blash365

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  1. I guess the deal has been sealed already and you wont be able to enlighten us with the internals of the company. But i must really ask anyway: Why? You say it yourself, your company has been in the business for 15 years it has produced some of the most awesome games i have ever played! It has a unique signature and while i was astounded that it would actually be a maintainable business to work in this niche, you seemed to stay in there for 15 years. Growing and even shipping out free content for most of your games on a regular basis. You served your communities well and i always mentioned your company as a top example of how to maintain your IPs without external influence. So what could possibly have changed? I cant really come up with any good reasons. Has the market been become smaller or maybe more competitors arisen? Maybe, but i would still expect that to be solvable with a different pricing model. Is it to risky to finance a new game in the current days? Maybe, but then again, have your recent games bombed? DTS for sure not. ONI also doesnt seem like a bad bargain to me (otherwise there wouldnt be any DLC, i suppose). Not sure about Griftland. So maybe it is simply about dwelving into new markets such as parts of asia maybe different consoles? But why would that need a significant partnership with such a giant? Wouldnt it be more reasonable to trade market shares for commision? Or to higher other studios to do a port? Maybe you are planning on a very big game that needs alot of financial backing. But why sell the entire company for it? It seems like a huge bargaining chip to me. Or maybe you are looking for synergy effects for things like marketing, accounting and other things not too closely related to the creative process behind the game. Maybe the COVID-Pandemic steared the ship into troubled waters (But then why "over the years"?). In any case, this announcement simply screams a huge warning sign. I can still remember the old blizzard days, in which they selfpublished awesome games, then partnered with activision and now are a mere shadow of their former selfs. Sure, they still make decent games. But they clearly have lost touch with their past ideals. I also cant imagine getting something for free from any business partner, eventually they all will demand their investment back and take a bigger slice of the cake. As soon as there is a single failed project, it will be the battleground for giving you less freedom and resources in the next one. And another fear to bring to the table is that there is not only money or control being lost. It is also information. The current trend is that more and more information is being gathered. Even in games. And while certain states are not necessarily innocent in that regard, china has a reputation for having alot of influence on their domestic companies. This has happened to many other companies before. They all had seemingly good reasons. And they all eventually succumbed to the investors ill-intended claims. I wish the best for Klei. Everybody deserves to have a decent life without existential fears and with a decent income to provide and enjoy. But i always thought that Klei was able to secure that for its employees self-sufficiently.
  2. Your concept sounds good at first but it has a couple of fundamental problems: You want to lock certain techs behind encountering things such as elements. That sounds good, but the tech tree is not structured that way. You do not have all oil tech in one tree. They are spread over the entire width of it, often grouped with other techs. So what would be solution? Split everything into its own very narrow subtree? What about overlaps? This would remove the remainder of the already hard to grasp logical structure of the tech tree. How do you encounter an element? Be on the same planet, be close to it? Be able to see it? Touch it? Store it? Produce it? Probably you will need different rules for different elements. And then you will still end up with situations where e.g. a shine nymph unlocks your solar tech because the game just checks for light and not the lights source. Why overcomplicate it? The tech tree currently functions as stepping stones for the player. The player can directly see which technologies he can access easily (left-most) or are far from reach (right-most). The different tech resources simply add a vertical line which tiers the research by very easy rules. Adding extra rules would make it more complicated for players to know where to go next. Especially if you hide technologies before they are "unlocked", which would be more immersive, but an absolute hell for unexperienced players. There are two kinds of discoveries in the world. Your system only allows the first of the two. You have an element and you wonder how to make use of it, then you search the tech tree for something fitting, research it and then build it. You have a specific need (e.g. oxygen) that you want to fulfill. You search the tech tree for a suitable technology. Then you make a judgement call which technology is best used in the current scenarion (depending on resources and other factors), for some of these resources you might even do expeditions to be able to use that technology, finally you research and employ it. It does not allow the player to plan ahead. Imagine seeing an petroleum volcano at the edge of the screen. Still you cannot research the petroleum engine, because you havent touched the element yet. Very frustrating and an unncessary loss of game time. You are barred from using the technology *anyway*. You can already research stuff, but without the elements required, you wont be able to use or in some cases even build it. So why do you need a second showstopper? Having said that, i like what the other posters said that researching could be more interactive with the world. But given some of the quirkiness of dupe ai, i might regret this at some point, should it be implemented.
