[Game Update] - 389761

[speckle21]

I got my money's worth. $33 for 500+ hours of enjoyment, far more than a lot of other games.

Now i have slowed down a lot since i've hit the "Bug-Wall" of game ruining bugs, lag, annoying inconveniences and incomplete features ... but for the first 500 hours the game played reasonably fine. Despite those problems the game was fun enough and complete enough to keep me engaged.

For those of you complaining, do you actually feel Klei ripped you off? Gave you something that wasn't worth the money you spent on it? 

Don't get me wrong, i would LOVE all the problems to be fixed, I would LOVE to more stuff, features and expansions... but I feel the game as-is is a reasonable return for what i paid for, 500+ hours of fun.

Now i can hear you screaming from an asteroid away: You paid for a complete bug-free game. And you will accept nothing less than 100% complete and bug free.... I think that's a bad metric.

Tetris is a complete bug free game, is it worth $33. Is it more game than ONI? I don't think so.

I recently went on a vacation with a total cost of $13000. It was FULL of "bugs" and "incomplete features". airplane lost one of my luggage cases, hotel screwed up booking so i had to find another hotel. One of the guests at the convention i was going to didn't show up (missing feature!), and a host of little things didn't go perfectly. But holy crap it was a fun vacation and i would do it all again in a heart beat. Despite all the screw ups i felt like i got my money's worth. Nothing in life is perfect, neither in game or in real life. 

Despite the bugs, is what is playable actually enjoyable? Did ONI give you your money's worth in terms of enjoyment?

For me, I think it did. And while i would love more, and will still continue to poke and prod the Devs for those fixes and expansions... I'm going to respect that they have already delivered a wonderful fulfilling experience for the $33 i spent on it. If all development stopped and today was the final game build. I'd still say it was $33 well-spent while also being sad that it's over.

And I'm not taking a shot at you players for complaining, i just feel that sometimes we get too caught up in the righteous fervor of a hate-train that we get carried away. Happens to me all the time, i'm no saint. Hate-trains are fun, it's been scientifically proven that we get a dopamine rush when engaged in one (might explain the state of politics...). But we need to step back sometimes... heck a lot of times... and acknowledge that we do appreciate the work and functionality put into a game and give our thanks for delivering the enjoyment we paid for. At least I felt i got my money's worth.

Otherwise, if all we do is complain and whine then we appear overly dramatic and entitled even though we don't believe we are. By all means keep complaining, even Devs can get lazy, but pepper that with an honest assessment of whether you liked or didn't like the game overall. I don't think any of you think you're entitled, but it's hard not see that in some of these comments.

Personally, i think the space level is buggy and incomplete and pisses me off to no end. But I hope the fact that i get that far in all my games shows i do love everything up to that point, otherwise i wouldn't make it that far. 

[Sasza22]

11 hours ago, Oozinator said:

That "critter stuck" thing sucks too, very much. Do pips still reproduce when stuck, because fish doesn't and it's easy to lose whole population when it happens?

The critter stuck thing seems to be similar to the previous Dreck/Shove vole bug where their pathing got broken when their destination tile was destroyed. For me it happens when the liquid level in the room changes. Flyers and fish get stuck as they can`t reach a destination that is no longer liquid or gas.

For a while i thought this was fixed but it seems it`s still happening.

[thewreckedangle]

5 hours ago, speckle21 said:

Did ONI give you your money's worth in terms of enjoyment?

for me, £0.00295 per hour, meanwhile my mobile phone cost me £33 PER MONTH and apparently i use it an average of 12 minutes per day

i can't say i've encountered any of these "game breaking bugs" or maybe i have but it didn't break things that matter/affect me?

i don't much like the "there are 10k bug reports in the bug forum" argument.. many are duplicates, incorrect reports, outdated or duplicates.

also yeah, that "entitled" feeling. just because they don't omgfixitnow, doesn't mean they aren't. maybe its waay harder than you think. maybe it breaks a ton of other things. maybe it requires a huge amount of work that they are doing but they also do other stuff too because otherwise you would complain that "why aren't they adding any new features?!" maybe its super easy and they can't be arsed. maybe its not a bug and is a flaw in your design. maybe its god MEEP

[Junksteel]

15 hours ago, speckle21 said:

For those of you complaining, do you actually feel Klei ripped you off? Gave you something that wasn't worth the money you spent on it? 

