I am just venting - DST is heading wrong way

[Capybara007]

42 minutes ago, landromat said:

it is

To make endgame more challenging klei should tackle a bit the things that make endgame easier

Decoration does not, in fact, make the game easier

46 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Clearly not a challenge (especially not for a new player)

That is not decoration holy **** the strawman is insane

[Mike23Ua]

7 minutes ago, Sanitar said:

This happens with a 100% chance. Why do I need a warning for an event that occurs with 100%? It is more likely that the player will be aware of what is happening and will burn the corpse if he does not need an armored Bearger 

That’s one player, out of 5 others.. if dst was a single player game, you’d have a point.. but it’s not, and anyone killing Bearger = Phase 2 Undead Bearger if they don’t burn the carcass after the kill.

[grm9]

9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

That’s one player, out of 5 others.. if dst was a single player game, you’d have a point.. but it’s not, and anyone killing Bearger = Phase 2 Undead Bearger if they don’t burn the carcass after the kill.

The entire game would need to be remade to prevent one player receiving negative consequences from another player's actions, even in the early game someone could leave no flint around the portal or burn grass and saplings or take pan flute and disconnect/deplete all of it's uses on birds or burn the base or spawn a deerclops at the base while being afk. The game requires you to either play alone or play with other players that you can trust or constantly rollback and ban if a player you don't trust does something that causes negative consequences or install mods that automatically ban for igniting structures built by other players or warn when someone picks up a pan flute or any other important item.

[Maxil20]

Time: 3432.9 hours*

Purchased: I technically got the EA version back in ~2014-2015, but since I didn’t have a good enough computer to play it, I would say 2016 on PS4 is when I really started getting into DST.

Gay: Heck Yeah!

 

I’ve been playing a decent amount of the new content lately, and I would say it’s alright-good at the moment. I will say I don’t think they could have started the content arc any worse (brightshades are still massively unpopular, practically any community I am in despises them and they’ve been unchanged for months), but starting with the QOL update peeked my interest much more and made me look forward to the future updates. 

I feel like a lot of people argue that megabasers don’t look forward to mixing up their playstyle when it comes to harder content, and I don’t really think that’s true, at least for me. I think new challenges are a good thing, provided they are handled correctly and have reasons for going through with it. Acid rain is a pretty good example of this. You can’t really ignore it without all of your food spoiling or your health depleting at extreme speeds, so you want to look into using rain protection to counter it. Traditional ways will lose durability much quicker then normal but will still work, while the umbralla is a creative solution to countering it, allowing you to wear armor and the like without that depleting quickly, and doubles as another way to handle rain. Heck, I’ve been using it so much I actually swapped out my eyebrella in place of the umbralla. In addition, in return for dealing with acid rain, you also get access to a large quanity of nitre, something that is usually hard to come by later on.

I am sure the devs have ideas in mind for neat mechanics that are both enjoyed by survivalists and basers alike. I am hoping they continue to listen to feedback, and make changes when appropriate. While I understand some people want harder content that is especially punishing, it’s important to note the basing community has been for the game as long as it’s been around, and it would not be the greatest idea to throw a wrench in that direction without proper precautions in place (such as the shadow rift boulder quakes having a counter in the form of pillars you can use to protect your cave base).

Regardless of what happens, I am curious for what the future of DST holds. It’s certainly unlike anything they’ve done in the past, and I’m especially curious to see what happens next.

Spoiler

*So technically my steam account has 3432.9 hours, but before I got my own account I used to play on our family account, which has an extra ~1K hours, but also during that I used to play on our family’s PS4, which also had a good ~1K hours.

 

2 hours ago, Antynomity said:

This is not Minecraft where they need to care about long lasting worlds because the game is literally made only for creative expression.

I personally disagree on this statement. Klei has been super careful with old worlds, especially with the retrofitting process. You could have a world right before A New Reign began and still experience all of the content added since then, which is genuinely kind of impressive. Even games like Minecraft or Terraria don’t have as good of retrofitting support, using requiring you to make a new world or load new chunks to experience the new content (which works fine due to how both of the games work, but that doesn’t really work out in DST).

