I am just venting - DST is heading wrong way

[arubaro]

7 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said:

if you want grass a fun way is to read the end is nigh underneath tree canopy

ngl very creative but this isnt about getting grass. We can make lureplant farms+wicker to get +1000 in few seconds, we can make grass gekko farms in the caves underneath a pillar or just plant 500 grass and use scythe+lazy forager.

Is about limiting building without a payoff, i wont be mad about hail damaging mobs if atleast it give something interesting but i dont see how it is fun, interesting or a challenge neither it has a reliable counter like wildfires, earthquakes, antlion sinks, etc

 

[BezKa]

Okay one question- if DST isn't about base building and decorating why is 1/3rd of the current update chairs and tables and decor?

Klei always take megabasers into account when creating updates. They mention it during streams, we get themed skins for structures to make building pretty bases easier.

Complaining about certain mechanics impacting the megabase experience is valid, just like all the discussions on boss balancing are. Don't Starve, and Don't Starve Together always had base building and expansion at it's core. The damage to the base was always a threat, chasing you out of your safe space was always something the game did. 

Hail is still very much work in progress. Considering how long it's been without any changes, I'd assume a solution to the problem not only megabasers, but just casual players raised of mobs suffering pointlessly from the mechanic is being worked on. Hell, we only got pillars after the original earthquakes were already in the game. These things take time.

Besides, do you really think Klei intended to target mobs with the hail in the first place? Because if they wanted to make a threat towards farms and animal pens, there's a bunch of other ways to do it, starting from something that targets the mobs specifically that you can fight off/chase away/prevent, on reintroducing disease in some way ending. Hail looks more like they wanted acid rain but on the surface, and water turns to moon glass, therefore, glass rain. Not the "we want to damage mobs so we'll make it rain glass on them", so some way to protect the mobs is very much warranted.

[Theukon-dos]

As far as OP's post goes. I disagree with a lot of the points, but I do agree that this is all the "wrong" direction.

 

To me, Rift and Planar mechanics feels like Klei trying to skirt around and "Fix" problems they see in the game without actually having to fix or change anything.

Klei might see combat characters as too strong, so they add a mechanic where weapons ignore a huge part of character's damage modifier.

Klei seems to think they made farming too strong. So they add powerful mobs that are attracted to farm crops and harras any player that gets close.

Klei sees players demanding harder survival challenges, so they lock all these survival challenges behind killing space Jesus and nightmare Nimrod. These "survival challeges" do still suck, obviously. But that seems to be the intention.

 

And with this in mind, I understand what Klei is doing. But skirting around the problems is just going to make them feel worse and the so-called solutions all the more clunky. If they DO feel these things need nerfed, then they should just bite the bullet and drive them into the ground where they belong.

 

Also unrelated note, but I know Klei's said that Brightshades feel overtuned because there aren't other rift creatures to diffuse their spawns. But then how come they haven't just, y'know, turned their spawns down until they can add those other rift creatures? It's been 5 months with no "other rift creature" in sight other than the extremely rare bosses. And we know the next update is going to be about the nightmare rift in the caves. So how long until those other creatures show up?

[Dextops]

8 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Also unrelated note, but I know Klei's said that Brightshades feel overtuned because there aren't other rift creatures to diffuse their spawns. But then how come they haven't just, y'know, turned their spawns down until they can add those other rift creatures? It's been 5 months with no "other rift creature" in sight other than the extremely rare bosses. And we know the next update is going to be about the nightmare rift in the caves. So how long until those other creatures show up?

In the newest patch didn’t they tone them down when a boss is possessed?

[arubaro]

7 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Klei might see combat characters as too strong, so they add a mechanic where weapons ignore a huge part of character's damage modifier.

to me they added plannar mechanic instead of needing to change how volt goat jelly works, instead of being additive it should have been a flat damage boost since the beginning but we know what happens when klei changes stuff. Also, for me, is a good way of adding new stuff without converting dst in another terraria like game were you could one shot beequeen with end game gear... you are doing just a little more damage to old mobs and bosses but need the new gear to deal max damage to new bosses, also it prevents wolfgang or wanda finishing fights in <1min without needing 1000000000hp so the bosses, even if certain user says the opposite, becomes balanced for 1 player

[Frosty_Mentos]

8k hours of gameplay here and I don't mind the new added features. Since settings exist and everything can be toggled I don't see a big issue with glass rains besides being an annoyance. It's a cool mechanic imo, might be rough for creatures all around but it probably only affects those that are near. 

