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Allergies the only medical issue that kills dupe now


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Allergy pills take one blossom seed to make, I always make 5 planters around the dupe/item generator, so at first things seemed fine.

 

My one allergic dupe got his medication, but he was using the blossom seeds faster than I was generating them.

 

So I ran out, resulting in him getting a stress and sneezing debuf, that means if he try to use a massage table he will sneeze himself of it, so he is going to get 100% stress and he was a vomiter, so he vomited himself to death.

 

My first ever death in ONI, only took 1710 hours.

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Allergy is so obviously terrible I don't see why would anyone pick a dupe with it except to check it out.

It's clearly down there with narcoleptic, flatulent, no-dig, no-build, and anemic on the list of "never ever take, even if dupe has 3 good traits".

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18 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

Allergy is so obviously terrible I don't see why would anyone pick a dupe with it except to check it out.

It's clearly down there with narcoleptic, flatulent, no-dig, no-build, and anemic on the list of "never ever take, even if dupe has 3 good traits".

Is narcoleptic that bad? I usually have a couple haha

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Flatulent isn’t quite that bad. I took one, not knowing what it meant in practical terms, and I the only real consequence was that I had one stray packet of gas in a farm which moved around, interfering with plant growth. That was annoying, but pretty minor compared to something that blocks actions all the time like “no dig.”

If you’re building a structure that requires vacuum, all flatulent does is make a gas pump run a little longer to create the vacuum. Assigning door permissions so flatulent dupes can’t do maintenance in vacuum structures isn’t so bad. In practice I never thought about that, and my flatulent dupe did tasks inside my metal volcano containment, and I didn’t suffer any negative consequences.

There are many negative traits that are effectively null, like “no cooking,” so flatulent is definitely worse than those, but I wouldn’t treat it as “never take” the way I would narcoleptic, no dig, no build, or anemic. Actually, I’d put “noodle arms” on that list too, since everyone ends up carrying stuff on a regular basis. Jobs that don’t involve hauling like research are pretty much part time.

I think the main argument against taking an Allergic dupe is not the drawbacks. I think you can avoid those easily enough by having a strict “no flowers in the base, anywhere” policy. No, it’s that a “no flowers” policy denies the rest of your dupes a decent buff, and that’s a pretty wide ranging consequence.

I suppose you could restrict an allergic Dupe to a small part of your base via door permissions. I’ve never gotten the hang of compartmentalizing my colony that way.

12 minutes ago, Junksteel said:

Is narcoleptic that bad? I usually have a couple haha

It’s not absolutely debilitating, but it’s pretty serious drawback that never goes away. Narcoleptic dupes are always going to be crippled compared to Dupes with most other drawbacks.

Anemic, in contrast, is very bad initially, but eventually gets wiped out by athletic gains. I’ve taken anemic dupes because I didn’t know any better, and I wouldn’t do it again, but it’s a problem that can be overcome.

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14 minutes ago, Junksteel said:

Is narcoleptic that bad? I usually have a couple haha

It's not that bad, heck, it also has its merit apart from that apparently it adds an initial bonus attribute point wherever (only 5 other negative traits do and those are "Can not do Build/Dig/Aid/Cook/Research"). Namely one technically can deduct one bar (25s) of sleep since they sleep on average 30s per cycle additionally. Otherwise, one might as well take it as little quick stress relief since sleeping is, next to massages (which also include sleep), the best stress relief.

I'd say it is an inconvenience on the level of flatulence and not worth an instant rejection. Rather, unless changed with the upcoming skill system (or was it now called attribute, and apart from the effect on the meta with separate morale penalties), Yokel is terrible due to blocking the research jobs and consequently not allowing duplicants to get any learning attribute points, slowing down the gains for i.e athletics long term, technically making it worse than anemic, if anemic was just -3 that is.

