I am just venting - DST is heading wrong way

[Hungry French]

5 minutes ago, _zwb said:

This is false.

I have met such generations and even found information about it

[Maxil20]

9 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Right, in DS a lot of things are not guaranteed, like deerclops might not spawn on day 30, yes the game gets more random but that also means you can go through an entire year without seeing any giants from """Reign of Gaints""".

If this is the randomness Mike wants I'd rather have less randomness.

For the record I’m not saying that I prefer the DS randomness, I’m just saying it is a noticeable difference from DS to DST. I do much prefer the consistency of DST when it comes to these things.

22 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Also Walrus Camp and beefalos are not 100% a thing in DS generation.
There are a lot more generation traps in DS.

The lack of mandrakes on the map is probably the only reason to use sleep darts. In DST, even the seasonal boss gives mandrakes...

This is incorrect. The Beefalo and Walrus camp related biomes they spawn in are guarenteed in world generation. These should only not generate if there is an issue with finding a spawn point for said objects, which given how they are not setpieces, should be extremely rare.

DS only has 2 more generation traps compared to DST: the summer and winter trap. Every other trap spawns identically in DST. Heck, they still technically exist in DST, and can be reenabled with mods.

I still would never use sleep darts in a DS context. You really only need 1-2 mandrakes in DS, and getting a few is pretty easy (if you don’t get any in a world, you can world hop to try to find more, or look near the entrances of some caves where they can rarely spawn.) SW and HAM both have ways to get flutes/mandrakes (heck in Hamlet you could outright subsist on mandrake related dishes if you had the money and that’s something you want to do).

 

 

[_zwb]

12 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

I have met such generations and even found information about it

Probably just a bug, I read the code, both is guaranteed to spawn.

[Hungry French]

8 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

I still would never use sleep darts in a DS context. You really only need 1-2 mandrakes in DS, and getting a few is pretty easy (if you don’t get any in a world, you can world hop to try to find more, or look near the entrances of some caves where they can rarely spawn.) SW and HAM both have ways to get flutes/mandrakes (heck in Hamlet you could outright subsist on mandrake related dishes if you had the money and that’s something you want to do).

Panflute is not something that is worth the time in DS.

4 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Probably just a bug, I read the code, both is guaranteed to spawn.

Eh. And Non Beefalo and Walrus world are the only worlds that can make Rabbit Earmuff and Cat Cap very important winter items.

[Maxil20]

2 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Panflute is not something that is worth the time in DS.

Considering its nature against hound/bat waves in DS, I disagree. It is the best way to crowd control these attacks portably, especially given it has 10 uses and can last you a very long time before you need to get a new one. I always carry a pan flute later on as a result of this.

[Hungry French]

2 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

Considering its nature against hound/bat waves in DS, I disagree. It is the best way to crowd control these attacks portably, especially given it has 10 uses and can last you a very long time before you need to get a new one. I always carry a pan flute later on as a result of this.

It is quite possible to do without them. Even in DST, where varglet resorts to you, whose hp is like DS Varg lol.
And Maxwell mentions that varglets used to be larger than in DST...hmm...riddles.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, _zwb said:

Could you give some examples? From what I can see they are equally random.

Off the top of my head- Rabbit Dens can spawn in other Biomes and aren’t limited to just the Beefalo Savannah, Gold Ore Rocks can sometimes spawn in Swamp Biomes, small Forest biomes can sometime spawn in Swamp Biomes.

Maybe I’m just incredibly unlucky with my world gens always being so same-ish, but I could have SWORN DS had more random world Gen then DST.

But please do remember that it was the promise of getting to explore randomly generated worlds so that each play session was unique and different that even made me fall in love with the franchise in the first place.

Now days, DST forsakens that by giving us these long quests intended to dedicate your life to the same world Gen.

 

[Hungry French]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Off the top of my head- Rabbit Dens can spawn in other Biomes and aren’t limited to just the Beefalo Savannah, Gold Ore Rocks can sometimes spawn in Swamp Biomes, small Forest biomes can sometime spawn in Swamp Biomes.

Maybe I’m just incredibly unlucky with my world gens always being so same-ish, but I could have SWORN DS had more random world Gen then DST.

But please do remember that it was the promise of getting to explore randomly generated worlds so that each play session was unique and different that even made me fall in love with the franchise in the first place.

Now days, DST forsakens that by giving us these long quests intended to dedicate your life to the same world Gen.

 

Forest in Swamp is a biome for cave hole. He always shows up.(What a pity that he is not in the DST)

[_zwb]

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Rabbit Dens can spawn in other Biomes and aren’t limited to just the Beefalo Savannah, Gold Ore Rocks can sometimes spawn in Swamp Biomes, small Forest biomes can sometime spawn in Swamp Biomes.

 

Those are expected behaviours, not a result of randomness.

The game didn't start generating a forest in the middle of a swamp, it's a fixed sub-terrain of the swamp terrain that gets randomly placed inside the swamp.

It seems that DS is random to you because you know little about how world generation works, seeing common events  as random

14 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

each play session was unique and different

The questlines are still unique each time because of different world generation no? You aren't forced to do those questlines anyways, the rewards are just QoLs for survival, not like you can't survive without a bone helm.

[Mike23Ua]

41 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Those are expected behaviours, not a result of randomness.

