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Willow Refresh Info and Roadmap Schedule Update

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Well-met    1,384
9 minutes ago, Shpee said:

 

first off, you said absolutely nothing about wilson here, second off, its not "why should i pick wilson over this" its "why should i pick this over the other characters"

Beard aside, wilson is the core standard to balance around. He's the flavorless, basic, jack-of-all-trades class. Giving a downside to another character with their own handful of special perks is what prevents this new build from overshadowing the basic class (and keep the latter viable). If you look to give downsides to a character, you ask yourself why would you ever pick the basic class over this new character.

From a power play perspective, there's zero reason to pick wilson over wino or wortox. Hence why I'm pointing out this is likely what's gonna happen to all other chars. This is probably Klei's plan to make every character have almost no downside and instead make them all powerful/useful within their own niches. So far I agree this new Willow isn't exactly outstanding but there's still alot of revisions coming.

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Canis    9,951
3 minutes ago, FuffledBeeQueen said:

- Yeah and burn the entire world in the process, nice work

- You still have a few seconds of fire immunity before losing it...

- You still have a few seconds of fire immunity before losing it...

-You still have a few seconds of fire immuntiy before losing it...

- That literally is just a waste of time

- You have most likely enough seconds of fire immunity to escape the Red Gem's Fury

You see this list literally get canceled by the fact that Willow has Temporary Fire Immunity, and if you are out of it? just walk away and return... Im p. sure it will instantly reset and wont be on a 1 day worth of cooldown. All this has immunity but loses it after a few seconds means you can't persistently stay ontop of fire sources, but if you just walk away and return you will literally be fine... Stop overexadurating the fact that she needs pernament Fire Immunity, there's literally nothing that does force you to stand in Fire for longer than a few seconds...

No.

-You can choose where to use fire, you aren't being *forced* to use it in the middle of a forest.

-Sanity Gain is based off of how close the fire is, and the max is when Willow is right on top of it. Dipping in and out of this is impractical.

-Being caught on fire by Larvae/Lava Pools lasts longer than 3 seconds (Willow's current fire immunity) and you'll start taking a good amount of damage before it wears off.

-Same as above.

-Fire damage stacks, and during late game it can be extremely powerful. Also going by your logic, we could say that every type of late-game item is a waste of time if you can just football helm/dark sword things away.

-Meh.

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zVince    1,708

I think a flamethrower in place of the lighter would be nice. 

ZleFpFI.png

 

Joking apart. I loved the Rework. It didn't make she so strong, not so weak, let's say balanced. In relation to a time of immunity to fire, I think fair, why someone would stay be more than 6 seconds in the fire? (do not know if it is that time even) 

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Canis    9,951
1 minute ago, zVince said:

I think a flamethrower in place of the lighter would be nice. 

ZleFpFI.png

 

Joking apart. I loved the Rework. It didn't make she so strong, not so weak, let's say balanced. In relation to a time of immunity to fire, I think fair, why someone would stay be more than 6 seconds in the fire? (do not know if it is that time even) 

Why would someone be *against* immunity and not 6 seconds? I don't see anyone saying why immunity is bad.

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Shpee    531
1 minute ago, Hell-met said:

Beard aside, wilson is the core standard to balance around. He's the flavorless, basic, jack-of-all-trades class. Giving a downside to another character with their own handful of special perks is what prevents this new build from overshadowing the basic class (and keep the latter viable). If you look to give downsides to a character, you ask yourself why would you ever pick the basic class over this new character.

From a power play perspective, there's zero reason to pick wilson over wino or wortox. Hence why I'm pointing out this is likely what's gonna happen to all other chars. So far I agree this new Willow isn't exactly outstanding but there's still alot of revisions coming.

i should note that wilson IS getting a rework, yes, really, they did say that every character was getting one, so once that rolls around we likely wont have him as a jack of all trades, that aside, just because wilson is the "core standard" does not mean that we should be balancing around him, we should be balancing around the game, all other characters included, if these changes go through, willow will be weak, but more importantly, boring, wilson as a base character is the newbie bait, can survive winter easier, no downsides, he is fine as he is, but boring, so not many people play him, the point of these reworks is to get the meta more equal, but mainly to get people trying out diffrent characters, aslong as its intresting, who cares if another is stronger? thats the issue, willow is weak AND boring, so nobody past the die hard mains will want to play her, newbies will likely hop onto the more intresting characters, and more skilled players will not want to play the weak, unintresting character.