One thing for sure that maybe creatures should have passive regeneration if they aren't in combat to mitigate this sort of issue that people seem to be complaining here. Though, not everyone gonna be megabasing to care or want to hear these sorts of complaints when the game is trying to add some kind of new cool mechanics and challenges we'd face as we go deeper into the lategame.

It's hard to make any new content now without stepping on people's toes, what it seems that the rift content is focused on changing and making the world overall more difficult and different to what it used to be. Hence it's counter intuitive for us builders to have more destructive forces around but they at least don't affect buildings at much unless we ourselves don't act quick and smart enough to deal with.

\

What my point is - don't play the new rift content if your base is at risk. You have a choice to change the world or not. Or toggle that stuff in the settings. Be smart about it. Klei didn't fail anyone but are trying to do something more daring than usual. And I give them respect for that.

Wanda isn't good for that content cause she doesn't have anything skill tree related/content is still too new and isn't finished to make her work with it. It's a very silly complaint to be fair, sounding more said out of rage than consideration.

Brightshades are rather easily dealt with the brightshade staff and enlightened crown. As it's lategame we likely have all the resources to easily deal with these sorts of threats.

Area structures are neat, they do their job and I dunno why hate them since they got a decent protection radius. As a megabaser I never have any issues with smoldering cause I carry a luxury fan and watering can around and it mostly is enough. There's Wicker's rainbook too if you just wanna deal with that easily. Pillars look cool and having some sort of protection against falling rocks is a blessing on it's own within the caves, letting cave basing feel much more relatively chill to hang at.

We get all this content and this many preventables, yet people choose to be salty. Eh. What can ya do, y'know.

[Mysterious box]

So kinda unrelated to this topic at hand but can we really stop listing the out of hours we've played as though it makes our points more valid? This isn't a attack on people who do it but I imagine it doesn't feel good for people who lower hours who might want to share their opinions on the topic. 

Spoiler

Before someone says it I know this could just be a case of being too sensitive for a person who may not even exist but hey nothing wrong with keeping the discussion as open as possible.

 

[Theukon-dos]

49 minutes ago, Dextops said:

In the newest patch didn’t they tone them down when a boss is possessed?

I mean maybe? But unless you're actively trying to keep as many possessed bosses alive as possible, that's not exactly saying much.

[Dextops]

10 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

I mean maybe? But unless you're actively trying to keep as many possessed bosses alive as possible, that's not exactly saying much.

I think it’s that once a boss is possessed (and subsequently killed) the spawn rates go down for a bit, but I haven’t tested it yet and that’s just my assumption.

[Clarence Ho]

I hope Klei can provide a world setting to disable Lunar Hail. This should satisfy both players who want to experience the challenge and those who prefer a megabase. I know some people have been playing default map settings without any mods for over 20,000 days, even without using geometric placement. Unfortunately, I'm not part of that group. I play Don't Starve Together alone on a laptop, so I prefer using small-world settings. Additionally, Twiggy Trees and Grass Gekko can cause lag for me, so I use classic resource settings and disable the regeneration of Twiggy Trees and Grass Gekko. When I heard that earthquakes and meteor showers could also cause lag, I even turned them off. Lunar Hail initially had severe lag issues when it appeared in the beta servers. After defeating the Ancient Fuelweaver and Celestial Champion, I started modifying my world, disabling settings like Hound Attacks and Worm Attacks. Since the official servers haven't been updated yet, I don't think we need to react so strongly. However, if it were possible to disable Lunar Hail, I would probably do so. Not only because I find Lunar Hail annoying, but also because my device can't handle the full content experience.

[arubaro]

5 minutes ago, Clarence Ho said:

I hope Klei can provide a world setting to disable Lunar Hail. This should satisfy both players who want to experience the challenge and those who prefer a megabase

i want to experience the ""challenge"" of surface earthquakes without losing the capability of decorating with critters since hail killing mobs isnt challenging, how is challenging to have a mechanic that helps you kill stuff arround you?

 

edit. i never expected this being that hard to understand 

[Clarence Ho]

2 minutes ago, arubaro said:

i want to experience the ""challenge"" of surface earthquakes without losing the capability of decorating with critters since hail killing mobs isnt challenging, how is challenging to have a mechanic that helps you kill stuff arround you?