My main world is over 15000 days old and started during the first update of return of them (turn of tides), and the only real marks that you can tell the world was retrofitted is the archive/grotto biomes being disconnected, and the salt biomes not having quite as much salt as normal worlds. Other then that, it’s fairly difficult to tell what is and isn’t retrofitted, and I genuinely appreciate that they care enough to add new content to existing worlds to the best of their ability.

47 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Images 

The main thing that differs for me is how all of these things have (some) warning and ways to counter them. Deerclops/bearger are predictable boss spawns with a minute warning, fire hounds have a 30 second warning, wildfires have smoldering cues and have methods to counter them, and antlion has cues and can also be placated or killed to delay/remove sinkhole threats entirely. 

Things like lunar hail are iffy because by the time you see it, it’s already too late to 100% prevent all damage, and the counters you had were either moving everything by fig trees or constant usage of umbrallas, both of which are not entirely realistic methods. I will agree that I like the merit of it being a potential hazard that needs to be watched out for and will cause risks if you don’t, which is why I’m curious on what the permanent solution will be when it gets properly implemented. 

I’m not even against ways to counter events being pricey. Dreadstone pillars are a fantastic endgame sink and I genuinely enjoyed using a good chunk of my green gems to 100% earthquake proof my ruins, among other things.
 

[landromat]

27 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

To make endgame more challenging klei should tackle a bit the things that make endgame easier

Decoration does not, in fact, make the game easier

That is not decoration holy **** the strawman is insane

you need specific screenshot with decorations burning?

I'll tell you about one big flaw in your logic: You tell us decorations should not be destroyed but you decided for some reason that berry bushes, trees, fences, animals etc are decor items. In fact, they're not. You CAN use them as decor, but that's not indended usage.

You know what decor items is? flower pots, end tables, succulents and new furniture in this update. that's intended decor items and even then im pretty sure people will find some unintended functional usage for them.

You can't just say item should be indestructible because you use it as decoration, just accept it

 

[_zwb]

22 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

That’s one player, out of 5 others.. if dst was a single player game, you’d have a point.. but it’s not, and anyone killing Bearger = Phase 2 Undead Bearger if they don’t burn the carcass after the kill.

Others can kill bearger to summon armoured bearger, then what? Not like she's going to teleport to you and butt slam you to death with no warning.

[mykenception]

30 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Others can kill bearger to summon armoured bearger, then what? Not like she's going to teleport to you and butt slam you to death with no warning.

yes, running away has always been a tried and true tested solution for most fights

this isn't even a raid boss that resets if you fail to kill it, run away to regroup and continue your progress there. The new Mutated bosses don't home in into your boss like a missile anyway

unless ofcourse one leads it to your base, might as well burn the whole place down

[Capybara007]

1 hour ago, landromat said:

you need specific screenshot with decorations burning?

My point is that these methods like bearger and fire hounds are easily countered unlike brightshades which are impossible to counter and serve no challenge purpose

And even if you sent a screenshot of decor getting burned it would still prove nothing on why you think its a challenge

1 hour ago, landromat said:

I'll tell you about one big flaw in your logic: You tell us decorations should not be destroyed but you decided for some reason that berry bushes, trees, fences, animals etc are decor items. In fact, they're not. You CAN use them as decor, but that's not indended usage.

Add a brighshade repelent so i can use them for decoration, and if you want "more challenge" you dont use it, case closed, dont force your playstyle into others

[Spino43]

58 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Others can kill bearger to summon armoured bearger, then what? Not like she's going to teleport to you and butt slam you to death with no warning.

Yeah, they can just gang up on armored bearger and whoop his butt. Also, it's late game content, you have to be real desperate to not have enough resources to deal with armores bearger.

[Szczuku]

1 hour ago, Maxil20 said:

The main thing that differs for me is how all of these things have (some) warning and ways to counter them. Deerclops/bearger are predictable boss spawns with a minute warning, fire hounds have a 30 second warning, wildfires have smoldering cues and have methods to counter them, and antlion has cues and can also be placated or killed to delay/remove sinkhole threats entirely. 

