All plants should grow in "wild growth" speed if basic conditions are met

[ArunPrasath]

When plants in farm or hydroponic tiles have basic "wild growth" conditions met, they should continue growing at that speed instead of completely halting plant growth.

Only when one of the conditions in the Wild Growth section is not met, they should stop growing fully.

Currently, if a plant is housed in a farm or hydroponic tile, they stop growing altogether if any condition is not met. This implementation is incorrect @Ipsquiggle

 

In above dusk cap, the plant should grow at 30 cycles/harvest speed instead of 7.5/harvest speed when slime is not available to it.

It should show s similar icon to denote its growing at a reduced speed.

[BlueLance]

in the example of mushrooms though, they get it from the "Biome" or that is how I have always thought of it, when you plant a plant in a pot, it only has a set amount of nutrients to work with.

[Ambaire]

That would be a FUN change. I can just imagine filling an area with 200 (wild) mushrooms or whatever. Never worry about food again.. no upkeep required.

1 minute ago, BlueLance said:

in the example of mushrooms though, they get it from the "Biome" or that is how I have always thought of it, when you plant a plant in a pot, it only has a set amount of nutrients to work with.

Ah yes, the sleetwheat growing forever on snow and ice and even the odd abyssalite tiles.

[BlueLance]

2 minutes ago, Ambaire said:

Ah yes, the sleetwheat growing forever on snow and ice and even the odd abyssalite tiles.

Yeah i know XD but for mushrooms it makes sense

[ArunPrasath]

15 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

in the example of mushrooms though, they get it from the "Biome" or that is how I have always thought of it, when you plant a plant in a pot, it only has a set amount of nutrients to work with.

Maybe we can have like this:

Plants will grow at 30cycles/harvest for 1 harvest, then add +5cycles each harvest for wild growth in the farm tile. (ie, 35, 40, 45 and so on). This can be reset when fertilization is received for one full harvest period

13 minutes ago, Ambaire said:

That would be a FUN change. I can just imagine filling an area with 200 (wild) mushrooms or whatever. Never worry about food again.. no upkeep required.

Even now we can do this - where ever we find wild mushroom we can leave it be.

Same applies for other plants as well. Just dig a tunnel+ladder into their enclosure and seal it with a door. When harvest is ready, enable auto harvest and get the goodies.

So not much difference is there except that they will be clubbed together for easier harvest when cultivated.

[HadashiBlacksky]

I really like the idea because I struggle a lot with food.

[Coolthulhu]

Plants could use a buff to be more comparable in efficiency to critters, but not THAT much of a buff.

This would make food a total non-issue, like old mealwood.

[Zarquan]

22 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

Plants could use a buff to be more comparable in efficiency to critters, but not THAT much of a buff.

This would make food a total non-issue, like old mealwood.

Not as bad as old mealwood.  For one thing, with the way food stress works now, old mealwood wouldn't be viable anymore because your high level dupes would stress out.  Second, it isn't easy in the early game to temperature control an area large enough to feed the dupes with wild growth.  It would be overpowered though.

[ImpalerWrG]

I think a more overt visual change in the plants would be necessary for this to work without major anoyance, like they change color dramatically to the same degree as their current grow/no-grow visual (example: brown non growing mushroom, Red when wild growing, Purple when domesticated growing).

[blash365]

I think the current system encourages players to stick with naturally grown plants for a longer time, since they do not need to support them as much as farmed plants.

That being a nice concept, it still feels kind of odd that we get an all-or-nothing situation for our farm-tiles.

I already suggested a gradually approach to plant growth (1 requirement met -> 25% growth, 2 -> 50%, etc.) in another thread. This would allow farming to be more flexible.

Regarding natural plants i would suggest an additional plant buff ("natural habitat", "naturally occuring", "primal") that gives wild plants a slight growth bonus in contrast to farmed plants without fertilizers.

This would encourage players to keep wild plants early on, while still being able to transition without harsh cutbacks.

[ArunPrasath]

On 6/16/2018 at 3:57 PM, blash365 said:

I think the current system encourages players to stick with naturally grown plants for a longer time, since they do not need to support them as much as farmed plants.

That being a nice concept, it still feels kind of odd that we get an all-or-nothing situation for our farm-tiles.