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Well-met    1,384
3 minutes ago, Shpee said:

i should note that wilson IS getting a rework, yes, really, they did say that every character was getting one, so once that rolls around we likely wont have him as a jack of all trades, that aside, just because wilson is the "core standard" does not mean that we should be balancing around him, we should be balancing around the game, all other characters included, if these changes go through, willow will be weak, but more importantly, boring, wilson as a base character is the newbie bait, can survive winter easier, no downsides, he is fine as he is, but boring, so not many people play him, the point of these reworks is to get the meta more equal, but mainly to get people trying out diffrent characters, aslong as its intresting, who cares if another is stronger? thats the issue, willow is weak AND boring, so nobody past the die hard mains will want to play her, newbies will likely hop onto the more intresting characters, and more skilled players will not want to play the weak, unintresting character.

you aren't interested in balance and you aren't happy with this new Willow.

got it thanks.

ps love the avatar

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Shpee    531
Just now, Hell-met said:

you aren't interested in balance and you aren't happy with this new Willow.

got it thanks.

oooooook, not even gonna try to argue against me there? sounds like your argument did not have enough legs to stand on there, il take that as a success, keep your opinion if you wish, but next time try to actually argue.

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blacknight7890    265

 

22 minutes ago, FuffledBeeQueen said:

- Yeah and burn the entire world in the process, nice work

- You still have a few seconds of fire immunity before losing it...

- You still have a few seconds of fire immunity before losing it...

-You still have a few seconds of fire immuntiy before losing it...

- That literally is just a waste of time

- You have most likely enough seconds of fire immunity to escape the Red Gem's Fury

You see this list literally get canceled by the fact that Willow has Temporary Fire Immunity, and if you are out of it? just walk away and return... Im p. sure it will instantly reset and wont be on a 1 day worth of cooldown. All this has immunity but loses it after a few seconds means you can't persistently stay ontop of fire sources, but if you just walk away and return you will literally be fine... Stop overexadurating the fact that she needs pernament Fire Immunity, there's literally nothing that does force you to stand in Fire for longer than a few seconds...

Related image

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SightKeeper    298

Thank you so much for all your hard work, Klei team! And please, please take all the time you need, as the health of your group should always come first - it's heartening to see your deadlines relax a bit, though even the current projected timeline is still an impressive goalpost! I really look forward to what's to come, and thank you for taking the time to make sure the quality of the game and the well-being of your work force come first!

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seffard    145

Willow is one of my favorite chars and Im ok with this rework. But I would be happy if there was an active combat perk, not only passives like fire immunity and resistance. Something that would fit her pyrokinesis:

-Make her cast fire from a fire source when she overheats, so that she conditionally becomes a living fire staff at her health cost. 

I expect "several seconds" and fire resistance to be a bit more than what's been set. It would be nice to optimize the lighter's durability for cooking, maybe 0,5%  for each cook from the current 1%.

I wonder if bernie's warmth will add to other fire sources and warm her faster. That would be nice too.

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Well-met    1,384
4 minutes ago, Shpee said:

oooooook, not even gonna try to argue against me there? sounds like your argument did not have enough legs to stand on there, il take that as a success, keep your opinion if you wish, but next time try to actually argue.

I've explained it all already. Why continue polluting the thread?

You were the one triggered by my post, remember? regardless It's clear you're more upset at Klei than you are at me.

Quote

did not have enough legs to stand on there

like that gorge bug I assume. Lmao.

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NSAiswatchingus    2,290

The Willow changes sound cool. Total fire immunity seems like it would be OP. DST isn't an 'uncompromising' as DS so I think it's okay that she isn't as "powerful" as her DS counterpart. 

As for the content push back, I'm a little heart broken knowing the new content won't hit consoles until at least late June. The silver lining is I get more time to play in my current world before I roll up a new one. 

y'all got any more of them twitch skins though? 

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The 2C3D    582

This is a friendly reminder that sewing kits fully restore Bernie.

Also there’s no need to go nuclear over what exactly happens when Willow stands in fire for seven continuous seconds.

I can’t imagine what the poor people at Klei must be thinking right now, like, this is saltier then the in-game chat when a level 1 quick-matches into a 20+ Forge server. 

