Wickers refresh lacks creativity and is a waste of potential, and I am very disappointed.

[Scrimbles]

From what I gather from talking to people over the years, and playing her as my old Main, is that Wicker is considered an incredibly boring character due to her lack of any core mechanic, or trait, or design that makes her feel fun and unique to play.

The entirety of what makes Wicker fun is her ability to have overpowered spells. When you take that away, people seem to lose all interest. I've seen first hand what happens, not only from my mods but from Klei nerfing her last year. If Klei never made Wickerbottom, and they simply added the books (with maybe a different visual/context) as magic tab items, nothing would feel missing, nothing would feel off. It would just be a new set of generic use magic items.

Her downsides are still largely ineffectual, as any decent player shouldn't be eating stale food, and not being able to sleep is really not that impactful. These are downsides that are long outdated, and only serve to punish players who are very new at the game.

Don't get me wrong, I like her new books! They are very interesting and fun to use! But that doesn't mean Wicker shouldn't have gotten something that expanded her design. It's a big missed opportunity.

There are a thousand ways to make a librarian/cataloguer/researcher character interesting, but they decided to do nothing with that, and added more of what makes her problematic. What if she was able to catalogue various flora and fauna of the constant? Maybe being able to take notes, and share them with other players? Maybe she has an obsessive need to seek knowledge? Maybe she could use a reworked version of something like research points, the old crafting mechanic where you would break down items into points that you can craft with?

Anything to give her some core interaction that sets her apart from other characters.

I suppose, at the end of the day what I'm trying to say is...

Spoiler

 

[WhackE]

I think you just hate literature! Maybe you should write a book and see how hard it is!!!!!!

[Theukon-dos]

The Wigfrid and Wickerbottom reworks are extremely similar in that they both chose to add ontop of what was already there, as opposed to changing the base.

 

The difference is that Wigfrid was an already solid character who was in no need of any major changes, while Wicker has always been little more than what was already on top.

[Scrimbles]

1 minute ago, Theukon-dos said:

The Wigfrid and Wickerbottom reworks are extremely similar in that they both chose to add ontop of what was already there, as opposed to changing the base.

 

The difference is that Wigfrid was an already solid character who was in no need of any major changes, while Wicker has always been little more than what was already on top.

That's a brilliant way of putting it, I agree 100%!

[ShadowDuelist]

6 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

The Wigfrid and Wickerbottom reworks are extremely similar in that they both chose to add ontop of what was already there, as opposed to changing the base.

I think they chose the right way, Wicker is incredibly powerful and useful, and now they just made her even more versatile. Wicker needs a lot more thought, experimenting and technical sandbox thinking to user her full potential than for most characters, and that is why not many players will like playing as her.
The books are basically her "perks" themselves, she can spam magic and change the world around her.

I can't be happier with this rework.

[Scrimbles]

Just now, ShadowDuelist said:

I think they chose the right way, Wicker is incredibly powerful and useful, and now they just made her even more versatile. Wicker needs a lot more thought, experimenting and technical sandbox thinking to user her full potential, and that is why not many players will like her playstyle.
The books are basically her "perks" themselves, she can spam magic and change the world around her.

I can't be happier with this rework.

But none of it feels core to her character in a way that something like the modules are to WX.

Anyone could have been able to craft her books, and nothing would have felt wrong.

"Wicker needs a lot more thought, experimenting and technical sandbox thinking to user her full potential"

That is stretching it, her books are all very simple to understand, and again it doesn't feel like anything core to Wickerbottom.

[ShadowDuelist]

1 minute ago, Scrimbles said:

But none of it feels core to her character in a way that something like the modules are to WX.

Anyone could have been able to craft her books, and nothing would have felt wrong.

They are spellcasting books managing different aspects of the constant, she was always like that, its the undercover way Klei added a mage to the 1930's theme.
 

3 minutes ago, Scrimbles said:

"Wicker needs a lot more thought, experimenting and technical sandbox thinking to user her full potential"

That is stretching it, her books are all very simple to understand, and again it doesn't feel like anything core to Wickerbottom.

I still see people showcasing wicker just summoning tentacles and getting spanked. Or make a big-ass platform to avoid being spanked and using 20 tentacle books to make one bee queen kill that takes half an hour.
I'm not saying there is a right or wrong way to play the game, but playing wicker "efficiently" and realizing you can do so many things with so little as her, takes a lot more than just using the books.

[Cheggf]

7 minutes ago, Scrimbles said:

But none of it feels core to her character in a way that something like the modules are to WX.

Anyone could have been able to craft her books, and nothing would have felt wrong.

Anyone could have crafted magic trinkets that gave the modules effects and nothing would have felt wrong. Or at least by the standards of everyone having every Wickerbottom book nothing would feel wrong. 

[Scrimbles]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Anyone could have crafted magic trinkets that gave the modules effects and nothing would have felt wrong. Or at least by the standards of everyone having every Wickerbottom book nothing would feel wrong. 

Modules are designed around a charge system that only WX has, and are obtained by a unique scanning system that only WX has, and the context of those items would be incredibly out of place for any other character.

