Willow Refresh Info and Roadmap Schedule Update

[Wexton]

Just want to point out something for the people saying that Willow's fire inmunity its useless because of the scalemail.

Remember that Wortox its just a Webber with enough lazy explorers and healing items. And those things are WAAAY more powerful than fire inmunity and nobody complains about that.

[Nino123]

it's pefect, Klei. Thanks!

[_Ellat_]

11 hours ago, _Ellat_ said:

OKAY WILLOW REWORK IDEA 

-Willows lighter sets everything in blue flame that makes things burn 3 times faster

-Her blue flame deals 10dmg/s when mobs die because of willows flame they dont drop ashes but just their loot

Add this and she's good to go Imo @JoeW

Edit:Since people are sooo confused about this blue flame is a lot hotter then the red flame that would actually show that fire is willows advantage

 Ok here are my ideas:

-100% fire immunity

-She can heat other players (useful in winter)

-THUNDER GAUNTLET when crafted starts at 0% you can put it on the ground works like lightning rod and when struck by lightning it charges up to 100% has 40 uses and can shoot lightnings (I know its stupid but its just an idea)

-The blue flame thing yeah

[Nikki Darks]

Probs gonna be my final post. 

For all of you bandwagon non Willow mains.

You don't know how it feels to play Willow. You acting smart on the topic of a character you don't play is like me trying to decide all of the balancing for Wickerbottom, Wigfrid or Wolfgang. Just doesn't work. Willow mains want fire immunity, and what? We want a fun mechanic in the game, that's very unique and thematic, big deal? If Klei can't give us that 1 LINE OF CODE THAT'S LESS WORK THAN THE ACTUAL RESISTANCE, then I don't know what to tell you. Y'all can keep going on how you think fire immunity is this and that, but you'll never know how fun it is to use it as a Willow main, from our perspective so your opinion will never truly be, well, valuable. Cheerios friendos. o/

[Terra_Zina]

 Ok, so, like, most of the cool stuff was given to Bearnie. Willow is a character on herself, but with this 'refresh', she's not a character without Bearnie. She can't do any cool stuff, farms or strats without that bear. Which is, and I'm sorry to say, bad design.

Willow needs to be more independent. Willow was a girl scout as a kid, lived completely alone without Bearnie before meeting the others for god knows how long. She's perfectly capable of taking care of herself, but this update doesn't reflect this. Now she's more like a 'orphan girl with a spooky bear' rather than a 'firestarter who found her buddy'.

Basically, she needs to be a strong independent woman that needs no bear.

So, how about we prolong that 'immunity' a little?

Not that much. But, like, not double, not triple. But

How about... Infinite seconds?

Fire immunity

We want fire immunity

[GorilaInvisible]

First of all, HI!

I see no issue with Willow depending on Bernie or Bernie being the "focus" of the update. 

Don't say "Willow is useless without Bernie", basically the same thing can be said about most part of the characters.
"Wickerbottom is nothing without her books, Winona is nothing without her catapults, Wendy is nothing without Abigail" and so on... So I think that argument is not valid.

We must think, since its a survival multiplayer game, on how she can help the others to survive. The actual update seems good but it makes Willow sound more like a "Solo" character. I understand, as fire related stuff is a double-edged sword for everyone is hard to balance, so, I'll let the fire related stuff aside for a moment.

On 25/4/2019 at 3:23 PM, JoeW said:

• Bernie grows big and will taunt and fight most hostile creatures when Willow is nearby and insane.
• Bernie will still taunt Shadow Creatures when any other player is nearby and insane.

Seems like Bernie will only fight for willow and no other teammates. Why not making Bernie fight for the others as well? I think that will fill the "helping others" aspect of the game.

Now, talking about the character itself, I think the new changes fill the "I'm a pyromaniac" aspect of the caracter, since she's resistant to fire damage, gains sanity from fire and so on.

The only change I would like to be in the game is that fire-related objects (fire staff, gunpowder, etc) are more effective for willow. Maybe they'll last longer (in case of torches and fire staffs) and deal more damage (in case of gunpowder).

