Wickers refresh lacks creativity and is a waste of potential, and I am very disappointed.

[Kur0u]

I quite like the new bookcase, I just hoped it wouldn't be like another meter filling rework. Beta just launched, plenty of room for suggestions and changes I'm glad.

 

[xhyom]

27 minutes ago, Kur0u said:

I quite like the new bookcase, I just hoped it wouldn't be like another meter filling rework. Beta just launched, plenty of room for suggestions and changes I'm glad.

 

Yeah, I think it's safe to assume there will be a lot of changes based on how we'll probably have 3 weeks of beta before it's officially released.

[Copyafriend]

I mean i havent actually played this rework admittedly but she seems like shes gonna be my new favorite for lights out. Doesn’t completely solve the problems but provides a fun alternative to having a campfire/lunar staff. Shes got a fun toolbox, and honestly all i wanted was more tools in her kit, and i got it. Personally i also love that it was grumble bees spawned because bee queen’s big weakness is a distraction, and bees dont work well against the queen. 
 

i am not against a more in depth mechanic added, but i dont see a need. Shes a spell caster, she got more spells. Pretty cool imho. Even got a ranged attack unique to her (firey pen) she can reuse books indefinitely. I mean shes pretty well off i think shes good. Not every rework needs wxs level of change. Honestly im glad she didnt get a complete tone shift.

[GelatinousCube]

5 hours ago, Cheggf said:

I don't know why you're arguing that Wilson but he ignores temperature and walks fast is better than this rework full of fun books. WX is the most boring character in the entire game. 

Provides light to himself and others, has more leeway with Clockworks, has a unique downside of being punished far more harshly from rain, can adjust his stats, can do lightning thorns damage to attackers, has a unique charge mechanic, actually benefits from being hit by lightning rather than being punished like everyone else, ignores food spoilage levels, can slow down his metabolism and can eat gears for a massive amount of health, sanity and hunger. Yeah totally just Wilson that can ignore temperature and walks fast...

 

5 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

If not those then she's basically a book slave for Maxwell which prolly could be the main problem to her overall.

I really dislike that Maxwell can read her books.. I sort of get it from a lore perspective but mechanically it really irks me.

He should be FAR less efficient at using them or honestly not be able to use them at all. Would make Wicker less pick and swap and more unique. 

[Curly Bill]

it's not mentioned on the notes, and i havent seen it mentioned here either, but neatly enough, the library station can store books, and then said books will restore usage over time. i like things like that, and i like that whole fire pen mechanic with the fire book.  i want more thing engagement items like that that involve alt-dynamics with the book rather than just, left click to use. Hopefully we will get more of that direction.

[SapoLover]

6 hours ago, goblinball said:

there’s really no reason to stay as wickerbottom and not swap to maxwell.

And stay as Maxwell after that? Why would you do that?
A character doing things that other characters are able to take advantage of don't make them  "pick and swap". Many characters have perks that other characters can take advantage of. And in this case there are just two of eighteen pickable characters that can read her books (three if you consider Wurt). This is not like Winona's catapults or Warly's dishes that every character can use.

[Cheggf]

9 hours ago, Scrimbles said:

You are inventing entirely new mechanics that don't exist to support your argument. Yes, if klei had designed an entirely new mechanic from the beginning that was applied and balanced towards every character, you would have a point.

But that doesn't exist. Because you made up a nonsensical scenario.

Just stop. 

Would you have preferred Wickerbottom didn't get anything new and just had to do a little 5 minute one time detour that she might have been doing anyways to get her already existing power? Is that better than adding new books? Because you keep acting like doing nothing and just passively ignoring temperature is a really fun character because in order to do that permanently you need to one time at the start of the world do what you were already going to do.

Who cares if you need to walk up to a rook and afk near it or walk up to a moon rock and mine it? What's the difference? Why is walking up to something so that you can then do nothing exciting and just passively ignore game mechanics fun but walking up to something so that you can then actively do a variety of things boring?