No! Not at all! Nobody said such a thing... this is a step pretty further away from the complaints posted here. Let's not escalate the drama beyond what was said. There were no critics addressed directly to Klei or the developers. Despite the game being amazing, it is at an 'ok' state in terms of bugs and performance. I think people are just expressing their concerns about the future of the game and the upcoming path because they love the project, not for the sake of trashing it. We already know Klei have plans to update the game and bring more content to it. However, the community is giving feedback on the direction that fixing bugs and performance are top priorities taking for granted they are reading the forums. I recently opened a thread about the last update to discuss joy reactions/new recreation buildings and it kinda deviated from original purpose because people were in the urge to ask for fixes. Clearly there is something going on...

Edited January 17, 2020 by Junksteel

[Oozinator]

 

17 hours ago, fatheroctopus said:

What is the expected behavior here? When I ran this test, Mi-Ma locked all the doors, but she didn't have to pass through any of them to do so.

On the second screenshot  you can see what happens everytime i reload the save and add lock to all doors.
Mi Ma opens a door to reach through it, to lock another door and that breaks the "reservoir."
@fatheroctopus
Perhaps it's related to "lock order"
I locked doors in that order (just now / retesting)

and the result is:
Mi Ma locked doors in green order, but opens her third door / breaking reservoir


I would say, the intended behavior should be, that Mi Ma should not open doors, with no access granted, to reach a tile, clearly in "no access" zone, from that direction.

They do the same, when idle. (Result is sometimes open door in stable for example, or other nervesucking things)

13 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

The critter stuck thing seems to be similar to the previous Dreck/Shove vole bug where their pathing got broken when their destination tile was destroyed. For me it happens when the liquid level in the room changes. Flyers and fish get stuck as they can`t reach a destination that is no longer liquid or gas.

For a while i thought this was fixed but it seems it`s still happening.

Could be the reason in some cases (level change/blocked tile), but i had it for sure in pools with fixed water levels too.
No tile, where their path could reach, was changed and still happened.

That water was added perhaps hundred cycles back,  and no other water was added.
Too much water to let slime in storage offgas (would change level a bit/short time)
I lost perhaps 60 pacu at the far right tile.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Oozinator

[Gurgel]

I have a rater bad bug: Liquid routing does not work right in the testing release. In the attached save, the auto-miners left side close to space do not get cooled. Before the test-release, the same design worked. I had to put in several bridges as "flow diodes" to get it to work again.

g094.sav

Edited January 17, 2020 by Gurgel

[KittenIsAGeek]

On 1/16/2020 at 2:57 AM, suxkar said:

because reservoirs exchange heat with one tile below them as if they were debris and currently debris exchanges heat very well with tiles, even insulated ones.

Yep. This was exactly what I was referring to.

[Gurgel]

20 hours ago, Satyrical364 said:

Instead of "game breaking" I think it would be better to call some of these bugs "joy draining." 

I can agree to the term as "joy draining" is subjective and can be caused by any number of things.

I do not find it to be "joy draining" either, though.

[fatheroctopus]

6 hours ago, Oozinator said:

 

On the second screenshot  you can see what happens everytime i reload the save and add lock to all doors.
Mi Ma opens a door to reach through it, to lock another door and that breaks the "reservoir."

Thanks for the clarification. The door permissions are primarily designed towards preventing a dupe from moving through the space, not to stop them from opening them. I see how that could feel unexpected though - I'll take a look at it.

2 hours ago, Gurgel said:

I have a rater bad bug: Liquid routing does not work right in the testing release. In the attached save, the auto-miners left side close to space do not get cooled. Before the test-release, the same design worked. I had to put in several bridges as "flow diodes" to get it to work again.

g094.sav

Hi Gurgel - I loaded up your base on the live release, and it also exhibited the same bug - could you double-check that it was working for you before switching to the testing build?

I have been looking at this issue where conduit flows are not behaving properly, but I wasn't able to get a fix in for this patch.

[Gurgel]

47 minutes ago, fatheroctopus said:

Hi Gurgel - I loaded up your base on the live release, and it also exhibited the same bug - could you double-check that it was working for you before switching to the testing build?

