious to farm pepper and garlic, repeating the same tasks : harvest, feed the birds, pray RNGesus to have a good return on investment and plant the seeds. Repeat a lot to increase your stock. I would love to have a Warly craft being a condiment farm. Planting a seed inside will grow only potatoes, tomatoes, asparagus, pepper, garlic and onion. With a higher chance of potatoes and tomatoes as it is now. So basically you would use regular farms for regular fruits/vegetables and those ones for Warly exclusive dishes, increasing the actual chances of doing asparagazpacho, moqueca, hot dragon chili salad (currently I will waste no pepper on that one).

I never salt my healing dishes to be honest, and any more incentive to do so would be great 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

30 minutes ago, shadowDigga said:

Out of those who argued against Warly being underpowered, is there at least a single person who regularly plays him?

UPD: Nvm, there is one, let's see how many more are in there.

I played him a lot in the release and i didnt see anything underpower

I would like to see how much hours have all of these "buff X" users because some characters are not for begginers

[Well-met]

maybe get rid of the food decrement?

not being able to eat uncooked stuff is still a decent downside on its own.

all the refreshes so far are pretty much a straight upgrade to wilson and no one seems to mind, so why not give warly the same treatment?

[Raeku]

Currently on day 550 in a Warly only world. He is in no way underpowered, and I feel like a total powerhouse. I am prepared for every fight with a spicy jelly, a garlic glowberry mouse, and an appropriate seasonal dish so i dont need to worry about heat/cold/rain.

Warly just has a different playstyle. This is nor "non-viable." It's a good thing, that's the point of having more than two characters