Ultra Cold Liquid Piping

[Coolthulhu]

23 hours ago, Neotuck said:

that's odd, insulation provides perfect insulation so LOX shouldn't be warming up

Nope, it's rounded for display, but it isn't perfect.

Insulation has the same conductivity as abyssalite. There was no announcement of heat transfer formula being changed, so abyssalite pipes pre-nerf (before abyssalite stopped being a mineral) should have the same transfer as insulation pipes post-nerf.

Insulated pipes have 1/32 the heat transfer of non-insulated ones, plus rounding errors. With rounding errors, this is sometimes exactly 0, but even in most cases with insulated pipes, it's still above 0.

[Neotuck]

Just now, Lifegrow said:

Hah, yeah - bad example there, but you get what I mean  

I've tried to forget that bug exists as I refuse to use it - obviously i'd succeeded  

ya I got it 

just wanted ta tease ya 

[Lifegrow]

Just now, Neotuck said:

ya I got it 

just wanted ta tease ya 

Actually, now that I think about it - the 10gram packet would still warm quicker it just wouldn't break the pipe - i'll take this as a consolation  

[Neotuck]

1 minute ago, Coolthulhu said:

Nope, it's rounded for display, but it isn't perfect.

Insulation has the same conductivity as abyssalite. There was no announcement of heat transfer formula being changed, so abyssalite pipes pre-nerf (before abyssalite stopped being a mineral) should have the same transfer as insulation pipes post-nerf.

Insulated pipes have 1/32 the heat transfer of non-insulated ones, plus rounding errors. With rounding errors, this is sometimes exactly 0, but even in most cases with insulated pipes, it's still above 0.

"perfect" might not have been the right word then but still the difference is so small that it shouldn't be breaking that easily 

 

[Coolthulhu]

2 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

"perfect" might not have been the right word then but still the difference is so small that it shouldn't be breaking that easily

I checked the posts, but it doesn't seem that OP is talking about insulated insulation pipes. Those names are confusing, the material should be renamed to something like "aerogel", "fiberwool" or "voidite" (abyssalite, but with "void" instead of "abyss").

If your pipes are only insulation (material) OR (technically XOR) only insulated (building type), expect them to break. In fact, unless I have some errors in my math, it seems that insulation-only pipes transfer faster than insulated-only pipes.

If we plug in conductivity for oxygen (~1) and insulation (10^-6) into https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithmic_mean we get:

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=(1e-6+-+1)+%2F+(ln(1e-6)+-+ln(1)) (~0.072) which is more than 1/32 (0.03125).

It will take a while until you can build the whole pipeline out of "doubly insulated" pipes.

[Neotuck]

1 minute ago, Coolthulhu said:

I checked the posts, but it doesn't seem that OP is talking about insulated insulation pipes. Those names are confusing, the material should be renamed to something like "aerogel", "fiberwool" or "voidite" (abyssalite, but with "void" instead of "abyss").

agreed, his latest pic showed ceramic, which would have made more sense with the pipe breaking 

[PhailRaptor]

Exactly why I called attention to it.  I figured Neotuck was referring to Pipes that are Insulated made from the material Insulation.  It was unclear whether the other poster was referring to the material Insulation, or merely Pipes that are Insulated, but both seemed pretty off the table.

[Gurgel]

Insulated pipes made from Indigenous Rock work just fine if you have the Lox cold enough and do not let it rest in the pipes.

[Nitroturtle]

Insulated pipes made from insulation material still don't stop LOX from warming up if it's left stagnant in pipes.  The only solution I've found is as listed above, to make a loop-back with a shut-off so your pipes empty after you're done tranferring.  I even tried making a looping resevoir on the receiving side which will slow the warm-up a bit, but the LOX will still eventually warm up without additional cooling.

[SamLogan]

Personnally I use bridges and insulated ceramic to connected them.

[onlineous]

On 3-11-2018 at 7:51 AM, Lifegrow said:

Insulated pipes made of ceramic will be fine providing you don't use massive lengths of piping.

Insulation (that is, the space age material) is incredibly costly, and takes a long, long time to farm enough to feasibly use like others have suggested. My best advice would be to keep your pipe lengths short and direct, and just use ceramic until very late game.

