When Morning Stars Are Outclassed By a Spear :'(

[lakhnish]

When you eat a Volt Goat Jelly, existing Electrical Weaponry do not gain any additional damage bonuses (damage bonus for being an electrical weapon + the electrical damage boost when stuff is wet). This behavior is intentional, as per Vito in my bug report here. What that also means is that the Morning Star is outclassed by the common Spear :'(

Spears do 85 damage with the Jelly, while Morning Stars only do 72.25. That just ain't right.

Here is a demonstration of the damage outputs between the two weaponry with just a Volt Goat Jelly (no additional modifiers).

Spear Damage:

Spoiler

Morning Star Damage:

Spoiler

I like the Jelly and what it does, just not the fact that it makes Morning Stars and Electric Darts worthless now. 

The Jelly lasts for 8 minutes 5 minutes while Morning Stars only have a durability of 6 minutes, with both costing a single Goat Horn. The biggest hindrance to Darts were always Reeds. The choice between choosing to farm Electric Darts versus Normal Darts is a very clear one now: regular Darts are just superior.

On behalf of all electrical weaponry enthusiasts, can something be done to deal with this damage disparity that the previously existing Electrical weapons now face due to the Jelly? 

Edit: It seems the duration of the Jelly is 5 minutes instead. That changes things a bit

[kilobit]

Buff their damage, simple as that

[Bird Up]

It's important not to assume there will be a Warly in every game and that volt jelly is going to be sitting around like free candy. You can only make as many as the volt goat respawn timer and drop RNG will allow. Though I do think that the jelly should give a higher electric modifier on the morning star and electric darts. They weren't used much as weapons before, and certainly won't be used much after the introduction of volt goat jelly.

[lakhnish]

5 minutes ago, Bird Up said:

It's important not to assume there will be a Warly in every game and that volt jelly is going to be sitting around like free candy. You can only make as many as the volt goat respawn timer and drop RNG will allow. Though I do think that the jelly should give a higher electric modifier on the morning star and electric darts. They weren't used much as weapons before, and certainly won't be used much after the introduction of volt goat jelly.

The Celestial Portal exists, with there being nothing to stop from setting up a mini crockpot station to make your Jelly. As for the RNG of the Goat Horns, Goats are my main source of meat, so I'm always farming them. I get a ton of Goat Horns in the process that end up just sitting there, even for worlds with only 1 goat herd. While the general player base may not really use Morning Stars, there are players such as myself that uses them a lot.

But yes, doing something to the Morning Star and Electric Darts damage is where I agree.

[AnitaCoffee]

9 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

The Celestial Portal exists, with there being nothing to stop from setting up a mini crockpot station to make your Jelly. As for the RNG of the Goat Horns, Goats are my main source of meat, so I'm always farming them. I get a ton of Goat Horns in the process that end up just sitting there, even for worlds with only 1 goat herd. While the general player base may not really use Morning Stars, there are players such as myself that uses them a lot.

But yes, doing something to the Morning Star and Electric Darts damage is where I agree.

I thought only Warly could use his equipment and make his specific recipes?

[ADM]

11 minutes ago, AnitaCoffee said:

I thought only Warly could use his equipment and make his specific recipes?

Yeah but Bundle Wraps exist, so even if there is no Warly connected, you can save as many Jelly you want before you need Warly to make more on your server.

[lakhnish]

18 minutes ago, AnitaCoffee said:

I thought only Warly could use his equipment and make his specific recipes?

Yes, that's true. But with the Celestial Portal, you can just be Warly, make his stuff, and then change back is what the first sentence meant. (You obviously make a lot more than just what I'm showing). 

Spoiler

Also what @ADM said.

[Pluschi-Cal]

1 hour ago, lakhnish said:

I like the Jelly and what it does, just not the fact that it makes Morning Stars and Electric Darts worthless now. 

The choice between choosing to farm Electric Darts versus Normal Darts is a very clear one now: regular Darts are just superior.

Darts have always been useless but ok

[SonicDen220]

I don't care if Wolfgang can get to x100 damage. I don't care if literally every character becomes super overpowered. But this is a niche weapon that becomes the strongest only at certain circumstances, which made it unique, made it balanced. That's what I always liked about it. I've grown an attachment to it. And they nerfed it.
Nerfing it is the worst thing Klei has ever done in my eyes. And that's not an exaggeration. 
KLEI, YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT, BUT YOU BETTER NOT TAKE MY CHILD AWAY FROM ME. 

[fimmatek]

You can extend the lifetime of the Morning Star by unequipping it during the fight (for kiting for example, or just put it away after the fight) and you can deconstruct it to get the horn back. You cannot do these with the jelly, once that's eaten, your 8-min timer ticks and that horn won't come back. So I wouldn't call the Morning Star worthless, in fact I believe it's still a good alternative, especially for bigger groups where you would need a lot of horns.

Tho, if Klei made it refuelable, that would be pretty awesome (maybe even OP?).