 

edit. i didnt expect this being that hard to understand 

I don't speak for all players, and the official servers haven't been updated yet. Klei still has room to modify the mechanics of Lunar Hail. Perhaps they will change it so that Lunar Hail doesn't damage mobs and add an option to disable Lunar Hail. However, for me personally, having the option to disable Lunar Hail would be enough because I'm not a mega-baser.

[Szczuku]

5 hours ago, arubaro said:

the 1st rift update was awful but after they fix their spawn mechanic and added the repair kits im having tons of fun, you should give it a try after they fix the stupid hail. These arc plus moon quay content have give to the game tons of stuff to do

You see, the problems I'm having are that the rifts themselves destroy the natural environment and that the brightshades target your farms and builds. 

I'm not a megabaser, but I do want to create a setpiece somewhere away from my base from time to time; best example being a player-built pig village, with berry farms and everything. So, knowing that after I decide to activate the new events I'll have to regularly clean the pig village from brightshades and loot left by the killed pigs, I get discouraged to even build these setpieces at all.

And I don't think that this should be the games intent. There's a difference between a giant that may destroy your setpieces/base if you let it, and the game just out right punishing you for wanting to be creative. Brightshades are badly designed, period. They need to target the first plant they find and they need to wither and die (dropping ashes) after 20 days or so.

And the rifts destroying everything around them is also bad. I like the natural environments of ds/t and I don't want to watch powerlessly as the rifts destroy boulders, bones etc, which I can't replace afterwards- not that manually regrowing an area would be fun to begin with.

I understand that the new items are fun, but I don't want the game to just kick my sandcastles over, like some sort of cartoon bully

[arubaro]

43 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

You see, the problems I'm having are that the rifts themselves destroy the natural environment and that the brightshades target your farms and builds. 

I'm not a megabaser, but I do want to create a setpiece somewhere away from my base from time to time; best example being a player-built pig village, with berry farms and everything. So, knowing that after I decide to activate the new events I'll have to regularly clean the pig village from brightshades and loot left by the killed pigs, I get discouraged to even build these setpieces at all.

And I don't think that this should be the games intent. There's a difference between a giant that may destroy your setpieces/base if you let it, and the game just out right punishing you for wanting to be creative. Brightshades are badly designed, period. They need to target the first plant they find and they need to wither and die (dropping ashes) after 20 days or so.

And the rifts destroying everything around them is also bad. I like the natural environments of ds/t and I don't want to watch powerlessly as the rifts destroy boulders, bones etc, which I can't replace afterwards- not that manually regrowing an area would be fun to begin with.

I understand that the new items are fun, but I don't want the game to just kick my sandcastles over, like some sort of cartoon bully

i wont talk about BS because personally i like them (but i can see how they can be annoying)

but you are right about the rifts, my DF desert is becoming a barren place, all boulders are getting destroyed little by little. I guess is what the forum wants, flat plains with just turf and free loot in the ground waiting for being pick..  the ammount of rock i still need to clean is being very uncompromising. Atleast forests regrow so i can gather the free loot and kill the treeguards spawned by them and wait until the trees grow back. I cant play with such high difficulty, what im gonna do with that many rocks and logs? a megabase? in a survival game? i guess i would feed a lureplant with them

there were the suggestion of rifts transforming everything in their lunar variant during the time the rift is open. Way better idea than just removing everything from the world unless you place walls every few tiles

 

edit. is time to have a crafting station to allow us craft boulders, bones, etc at the cost of what they drop so they can add as much destruction as the pr0s wanna be want

[Mike23Ua]

24 minutes ago, arubaro said:

i wont talk about BS because personally i like them (but i can see how they can be annoying)

but you are right about the rifts, my DF desert is becoming a barren place, all boulders are getting destroyed little by little. I guess is what the forum wants, flat plains with just turf and free loot in the ground waiting for being pick..  the ammount of rock i still need to clean is being very uncompromising. Atleast forests regrow so i can gather the free loot and kill the treeguards spawned by them and wait until the trees grow back. I cant play with such high difficulty, what im gonna do with that many rocks and logs? a megabase? in a survival game? i guess i would feed a lureplant with them

there were the suggestion of rifts transforming everything in their lunar variant during the time the rift is open. Way better idea than just removing everything from the world unless you place walls every few tiles

 

edit. is time to have a crafting station to allow us craft boulders, bones, etc at the cost of what they drop so they can add as much destruction as the pr0s wanna be want

While I understand your frustrations, I believe that the reason WHY the game uproots & destroys stuff when a rift opens up is to “clear the battle arena” for whatever comes out of those rifts.