  3. Did you forget an oxygen tank? I am just asking, i didnt try the new update yet. Some combustions required oxygen, if i recall correctly. From Vanilla:
  4. I usually count the amount of impatient and futile "are we there yet?"-threads. I think we are only 3 threads away from the next content update. 4-5 threads, if it is a big update. From a developer perspective: the new year has seen around 3 work days by now (actually less, if you account for the fact that klei is located in canadia). Unless they worked overtime after the last release to prepare alot of task _before_ christmas. or worked extra hours between christmas and new years eve, they most certainly still have more or less the same content as they had before christmas (plus 2,5 days of work right after a big vacation). Let's give them a few more days. If i am not mistaken updates usually ship on a thursday. Since this thursday has a pretty low chance (as though as that might be), next weeks thursday might be a happy day.:D
  5. Could you add "i play without mods" just for statistics sake? not saying, that devs shouldnt endorse mods, but i'd be interest how many vanilla-vanilla players there are.
  6. In my view, dupes, plants and critters have the liberty to not have a perfect fit with our earthly chemical and physical processes. So a dupe "deleting" oxygen would be fine for me, since it is a good way to balance the dupes interaction with the world. The plants "deleting" water is similar, but if you think about it, they actually do not delete it, instead the "teleport" it straight to the latrines, where the dupes relieve themselves. So instead of programming a tiny little bladder for every dupe, the devs simply opted to assume that all dupes will add water and most plants consume water. While not 100% clean, it is a fair bypass to take.
  7. Well, the way i understand it is, that we will have multiple ways to play all those asteroids in the cluster. We can play the multi-based, 10 self-sufficient dupes per asteroid style as you described. But we can also play the prime-colony + 5 plumbing-stations that just syphon their resources to the main hub. Of course this requires a bit more elaboration than we have at the moment. But the baselines are already there. Warp-Connection between #1 and #2. Rocket Automation + Rovers for the rest. I could also imagine a completely mobile space station that just visits each bus-stop-colony every now and then. It all depends a bit on what Klei adds over the next year. And if there is a strong lobby for some of these ideas, they will surely consider it.
  8. If i read it correctly, you reported a (possibly ui-only) bug that shows that off-gasing behaves differently than the expected/displayed numbers. Where should i put it in this discussion? Or are you simply saying that we shouldnt trust the numbers? I think in ONI methane and NG are the same thing. Or even this. True. I think the sour gas was added for balancing reasons as well. If i am not mistaken, before you could simply cook petroleum to NG. It's a fair point that the process is quite artificial. Hm. So you are suggesting that we should cook petroleum to gold. Interesting.;P
  9. If i am not mistaken those are: Propane (if i am not mistaken, also already in the game data) Natural Gas (already biproduct of refinery & oil well) Hydrogen + Sulfur (the sulfur i was suggesting) So by that logic the suggestion makes a bit sense again.;) But you also said that the off gases are only a very small fraction. So maybe not. This would be the "waste" material i suggested earlier. For the lack of a better word. So Bitumen it is.
  10. No, i do not realize it. That is why i was asking for your perspectives and your answer is exactly what i was probing for. Excellent insight. So sulphur is not a bypropduct of oil refinement. So what else is then? Note that oil wells already do produce oil and natural gas (and with enough heat also sour gas). Good points. The engagement would be to play in a closed system, where equations actually even out. As at least somewhere close to the realm of mathematics, it seems engaging to me. But you obviously seem to differ. Also it seems a bit odd that in some machines elements disappear into thin air. But maybe there are real-life examples where this actually makes sense. The extra gameplay created would be that the game provides inherent balancing by slightly changing the ratio in which elements are split up or by changing how much thermal energy is placed into the produced output. Just take the NG cooker as an example. Before it was 100% conversion into NG, which was obviously overpowered. Now it is only 66% conversion, while 33% are dropped as sulphur (which is at least remotely in that area of chemical processes). They could have also just deleted 33% mass, but opted to use a -then unused- element instead. To me that added more immersion and i would love to see it applied whereever it makes sense.
