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Pips planting rules are messed up


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So, it seems you have to kill anything else 5/6 squares away. You have to plant top-down if you do layers, etc. At the same time, there is zero indication what will work or were an issue is if it does not work. I feel this is completely messed up and far too opaque. I can appreciate having to debug a complex set-up when I code something, but there I will have tools to actually help me find the problems. Here I have nothing except trying it out. 

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are there a clear rule of how they plant? Like how far across each plant needs to be, or how many tiles needed per plant? I usually combine pips and nature reserve and in my current game, the pips in the max space natural reserve seems to have a maximum amount of plants that they will plant, including pepper plant. 

It seems that they would only plant up to a certain number of them in a max space natural reserve (120 tiles), around 8-10 plants of various species. 

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I think if they can't path to a valid planting spot, they'll move the seed a bit and drop it again.

The way I've been using pips is to build an enclosure around the area I want planted, build a storage compactor with ONLY the desired seeds, and wrangle in the oldest pip from my ranch.  Then let them plant wherever.  You can get a little more density if you force it into a 3:4 pattern by only exposing one plantable patch at a time, but that's too much micro for me.

Also, if pips start planting random crap at a spot in your base it means that's a good opportunity to drop a couple wild mealwood or mushrooms.

1 minute ago, nivodeus said:

are there a clear rule of how they plant? Like how far across each plant needs to be, or how many tiles needed per plant? I usually combine pips and nature reserve and in my current game, the pips in the max space natural reserve seems to have a maximum amount of plants that they will plant, including pepper plant. 

It seems that they would only plant up to a certain number of them in a max space natural reserve (120 tiles), around 8-10 plants of various species. 

A natural tile is plantable if there's no more than two other plants in a 13x13 area.  The tightest you can make it is 3 plants, 4 gaps, 3 plants, etc.

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55 minutes ago, thewreckedangle said:

they seem to try to plant things where there are already things too, meaning they rarely actually plant things! and they seem to NEVER plant the trees. :?

I've seen them try to plant things on constructed tile; they really need better optimization.
Trees they do occasionally plant, but usually they end up planting something else first, and when they do plant a tree, they decide to put something right next to it too a lot of the time.

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I believe this is still true:

On 7/14/2019 at 3:02 AM, snoozer said:

It´s also possible to encourage pips planting in a 3-3-3 pattern. It needs to be done from right to left.

Step1:

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Step2:

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Step3:

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Step4:

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and back to step2:

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Right to left, top to bottom. 

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Pips will plant if there are no more than two other plants in a 12x11 box (6 left, 5 up, 5 right, 5 down) from the TILE they are planting in to the ROOT of the other plants.

Most plants: plant right to left, top to bottom. You'll get the 3x3 pattern above, every 5 tiles vertically (4 height rooms, one tile flooring).

Upside-down plants: plant right to left, bottom to top.

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It was much more fun and reliable how it was before. If you're going to limit spacing, making it 6 tiles apart is way too much. You're basically saying "don't use this feature" to people. It's why most people ignore ranching. If a player thinks it's just not worth the trouble, why even have the feature?

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I think the devs are going for something that is useful, but never can be used as an exclusive option.  If you really want to rely on wild plants, you have to leave the plants where they were.  Pips are not a tool that lets you uproot everything and then relocate it to a more convenient place for free farming/cooling/oxygen.  They're something that lets you restore some of the plants or get a small scattered boost of free stuff.  You don't need wild plants at all to get by, so it isn't a problem if you choose to avoid using some features.

Making ranching more automatic and user friendly would be nice.  Though I don't think that conveniences with Pip replanting are that important.

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6 hours ago, nakomaru said:

Pips will plant if there are no more than two other plants in a 12x11 box (6 left, 5 up, 5 right, 5 down) from the TILE they are planting in to the ROOT of the other plants.

Most plants: plant right to left, top to bottom. You'll get the 3x3 pattern above, every 5 tiles vertically (4 height rooms, one tile flooring).

Upside plants: plant right to left, bottom to top.

Thanks for the details, I was apparently only counting 5 to the left.

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11 hours ago, thewreckedangle said:

they seem to NEVER plant the trees. :?