For example there is a Mini Game in DST where you can trade a championship wrestling belt to the Pig King and then he will spawn in some Warriors to battle us in a Hilarious gold gathering Mini Game.. However, If you have ANY Structures in the way of the Battle Arena the pig king will tell you to clear the area first (destroy your campfires/alchemy engines, pick up loose debris, etc..)

Other examples of not being able to place a structure if things are in the way include-

Midsummers Cawnival Egg Robot Mini-Game, Year of the Bunnyman Pillow Fighting Arena, and of course- attempting to place a boat kit ANYWHERE in the water when a annoying bird lands in the path and drops seeds right where you were trying to plop down your boat.

With all these examples: Im under the impression that the game does this so that the fight with Grazers to mine Pure Brilliance & the mining of Pure Brilliance itself, and perhaps even the pathfinding of Gashalts requires the area to be cleared before it can place the “battle arena”

Klei did take your Megabase into account though when the rifts quote “try very hard to avoid spawning in your base”

Pro tip: If you don’t want an area destroyed by rifts, you can place whatever structures down that tell the game there’s a base in that spot and not to spawn a rift there.

I expect that if a player has a heck of a lot of free time, they can declare the entire constant as a “base” leaving rifts with only one area they WANT it to open up in.

[_zwb]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Pro tip: If you don’t want an area destroyed by rifts, you can place whatever structures down that tell the game there’s a base in that spot and not to spawn a rift there.

This area they don't want to be destroyed is probably natural scenery of the entire map...

Even if you put down structures in tessellating hexagons there are still a lot of structures to be built, and it'd be rather ugly.

You do have a point about clearing out an arena though, I can't think of a better way to make a suitable arena without greatly limiting spawning locations of rifts.

[arubaro]

25 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Pro tip: If you don’t want an area destroyed by rifts, you can place whatever structures down that tell the game there’s a base in that spot and not to spawn a rift there

is what i do except for forest so i can gather rocks, logs and flint

uncompromising!

[Masked Koopa]

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

So kinda unrelated to this topic at hand but can we really stop listing the out of hours we've played as though it makes our points more valid? This isn't a attack on people who do it but I imagine it doesn't feel good for people who lower hours who might want to share their opinions on the topic. 

  Hide contents

Before someone says it I know this could just be a case of being too sensitive for a person who may not even exist but hey nothing wrong with keeping the discussion as open as possible.

i played for 3 hours yesterday

[GelatinousCube]

Oh so now it's time to just be completely and outwardly antagonistic and rude to "megabasers" and anyone who actually likes to decorate and play the sandbox half of the game as well as the survival half and klei are backing them up by keeping Lunar Hail damaging mobs.

Yeah awesome. Just great. Real great challenge there guys. This is so lame and disappointing. 

12 hours ago, landromat said:

Why devs must care about megabasers? You already turning wildfires off so turn everything you don't like. 90% of players are and will be playing on standard setting because this is how game supposed to be.

Cant build big bad 500 football fields megabase anymore? No one cares, no one should.

Turn everything off and enjoy your old stale content you played for 4k hours and let people enjoy new things and let devs create mechanics without thinking about your kind.

First off, super rude and hostile. 

Why should they care? Because it's a big section of their playerbase. Heaps of non megabasers turn off Wildfires too buddy. 90% of people play on default settings??? Hahahaha where are you getting these figures exactly? Because they are complete and utter nonsense. 

No one cares? Yeah just the huge huge amount of people who do megabase, yeah that's no one. 

They literally introduced a big amount of new decor in this very update that serves absolutely zero purpose exact fot decoration and new content for megabasers. Also literally everything up until now (I disagree with OP on brightshades, they don't attack animals and passive mobs are and easy to deal with) for the ENTIRE games history has been counterable (in an effective real way, umbrallas and big trees do not counter hail effectively) and has taken the survival AND sandbox sides of the game into account. Lunar Hail does not and is a trash mechanic.