The charge system has multiple interactions that are completely unique to WX too, WX has mechanics that are interweaving and connected.

Wicker has nothing like that.

[Mike23Ua]

13 minutes ago, Scrimbles said:

But none of it feels core to her character in a way that something like the modules are to WX.

Anyone could have been able to craft her books, and nothing would have felt wrong.

"Wicker needs a lot more thought, experimenting and technical sandbox thinking to user her full potential"

That is stretching it, her books are all very simple to understand, and again it doesn't feel like anything core to Wickerbottom.

If you want to go that route… anyone could have crafted a utility belt (possibly even designed by Wagstaff himself) to socket circuits into to gain crazy perks.

WX78 being a robot and doing it just makes the most basic sense.

WX78s core gameplay was only changed in giving them Jimmy.. which is if you want to get technical about it- a tool that encourages noobs to explore the game and scan mobs.

Wickerbottoms books on the other hand.. I can not play in the Beta but I assume the crafting of those are so basic to the point that her gameplay doesn’t feel “refreshed” and that’s what your complaining about isn’t it?

However.. If her new books required her to go to a location and summon a mob, resource etc in order to get crafting ingredients for her OTHER Books.. would you feel her gameplay was any better? Example: she can now summon rain at her own free will so maybe a Charged Volt Goat could be an ingredient in boosting the power of End is Nigh or something to that effect..?

I don’t think Wicker as a character can really HAVE much of a gameplay loop outside of her library books, but it would’ve been Unique if say- she could go to Dragonfly’s Lava Pools and summon Larvae or a new mob only she can summon for ingredients she needs in her books?

Webbers rework as amazing as it was still amounts just to going to a location and taming a mob for a specific purpose or building switcher cookies to switch them to a different spider type.

Wolfgangs rework only had a few minor strength perks and took his damage multiplier and locked it behind needing Gembells and workouts.

The more I hear you complain about Wickers rework, the more I’m convinced you wanted Klei to turn her into a brand new character.. and that’s just not the way any of the reworks (including WX78’s) have been.

[Cheggf]

4 minutes ago, Scrimbles said:

Modules are designed around a charge system that only WX has, and are obtained by a unique scanning system that only WX has, and the context of those items would be incredibly out of place for any other character.

The trinkets are designed around a magic meter that everyone has, and are obtained by a generic channeling system that everyone has, and the context for these items would be incredibly out of place delegated to only one character.

I don't know why you're arguing that Wilson but he ignores temperature and walks fast is better than this rework full of fun books. WX is the most boring character in the entire game. 

[finn from human]

33 minutes ago, Scrimbles said:

any decent player shouldn't be eating stale food

I don't have anything to say about the rest of the post but like, this is a really weird blanket statement to make. Situations that come to mind where i eat stale food (and I like to consider myself "decent") are:
- Early exploring, where I'd rather harvest lots of berries and carrots once over stopping to pick fresh ones every few days.
- Anytime i use the crock pot for cooking more than 1 thing. I'd rather make a whole batch of honey hams or bacon and eggs or etc and eat the last few stale, rather than make just a couple and have to go back to base so quickly when I eat them.
- If I'm eating crops directly, because again I'd rather carry a lot on me than have to go back to my salt box every few days.
- Meaty stew
I use an insulated pack later on too and this still applies. Stuff goes stale FAST in this game, such a blanket statement of "decent players shouldn't be eating stale food" is really silly, it's a matter of playstyle, and Wickerbottom would absolutely have a noticeable effect on mine.

[MondayNight]

 

31 minutes ago, Scrimbles said:

 

[Ohan]

Something i havent seen anyone mention yet: she did get a new downside. Reading any book at 0 sanity spawns a nightmare, this goes beyond the normal cap of number of nightmares and idk if theres an actual limit.

With this in mind + the big amount of new books to play with which will cause her to use way more sanity than before im really happy with this refresh as a wicker main.

No refresh is gonna be perfect and fulfil every character’s potential to the absolute fullest, the way you personally or i have it pictured in our minds. Its just unrealistic to expect this. This is a really great refresh which certainly does justice to the character wicker has always been. 

Not everyone is gonna enjoy every survivor. Ive always liked wickerbottom the most out of the cast because of her character fantasy of having a book for every problem, and if not a book the knowledge through quotes and T1 science. This has only been expanded upon in a huge way to the point where she pretty much does have a book for every problem.

[goblinball]

Wickerbottom has never been a character I ever wanted to play, it’s always just been “yknow having x book would be nice rn”. This update hasn’t solved that issue; I never play wickerbottom because she’s fun, I only play her when her books are convenient. The only thing this refresh has done is exacerbate the issue.

Also, she’s basically a pick and swap now, albeit you can only swap to maxwell. Her books are very easy to stockpile, especially now that the moon quay update has made gathering reeds easier, and you won’t ever need to worry about books running out now that you can recharge them at the bookshelf. Once you’ve crafted the books, there’s really no reason to stay as wickerbottom and not swap to maxwell.

