Should wanda be nerfed?

[Cheggf]

9 minutes ago, Eughstein said:

so you guys came to any conclusion here?

I think everyone here can definitely agree that Wanda is one of the characters of all time.

[Eughstein]

5 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

some xbox players do not play the game

anything new?

[Duck986]

13 minutes ago, Eughstein said:

anything new?

if you bought a DST for console - sell the console, go buy an adequate pc and buy DST in steam 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, Duck986 said:

if you bought a DST for console - sell the console, go buy an adequate pc and buy DST in steam

only if that person will spam during years how bad is the xbox version outside of the xbox forum

[Cloakingsumo198]

4 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

Snip

The calvary decides to arrive.

Spoiler

 

[00petar00]

So many people in this thread have never played Wanda and on paper she does seem much stronger and not a glass cannon, i can't really blame them as i thought the same when she was released.

First 30-40 hours of my Wanda playtime i probably died over 25-30 times, that may be because i am bad at the game and i did this on release before i started using nightmare armor and i was always old wanda with football helmet so that is why. I did manage to collect enough red gems for LGAs that i was able to keep this up. I don't think most newer players would be able to keep up playing her while being old all the time, which you need to be to use her full power.

I will not argue this, Wanda is OP in a certain sense, compared to other characters in late game i don't think there's anyone else i'd rather be, but don't forget that most players don't ever reach late game, to them she'll be average or even below average because anyone newish trying to use her to the fullest would have issues surviving in old age.

Her alarming clock is strong but to be used at full potential, you'll probably die quite a lot in 500-1000 ingame days if you are always staying as old wanda. 

Backtrek and rift watches are quite strong but don't forget that if you are not playing solo, who knows how many winters would it take to set up a decent sized teleportation network, even if you play solo, at most you'll have a few in first winter depending on how many mactusk spawners there are in your world and how close they are.

Ageless watch healing, i never thought of this as too strong also considering her own aging, i died a decent number of times just because i forgot to heal in base, its not as easy as it seems to manage if you are always old and additional watches just take too much inventory space, not that i am against making more for boss fights but i only carry 2 with me usually.

Backstep watch is quite situational, in some fights like FW it is great but honestly if Klei ever thought of nerfing Wanda, i'd be happy if they just removed this watch, it can be useful in some other situations but i ended up not using it that much and i don't even carry it in my inventory.

Second chance watch, this is great if you have two Wandas, oherwise i don't really like this watch that much since i mostly play solo and i think that it is just a pudding on top, she really doesn't need this or backstep watch.

For you to reach the full potential of Wanda you need a decent time and resource investment while other characters reach their powerspikes much sooner.

[Cloakingsumo198]

38 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

For you to reach the full potential of Wanda you need a decent time and resource investment.

People with any capacity to ruins/magic rush:

Spoiler

 

[HowlVoid]

8 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

I hate the fact that Wanda is overpowered and took away unique thing from other particular characters (by doing what they do but better), but I voted "no". Why? Mainly for 2 reasons: 1. Overpowered is a state defined by comparison and therefore nerfing isn't the only way to balance things; 2. Even if nerf is needed, it may be lazy type and harm experience, or well-thought and enrich experience (mainly due to choices being not obvious), and majority of suggestions about Wanda or Wendy belong to "lazy" approach, which I can't agree with.

Also I think everyone here can agree that game becoming more fun to play is the goal in the end, regardless of whether one suggests nerf, buff, tweak, writes long posts with analysis, etc.

So let's look at Wanda's upsides, downsides and their combination working together closely.

Overpowered is being thrown around way too loosely. I have yet to see how Wanda breaks the game's balance. You can't just compare something to something else claim it's overpowered because it's more functional, the game isn't that black and white. There way more factors to consider.

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1. Teleportation network established with backtreck and rift watches.

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Saving travel time is very powerful upside, as well as the fact that one can skip the way back and all the danger that is there (relevant in ruins and atrium, but escaping from sandstorm before desert goggles available - to fight hounds, for example - also counts), but each watch costs tusk and has cooldown, therefore is far from being free and braindead to use. Also by skipping travel time one skips all content along the way which can be enjoyable experience, so in a way cost of teleportation includes lost alternative; however, if one is tired of some parts of the game but wants to enjoy others, I think being able to do this choice - skip content - is a good thing.