The last save I have that I can load into the life release was a bit different in the piping and it does not have the bug in either life or test. Seems I just triggered the problem with the last changes I did and the test release did not introduce this bug. Best treat this just as one more test case for the fix. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Gurgel

[speckle21]

7 hours ago, Junksteel said:

 Nobody said such a thing... this is a step pretty further away from the complaints posted here. Let's not escalate the drama beyond what was said.

Oh i'm not accusing anyone of saying that. I am the one asking that question to get people to review their perspective. Apologies for the confusion. I 100% believe absolutely no one on this forum thinks they got ripped off, as i'm sure such people would never even bothering to come to this forum.

But i think it's a good question to remind some of louder complainants that it is just a game. And to measure it by one's enjoyment versus how much they paid for it. 

I emphasize again, I am the one asking the question, no one else has said anything like it. Apologies for the confusion. 

 

[klei.ruby]

On 1/15/2020 at 3:35 PM, yoakenashi said:

I would have loved a fix for any one of these:

Don't miss the update here regarding the rummaging @yoakenashi

 

[sepoki]

On 1/16/2020 at 3:02 PM, Junksteel said:

Glad there are devs still working on the game but I need to agree with the overall complaint. ONI is playable atm but late game is really unpleasant because of performance. A game like this only makes sense if you feel free to progress without an invisible clock deteriorating your save while you go through the in-game challenges. There is a serious time investment to be considered before engaging on fresh starts. Playing 200 hours the same base just to realize defeat by lag is coming again was something acceptable before the release of the game. As we already crossed that checkpoint of launch the hope is kinda gone you know? Beyond performance, bugs. They may not brake the game, but certainly cause damage to the interest of those who played enough to detect weird interactions repeatedly.

My realistic feedback: please fix performance and at least conveyors before coming up with a DLC or snowballing more new stuff into the game. Thanks.

Same. I skimmed the update for any performance improves or bugfixes that would help anyone with an established base. F.ex. visuals of launching rockets are still screwed. Aquatuners are still experiencing heat loss bug unless you fix it in a contrived way. Still no multi-threading whatsover, so my duplicants are waiting around like zombies waiting for previous duplicants and critters to update their pathfinding. So we are forced to kill all our critters and lock our duplicants out of 95% of our base. Game runs at 15 fps while using 24% of my cpu and ram max.

This update has nothing I care about. It seems Klei's expectation is that people will be bored of this game before they notice these game-breaking bugs piling up over time with 1000+ cycles. New content probably sells better than bugfixes but more recreational buildings was not what this game needed.

Kind regards,

Sepoki

[Satyrical364]

5 hours ago, sepoki said:

This update has nothing I care about. It seems Klei's expectation is that people will be bored of this game before they notice these game-breaking bugs piling up over time with 1000+ cycles. New content probably sells better than bugfixes but more recreational buildings was not what this game needed.

Well, if you go by the steam achievements, most people who buy this game don't even bother to start it up. Only 34.4% of players bothered to make a toilet and a bed. Only 13.5% of players make a base that lasts 100 cycles and only 8.2% of players make it to the oil biome.

We're a pretty small bunch. However, people are starting up ONI all the time and there is a small but active community on Twitch because people keep firing it up for the first time and falling in love.

I agree I wasn't that enthused about recreational buildings considering what we have going on, but I theorize that Klei is pushing out the things they had in the pipeline, or things that are minor bugfixes, while they work on bigger and more important things.

I'm confident that includes the major glitches and probably also a DLC of some kind. I just hope the glitches get fixed before the DLC, but I understand they may need to make more funding for this game via DLC to justify game engine rework to patch out some of these bugs. I'll wait and see.

I continue to play my current base but sometimes it's only for a few minutes a day before I get bored. I think I need new content AND bug fixes. Imagine that!

[Gurgel]

1 hour ago, Satyrical364 said:

Well, if you go by the steam achievements, most people who buy this game don't even bother to start it up. Only 34.4% of players bothered to make a toilet and a bed. Only 13.5% of players make a base that lasts 100 cycles and only 8.2% of players make it to the oil biome.