I already suggested a gradually approach to plant growth (1 requirement met -> 25% growth, 2 -> 50%, etc.) in another thread. This would allow farming to be more flexible.

Regarding natural plants i would suggest an additional plant buff ("natural habitat", "naturally occuring", "primal") that gives wild plants a slight growth bonus in contrast to farmed plants without fertilizers.

This would encourage players to keep wild plants early on, while still being able to transition without harsh cutbacks.

This seems like a good idea.

I have one too:

1. Your plant buff can be applied ("natural habitat") for ''n" harvests (depending on difficulty if implemented, else can be 5). After 5th harvest, the plant "dies" off and gives a seed. So player will be forced to plant the seed in a normal box eventually. Currently, the player can wait indefinitely for the plant to grow again and again.

2. Basic growth for basic requirements is a must. This is a logical scenario. However, the probability of plant giving a new seed reduces dramatically. To reduce large scale farming like this, require plants to be separated by 1 tile radius minimum (should be higher for higher up plants).

So order of modifier goes like this:

1. Natural Growth (actual natural growth)

2. Basic Growth (kept at tile with min requirements) - requires no plant to be near 1 tile radius. Fertilizer will have no effect

3. Stunted Growth (kept at tile with min requirements) - if a plant is nearer than min radius for that plant, growth stops. Fertilizer will have no effect and no seed production (no growth = no harvest = no seed).

4. Negative Growth (not even kept at min requirements AND additional growth req) Plant growth reduces to zero gradually and then dies off with a 25% probability of giving seed. Fertilizer will have no effect.

Maybe a enhanced growth modifier can be listed for currently planted plants in tiles with additional growth req.

adding @Ipsquiggle so that it can also reach developers in case post is missed.

[Oozinator]

On 15.6.2018 at 5:05 PM, HadashiBlacksky said:

I really like the idea because I struggle a lot with food.

I don't like the idea, because i never struggle with food..

[asmallrabbit]

On 6/15/2018 at 8:08 AM, ArunPrasath said:

When plants in farm or hydroponic tiles have basic "wild growth" conditions met, they should continue growing at that speed instead of completely halting plant growth.

Only when one of the conditions in the Wild Growth section is not met, they should stop growing fully.

Currently, if a plant is housed in a farm or hydroponic tile, they stop growing altogether if any condition is not met. This implementation is incorrect @Ipsquiggle

 

In above dusk cap, the plant should grow at 30 cycles/harvest speed instead of 7.5/harvest speed when slime is not available to it.

It should show s similar icon to denote its growing at a reduced speed.

The problem with this is it would just eliminate the farming updates that have taken place. If plants will still grow on their "wild" cycle, then we can just go back to mass planting sleet wheat seeds in cold biomes, etc and not have to worry about fertilization or anything. You can easily compensate for the longer cycles by simply planting more, which is what everyone was doing before the farming changes happened, except now you wont need to have dupe labor to look after them or use resources on them. It would totally break farming again.

[Lazy-Anemic]

As BlueLance has said, wild plants seem to get food from their biome.

If this was added they'd probably make it so farmed plants surviving under basic conditions would grow so much slower than even in wild that it'd be better to just farm them properly for food.

[vovik]

how about 50% slowed down grows outright instead of outright stopping it? situation with all-or-nothing is very odd, it does not fit into the game style

[Alpe12]

I'm strongly against it. Way too easy.
We could just plant infinite plants without having to worry about it.
Maybe an "Easy" option on map cretion could do something like this and other things. Other than that, no...
I actually would love a lot of customization on map creation and an option menu more complete with a lot of options. A bit like Factorio.

[ArunPrasath]

21 hours ago, asmallrabbit said:

The problem with this is it would just eliminate the farming updates that have taken place. If plants will still grow on their "wild" cycle, then we can just go back to mass planting sleet wheat seeds in cold biomes, etc and not have to worry about fertilization or anything. You can easily compensate for the longer cycles by simply planting more, which is what everyone was doing before the farming changes happened, except now you wont need to have dupe labor to look after them or use resources on them. It would totally break farming again.