But this is no doubt overpowered compared to means of teleportation other characters have available, with or without Wanda on the server. Telelocator focus and staff are unusable in the caves and between shards, can create only a single 2-way connection on the surface and very costly to use one, which means no proper teleportation network is possible, especially since wormholes can't be telelocated and only limited number of them is generated per world (so one can't reliably count on wormholes to extent possibilities of telelocator focus and staff). Wormholes aren't viable alternative either, because, again, they are randomly placed, can't be relocated, can't generate in the caves, lunar island, ocean biomes, even certain mainland biomes like oasis desert, and there is fixed number available per world no matter how big or small shard is. Lazy deserter despite being reward for fighting a boss is not viable for solo player either and is literally only the way to lower one's enligtement and nothing else. In multiplayer lazy deserter still can't connect points on different shards and needs one person to go all the way to activate deserter for others. But at least it's viable in certain situations and can be viable alternative to rift watch (again, multiplayer and one shard only) because of different initial cost, resource cost per use and no cooldown.

Backtreck and rift watches are already fun to use to many people, as I can see, and simple nerf would only make it less fun. On the other hand, non character-specific means of teleportation are not fun or impossible to use. I think the answer to this problem is clear: buff/rework general means of teleportation. For example, telelocator focus can be made usable in the caves and between shards, lazy deserter usable between shards and solo, wormholes telelocatable, etc. They still won't outclass Wanda's network because of cost per use, time one would need to setup such network, other restrictions influencing precision of use (like number of wormholes and proximity to different telefocuses/lazy deserters). And Wanda's teleportation network would still complement, not rival general teleportation network because of restrictions other means of teleportation have and other uses of the latter (telelocating mobs to set up different farms, using lazy deseter to lower sanity, etc.).

I will agree that Wanda has one of the best if not the best utility in the game. I would like for other characters to have a means to teleport with greater ease but I can see how that would make Wanda less unique. 

However the backtrek watches require tusks forcing her network to be mostly a late game thing. This is incredibly important which absolutely must not be overlooked. Due to most resources being brought closer to base, in the very end game once she a network set up, travel time becomes play time. 

The lunar island becomes mundane, pearl's island no longer serves any purpose, the ruins hold nothing you don't already own, fuel weaver has been defeated multiple times, etc etc. 

I have reached the point we're I have a backtrek watch to every important location but I rather just walk or sail there. There comes a point where cutting on travel time isn't beneficial and yet she has no other utility to speak of. The backtrek watches are hardly op. 

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2. Alarming clock power, which consists of damage, range, attack rate, refuelability.

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While attack rate is slightly lower than for melee weapon, extremely high damage still makes it very powerful in terms of damage per second , in fact, the most powerful weapon for Wanda which heavily overshadows everything else to the extent that there is basically no choice in terms of weapon dps; long range allows to land first (and often the last needed as well) hit to a lot of things without any sort of kiting, trick attack pattern of bosses and effectively cheese them (Klaus stuck on it's own sack, Celestial Champion in 3rd phase using it's melee attack and missing entirely while Wanda just stands and hits), interrupt movement of mobs (rook's charge without damage, finishing off fleeing mobs like mac tusk). On top of that the only upkeep needed is refueling weapon with nightmare fuel, which is easier to get than for any other character due to shadows having low health and very short attack range; this results in Wanda landing more hits with higher safety before shadows teleport compared to other characters; teleporting shadows maintain distance needed to land even more hits on them, and hits themselves are very heavy to the point of shadows dying in 3 hits. On top of that alarming clock is more efficient in terms of every resource per point of damage compared to dark sword in any of Wanda's forms.

This thing is heavily overpowered, but that is not the only problem: alarming clock basically eliminates every other weapon choice Wanda could make, which quickly becomes repetitive and boring; it also eliminates the need to kite due to combination of long range and high damage on mobs with small health pool and attack range, and even for mobs with medium health pool it's often enough to kite once and destroy mobs inbetween it's attacks and/or before mob comes close enough to attack again.

On the other hand, existing weapons are balanced well and offer different not obvious choices to player: ham bat is infinite weapon but spoils, and spoils quite fast dropping below 50 damage treshold rather quickly, one of the materials for it spoils quickly too; morning star is mediocre weapon for dry invironment, but has the highest dps in wet environment and on targets that are always wet (debths worms), which makes player plan fighting periods more than with any other weapon (+ morning star is the only weapon that can't be buffed with voltgoat jelly, but this is sad rather than fair and interestiong, in my opinion), also morning star is unique in terms of emitting light and being able to charge mobs, as well as it's durability based on time in active use rather than hits or spoilage, so the more skilled player is the more one can get out of this weapon; glass cutter has high damage but low durability on majority of targets, can't be crafted on the go in caves at all and on the surface until lategame (Celestial Champion kill); dark sword has high damage but mediocre durability, and until mid-to-late game is very expensive weapon to use due to living logs cost (treeguards have low chance to spawn early game, mushgnomes require considerable time to check entire grotto (which can be dangerous too after archive switch) and their spawners can't be relocated, Halloween event isn't available most of the time on most servers and due to totally normal trees growing slowly such farm requires a lot of time to produce enough living logs for active everyday usage); thulecite club has good damage, durability and has unique property in the form of shadow tentacles boosting dps and landing additional hits, but has high cost and is craftable only near stationary crafting station in dangerous place (the latter point makes weapon underwhelming, and therefore thulecite club could use significant durability buff or a way to craft it on the go/in more convenient than particular ruins part place); spear has low damage, but no other drawbacks, good durability, extremely common materials,can be crafted on the go and has unique property of being recyclable to ice and fire staves; tentacle spike has good damage, mediocre durability and no drawbacks other than being uncraftable, as well as has no unique features compared to other weapons.