By no means am I defending the half-baked mechanics that Klei's been pumping out since Brightshades. In fact, I haven't been playing this game since brightshades as I simply refuse to accept them in their current state

I was just making a point that the game can have and has good mechanics that are destructive and target the player specifically

[landromat]

1 hour ago, Capybara007 said:

My point is that these methods like bearger and fire hounds are easily countered unlike brightshades which are impossible to counter and serve no challenge purpose

And even if you sent a screenshot of decor getting burned it would still prove nothing on why you think its a challenge

Add a brighshade repelent so i can use them for decoration, and if you want "more challenge" you dont use it, case closed, dont force your playstyle into others

enjoy
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3048616908

[Capybara007]

1 hour ago, landromat said:

enjoy
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3048616908

Sounds good, thanks

[Pomato]

2 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

Add a brighshade repelent so i can use them for decoration, and if you want "more challenge" you dont use it, case closed, dont force your playstyle into others

"if you want "Pretty base" you dont open the rift, case closed, dont force your playstyle into others"

Sounds familiar? (Boy it's hard to imitate the way you type, purposefully typing those grammatical errors feels so weird)

I noticed that a lot of arguments from both sides tend to include this "If you don't like this then don't use it / Don't force others to follow the way you play" stuff.

If these words can be used in both ways, then these phrases are no longer supporting one side's arguments, but rather an unproductive addition to sour the discussion for everyone, no?

And about this mod right here in the steam workshop:

1 hour ago, landromat said:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3048616908

The author in the comment section has explicitly stated that the modded lightning rod only protects the plants that are planted by the player. It does NOT protect wild plants, or plants that are already targeted by the rift before the mod's installation.

Therefore it's advised that after installing the lightning rod mod, stick around for a while and check there're no brightshades, after that you should be good.

With that being said, have fun!

[grm9]

30 minutes ago, The Box said:

"if you want "Pretty base" you dont open the rift, case closed, dont force your playstyle into others"

And miss out on the content of the last three major updates (not counting skill trees) that were released entirely. Not using a hypothetical thing that would make brightshade gestalts go away wouldn't make you miss out on the content of the last three major updates (not counting skill trees) that were released entirely, unlike not opening rifts. Although the "just don't use it" argument doesn't really work because you can't force all people on all servers you join to not use it, unlike the common sense stuff like "don't ignite base", unlike how it would be if it was simply not available in the game by default, since the amount of people who would have mods to counteract that would be smaller than the amount of people who play without those mods if something or removal of something doesn't prevent receiving enough joy from playing.

[Jakepeng99]

On 10/7/2023 at 11:58 AM, allmeitysk said:

Wanda

What can I say?  You killed her. She absolutely no-go for this late game content, she is pathethicly weak and not worth picking in the world anymore. 

Have you met Ms. Information? She would agree with you.

[Antynomity]

5 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

Snip

Yeah retrofitting is awesome and I love that they do it, however, Klei cares a bit too much about older worlds, especially with the new rift content, where they need to disable the threats for wildlife / builds because there's no solution yet. That is on Klei, to have a solution in place, even if a placeholder one, but with rifts, you're not even forced to activate them, and while destroying decoration isn't a threat, destroying key builds in a base that you use for survival / convenience is, even if it's just tedium.

 

With that said, damaging all freaking mobs that are loaded during hail is just freaking dumb and no amount of safe guarding will make it a good thing, no world should ever become a lifeformless wasteland.

 

Either way, retrofitting is a good thing.

Have a nice day, and damn that's some spicy DST steam art you've used there!

 

[MoonWormwood]

49 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

 while destroying decoration isn't a threat, destroying key builds in a base that you use for survival / convenience is, even if it's just tedium.