[Frosty_Mentos]

I dunno, Wicker doesn't seem generally to be a "super interesting character" more than just being an encyclopedia for everything (get it?) and that she's very much in her character to just have more books to throw at our problems.

Similar disappointment I had where Willow didn't get any new fire perks to go with. She got her bernie which is a good midgame damage sponge but nothing beyond for her. I'm still hoping for some sort of bernie upgrade update or something for Willow to make her Bernie work with the new lunacy stuff but maybe in the future hopefully since Wicker got an lunar book. At least I get plenty of early fuel as her and ruins are cheaper on using armor.

Wicker's additions are surprisingly good considering that you don't need to craft books again and again when you can just store them to regain their durability. Overall she's a powerhouse of a farmer in many aspects from food, materials to casual WX charger. If not those then she's basically a book slave for Maxwell which prolly could be the main problem to her overall.

She's good in all things and always held decent on her own. Now she can do a lot more work as a sigma grindset character like Maxwell or Wolfgang.

Only thing I'd want a buff on is the temperature book but idk how'd I want a change on it to want that unless I am fully clothed.

[Mike23Ua]

1 minute ago, goblinball said:

Wickerbottom has never been a character I ever wanted to play, it’s always just been “yknow having x book would be nice rn”. This update hasn’t solved that issue; I never play wickerbottom because she’s fun, I only play her when her books are convenient. The only thing this refresh has done is exacerbate the issue.

Also, she’s basically a pick and swap now, albeit you can only swap to maxwell. Her books are very easy to stockpile, especially now that the moon quay update has made gathering reeds easier, and you won’t ever need to worry about books running out now that you can recharge them at the bookshelf. Once you’ve crafted the books, there’s really no reason to stay as wickerbottom and not swap to maxwell.

I am 125% certain that Wickers books will no longer be readable by Maxwell when his rework comes, & I would explain that lore wise by him being so obsessed with the Codex Umbra that he has no desire to read any other book.. now what the Codex Umbra is capable of… would be a discussion for when he finally gets his own Rework- but for now: Characters (including Maxwell) should not be able to use Wickers books besides for minor or highly ineffective purposes..

such as Wurt commenting “Glorp word too hard to read I need Book lady to read for me Florp!”

or Maxwell saying “I have the only book I care to read right here and I DARE you to try and pry it from my hands..”

[TeKno667]

For me, Wicker's refresh is incomplete because she's still the same, but with more more books wich is... meh

Klei should add more thing to her, i have a couple of idea in mind :

1-A healing book

2-A more close range combat book (that she can spam more easily than the others book)

3-A "Reinforce" meter (yes yes another meter...) that can resolve the "Maxwell" Problem

4- A REAL downside

But again, cards are on klei's side, those are just random idea from a random player who like the game.

[Frosty_Mentos]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

-snip-

I hate everything about it and I hope that doesn't become a thing. Been so used to Maxwell's ability to read her books that I don't think I wanna part with that. :X Maxwell doesn't seem opposed to reading them either from the sound of it, just not very interested in farming than anything. He just generally hates farming. Other than that Wicker's support to him really brings a lot of utility to his current kit and hopefully will with the future one. Would suck to lose that frankly speaking.

[Fuffles]

Just feels generic and boring, wortox got more love honestly with the beta than wicker imo.
Dont get me wrong the books seem like fun little gimmicks, but it feels like it doesnt affect how you play her really.

[Scrimbles]

49 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

The trinkets are designed around a magic meter that everyone has, and are obtained by a generic channeling system that everyone has, and the context for these items would be incredibly out of place delegated to only one character.

I don't know why you're arguing that Wilson but he ignores temperature and walks fast is better than this rework full of fun books. WX is the most boring character in the entire game. 

You are inventing entirely new mechanics that don't exist to support your argument. Yes, if klei had designed an entirely new mechanic from the beginning that was applied and balanced towards every character, you would have a point.

But that doesn't exist. Because you made up a nonsensical scenario.

Just stop.

[Duck986]

All these topics are so hot that I'm thinking to make some barbeque.

[Scrimbles]

46 minutes ago, Ohan said:

Something i havent seen anyone mention yet: she did get a new downside. Reading any book at 0 sanity spawns a nightmare, this goes beyond the normal cap of number of nightmares and idk if theres an actual limit.

Yes, she spawns one of the easiest mobs in the game, who drop one of the most valuable resources in the game.

It's because it's not a great balance factor, she can still use books at 0 sanity for no extra sanity cost.

[Capybara007]

latest reworks dont seem to even care about interesting downsides at all, webber downside was barely touched in his rework, wolfgang downside is so easy to avoid, wx downside is extremely avoidable aswell, and wickerbottom downside is inexistent

[-Variant]

I'm not honestly 100% on the beta either. I don't think the new books are bad, and I'd be upset if they were removed, but I do have to agree I'm very sad they didn't expand on Wickerbottom.
It almost reminds me of the Wendy/Willow reworks in which their """alts""" got the focus. (Being Abigail/Bernie)

I would've loved some more expansion upon Winkerbottom herself over her books and since this is merely day 1 I'm hoping this can be worked on a little.