As a conclusion, I think the character "refresh" is fine in general, it just needs a few adjustments. And please, if you're reading this, be more respectful to the Devs. They do not deserve all this rage-y comments. 

I'm a willow main by the way. Hope you find my comment useful and sorry if I mispell something.

[4 Da LOLs]

17 hours ago, blacknight7890 said:

Good lord, people are still arguing about the fire immunity? If you all think it's that damn good, then just get scalemail. It's literally the same thing, and anyone can wear it. Just wear it as Willow and all those "cool fun things" y'all say she should be able to do can be done.

In fact, let's go down some of the suggestions I have seen and try to find what scalemail can do for you without Willow full immunity to fire.

"Reasons" that Willow should be fully immune again:

• Make bosses and enemies that use fire easier to fight: Scalemail can do that.
• Protecting yourself when using fire in combat: Scalemail can do that.
• Gaining a lot of sanity as Willow very quickly: Scalemail can do that.
• Running through forest fires with ease: Scalemail can do that.
• Anything within 100 square miles of relation to fire damage: Scalemail can do that.

And if getting the scales are that hard, then Willow has this very special perk unique to her that makes the fight easier, even without a lot of prep. In the upcoming rework, Willow will get a special perk that can help you greatly, this unique perk makes her completely immune to fire for several seconds when exposed to flame and you will take far less damage from fire after the timer is up. With this unique and balanced perk, you will have a much easier time dealing with the fire as Willow than any other character, and should be able to get those scales much easier than any other character. Luckily you won't be exposed to the flame long enough that your immunity runs out, and even if it does, you will take far less damage than others would, which is compounded with the time you took no damage at all, adding up to a conclusion that the fire in the fight is almost a non issue. All you need is enough defensive, offensive, and healing items to beat the boss, and the scales are as good as yours. With them you can do all the things you all wanted to use the immunity for as Willow.

 Hell, she can do all the things listed above even without the current rework. Yes, everything you all want her immunity for can be done right now in the most recent released version of the game, and even long before that, with scalemail. 

So please stop arguing about it, because you can do all the things you all desperately want to do, so long as you are able to kill one boss, that is available year round, and can be cheesed to hell and back. I hope that's not too much to ask from you all.

tl;dr: Use Scalemail.

THEN WHY Y'ALL PLAY WORTOX JUST GO WX-78 AND RUSH RUINS FOR  A LAZY EXPLORER THEN USE THE MEAT FOR JERKY TO MIMIC THE HEALS WHAT Y'ALL DOING!?!?!?!

in all seriousness i would love to watch you kill dfly in a pub make a scalemail a arguably useless item (for the work to get it)

then all the other players seeing the fact you wasted such a kill then immediately get banned

at the point you have to go through all that for something so small you might as well play another character while wearing the mail

 

your argument has been defused

 

[Pop Guy]

7 hours ago, Terra_Zina said:

 Ok, so, like, most of the cool stuff was given to Bearnie. Willow is a character on herself, but with this 'refresh', she's not a character without Bearnie. She can't do any cool stuff, farms or strats without that bear. Which is, and I'm sorry to say, bad design.

Willow needs to be more independent. Willow was a girl scout as a kid, lived completely alone without Bearnie before meeting the others for god knows how long. She's perfectly capable of taking care of herself, but this update doesn't reflect this. Now she's more like a 'orphan girl with a spooky bear' rather than a 'firestarter who found her buddy'.

Basically, she needs to be a strong independent woman that needs no bear.

So, how about we prolong that 'immunity' a little?

Not that much. But, like, not double, not triple. But

How about... Infinite seconds?

Fire immunity

We want fire immunity

How much truth
Make Willow great again!