 

the truth is that players who reach to rift content wont "lose" because of 4 tile base being destroyed. Experience players survive without base and by the time you reach rifts you most likely have most of the survival related recipes already prototyped so they would only need to pick up the loot from the floor and craft what is needed

destroying bases only punish the survival new and unskilled players and the fun of those who have a big bases without affecting their survival

[Capybara007]

3 hours ago, The Box said:

"if you want "Pretty base" you dont open the rift, case closed, dont force your playstyle into others"

 

 

You talk without thinking

There is no option to disable specifically brightshades btw

3 hours ago, grm9 said:

And miss out on the content of the last three major updates (not counting skill trees) that were released entirely. Not using a hypothetical thing that would make brightshade gestalts go away wouldn't make you miss out on the content of the last three major updates (not counting skill trees) that were released entirely, unlike not opening rifts. Although the "just don't use it" argument doesn't really work because you can't force all people on all servers you join to not use it, unlike the common sense stuff like "don't ignite base", unlike how it would be if it was simply not available in the game by default, since the amount of people who would have mods to counteract that would be smaller than the amount of people who play without those mods if something or removal of something doesn't prevent receiving enough joy from playing.

 

[Pomato]

53 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

You talk without thinking

This is imitating the way of talking of you know who. 

Maybe you don't know. That's fine.

Considering our conversation would be pointless if you don't seem to get it, I am not going to continue this discussion. Good day.

[Jakepeng99]

There is ways to stop bright shades by having a pet bringshade to stop other ones spawning nearby.

[sudoku]

I try not to comment too much on these debates anymore because I've been around long enough that I've seen every argument and what the conversation ultimately boils down to but I will throw my two cents in anyway.

I think what both sides ultimately argue over the most in terms of new game play is destruction, which as a concept is perfectly fitting for a survival challenge and is a deviation from the usual route klei takes survival gameplay - boss fights, which imo have become rather stale and boring in terms of providing survival gameplay, not only because of the amount in the game already but also because most fights are optional or are initiated by the player.

However, the problem, always, with adding new destructional gameplay is that the parameters of world destruction quickly become unwieldy due to  megabasers constantly growing territories being outliers, and since these are usually longterm, dedicated fans of the game they tend to be pampered by klei. And i say pampered not in a derogatory sense but in s survival sense - because most survival players welcome challenges that throw a wrench in the plan and where you have to think on your feet.

With that said, you can't blame megabasers - its how they like to play, instead the blame lies on klei for catering to multiple biome-wide bases in lieu of actual survival threats and challenges. That never used to be the case - wildfires have existed in the game since 2014 and megabasers promptly turned them off as they rightly interfere too much with map-wide base building.

And its not just the megabasers klei bends over backwards for either. Klei has cultured a very different playerbase from survival enthusiasts . Its a playerbase who wants to sit at base and race carrats, play cawnival minigames, login and live on their thousand day world forever - so much so that hound waves - the antithesis of this play-style were altered, fight bosses when they feel like it, and ultimately, smash the rollback button when a death or mass destruction occurs.

Survival gameplay, on the other hand, is all about it being a race against time to prepare for incoming threats, rolling with the punches, taking the highs and lows as they come - even if it leads to a failed run. And I think that right there is the real dilemma - survival players arent afraid to fail as failing is apart of the challenge and sometimes, despite your best efforts it wasnt enough in that particular play session. But this is an era of DST where complaint threads are immediately posted within minutes of betas dropping - and not just your normal feedback on overtuning either, I mean full-on doomsdayer threads hating on a particular design concept because it requires a change in the normal thought process.    

Point is, klei has allowed two very different gameplay philosophies to brew in the same pot - and im not really sure how they go about trying to mix the oil and water together.

[Theukon-dos]

3 minutes ago, sudoku said:

Point is, klei has allowed two very different gameplay philosophies to brew in the same pot - and im not really sure how they go about trying to mix the oil and water together.

You hit the nail right on the head me thinks. I wouldn't say it's been the only problem with the recent updates; environment challenges that simultaniously don't threaten bases and are fun to deal with can be made. Klei just kind of hasn't. But trying to prevent a schism that already exists has definitly caused a lot of hassle for everyone involved.