Please read 

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[Moonshade]

well wild growth hmm i basically am not really up for it since it's always OP in the big amount of space you have. But i guess if you'd combine it with the room system and limit the amount of wild growth plants that can be raised depending on room size. but in all honesty food isn't much of a problem untill maybe end game? cause renewables will dictate colony size then.

anyways wild growth without a limit on the amount you can grow like that breaks the whole farm mechanic in the game in my opinion

[Yunru]

I always disliked how a plant will grow just fine... right up until I uproot and replant it, at which point it suddenly requires a lot more work. Forever.

[asmallrabbit]

1 hour ago, ArunPrasath said:

Please read 

.

And? So you might not get a seed from the plant... which is how it worked before. Min tile between plants? Are you kidding me? So now if I want to plant 35 mealwood plants for 10 dupes I would need 70 tiles?

The all or nothing growth for plants was a design decision to prevent people from setting up massive farms with wild growth and ignoring farming requirements. And it makes sense. If you try and grow your own plant, it requires more care then if its growing naturally in its own environment. Its not going to grow in an artificial environment without proper care. 

You guys are basically suggesting farming revert to pre agriculture update, which they ended up changing because it didn't work. What don't you get about this?

[vovik]

1 hour ago, asmallrabbit said:

And? So you might not get a seed from the plant... which is how it worked before. Min tile between plants? Are you kidding me? So now if I want to plant 35 mealwood plants for 10 dupes I would need 70 tiles?

The all or nothing growth for plants was a design decision to prevent people from setting up massive farms with wild growth and ignoring farming requirements. And it makes sense. If you try and grow your own plant, it requires more care then if its growing naturally in its own environment. Its not going to grow in an artificial environment without proper care. 

You guys are basically suggesting farming revert to pre agriculture update, which they ended up changing because it didn't work. What don't you get about this?

Well, i dont get why klei limit people to this? more space = more work, more work = more time, more plants = more cpu usage, and yeah, plants consumption is the thing that limits colony size and puts a heavy toll on player so player needs to calculate lots of stuff before putting duplicant in, its goddamm easy to understand and stupid to limit people, who cares? its a singleplayer game!
On the other side of this - before plants were set to grow endlessly there was a whole agriculture upgrade which rewarded players for keeping plants well and fed - like 75 sleet wheat yield, but now it does not reward with anything - it requires x material per duplicant (to raise plants), no real benefit. Only good change i find useful that player does not need to replant lots of stuff again and again. Bad changes - growing conditions were just voided, now only wild growth or all-or nothing growth... why not giving wild growth if it is just a basic need to grow plant(like it was in agriculture upgrade), and rewarding players for sustaining non-wild growth?

Seriously, pre agriculture upgrade? endless growth = replanting seed each time automatically after harvest, it doesnt make any difference, we just want back agriculture upgrade with same auto-replant option.

[Yunru]

2 hours ago, asmallrabbit said:

And it makes sense. If you try and grow your own plant, it requires more care then if its growing naturally in its own environment.

Not if you plant it in its own environment it doesn't. Which is the crux of the issue.

[Moonshade]

16 minutes ago, Yunru said:

Not if you plant it in its own environment it doesn't. Which is the crux of the issue.

this kind of depends though cause the environment of a plant changes when you add 1, cause it then becomes the environment + said plant if you do this a lot you got a little bit environment and a whole lot of those plants. which basically is a whole different environment.then

well this is realism. and i don't care to much about that in games. people tend to use realistic as an argument to get something in the game to make it easier more often then not.

[vovik]

2 hours ago, Moonshade said:

well this is realism. and i don't care to much about that in games. people tend to use realistic as an argument to get something in the game to make it easier more often then not.

Realicstic? okay, realistic is not an argument, then how about logic?

lets say that sleet wheat or any plant an easially grow in not its own biome if it somehow manages to spawn out of it, and even on abyssalite tiles...

and even then it has got wild growth flag and grows with said speed.. out of biome on non-soil... assuming that plant dont care where to grow why then it requires much more care if you replant it into somwhere else... like it gets rich fertile soil instead of abyssalite it says "nah, gimme more stuff or you will not get my precious yield!" like an annoying baby...

also it is really feels like an artificial hardening of game, abyssalite/goold amalgum/ice? yeah, sure!, good yummy fertile dirt? NOPE, gimme more stuff!

Getting the point?

 

[Yunru]

It's not a matter of realism, it's a matter of consistency. As @vovik points out, it's not a consistent logic atm.