[Parusoid]

10 hours ago, Ohan said:

Reading any book at 0 sanity spawns a nightmare, this goes beyond the normal cap of number of nightmares and idk if theres an actual limit

laughs in bone helm

[skile]

6 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

I mean i havent actually played this rework admittedly but she seems like shes gonna be my new favorite for lights out. Doesn’t completely solve the problems but provides a fun alternative to having a campfire/lunar staff. 

Now i wonder, does the light creating book make crops grow at night? if so, it might be pretty good.

[_Ellat_]

13 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

The Wigfrid and Wickerbottom reworks are extremely similar in that they both chose to add ontop of what was already there, as opposed to changing the base.

 

The difference is that Wigfrid was an already solid character who was in no need of any major changes, while Wicker has always been little more than what was already on top.

As a wigfrid main I somewhat agree wigfrids buff was minor but her songs are not really that impactful they barely change the character I would be fine with removing her base abilities if it meant providing more to the team with her songs and changing her from tank/bard to a straight up bard.

It's really weird that klei makes powerful characters more powerful yet bad characters usually get mediocre or bad reworks. They changed wickerbottom into another winona type character. You can literally make bookcases for each book in game fill them up with those books and change your character to maxwell.

6 hours ago, DeadWhereX said:

And stay as Maxwell after that? Why would you do that?
A character doing things that other characters are able to take advantage of don't make them  "pick and swap". Many characters have perks that other characters can take advantage of. And in this case there are just two of eighteen pickable characters that can read her books (three if you consider Wurt). This is not like Winona's catapults or Warly's dishes that every character can use.

Well why shouldn't you choose a character that can do the same thing AND more?

[SapoLover]

20 minutes ago, _Ellat_ said:

Well why shouldn't you choose a character that can do the same thing AND more?

What's that "AND more"? If you're already swapping characters to take benefit from other's perks then you're at a point in which Maxwell's perks are not so useful, because there are other more efficient ways to do the same things he can do. That could change after his rework, but we are not at that point yet.

[_Ellat_]

1 minute ago, DeadWhereX said:

What's that "AND more"? If you're already swapping characters to take benefit from other's perks then you're at a point in which Maxwell's perks are not so useful, because there are other more efficient ways to do the same things he can do. That could change after his rework, but we are not at that point yet.

Using books and farming large quantities of rocks logs and nf? While wickerbottom is only able to use books and thats it.

[SapoLover]

38 minutes ago, _Ellat_ said:

Using books and farming large quantities of rocks logs and nf?

 

41 minutes ago, DeadWhereX said:

Spoiler

If you're already swapping characters to take benefit from other's perks then you're at a point in which Maxwell's perks are not so useful, because there are other more efficient ways to do the same things he can do.

 

Bearger, pigs, gun powder and weather pains exists. Ruins are always available for everyone.

40 minutes ago, _Ellat_ said:

While wickerbottom is only able to use books and thats it.

She's also inmune to sleeping. 

[Cheggf]

42 minutes ago, _Ellat_ said:

Using books and farming large quantities of rocks logs and nf? While wickerbottom is only able to use books and thats it.

Bearger is faster than Maxwell. Maxwell is great early game and for people who don't want to wrangle bearger but if you're doing unfun character swapping crap then wrangling bearger is nothing and so Maxwell offers nothing. 

[Faintly Macabre]

Personally I like Wicker's rework way more than Wigfrid's. Wigfrid's songs are a complete bust for me. I'll take a less mechanically exciting but more useful refresh over a mechanically interesting but useless one any day.

I basically never played Wicker before, but not because she's not interesting enough. I was just never impressed by her niche. The new books are excellent (if maybe in need of some balancing tweaks) and the book case is clever. I'm not particularly disappointed to not have to deal with some contrived gimmick involved.

[Scrimbles]

4 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Would you have preferred Wickerbottom didn't get anything new and just had to do a little 5 minute one time detour that she might have been doing anyways to get her already existing power?

No? What are you even talking about? I said nothing of the sort.
 

4 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Because you keep acting like doing nothing and just passively ignoring temperature is a really fun character because in order to do that permanently you need to one time at the start of the world do what you were already going to do.

Point out a single time I EVER said anything about ignoring temperature being a good character. Because I didn't, and you have no idea what you're talking about.
 