  11. Well, as i wrote above, ONI is not a physics simulation. So it certainly is not the core aspect of the game to fulfill that law of physics. But it would still be a nice merit to be able to add that layer of realism to the game. Good points. But as i tried to explain in my OP, i consider dupes, critters and plants as something unique to the world of ONI, while the other interactions seem to be borrowed from our real world. Note that i also counted food (for the moment) into that category. For me it would be fine, if these aspects are allowed to modify the mass, because it would be the sinks/sources of our resources. Same for volcanos, vents and similar things. These are sources of elements, it is ok, if they are mass positive. The other things i listed however are not sources or sinks, they are simply conversions. And conversions should have a balanced equation (mass for now, energy maybe in a different discussion). True, i will add that building* to the list. *sublimation station, sludge press, digging -------- Let me give you an example of what i had in mind: Take Oil Refinery: 10.000kg cOil -> 5000kg Petroleum, 90g NG Here we have a very high loss of mass. It makes sense for balancing issues to keep this ratio. But losing almost 50% of mass is a bit unwarranted. If you compare it with a petroleum boiler, you will have a 100% mass conversion, which makes the process far superior. Another user has suggested that we could use sulfur to equate the mass of the oil refinery. That would mean that you could have 50% mass of sulfur as a side product from the refinery. It would have several benefits: mass equation fixed using an existing element that makes sense (if you have NG, you should also have sulfur) created a player-controlled source for sulfur in mid-game easier (?) to manage the thermal energy of the elements that are converted It would also create a few downsides or changed mechanics: the oil refinery would essentially become a sulfur factory, because the petroleum boiler is still far superior to the oil refinery oil refinery is superior to NG cooker for naturally creating sulfur this kind of purpose-transition is not unheard of though. e.g. The electrolizer is sometimes used as a hydrogen producer in lategame with oxygen as a byproduct. A different idea would be to create a new "waste" element like: Soot, Grime or Slag. This waste product could be used in almost every of the uneven equations and balance them out. The waste element could then simply be crushed in the rock crusher to either sand or some mineral, providing maybe another source to "produce" certain minerals in lategame. Benefits: could fix virtually every negative equation could later be replaced with "real" elements as they are added to the game could be recycled into an existing element would not change the existing balance of input-output makes physical sense (if you burn something, you get soot, if you melt something, you get slag) Downsides: new element lore-wise it would also need to be part of metal refinery and volcanos
  12. ONI is currently handling conservation of mass very differently depending on where you look. Of course ONI is not a physics simulation, but i would like to have a quick look at most of the conversion buildings in ONI and what their current state in terms of mass conservation is. Maybe we can come up with neat ideas to get the best out of both worlds. Also i am aware that in some aspects (e.g. dupes exhaling CO2), there might be a gameplay reason for why the mass is not completely conserved.That is why i only want to look at conversions that are unrelated to dupes, critters, plants and (for the moment) food/medicine. I also excluded rocketry for the moment. Other than that i hope i didnt forget any buildings. If i did, feel free to remind me. The buildings below are in some cases unique conversions that the game currently does not allow us to pull of by building contraptions like boilers or liquidifiers (e.g. Polymer Press). Other buildings however are a mere shortcut to a process that we can also setup in a much more efficient way, once we combine some ONI mechanics (e.g. creating petroleum, refined carbon, glass). My understanding is that these player-made contraptions should always be more potent than the shortcuts. At the moment this effect is mostly due to the physical conversion being mass-conserving, while the comparable conversion building is losing mass. Even with a fixed mass equation, the benefits of physical conversion should still be superior. In the list below, i marked green where the mass conversion is either equal or good as equal (5g table salt do not ruin a 100kg equation), yellow where we are losing less than 25% of the original mass and red where we lose more than 25% of the original mass. Notes: The power generator section is mainly red, because the mass is converted into energy here, what are your thoughts on it? Some buildings are balanced down to the milligram, while others are several kg off the most complex conversions use up to 3 input elements or up to 3 output elements, while arbitrary, this seems to be a limit to the complexity Let's hear if we have some good ideas on how to fix some of these equations. Oxygen Algae Terrarium: 30g algae, 300g h2o, 0,33g/s co2 -> 40g o2, 290,33g ph2o Carbon Skimmer: 1000g h2o, 300g co2 -> 1000g ph2o Deodorizer: 133,33g