Looking at some other games I have, the steam achievement numbers have zero reliability and, worse, seem to be significantly different for different games in ways that make no sense. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by Gurgel

[Satyrical364]

1 hour ago, Gurgel said:

Looking at some other games I have, the steam achievement numbers have zero reliability and, worse, seem to be significantly different for different games in ways that make no sense. 

How so? I know if you have mods installed steam achievements don't register, but I doubt people would not create a bed and toilet before installing mods. I'm inclined to believe thats accurate.

[Gurgel]

1 hour ago, Satyrical364 said:

How so? I know if you have mods installed steam achievements don't register, but I doubt people would not create a bed and toilet before installing mods. I'm inclined to believe thats accurate.

I have some AAA games where indications are only 15% of people ever played them. I have others where 60% apparently played them, with no discernible differences that could explain the difference. The numbers simply do not make sense and seem completely unsuitable to make any sort of assessment. My point is that the 34% number is likely nonsense and that I can see similarly nonsensical numbers for several other games. 

[pacovf]

Steam sales are common, and many people buy games but never get around to playing them. The proportion between owners and players will depend on the popularity of the game, its price point, how often it goes on sale, etc.

The heuristic I use is to look at the simplest achievement to gauge real players, and divide all further percentages by that (i.e.if 34.4% of owners got a bed and toilet, then 13.5%/34.4% = 39% of players got to 100 cycles). I'm 99% sure game devs add this kind of very simple achievement precisely for this purpose.

Edited January 20, 2020 by pacovf

[Stoned]

I have put thousands of hours into the game and still love it. For me it was always about how far can I go in terms of automation, nice base design and number of dupes in it. 
I always tried to avoid anything that smelled like an exploit. But with every playthrough I always hit a wall before I actually used all my resources avail on my asteroid. On my actual base with 120 dupes AI lag of dupes is hardly bearable. But the critter AI lag is what really kills it, slicksters and pufts in farms lag too much to eat decent amounts of calories, I had to kill all my cute little decor bugs. 
I don’t care about most of the bugs and glitches, if only they would find a way to handle more dupes than 100 and especially more critters than 1000 with decent performance on high tech rigs.

Are you working on that Klei? Or just some DLC giving us more cosmetic stuff? Something like a new roadmap would be nice.

 

[Gurgel]

2 hours ago, pacovf said:

I'm 99% sure game devs add this kind of very simple achievement precisely for this purpose.

Well, the Oni devs do because they are smart. I have not seen many others that had such an unavoidable early achievement.

[Prince Mandor]

10 hours ago, Stoned said:

I don’t care about most of the bugs and glitches, if only they would find a way to handle more dupes than 100 and especially more critters than 1000 with decent performance on high tech rigs.

Are you working on that Klei? 

This fix is "historically impossible".

At the moment Klei fixes it, people start to complain about 200 dupes and ten thousands of creatures.

If Klei make it that far, there will be complains about 1000 dupes and too little regolith falling to feed half million of ShoeVoles. And so on and so on.

As long as computers have some finite resources, and game is endless, there will be "end of game lag"

[Satyrical364]

I did some research on how accurate steam achievements, and I believe it's very accurate except for games that didn't always ship with achievements enabled, but added them later.

I think ONI fits into this, as I don't believe it always had achievements. Anyone who bought the game, and put it down for good or ended up installing mods (thereby disabling achievements in Steam) before the achievements were released won't be counted.

As such, I don't think the numbers for ONI are all that relevant, considering how much attention and players the game was attracting before those achievements were added. 

[thewreckedangle]

2 hours ago, Satyrical364 said:

won't be counted.

also i'm pretty sure it doesn't count anyone who plays in "offline" mode, which i would imagine, is a large amount of people

[Soulwind]

How much space does a Balloon Artist need?  I've opened up a 4 high x 6 wide space in my rec room and it hasn't seemed to matter.  Got sparkling trails and stickers everywhere, but no balloons.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Soulwind

[Gurgel]

57 minutes ago, Soulwind said:

How much space does a Balloon Artist need?  I've opened up a 4 high x 6 wide space in my rec room and it hasn't seemed to matter.  Got sparkling trails and stickers everywhere, but no balloons.

Same here. Either this thing us ultra-rare or it has some pretty special requirements.