 

This is one of the reasons I've been advocating for an "Expert/Survivalists" mode. An optional toggle that makes it clear from the get go that "Hey, this is going to be tough and your base might not stay in one piece", that way both the players who want their megabaser's cake and their survival world pie can both be happy.

[MoonWormwood]

45 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

This is one of the reasons I've been advocating for an "Expert/Survivalists" mode. An optional toggle that makes it clear from the get go that "Hey, this is going to be tough and your base might not stay in one piece", that way both the players who want their megabaser's cake and their survival world pie can both be happy.

i get the suggestion but that mode would make sense only in games like terraria

why would klei focus the design of almost everything to be replayable if later they release a mode to just go throw the content

one of the best parts of dst is being able to keep playing after getting the last boss loot. why i would want a CC crown if minutes later i would stop playing? what i like of megabasing is that i can keep gathering resources and fighting bosses at the same level of difficulty to keep building

in games like terraria i just drop the world after moon lord, there is no point for me to keep playing in a save that doesnt thread me

also, seeing the last destructive mechanic it wont be interesting. They have been adding destructive and resource keeper stuff in the past and some in the future that was fun like bosses, meteors in a biome, brighshades (even if is true that you get a lot to the point of becoming kinda tireshome). What make/made no sense were hail one shotting bunnies, crustaceans, etc; disease destroying, by the time, non renewable plants unless you did a boring task; rifts suddenly spawning in the middle of a build without warning, counter or anything, just because potatoe

they can add new weathers like acid rain, poisoning fog, sea weather, plages, etc. They can even add real hail for winter instead of snowing without the need of rifts like in SW but damaging players. They can add tifoons in the sea and waves that wets the player. Hamlet has interesting mechanics like the bramble walls, insects metamorphosing into deadly plage, poisonous biomes...

The game has potential for real challenges and threads and not just flashy dumb stuff that dont affect in any challenging regard to pure survivalist, when you go throw the content you dont even build chest but drops everything on the floor...

i wont be happy neither as a survivalist player or megabaser, the thing that makes me have fun is the mix and this arc is making both parts happy after the fixes. I wish they keep adding threads and biomes for early and late

 

edit. without taking into account that would make 0 sense for them to split their work and fan base

is better if they come with high quality ideas rather than adding a mod with lame and vague mechanics like the raids from valheim lel

[Mike23Ua]

42 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

You hit the nail right on the head me thinks. I wouldn't say it's been the only problem with the recent updates; environment challenges that simultaniously don't threaten bases and are fun to deal with can be made. Klei just kind of hasn't. But trying to prevent a schism that already exists has definitly caused a lot of hassle for everyone involved.

 

This is one of the reasons I've been advocating for an "Expert/Survivalists" mode. An optional toggle that makes it clear from the get go that "Hey, this is going to be tough and your base might not stay in one piece", that way both the players who want their megabaser's cake and their survival world pie can both be happy.

I beg you guys to go onto YouTube and watch every single Klei offical trailer for both Dont Starve, and Don’t Starve Together- It’ll be a lot to watch.. yes, but you’ll get to see what Don’t Starve Started as, as well as what all was actually added to it over time in Patches & updates that drastically changed it.

As just an example.. Cave Sinkholes and bats spawning out of them werent in the game when it first released, that was something that was added later.

Had that content been added to the game in TODAYS generation of gamers: I guarantee you Bats would not flock out of those holes and potentially invade your base..

Because that’s sadly just what DST has turned into now, a game which caters to the casual masses in ALL THE WRONG WAYS!!

If Klei wants to cater to casuals- Do it with content that will actually be FUN for Casuals- Like pretty furniture from the SawHorse.

[MoonWormwood]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Because that’s sadly just what DST has turned into now, a game which caters to the casual masses in ALL THE WRONG WAYS!!

If Klei wants to cater to casuals- Do it with content that will actually be FUN for Casuals- Like pretty furniture from the SawHorse.

idk why you feel sad when you are the bigger casual

this last year was mostly focused on non casual gameplay(late game rifts)+making improvements for newcomers