[Ezaroth]

52 minutes ago, fimmatek said:

you can deconstruct it to get the horn back.

I wouldn't waste green gem to get a volt horn.

[Alexias]

You can say the same for spear and football helmet getting outclassed by wig stuff.

But you forget that one require one characters while other can be crafted by any character.

You can use celestial portal but it cost  purple gem.

 

[Cpt. KatKit]

9 hours ago, lakhnish said:

Yes, that's true. But with the Celestial Portal, you can just be Warly, make his stuff, and then change back is what the first sentence meant. (You obviously make a lot more than just what I'm showing). 

  Reveal hidden contents

Also what @ADM said.

By that logic there is no reason to pick anyone but wolfgang or wigfrid.

[Brago-sama]

Ironically this thread actually made me go make a morning star and go kill a few Goose Goose. I love it lol. Shame about that volt jelly tho

[TemporaryMan]

4 hours ago, Alexias said:

You can say the same for spear and football helmet getting outclassed by wig stuff.

But you forget that one require one characters while other can be crafted by any character.

You can use celestial portal but it cost  purple gem.

 

Do you... do you understand how easy it is to get purple gems?  You may as well be saying "sure, you can maintain an eyebrella forever with sewing kits, but it costs hound teeth."

Furthermore, spear and football helmets are basic, general-purpose equipment, so getting outclassed by something more expensive made by a specific character is okay.  Morning stars and electric darts were top-tier weapons, but only under special circumstances; now they're outclassed by the same generic weapons used for every other circumstance, with higher durability and lower cost.

[me real life]

8 hours ago, Ezaroth said:

I wouldn't waste green gem to get a volt horn.

What else are you going to use those green gems on, though? In my experience, people are so afraid of "wasting" green gems, that those green gems end up sitting unused in a storage area.

[Ezaroth]

1 minute ago, Sunset Skye said:

What else are you going to use those green gems on, though? In my experience, people are so afraid of "wasting" green gems, that those green gems end up sitting unused in a storage area.

Construct and Deconstruct to multiply Thulecites.

[Faultz]

spice powdercakes last forever

[me real life]

2 minutes ago, Ezaroth said:

Construct and Deconstruct to multiply Thulecites.

And then you use this thulecite for...?

The main uses for thulecite are just armor/crowns, walls, and amulets (1 of which is refuelable so you'll never need to craft more than an initial batch, the other is the lazy forager which you will not craft often at all), some of those things are nice but I can't see them as being something you'll need to dupe thulecite for ever, especially considering how often the Fuelweaver can be fought.

[Ezaroth]

1 minute ago, Sunset Skye said:

And then you use this thulecite for...?

The main uses for thulecite are just armor/crowns, walls, and amulets (1 of which is refuelable so you'll never need to craft more than an initial batch, the other is the lazy forager which you will not craft often at all), some of those things are nice but I can't see them as being something you'll need to dupe thulecite for ever, especially considering how often the Fuelweaver can be fought.

What's wrong with Thulecite weapons/armors, it's far better than a Morning Star.

[Canis]

Honestly, I say make it's damage output 100 per hit instead of 72. Then it would turn into a situational upgrade to the dark sword when Warly isn't around.

Also buff the 6 minute duration for the love of god.

[Maxil20]

1 hour ago, Ezaroth said:

What's wrong with Thulecite weapons/armors, it's far better than a Morning Star.

While the armor itself is good, I do not agree with the thulecite club being better then a morning star in terms of using the resources. The club is subpar, and not worth the thule at all. Considering that most players can hit higher damage modifiers now, the base damage you lose compared to the dark sword or other weapons gets pretty significant, especially when the tentacles do not get higher damage and are chance based. Combined with its meh durability and costly crafting, it makes it a pretty poor choice to use, especially with how the dark sword (and with the beta, the glass cutter) are obtained easier and are better. 

[Ezaroth]

10 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

While the armor itself is good, I do not agree with the thulecite club being better then a morning star in terms of using the resources. The club is subpar, and not worth the thule at all. Considering that most players can hit higher damage modifiers now, the base damage you lose compared to the dark sword or other weapons gets pretty significant, especially when the tentacles do not get higher damage and are chance based. Combined with its meh durability and costly crafting, it makes it a pretty poor choice to use, especially with how the dark sword (and with the beta, the glass cutter) are obtained easier and are better. 

How is Morning Star better than Thulecite Club? That's the whole point here. Morning Star doesn't benefit from Volt Goat Jelly while the club does. Don't compare it to a Dark Sword or other weapons.

[SonicDen220]

I still hope Klei acknowledges this as an issue. I'd prefer if they actually answered. This is still injustice which deserves to be dealt with.

[Scrimbles]

You COULD lead Volt goats away from their herd and hope for a 25% chance to drop a horn in order to craft an item that is only useful when enemies are wet, or you could just pick up some sticks off the ground and probably do better.

 

Such a bad item...