filter, 100g po2 -> 143,33g clay, 90g o2 Electrolyzer: 1000g h2o -> 888g o2, 112g h2 Oxygen Diffuser: 550g algae -> 500g o2 Rust Deoxidizer: 750g rust, 250g salt -> 570g o2, 30g chlorine, 400g iron ore Sublimation Station: 1000g pDirt -> 660g pO2 Power Coal Generator: 1000g coal -> 20g co2 + 400J Hydrogen Generator: 100g h2 -> 800J Natural Gas Generator: 90g NG -> 67,5g pH2O, 22,5g CO2 + 800J Petroleum Generator: 2000g petr/eth -> 500g CO2, 750g pH2O + 2000J Wood Burner: 1200g Lumber -> 170g CO2 + 300J Refinement Algae Distiller: 600g slime -> 200g algae, 400g pH2O Compost: 100g compostable -> 100g dirt Desalinator: 5000g sH2O -> 4650g H2O, 350g salt Desalinator: 5000g Brine -> 3500g H2O, 1500g salt Ethanol Distiller: 1000g Lumber -> 500g Eth, 333,33g pDirt, 166,66g CO2 Fertilizer Synthesizer: 65g Dirt, 26g Phosporite, 39g pH2O -> 120g fertilizer, 10g NG Glass Forge: 100kg Sand -> 25kg Glass Kiln: 125kg Coal -> 100kg rCarbon Kiln: 100Clay, 25kg Coal -> 100kg Ceramic Metal Refinery: 100kg Metal Ore -> 100kg Refined Metal Metal Refinery: 70kg Iron, 20kg rCarbon, 10kg Lime -> 100kg Steel Molecular Forge: 5 kg Niobium, 95 kg Tungsten -> 100 kg Thermium 35 kg Isoresin, 65 kg Petroleum -> 100 kg Visco-Gel 1 kg Fullerene, 49.5 kg Gold, 49.5 kg Petroleum -> 100 kg Super Coolant 15 kg Isoresin, 80 kg Abyssalite, 5 Reed Fiber -> 100 kg Insulation Oil Refinery: 10.000kg cOil -> 5000kg Petroleum, 90g NG Oxylite Refinery: 600g O2, 3g gold -> 600g Oxylite Polymer Press: 833,33g Petroleum -> 500g Plastic, 8,33g H2O, 8,33g CO2 Rock Crusher: 100kg Raw Metal -> 50kg Refined Metal, 50kg Sand 100kg Raw Mineral -> 100kg Sand 100kg Salt -> 100kg Sand + 5g Table Salt 100kg Fossil -> 95kg Sedimentary, 5kg Lime Water Sieve: 1000g Filter, 5000g pH2O -> 5000g H2O, 200g pDirt Sublimation Station: 150kg Mud-> 60kg Dirt + 90kg H2O 150kg pMud -> 60kg pDirt + 90kg pH2O Other Digging: xg Solid Tile -> x/2g Solid rubble
  13. That sounds like an issue with your map generation seed. It would be a good idea to create a bug tracker for your seed. Including seed, screenshot and savegame. What would be the benefit of this system? There will already be different "clusters" to choose your starting location. So the only different is that in your system you can switch between clusters. This freezing mechanic sounds tempting, but it will also break immersion, since you essentially play multiple disjoined games, where he can exchange a few dupes and resources every now and then. By that logic you could also allow to transfer resources or dupes between savegames.
  14. Well, technically if it costs 200kg iron ore, it is not free. Also, if you found a bug, the best place to report it in is the actual bug tracker: https://forums.kleientertainment.com/klei-bug-tracker/oni_so/
  15. Restricting mass seems very arbitrary, since we do it nowhere else in the game (e.g. debris does not pile up). They could then rather make it a starting condition for the rocket to have it swipped. That should be easy to implement and be a clean condition. But then again it would limit us drastically. As i said before, i would rather keep the current freedom but provide a much better alternative for cargo that makes cargo modules worthwhile.
  16. Yes, but most players would consider this as a nuissance and would rather stick to the storage module. Well then you might as well only allow command-module specific buildings. Both suggestions restrict the players choices. Both of which i'd consider not in the best interest of ONI. I am still hoping for a new rocket module ("Recycling module") which will change up the way we use our rockets right now. It should basically be a mini colony, which stores, collects and converts resources to lengthen the time a rocket can support dupes before they run out of food or oxygen.
  17. It depends on the planet. In some cases you can also send 1 robot instead of 2 payloads. The robot can the collect the metal from volcanos and store them in a storage compactor and prepare some other stuff for your trailblazing dupe. He can also prepare some more materials and even the outline of your starting base. The trailblazer can then arrive afterwards with the next rocket and build the platform.
  18. Simple way would be to limit the choices that can be built in the rocket. E.g. only allow rocket-specific buildings. But that would also require alot more content. The other simple way would be to make cargo modules alot more convienent.
  19. There are no hatches on the swamp start planet. I was referring to the plug slugs. The next obviously not sustainable thing on the first planetoid.;)
  20. I would expect the sulfur geyser to be moved to another planetoid in the long run anyway. Otherwise the swamp biome would be quite a joke: water geyser enough po2 for ages enough sand to clean po2 critters who increase your food drastically free food for the critters Then we only need a copper ore volcano to also get free energy.^^ Most likely things will spread out a bit.
  21. I absolutely agree that sulfur should be a biproduct of the refinery. That would preserve the mass in the game. Too bad we didnt post this earlier.:/ Sidenote: it is not 50%, since there are also 90g/s of NG.
  22. I would say, he was quite specific already. "Same version of the game" = "same code". "DLC features toggled on and off" = "certain parts of code locked out"