Video here for clarity :

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I actually had insulated ceramic pipes with LOX break quite frequently, even non insulated insulation pipes broke. There are two ways to tackle it:

1. Build insulated pipes of insulation.
2. Cool down the LOX further to make sure it's not too close to it's vaporization point.

Hydrogen is another mather of course: it's a bit harder to keep it above it vaporization point. However, my map (not sure if this is the case for all maps) had iso resin in the 10000 km planet and shuttling a steam rocket with a solid booster up and down a few dozen times was actually not that hard.

[Lifegrow]

25 minutes ago, onlineous said:

I actually had insulated ceramic pipes with LOX break quite frequently, even non insulated insulation pipes broke. There are two ways to tackle it:

1. Build insulated pipes of insulation.
2. Cool down the LOX further to make sure it's not too close to it's vaporization point.

Hydrogen is another mather of course: it's a bit harder to keep it above it vaporization point. However, my map (not sure if this is the case for all maps) had iso resin in the 10000 km planet and shuttling a steam rocket with a solid booster up and down a few dozen times was actually not that hard.

Everything is subject to warming/cooling in pipes - theres no such thing as a perfect insulating material.

Biggest things you can do to mitigate this is use the best material available to you, give yourself the biggest buffer possible (i.e. cool to as close to freezing as possible) and keep your mass as large as possible (larger packets).

That's all there is to it - it was the same with the old abyssalite piping, just less people tried to make liquid oxygen back then. Nothing is a 100% insulator in terms of materials currently available.

[onlineous]

8 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

Everything is subject to warming/cooling in pipes - theres no such thing as a perfect insulating material.

Biggest things you can do to mitigate this is use the best material available to you, give yourself the biggest buffer possible (i.e. cool to as close to freezing as possible) and keep your mass as large as possible (larger packets).

That's all there is to it - it was the same with the old abyssalite piping, just less people tried to make liquid oxygen back then. Nothing is a 100% insulator in terms of materials currently available.

Insulated insulation pipes seem to be a perfect insulator though. A landing rocket does not seem to heat up the contents of the insulated insulation pipe. Neotuck's experiment showed the same thing: even running LOX through magma does not heat it one bit. There might be still a little bit of heat transfer left, but if there is, it's so low it's not detectable.

[suicide commando]

The way I'm handling the heat from my launches is that the bottom 2 stages of my rocket silo have radiant piping, through which I run super coolant. as this supercoolant has been chilled to -200 degrees C, it will quickly cool down the area so I won't have any troubles with heat over there.

 

[zerat]

On 11/2/2018 at 11:40 PM, Smithe37 said:

I'm using regular pipes but made of insultion. Maybe that's the problem?

Yeah, don't do that. It only acts as q perfect insulator if it's insulated pipe made of insulation.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

Would have been so much helpful if the various tanks for the rockets had automation output when full

[Hellshound38]

2 hours ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Would have been so much helpful if the various tanks for the rockets had automation output when full

The capsule will emit a signal when it has enough fuel to make its selected destination (and an astronaut is in it, cargo is empty ect).

So you can use that to automate the refill process.

[PhailRaptor]

3 hours ago, Hellshound38 said:

The capsule will emit a signal when it has enough fuel to make its selected destination (and an astronaut is in it, cargo is empty ect).

So you can use that to automate the refill process.

Only if you leave your Dupe in there forever, and all the tanks fill up at the same rate.  Wouldn't that cause the Dupe to starve?  There's an Exosuit in the capsule, but the Dupe isn't necessarily wearing it either, so they will likely wet themselves immediately after exiting the capsule as well.

[Sasza22]

17 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

Wouldn't that cause the Dupe to starve?

The dupe in the rocket is not being simulated. He is technically removed from the game for the time he`s in the rocket. He can stay there forever and won`t starve or wet himself. He`s like frozen in time.

I think that might change at some point but for now you don`t have to worry about that guy.

[crypticorb]

19 hours ago, PhailRaptor said:

Wouldn't that cause the Dupe to starve?

Nope. The dupe in the rocket is removed from the game, just as if he is dead.

You can actually lose the game if you assign all dupes to their own rocket, because for some silly reason the "Colony Lost" condition is based off the counter for how many dupes you have in the colony. Check this out, @tzionut made an escape attempt, and apparently the colony manager can't leave.