When Morning Stars Are Outclassed By a Spear :'(

[CameoAppearance]

Oh, yikes, I didn't realise the duration compared like that. I mean, I don't leave my Morning Stars equipped continuously when I'm not fighting so they last a lot longer for me than three-quarters of one day, but in a single marathon battle that takes more than 6 minutes that's another area where the Morning Star's been shown up. Not really a fan of that. There's no reason to bring one to a boss fight anymore, and they weren't that popular in the first place since the Dark Sword already had the boss fight melee weapon market cornered what with the more consistently high damage and more common ingredients. (All the more so now that Wormwood's in DST; previously you had to wait for treeguards or sacrifice only-renewable-during-Hallowed-Nights Totally Normal Trees.) What are they even for now, besides Electric Milk farming? They're not a good use of the horn for one big fight, and the horn is rare enough that carrying a Morning Star around for ordinary skirmishes in spring seems wasteful. I personally would still use one but at this point it'd be for aesthetic and sentimental reasons, which would get me yelled at by tryhards for inefficient use of resources.

I'd find this less objectionable if the jelly charge lasted half as long, because that would give the Morning Star the edge on duration. I've been in a few boss fights that lasted more than 6 IRL minutes, though not much more. Honestly I'm not sure if extending the lifespan of the Morning Star would be as good for balance as nerfing the duration of the electric jelly, because it's not often that you're in the same fight for 10-15 minutes without either your team or the boss dying. Upping its innate damage would be a nice alternative but I suppose that could tip things too far in the other direction.

I do agree that it's not worth a charge of a Deconstruction Staff to get the horn back, though. People do that with panflutes because mandrakes aren't renewable, but Volt Goats can be farmed. It's not easier to get green gems from the Dragonfly or Tumbleweed RNG Tomfoolery than to get a volt goat horn.

[TemporarySolutn]

On 7/26/2019 at 9:49 PM, lakhnish said:

it makes Morning Stars and Electric Darts worthless now

It doesnt make them useless and im not even sure why you would suggest that. They do electric damage without the jelly and the only time you'll ever have the jelly is if you have a Warly on your team. You just assume that they will always have a warly + the jelly + a wet target.

[lakhnish]

2 hours ago, JustCrimson said:

It doesnt make them useless and im not even sure why you would suggest that. They do electric damage without the jelly and the only time you'll ever have the jelly is if you have a Warly on your team. You just assume that they will always have a warly + the jelly + a wet target.

Electric Weapons get a 1.5 damage modifier just for being an Electrical Weapon (aka damage against Dry Targets), which jumps to a 2.5 damage modifier when targets are wet. This does not stack with the Morning Stars and Electric Darts as they already have it.

These are the damage modifiers that's occurring in the game for Morning Stars and Electric Darts, and for weapons under the effect of the Jelly, so that we are on the same page about "electric damage without the Jelly". I did not include the chili modifier for that reason (just multiply the number by 1.2).

Quote

Weapon	Base Damage	Electric Bonus aka Dry Target (1.5x)	Wetness Bonus (2.5x)
Axes	27.2	40.8	68
Morning Star	28.9	43.35	72.25
Spear	34	51	85
Battle Spear	42.5	63.75	106.25
Fresh Hambat	59.5	89.25	148.75
Dark Sword	68	102	170
Regular Darts	100	150	250
Electric Darts	60	90	150

The part about "the only time you'll ever have the jelly is if you have a Warly on your team" is simply not true. The Celestial Portal exists, allowing you to swap characters, be Warly, make your Jelly, and swap back (I've got nothing against this either), thus addressing the "Warly + Jelly" part of your comment. Shown here as a proof of concept (that's also not hard to do):

Spoiler

As for the wet target part: 

During Spring time, you can consistently control the wetness of the world via Moslings. Kill the mother Goose/Goose, let the Enraged Moslings chase you into the pen you made for them, close it, and now you have a rain machine for Spring. Just let them spin until they summon rain.

For Summer and Autumn, you can again control the wetness of the world via Telelocator Staves for a decent amount of time (as shown here), though it's understandable if you don't want to do that.

As for Winter in the caves, it's almost always perma-wet in the caves because of the low temperatures, making it an ideal time to (then) use Electrical Weapons and (now) use the Jelly against bosses such as Ancient Fuelweaver or Toadstool (even Misery), which I look forward to doing.

On 7/26/2019 at 9:49 PM, lakhnish said:

can something be done to deal with this damage disparity that the previously existing Electrical weapons now face due to the Jelly? 