You are toxic AF.

10 hours ago, Lossy15 said:

 

But well who is me to complain about it? im the guy who makes a small base every time, im not a tryhard

Rude, yeah it's so try hard loving a game and it's huge sandbox experience it provides that very few other games provide or allow. How dare we be so edgy and tryhard. What? 

6 hours ago, Clarence Ho said:

Perhaps they will change it so that Lunar Hail doesn't damage mobs and add an option to disable Lunar Hail.

They said in another thread they want to keep the damage to mobs unfortunately. Extremely disappointing, hopefully they will at least let us turn it off.

[chirsg]

Playtime: 4437hrs.

I too don't like having all these brightshades, but my biggest problem are still the rifts themselves. They strip grass tufts to make wild biomes look bare, same as boulders. Rifts break them down, also spiky trees in the dragonfly desert as well as the swamp. All of these resources being non renewable.

 

As far as hail goes, I'm unhappy with it as well. A solution to keep yourself from damaged is standing under a tree, but the REAL challenge in hail is when you're in the middle of a battle. It adds extra stakes, which if you do complain about that aspect of the game, it's a matter of adapting mid combat, however, having them damage mobs is simply... It's a bit sad. 
The only counter measure we have is to build by the bay and have all protected mobs be underneath a canopy which has it's own problems. 

 

When it comes to megabasers and the prejudice against them, it's funny more than anything to see, but it's the megabasers who spend money to make everything look pretty. I can only hypothesize how megabasers add to the real dst financial ecosystem, but I want to say they certainly have to add a good chunk.

 

I think a pow wow needs to be held. To speak to the person I am in the community, I think I'm divisive, to be honest. The way I present a lot of my ideas are very aggressive and I think I have personal detractors.
Would be cool to be able to present my ideas anonymously and objectively without my personal brand of hyperbole and sarcasm to see how they'd fly, because I think I have great ideas.

 

If somehow we could get all the on brand megabasers to spitball and figure out a definitive list of what we'd all like from the game, I truly think it would be productive. 
On my signature, there are suggestions that I would want in the game eventually because I truly believe each of them take absolutely nothing from the game as a whole.

Problem is, because it's me who made a suggestion to come up with a definitive list of what megabasers would want, it's going to be dismissed.

 

What I can agree with in terms of sentiments against the brightshades is that it's truly a shame that we don't have either a way to prevent them from spawning in areas or just straight out not having a way to make artificial berry bushes for the sake of design. Same can be said about my original idea of adding wax to standard crops to make them last and not have them be infected.

 

 

[Primalflower]

hate against megabasers is so insane to me because it implies that playing a sandbox game like a sandbox is doing anything out of the norm. Megabasing isn't "tryharding", it's just taking up the games offer on what it describes itself as, a sandbox survival game where you can both survive and thrive

that being said I love hail and brightshades and I have like 7.2k hours those two elements plain and simple just aren't as big of a problem as they might look like on paper. they feel fine in practice

[lowercase skye]

the increasing hostility towards megabasers in this community is perplexing. for a good 7 or 8 years now the (frequently overlapping!) categories of players who are mainly in it for the survival and the ones who are mainly in it for the sandbox have been getting along perfectly fine, with the former category engaging with minor decorative elements like boss statues, and the latter category working AROUND the survival challenges (rarely even turning them off, might i add. even turning off wildfires used to mean the whole community would mock you! and don't get me started on shipwrecked's hazards) and coming out on top with a beautiful base to show for it. this sudden idea that megabasers as a whole hate survival/destructive challenges is like, really crazy, and has never been true.

[lenship2]

2 hours ago, chirsg said:

I too don't like having all these brightshades, but my biggest problem are still the rifts themselves. They strip grass tufts to make wild biomes look bare, same as boulders. Rifts break them down, also spiky trees in the dragonfly desert as well as the swamp. All of these resources being non renewable.

they only uproot these resources, you can replant them if you want

[chirsg]

3 minutes ago, lenship2 said:

they only uproot these resources, you can replant them if you want

They stop becoming natural resources and then require manure and become liable to becoming grass geckos. 

 

[Primalflower]

1 minute ago, chirsg said:

They stop becoming natural resources and then require manure and become liable to becoming grass geckos. 

 

If it's for the sake of vanity/disliking how something looks more than the productivity of it, is there really that big of a difference?