The game didn't start generating a forest in the middle of a swamp, it's a fixed sub-terrain of the swamp terrain that gets randomly placed inside the swamp.

It seems that DS is random to you because you know little about how world generation works, seeing common events  as random

The questlines are still unique each time because of different world generation no? You aren't forced to do those questlines anyways, the rewards are just QoLs for survival, not like you can't survive without a bone helm.

I just checked 5 different save files for my DST and not a single gold ore or regular Boulder spawned in any of the swamps..

There are very obvious differences between DS and DST world Gen at least on Xbox One there is.. idk about on PC.

[Masked Koopa]

zwb when mike says random they mean that DS creates worlds that to them are less similar to one another, they're not speaking about literal randomness here.

[Mike23Ua]

33 minutes ago, Masked Koopa said:

zwb when mike says random they mean that DS creates worlds that to them are less similar to one another, they're not speaking about literal randomness here.

Well yes, but also no, Randomness in what loot a boss drops when you kill it = Suck.

Randomness of Where Gloomers Statue might spawn across the games biomes however would be interesting..

I am tired of knowing exactly where to go to look for something in a game franchise that promised I’d get to explore randomly generated worlds.

Why can’t Gloomers statue spawn in the swamps for once?

It seems like I’m the only person in these entire forums who is willing to even discuss such a suggestion.

But if you give a player enough time to dedicate to a world… they can literally mold it to their liking, you can dig up swamp turf and replace it with moon quay sand, you can take Palmcone trees off Moon Quay and the randomly start planting them around in your world.

So MY Question is why can’t the game just naturally spawn with a bit more randomness? 

Why are Palmcone trees only found on the Moon Quay island instead of on those empty patches of islands with literally nothing spawning on them?

Klei is wanting to add more and more content into DST to extend its longevity, but really what I want is more unique ways the world generates already existing content..

Maybe Pig King can spawn alone in a swamp biome that’s been overthrown by Merms for once?

You can literally dig up all the turf in his village, hammer down all the pig houses and replace them with Wurts Merm huts given enough time to simulate this very thing… but why can’t the game itself do it?

Imagine if I could just download someone’s 50,000 day world they’ve remodeled to their liking.. what playing and exploring in that “lived within” world would be like..

But my Biggest Question has ALWAYS Been if I can dig up the desert turf and plant a small hand crafted swamp biome in it… why can’t the game just do that on its own?

[Vampyre77]

If people go through the trouble of making oasis bases, why not make a plantless base?

[chirsg]

5 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

(heck in Hamlet you could outright subsist on mandrake related dishes if you had the money and that’s something you want to do).

I miss hamlet so much, it's unreal. I'm shattered that the Island Adventures group are retiring development of the hamlet mod.

 

I'm not sure what direction this thread is going in, but with brightshades, you can't just ignore them as they infect the rest of the world when the real estate of transplanted bushes are all taken up. You must constantly stay vigilant. 

 

I hope brightshades get a solution where the elected plants or plots never get infected.

As far as dst headed in the wrong way goes, there are more pros than cons.

 

Even instances of game design that are there to waste your time are offset by the good.

 

All I know is the focus of this game has been the recent patches. 

 

[_zwb]

11 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I just checked 5 different save files for my DST and not a single gold ore or regular Boulder spawned in any of the swamps..

There are very obvious differences between DS and DST world Gen at least on Xbox One there is.. idk about on PC.

This is like getting 5 heads out of 5 coin tosses then claims you'll always get heads from coin toss.......

Never heard of Law of Large Numbers?

[Vampyre77]

10 hours ago, chirsg said:

I miss hamlet so much, it's unreal. I'm shattered that the Island Adventures group are retiring development of the hamlet mod.

Wait they retired development? When did that happen?

[arubaro]

11 hours ago, Vampyre77 said:

If people go through the trouble of making oasis bases, why not make a plantless base?

do you really need an explanation? adding mechanics that punish decorations just reduces the variety that a player can use which is the opposite of fun. BS should focus on planta that are being harvested

people building in the oasis isnt also fun, is something people is used to because is the best option to avoid a destructive mechanic with room for a lot of improvements and counter plays (add an ocarine of time to CK loot already!)

[chirsg]

47 minutes ago, Vampyre77 said:

Wait they retired development? When did that happen?

[_zwb]

14 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why can’t Gloomers statue spawn in the swamps for once?

Because it ruins the aesthetic of the game. Imagine if merms spawn anywhere in the world, would they still be the swamp monsters? Of course not. Doing so would cause the biomes to lose their identity and become indistinguishable from each other.

14 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why are Palmcone trees only found on the Moon Quay island instead of on those empty patches of islands with literally nothing spawning on them?

Because those islands don't exist, are you playing a different version of the game?

Also you're essentially asking why only Australia has kangaroos: because they originated there and never moved to another continent.

15 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

But my Biggest Question has ALWAYS Been if I can dig up the desert turf and plant a small hand crafted swamp biome in it… why can’t the game just do that on its own?

So you can decide what should your world look like.

[Vampyre77]

54 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Ah. Darn

[Hungry French]

57 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Looks like good news

[chirsg]

2 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Looks like good news

yes and no. The alternative mod is reverting a few dst features to single player.

[Hungry French]

22 minutes ago, chirsg said:

yes and no. The alternative mod is reverting a few dst features to single player.

In the picture above, the opposite is written. DS functions for DST