[blacknight7890]

8 hours ago, 4 Da LOLs said:

THEN WHY Y'ALL PLAY WORTOX JUST GO WX-78 AND RUSH RUINS FOR  A LAZY EXPLORER THEN USE THE MEAT FOR JERKY TO MIMIC THE HEALS WHAT Y'ALL DOING!?!?!?!

in all seriousness i would love to watch you kill dfly in a pub make a scalemail a arguably useless item (for the work to get it)

then all the other players seeing the fact you wasted such a kill then immediately get banned

at the point you have to go through all that for something so small you might as well play another character while wearing the mail

 

your argument has been defused

You misunderstand the argument, yes, scalemail is a mostly useless item, as mostly useless as fire immunity itself, which is exactly why willow doesn't need fire immunity. That is what I am arguing, it's not an argument for scalemail, but rather, its an argument that anything they want full 100% 24/7 fire immunity for can be done with current mechanics that exist in the game right now without sacrificing multiplayer balance, by using scalemail.

Also if you are playing on a server you should be able to damage the dragonfly enough that she drops additional scales, some of which could be spared for some armor. ^{or just make flooring and use the deconstruction staff to get an endless supply.}

[Spep]

2 hours ago, blacknight7890 said:

You misunderstand the argument, yes, scalemail is a mostly useless item, as mostly useless as fire immunity itself, which is exactly why willow doesn't need fire immunity. That is what I am arguing, it's not an argument for scalemail, but rather, its an argument that anything they want full 100% 24/7 fire immunity for can be done with current mechanics that exist in the game right now without sacrificing multiplayer balance, by using scalemail.

Also if you are playing on a server you should be able to damage the dragonfly enough that she drops additional scales, some of which could be spared for some armor. ^{or just make flooring and use the deconstruction staff to get an endless supply.}

can you explain how fire immunity is mystically overpowered compared to other characters, like webber, nigh endless spider drops + hound protection is already in the game, and you do not see people complaining en masse about him, how could fire immunity possibly cross the line to absolutely broken territory? 

first off, the ol greifing argument that got it removed in the first place, fire immunity has been, and will be, negligable in terms of greifing, since greifers do not need to care much about keeping themselves alive, losing half your health from burning some poor saps base is difficult and quite negligable, as the greifer has already done what they wanted to do.

second off, the scalemail argument, this has about as much weight as using a lazy explorer instead of wortox, has durability, is difficult to get for most of the game without doing things right COUGH COUGH wolfgang dfly rush COUGH, and inhibits the use of things like the backpack, plus, if you are gonna get scalemail, why be willow at all? why not just be anybody else? oh right, that's exactly what is happening currently, and will likely continue to be post update after the initial hype if the current changes go through.

do not take this as me expressly wishing for fire immunity, all i wish, along with many others,  is that willow becomes a enjoyable character that gives a reason to pick, wendy has a veritable bodygaurd, webber has spiders, wolfgang has stronk, maxwell has puppets, woodie has beaver, winona has catapults/spotlights, wicker has books, wes has balloons, what will willow have post update if the changes go through? various things that nobody will notice, or care about, a inferior torch, that doubles as a inferior campfire, and a bear thats probably gonna get a cease and desist letter from abigail, remember, willow is the firestarter, not the bear wrangler.

TL:DR, if you are arguing that a item that anybody can make and use should be used to replace a main perk of a character, clearly something has gone terribly wrong.

[Kevinlhk]

i think she can have a discount for crafting in light and some survival stuff (since she used to be a girl scout)

Since Kiel want to make the character unique (fire immunty) and helpful (with those mentioned perk she can help other at start)

So what do you think ?

[maradyne]

I mean, credit where credit is due, most people who can kill Dfly can probably ruins rush for a Lazy Explorer with about as much effort, less risk, and more likelihood to actually succeed without teammates or specifically choosing your starting character based on that decision; I know I can do it with any character. But that doesn't mean that Wortox shouldn't have been made; having access to that kind of power early game (the only part of the game that a lot of players will ever even see) is fun.