 

Now I am not entirely sure why vomiting does kill dupes now but if indeed the counter is not viable (in terms of cost and time), then I will also likely refrain from taking any allergic dupes since I see "Floral Scent" not only as neat stress relief but also as "Counter Germs". If I am not mistaken then no two disease can exist on the same tile, so even if there is Polluted Oxygen and stray Slimelung, the plants may very well overwhelm it at least wherever clean Oxygen is, greatly reducing risks.

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5 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said:

Yokel is terrible due to blocking the research jobs and consequently not allowing duplicants to get any learning attribute points, slowing down the gains for i.e athletics long term

Could you explain this a bit more? Because my experience was that most Dupes don’t end up doing research, regardless of traits. There are only a limited number of research tasks, and actively trying to ensure they get spread between your Dupes seems difficult.

There’s also the issue of Dupes you take after you research all non-space tech. They’re not going to do any research for a long, long time, since building a working space program takes a while, and you reach the end of non-space research long before you start seriously exploiting the surface.

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3 minutes ago, Gus Smedstad said:

Could you explain this a bit more?

It's rather simple, the research job/skills net each +2 Learning, meaning +6 in total. Making it +60% increased skill (or attribute) gain. 

A Yokel can not take those jobs/skills. At least prior to QoL3, again, not quite sure about after because I have yet to get a Yokel and the required experience to try. This also blocks them from becoming pilots which is less of a concern but consider that a dupe can get attributes at 1.6 the rate of before (less if they have more than 0 Learning) if you invest spare skill points into that and have morale to spare.

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10 minutes ago, SakuraKoi said:

A Yokel can not take those jobs/skills.

Your point is well taken. I should have thought of that.

With the new skill system, this may be less important, because we’re discouraged from giving all skill upgrades to all Dupes. We may not have the XP to spare on bonus learning skill. Under the old system, adding +learning was a no-cost choice, so of course everyone took “tenured scientist” eventually.

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3 hours ago, Miravlix said:

So I ran out, resulting in him getting a stress and sneezing debuf, that means if he try to use a massage table he will sneeze himself of it, so he is going to get 100% stress

Interesting. I`d assume an allergic dupe should get the sneezing debuff with the floral scent "germs" around. Not as a constant debuff. Anyway keeping bristle blossom in the middle of the base is now a bad idea if you have an allergic dupe. Access restrictions are your friend here.

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Allergic Dupes sneezes floral germs, he filled up my massage room and surrounding area with floral scent germs. Resulting in the dupe getting over the allergy and then take a breath going right back into allergic reaction mode.

 

I'm not sure how big a blossom farm it takes to keep one allergic dupe with meds, but 5 plants was clearly too little.

 

I'm not sure what triggers the allergy, except I had it trigger without the dupe being exposed to floral germs, but by walking past mealwood plants, making me wonder if all the potted plants I've started to favor as decoration is triggering it too.

 

The fact that it is yet another situation that is only challenging because you didn't know any better, is a bid sad though, I would rather have dupes having a random chance to become allergic than it being an easily avoided condition, after you learn of something it's way to easy to just restart and avoid the problem, resulting in each restart resulting in less and less challenge, that is not much fun, as it is just a matter of sitting around waiting for things to be build the right way that avoid problems on the next playthrough.

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I like the new disease / allergy idea. The system obviously needs some polishing but I agree that there is no reason to take a dupe with allergies.

Either you cant use the buddy bud for decoration and miss out on the morale boost or you need to make pills till the end of time. Does not seem worth it at all. 

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4 minutes ago, Mullematsch said:

I like the new disease / allergy idea. The system obviously needs some polishing but I agree that there is no reason to take a dupe with allergies.

Either you cant use the buddy bud for decoration and miss out on the morale boost or you need to make pills till the end of time. Does not seem worth it at all. 

and making pills take time so it is a productivity hit.  that is why the analogy to narc dup fits.  you get 80% of a dup.

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7 hours ago, Coolthulhu said:

Allergy is so obviously terrible I don't see why would anyone pick a dupe with it except to check it out.