I've succeed to plant 6 trees in one room for natural reserve in the middle of my base without that much trouble (just have to deconstruct 8 or 9 plant pots, that I've rebuild after). Then I've succeed to plant 40 or 50 trees in the wild for free lumber. You should be doing something wrong.

5 hours ago, Xuhybrid said:

It was much more fun and reliable how it was before. If you're going to limit spacing, making it 6 tiles apart is way too much. You're basically saying "don't use this feature" to people. It's why most people ignore ranching. If a player thinks it's just not worth the trouble, why even have the feature?

The map is big. And it's free food/lumber. So having some constraints is logical.

I've no worries to build a vast wild trees installation. I've used a big free space for that. Then between the wild zones, after pip do there job of course to do not interfere, I've added domesticated trees. My area is deployed in line, and is alternating between wild and domesticated trees.

Pips were planting seeds quickly, and they were planting seeds where I expect those to be, since understanding even just a bit of the planting rules detailed by @nakomaru is enough if you anticipate.

 

Still in construction, still in cooling process, a bit anachic as I didn't plan everything as it is, but wild trees are there and some domesticated also.

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I've got pips to plant about 15 trees over my base during approx 20 cycles. I did not pay much attention to it, as I was focused mainly on projects that dupes did. What I can say is that they do not maintain distance between trees at all, and seem to even ignore the spacing rules when they plant trees. Also they are doing better if seeds are closer to places where they can plant. I think I will get them to replant once more, this time forcing proper spacing with tiles - trees with one tile spacing should in theory be able to grow their branches as they are now limited to 5 per tree, but in fact it seems that trees can't optimize for that.

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4 hours ago, OxCD said:

@nakomaru can you confirm the wild farm example into the wiki ? Wasn't it a setup before the pip planting rule nerf ?

That should work. When you plant the 4th plant (4th from right, top row) look to the right 5 tiles and count. It sees two plants. Eligible.

Same density as 3x3*, but better for trees post nerf. They will each have 5-6 eligible spots for branches.

*At infinite length. For real distances, 3x3 will be more dense due to the ends. (At 9 tiles, 3x3 has 6 plants, 1x1 has 5.)

Full disclosure, I haven't fully tested the current theory, but it matches all evidence provided by players.

By the way, the wiki describes the rules wrong (as expected?).

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1 hour ago, OxCD said:

@nakomaru can you confirm the wild farm example into the wiki ? Wasn't it a setup before the pip planting rule nerf ?

I wanted to make an oxygen room with oxyferna. Created a room. Pip sowed one oksifern, and then did not. I dug up wild mucoobs from above and below, and the process started. A couple more cycles and you're done. In general, it turns out that the pips sit either in one cell or in a row 3, then in a gap of 3 and again. 3 \ 3 can be used to create parks near the kitchen \ shower \ scientific room

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5 minutes ago, abud said:

I read now pips not only plant on dirt. Still limited by tile hardness? Wiki needs update.

As of current preview patch, they at least do not plant in Abyssalite, so I would guess hardness limited. They seem to plant in any natural tile that is not too hard though, not just dirt. 

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33 minutes ago, abud said:

I read now pips not only plant on dirt. Still limited by tile hardness? Wiki needs update.

Nop I've done some testing this week. My bad I didn't post it there.

I've confined dozens of pips with dozens of seed, into closed & separated rooms. I've made floors with all element I could think about, including metal ore, and miscellaneous, etc... Pip planted everywhere, except obsidian & abyssalite.

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I think it would be a lot more intuitive if pips could bury seeds anywhere without restrictions, but then have a type of “overcrowded” debuff on the wild plants if there are too many close together. Then you could send in a farmer to trim back some of the excess. 

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17 minutes ago, Muggins said:

I think it would be a lot more intuitive if pips could bury seeds anywhere without restrictions, but then have a type of “overcrowded” debuff on the wild plants if there are too many close together. Then you could send in a farmer to trim back some of the excess. 

And a lot more annoying. Wild pips would keep messing your wild farm erverytime you turn your back, you should have then to prison or kill them all. I highly prefer how it is actually.

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