I'm not even really for or against full fire immunity since it won't affect my strat, but given that Klei has already embraced easy crazy power levels with Winona's update and reusing gameplay elements that many players will never even reach otherwise with Wortox's release, and nothing resembling actual PvP balance ever being in this game...the current arguments against fire immunity seem to kinda...fall flat.
 

Heck, I'm kinda hoping that Wolfgang's current perks get reused in a lesser form as an item, and he gets more interesting ones.
...hey, what's that glow off in the distance? Looks kinda like a bunch of torches. Ooh, are those pitchforks? Turfing party? Yay!

[GetRektKids]

On 4/25/2019 at 5:38 PM, Zarklord said:

lol no, if that would have "broken the game" you need to get better at the game.

It would break the game you absolutely dip, infinite light? Really? I hope you know I can go 60+ days without dying, but do you know what gets me? Darkness, I die because I forget to get a light. But early game it would be overpowered to the people who die from the night mainly on like day 3. It would be overpowered you absolutely scrap

On 4/25/2019 at 5:51 PM, x0VERSUS1y said:

Fire immunity and Bernie luring-in ALL types of Shadow Monsters (including Ruins ones) while Willow is insane should be the main thing to get her really up there with re-worked Winona.

PS: plus infinite-durability lighter while in Willow's use as well pls.

Infinite lighter would be overpowered sir scrapes alot

[maradyne]

Not entirely sure what that last one meant, but uh...
I do vouch for infinite lighter just because that would make it an appealing option. I barely even use the thing as Willow as-is; there are better long-duration light options and the cooking aspect just seems wasteful toward its durability.

[Nikki Darks]

1 hour ago, GetRektKids said:

It would break the game you absolutely dip, infinite light? Really? I hope you know I can go 60+ days without dying, but do you know what gets me? Darkness, I die because I forget to get a light. But early game it would be overpowered to the people who die from the night mainly on like day 3. It would be overpowered you absolutely scrap

Infinite lighter would be overpowered sir scrapes alot

If darkness is the thing that gets you, you really need to get better at the game, no offense. Also the fact that everyone threw away the lighter in DS as soon as they could get a lantern proves how horrible it is due to its very short light radius. o/

[Maxposting]

i don't care about any fire.

willow is hot as heck anyways uwu

im pretty sure klei can do willow rework pretty nicely with 80-90% players being satisfied

[4 Da LOLs]

4 hours ago, GetRektKids said:

It would break the game you absolutely dip, infinite light? Really? I hope you know I can go 60+ days without dying, but do you know what gets me? Darkness, I die because I forget to get a light. But early game it would be overpowered to the people who die from the night mainly on like day 3. It would be overpowered you absolutely scrap

Infinite lighter would be overpowered sir scrapes alot

1 dieing of darkness can be remedied by a torch

2 even in DS Classic most yeet the lighter when they gain a lantern or some when they have a torch

[GenomeSquirrel]

was i the only one who kept the lighter for the infinite sanity increase?

[4 Da LOLs]

10 hours ago, blacknight7890 said:

You misunderstand the argument, yes, scalemail is a mostly useless item, as mostly useless as fire immunity itself, which is exactly why willow doesn't need fire immunity. That is what I am arguing, it's not an argument for scalemail, but rather, its an argument that anything they want full 100% 24/7 fire immunity for can be done with current mechanics that exist in the game right now without sacrificing multiplayer balance, by using scalemail.

Also if you are playing on a server you should be able to damage the dragonfly enough that she drops additional scales, some of which could be spared for some armor. ^{or just make flooring and use the deconstruction staff to get an endless supply.}

that still is defused by my post above

anyone can use scalemail meaning no one should play Willow for all could do her job easier thats not balance

you say mostly useless yet that means you see some use in it no?

something not useful enough to kill a boss for but still has practical use?

Just now, GenomeSquirrel said:

was i the only one who kept the lighter for the infinite sanity increase?

same

[Spirit Glow]

On 4/28/2019 at 9:23 AM, Nikki Darks said:

Probs gonna be my final post. 

For all of you bandwagon non Willow mains.