^ That's all I'm requesting for as well.

On the dev stream, they raised the question of "Why should I eat this food [jelly] and not use those weapons [Morning Stars & Electric Darts]?" (for the increased damage). My response is this: if I have a Volt Goat Horn that's available, why should I opt for the Morning Star over the Jelly for that reason of the increased damage? (Others have provided better rebuttals).

Again, I don't have an issue with the Jelly itself, and of course if nothing happens, I'll adjust accordingly. This is me providing feedback to a change that was made in the game, and I encourage others to add to the discussion, even when they don't agree (as they have been doing).

They may end up doing nothing as well, which is the most likely course of action ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

[TemporarySolutn]

1 hour ago, lakhnish said:

• The part about "the only time you'll ever have the jelly is if you have a Warly on your team" is simply not true. The Celestial Portal exists, allowing you to swap characters, be Warly, make your Jelly, and swap back (I've got nothing against this either), thus addressing the "Warly + Jelly" part of your comment.

I dont think many people even know you can switch characters like this and I doubt many people care so its still a very valid point and even with the idol method thats still a purple gem and some moonrock for every time you want to make the jelly which might be usefull against bosses but you normally wouldnt use electric darts or the mourning star against them anyways

[YesterdaysMindr]

2 hours ago, JustCrimson said:

 thats still a purple gem and some moonrock for every time you want to make the jelly

I don't know how to break it to you, but neither of those items have many uses much more important.

Moon rock, outside of making moonlenses, is only useful for building walls (honestly needless since its "special effects" seem to be more PvP-based, and thulecite is easier to cheese (Unless you can do the dragon-scale turf trick on the moonrock wall item with the green staff. will have to test this.)

Outside of making a Shadow Manipulator (Often a one-time investment for most cases), its only other uses are the Bat Bat (extremely situational weapon), the nightmare amulet (usefulness is debatable, but you're probably not going to be running through them), the moonlens(for ocuvigil), and the telelocator staff/fueling telelocator focus (admittedly uses quite a lot of purple gems, but your mileage may vary)

 

Your main use for moonrocks outside of the idols would probably be making ocuvigils or *shudder* the lazy deserter, but the ocuvigil is only really useful if you expect to lose a lot of map progress or are getting new players.

Your main use for purple gems varies, but you'll probably spend a majority of them on either ocuvigils or making a telelocation network for boss cheesing.

[Axelocke]

"Well I heard there was a secret chord that David played and it pleased the lord. . ."

[Footman Crouch]

Well, even if morning stars get buffed, by the time you get bundling wrap, the copious amount of jelly and moon key, why are you still using it. There are better weapons, the mace is just mid tier goods.

roleplay? sure.

gameplay? eh, i take thulicite club anyday.

[TemporarySolutn]

11 hours ago, engiSonic said:

I don't know how to break it to you, but neither of those items have many uses much more important.

Moon rock, outside of making moonlenses, is only useful for building walls (honestly needless since its "special effects" seem to be more PvP-based, and thulecite is easier to cheese (Unless you can do the dragon-scale turf trick on the moonrock wall item with the green staff. will have to test this.)

Outside of making a Shadow Manipulator (Often a one-time investment for most cases), its only other uses are the Bat Bat (extremely situational weapon), the nightmare amulet (usefulness is debatable, but you're probably not going to be running through them), the moonlens(for ocuvigil), and the telelocator staff/fueling telelocator focus (admittedly uses quite a lot of purple gems, but your mileage may vary)

 

Your main use for moonrocks outside of the idols would probably be making ocuvigils or *shudder* the lazy deserter, but the ocuvigil is only really useful if you expect to lose a lot of map progress or are getting new players.

Your main use for purple gems varies, but you'll probably spend a majority of them on either ocuvigils or making a telelocation network for boss cheesing.

I guess I just play more casually than other so I never find myself with a whole lot of anything but sticks

Just now, JustCrimson said:

I guess I just play more casually than other so I never find myself with a whole lot of anything but sticks

(well sticks, gold, tenticle spikes, spider glands, silk, and mosquito sacks)

[SonicDen220]

On 31.07.2019 at 6:42 AM, lakhnish said:

On the dev stream, they raised the question of "Why should I eat this food [jelly] and not use those weapons [Morning Stars & Electric Darts]?"

Honestly, watching this feels like they think Morning Star is so OP that they ask it like "why would I eat the jelly when this exists". Are they really that oblivious to the fact that M-Star's base damage is so low where the electric multiplier is the only thing that makes it good to begin with?