‘Twould be nice if her lighter didn’t degrade in her hand, though. I’m one of those people who can’t bring themself to use resources.

seriously though I’ve been playing Hollow Knight and I won’t even use ONE of my 3000+ essence to dream-gate. I have a problem.

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Shpee    531
1 minute ago, Hell-met said:

I've explained it all already. Why continue polluting the thread?

You were the one triggered by my post, remember? regardless It's clear you're more upset at Klei than you are at me.

like that gorge bug I assume. Lmao.

first off, again, it is not polluting if it is on topic, we are perfectly on topic, i have given my argument, that being that the rework does not make willow a powerful or intresting character to play as, thus it requires to be rethought, you have been defending said rework, saying that it is balanced to characters such as wilson, and i gave my argument back, speaking of most of the new upsides, and the downside, showing why they are either weak, negligable, or unneeded, the fact that you diverge from this argument, and likely did not even bother to read what i said in the wall of text post previous, shows that your argument does not stand up to mine, if you wish to continue this, please read my previous posts and create tangible arguments against, thank you and good day.

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The 2C3D    582

How does Shpee even type this fast?

Edit: nvm, one of the two messages that were 3 minutes apart was two lines. I’m guilty by my own logic, lol.

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GenomeSquirrel    554
23 minutes ago, FreyaMaluk said:

NOW, Bernie:

He will be much more useful in everyday situations regardless of fire. I think they are pretty much basing Bernie with some Forge elements. He is pretty much gonna work as a Bodyguard aggroing mobs.. not only shadows and attacking them as well

 I believe this is a great idea that can make Willow independent.. she probably can now help with some spider farming too.. and in general much more useful in everyday survival

 

for the cold winter days she won't be needing to be fire immune standing on top of fires or lava pools to stay warm...  or gain sanity...

 This could pretty much compensate the use or winter hats and kinda outclasses fire immunity for winter times IMO... thermal + bernie new willow winter meta

 

As much as I would enjoy fire immunity I realize that having a bodyguard Bernie might be a good change into another direction... he could probably be useful in the caves taunting shadow monkeys for farming too.. dunno Bernie stats to assert this at the moment.. Just throwing some ideas..

So,,, maybe asking for fire immunity is just resistance to change the focus to something else entirely that has very few niche benefits?

but that's already Abigail's job ... I'm not getting excited over redundancy

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MrDeepDarkmind    436
On 4/25/2019 at 5:59 PM, NSAiswatchingus said:

The Willow changes sound cool. Total fire immunity seems like it would be OP. DST isn't an 'uncompromising' as DS so I think it's okay that she isn't as "powerful" as her DS counterpart. 

your telling me that sounds OP when like we have a robot who gets a speed boost 100+ health on thunderstrike and a AoE of light who can also UPGRADE HIMSELF TO BECOME A TANK

then we have a fat man who get stronk man by eating foodies 

(kind of titled how the person below me has more likes when I legit said the same thing)

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Mr.Mulk    1,164
21 minutes ago, NSAiswatchingus said:

The Willow changes sound cool. Total fire immunity seems like it would be OP. DST isn't an 'uncompromising' as DS so I think it's okay that she isn't as "powerful" as her DS counterpart. 

As for the content push back, I'm a little heart broken knowing the new content won't hit consoles until at least late June. The silver lining is I get more time to play in my current world before I roll up a new one. 

y'all got any more of them twitch skins though? 

2X damage and a 25% movement speed bonus with 300 HP: Totally balanced

A whole class of items that are extremely powerful locked to one character for crafting and a free crafting tier: Totally balanced

A robot who can upgrade to having 400 hp, 300 sanity, and 200 hunger, and has overcharge for a massive movement speed bonus, light, and heat: Totally balanced

Fire Immunity on a character who previously had it: Completely OP

HMMMMMMMMM

Not trying to be rude (no ill will is intended) but I think fire immunity is the least to be concerned about being "OP"

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Canis    9,951

And on top of @MrDeepDarkmind and @Mr.Mulk's posts we have:

-Fully automated catapults able to make boss slaying a mundane task.

-A character that can heal an infinite amount of HP by killing very very weak mobs.

-Books that generate a near-infinite amount of food and can be used multiple times, along with it not being hard to craft.

But we draw the line at fire immunity? Why?

 

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Chris1448    13,014
24 minutes ago, NSAiswatchingus said:

Total fire immunity seems like it would be OP.

no it aint

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