It's clearly down there with narcoleptic, flatulent, no-dig, no-build, and anemic on the list of "never ever take, even if dupe has 3 good traits".

I wouldn't put no-dig or no-build in the same category as flatulent.  If your dedicated rancher can't build or dig, that is perfectly fine.  If your dedicated rancher is flatulent and breaks your CO2 locks and pollutes your ranches, then I have a problem. 

I would take no dig and no build over anemic.  I would take anemic over narcoleptic (because narcoleptics drop stuff and athletics can be "learned" or can be confined to a small place.).  I would take narcoleptic over flatulent.

I would also take no dig and no build over gourmet or yokel, since there are plenty of non-digging and non-building tasks, but lower morale and lower learning are universally bad.

43 minutes ago, Jackie1213 said:

Farmers with exo suit seem ridiculous

I actually build my farms so that the farmers would be in exosuits.  Once, I had an oxygenated farm that everyone used to hang out in (because I had around 60 dupes on an accept every dupe challenge), and they depressurized the farm and everyone starved.  After that, I made my late game farms CO2 so that couldn't happen again and put the farmers in exosuits so that they could operate efficiently. 

It makes the farms a lot more stable.

 

On the topic of allergies, I would be willing to accept a dupe with allergies under very specific conditions.  That dupe must have a single job and be isolated in to only one part of the base where there are no allergens or exposure to allergens can be controlled.  A dedicated rancher comes to mind, or a farmer in an exosuit.  There honestly aren't a lot of late game jobs that require dedicated dupes.

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Just now, Zarquan said:

I would take no dig and no build over anemic.  I would take anemic over narcoleptic (because they drop stuff).  I would take narcoleptic over flatulent.

I would skip 10 dupes to get one without any of the utterly terrible traits and just get a no-cook, no-care, no-research or small bladder.

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29 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

I would skip 10 dupes to get one without any of the utterly terrible traits and just get a no-cook, no-care, no-research or small bladder.

Yokel is actually a quite bad trait because they can't get the learning buff from the research skills.  +6 learning is a lot.  All my dupes get that eventually and level up quickly because of it.  I would easily place that as worst than no dig or no build, which aren't really a problem in a large enough base, as you do need some people to tend the colony, flip the compost, harvest the field, etc.

If I see a dupe with no build, but has quick learner or simple tastes and has a high skill in something I need, I will take them.

I agree on the others though.  No cook, no care, no fighting, small bladder are all better to have than no dig and no build.

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21 minutes ago, Zarquan said:

If I see a dupe with no build, but has quick learner or simple tastes and has a high skill in something I need, I will take them.

I agree on the others though.  No cook, no care, no fighting, small bladder are all better to have than no dig and no build.

Before the QoL3 change to skills/jobs, I'd skip all "can't do" negative traits because it made it hard for me to keep track of who has been trained in what job. 

With the new system? I agree. Only no research is even mildly negative now, except for the rare cases when you're looking for one specific dupe and they just happen to be perfect for the job except for the fact that they wont do it. 

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1 hour ago, chemie said:

and making pills take time so it is a productivity hit.  that is why the analogy to narc dup fits.  you get 80% of a dup.

Not trying to be pedantic here but...

a narc dupe is however rather 95% of a dupe, if you do not cut their sleep that is~

 

On a side note, one day small bladder will actually have an effect, one day... though this is the last QoL release, weeeeird.

2 minutes ago, beowulf2010 said:

I'd skip all "can't do" negative traits because it made it hard for me to keep track of who has been trained in what job. 

Somewhere a designer is now crying, crying about not being able to give the dupes enough personality to have them be remembered by. You, you are a terrible person :wilson_cry:

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8 hours ago, Coolthulhu said:

 

It's clearly down there with narcoleptic, flatulent, no-dig, no-build, and anemic on the list of "never ever take, even if dupe has 3 good traits".

Haha... like run from any negative trait. You must be having a perfect base.

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