You don't know how it feels to play Willow. You acting smart on the topic of a character you don't play is like me trying to decide all of the balancing for Wickerbottom, Wigfrid or Wolfgang. Just doesn't work. Willow mains want fire immunity, and what? We want a fun mechanic in the game, that's very unique and thematic, big deal? If Klei can't give us that 1 LINE OF CODE THAT'S LESS WORK THAN THE ACTUAL RESISTANCE, then I don't know what to tell you. Y'all can keep going on how you think fire immunity is this and that, but you'll never know how fun it is to use it as a Willow main, from our perspective so your opinion will never truly be, well, valuable. Cheerios friendos. o/

I play her mostly in DS now because i just like her playstyle much more there. As much as i like Bernie, putting so much of Willow's refresh into the bear makes me feel like Klei doesn't think she is interesting enough to explore other avenues. Considering she is the "Fire Starter" i think they might as well change her title to "Teddy Bear Girl" cuz that is what she is gonna be now. Her lighter would def have been a decent place to explore her refresh. As for Fire Immunity, i have yet to see a single logical argument as to why it should not be implemented. It synergizes well into her kit and I would go as far as saying that most Willow mains would like to see it return.

[Terribad]

What Willow needs more than anything is a mechanic that makes it rewarding to be a little pyro, just like she is. To be her own perfect self. I believe giving her an aura which makes items on the ground near her immune to burning would do just this, I think this aura should also suppress smoldering when she gets close (without action), but not extinguish burning.

First, this makes her have an active skill built around how fire works in game play

Second, this forces her into the action, making her wan to use her 6 seconds of full fire 

Third it prioritizes starting random fires to accomplish little tasks inside your world.

I would use this for farming spiders and pigs in the evergreen biome. I would use it to set up fire farms which make use of her aura. I would use it in summer anti-thematically, but what harm is that really.

I get to the hesitation on fire immunity, in that it would lead to a myopic play, and it would make too many fun challenges seem underwhelming and cheesy.

I'm not a Willow main. I main wicker because she is actually fun to play, her mechanics make her a blast. But I think something like this aura might make Willow fun.

I also think it would be neat is, if she goes super-insane it turns into a smoldering aura, which would be fun for all sorts of reasons. 

I think this makes Willow on par with WX and Wicker from a fun and balance standpoint. 

[zarklord_klei]

15 hours ago, GetRektKids said:

It would break the game you absolutely dip, infinite light? Really? I hope you know I can go 60+ days without dying, but do you know what gets me? Darkness, I die because I forget to get a light. But early game it would be overpowered to the people who die from the night mainly on like day 3. It would be overpowered you absolutely scrap

Infinite lighter would be overpowered sir scrapes alot

in order for something to be OP, in needs to be gamebreaking for the "top 1%" of players, which generally has a trickledown effect onto everyone else, something can't be OP for the "mid 50%", that just means its "okay".
 

also, not trying to be a try hard, but you need to git gud, darkness is harder to die to than starving, and everybody thinks thats a joke.
edit: also a second thing, unless you can survive infinity days, you can't be making comments on if something is OP, even if your not rushing ruins, you should still never die, this is a fairly easy game.

[MrDeepDarkmind]

4 hours ago, Zarklord said:

git gud

all I need to hear

[Kaira]

Read around for a bit, had another lil ol thought. Im not sure if this, uh, fits in with Klei's plans but I thought it sounded kinda neat:

Insanity fires! Like, not fires while insane but actual figments of her broken mental state. o w o
When insane, she'd spawn fake fires like.. mm this might be hard to code.. - fires similar to her past iterations when insane. These fires behave like typical, heating and spreading, but they won't actually burn down structures or items. Sane players either dont see the fires or see them as a small beacon like a warm stone (may or may not provide light) but other low sanity players can see and be effected by the ghost fires.

The world's burning down around her òwó

[Irvanz]

All off this kind of thing is good but yeah there is no special perk that make Willow Stand out  from other and for fire immunity my answer is No