4 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Who cares if you need to walk up to a rook and afk near it or walk up to a moon rock and mine it? What's the difference? Why is walking up to something so that you can then do nothing exciting and just passively ignore game mechanics fun but walking up to something so that you can then actively do a variety of things boring?

I'm truly at a loss for words, you're making up complete nonsense again and again.


You are inventing scenarios and putting words in my mouth that were never said.

If you need to make up lies to try and win an argument, you have lost. Don't reply to me.

[Atkvin]

I only remember playing Wicker briefly, but sorta agree this rework doesn't really make her more fun or interesting, but focuses more on just expanding her repertoire of spells, which range from powerful to niche. I haven't seen the crafting recipes for the books, but can't imagine they're terribly hard to obtain. (Not to mention her new bookshelf in the long-term does away with the need for her to even sustain resources for renewing books.)

IMO, Wickerbottom's most interesting quirk outside her books is her insomnia - but mechanically it just ends up being a noob barrier, and if I'm understanding the change right, a buff against Bearger and the moon ghosts whose name I can't remember.

To me at least! - it'd be cool if Wickerbottom had a personal quest to find ways in this magical world to help herself unwind and fall asleep, and when succeeding in doing so, gives her the mental kick to write her powerful books shaping her surroundings, and have renewed energy and youth to take on the world.

[Cheggf]

2 minutes ago, Scrimbles said:

No? What are you even talking about? I said nothing of the sort.

You are literally comparing her to wx. Just stop. 

[Scrimbles]

1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

You are literally comparing her to wx. Just stop. 

Ah yes, because I compared the root mechanics that are core to WX that means everything is fair game. Despite never having said anything about WX's modules actual effects.

That is such a childish way to debate. I'm blocking you because you are repeatedly lying about me, don't try and talk to me again, thanks.

[Cheggf]

25 minutes ago, Scrimbles said:

Ah yes, because I compared the root mechanics that are core to WX that means everything is fair game. Despite never having said anything about WX's modules actual effects.

 

15 hours ago, Scrimbles said:

Modules are designed around a charge system that only WX has, and are obtained by a unique scanning system that only WX has, and the context of those items would be incredibly out of place for any other character.

 

[ImDaMisterL]

Hey everyone, remember to take the high road when posting, follow our Community Guidelines and don't make arguments personal. When we make personal remarks on debates, we run the risk of derailing the topic and generating an uncomfortable environment for discussions.

If you don't want to interact with a user, you can add them to your ignore list.

Thank you for understanding. Let's keep these topics safe and constructive for everyone

[Theukon-dos]

9 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

 

Literally your entire argument. 

Ok, what point are YOU trying to make? That you could apply any character's perks too everyone with a bit of recontextualization? Sure, that's technically possible. But the difference is that you need to give everyone else entire systems for your argument too work, and probably change the entirety of the game's balance around it aswell.

Meanwhile, replace "Book" with "Staff" and you've just made Wicker's books usable by literally everyone. This is why they're saying that Wicker's books aren't a "core mechanic". The only unique interaction Wicker has with the books is the ability to craft and use them. Something that theoretically anyone could do with bare minimum recontextualization. Heck, if Wicker never existed, they wouldn't need any recontextualization at all. 

 

[Faintly Macabre]

8 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Ok, what point are YOU trying to make?

I think the point is that the increased complexity of stuff like meters and drones and what have you are not inherently interesting just because they're ostensibly unique and not simple. I think WX's circuits are a little more interesting than he's giving them credit, but otherwise I agree. 

[maxwell_winters]

15 hours ago, goblinball said:

there’s really no reason to stay as wickerbottom and not swap to maxwell.

And what exactly a benefit of doing that? Low health, weak summons and a small sanity regen that's not even worth it. 

[_Ellat_]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Bearger is faster than Maxwell. Maxwell is great early game and for people who don't want to wrangle bearger but if you're doing unfun character swapping crap then wrangling bearger is nothing and so Maxwell offers nothing. 

Bearger is not always available and usually dies because he gets killed by treeguards maxwell shouldnt be able to open wickerbottoms bookcases.