Bosses and mobs were also designed with only melee weapons in mind, and stunlock changes that needed to be done shortly after Wanda's release are proof of it, as well as CC 3rd phase deciding to use melee attack when lacking range to hit standing still Wanda too, not to mention very short attack range of vast majority of mobs.

Since other weapons are mostly ok in comparison between themselves and each of them has situation when it shines (but this situation isn't equal to 100% of the time), it's alarming clock that needs to be changed: either nerfed in a smart way, or tweaked. If one just nerfs overall damage and/or range, this would just make it either not viable, or simply not rewarding enough to use, or would lead to alarming clock loosing it's uniqueness compared to melee weapons. Therefore when it comes to possible nerf, I would prefer nerfing damage and range to tool damage per hit and melee in young form, nerfing damage to around 50 per hit and keeping the same range in the middle-aged form and keeping the same damage and range in the old form. This way dark sword would be viable alternative, as well as other weapons gaining chance to shine for Wanda; Bee Queen fight would have at least 2 different ways to rush/do somewhat efficiently, etc. But I would prefer tweak for alarming clock. Imagine if first hit with AC in old form was just regualar hit, but started cooldown during which each consecutive hit with AC healed mob/boss and applied vulnerability to mob; after mob/boss healing entirely or end of cooldown (could be visual like ageless cooldown) another cooldown started and during it each weapon deals increased damage in range of 3x-4x damage healed (to make up for healed health and compete with normal weapons; example: deal 5000 damage to Fuelweaver with any weapon, heal this with alarming clock, deal in next few seconds around 15000 damage and kill him in 1-2 rounds, alternative: be left with fully healed FW if you don't time your attack well and he summons shield); on top of that, condition could be added for alarming clock to refresh heal cooldown or switch to normal damage. That would make AC not the only choce for fights while simultaneously allowing synergy, not rivalry with other weapons. On top of that finally certain bosses wouldn't be as repetitive to fight since one would need to think about more things than just simply dealing damage and dodging/raising own health.

You talk about there being no choice but as Wormwood main all I use is darkswords. There is no reason for me to use anything but a darksword or an ornery beefalo as soon as possible. The shield of Terror exists too which is a side-grade to the hambat.

You can speak for yourself if you claim the alarming watch is boring when it isn't doing anything different every top tier weapon isn't already doing. You dodge by moving back and forth and attack by pressing a single button how is one not to choose the highest DPS weapon? With every character I will come to a point where I only use darkswords, how is it any different?

You can cheese Klaus by placing a lure plant, not to mention cheesing one of the easiest bosses in the game is hardly commendable.

I can't address every point you make because they are either exaggerations (killing a rook easily, really? Because getting 2 gears is overpowered?), misinformation (I can't always land 6 hits on dragonfly due to the lower attack speed), or are just in a vacuum claiming something is overpowered because it has a better function that an existing weapon but the same outcome it achieves isn't overpowered. Easily killing a rook to get 2 gears isn't overpowered, not at all.

As I stated previously to another forumer you are looking at the weapon as a separate thing from Wanda rather than an extension of her. 

She is a fighting character the alarming watch is her perk. 

Wig: permanent 1.25x damage this is comparable to young Wanda with her alarming watch. 

Wolfgang: Consistent 2x damage which is comparable to old Wanda and her alarming watch.

Warly: Can exponentially increase his damage based on the number of players with his spices.

When you look at a larger picture you can see that the alarming watch is on an even playing field with its own unique function and mechanics. Of course this isn't as far as some characters go such as Wig providing the whole team life leech and increasing weapon durability while the alarming watch is refualable weapon. You need to look at it as an extension of Wanda, it's hardly overpowered.

 

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3. Ageless watch and everything related to healing.

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On one hand:

  - Wanda's health is constantly depteting,

  - AW healing is interrupted by receiving damage,

  - watches are unstackable and cooldown is present,

  - AW has initial cost;

but on the other hand:

 - for general purposes a single AW (Wanda starts with one) used on cooldown gives 32-12=20 years per day, which is equal to 50 hp per day or 12.5 hp per cooldown,

  - Wanda can craft as many ageless watches as she wants and starts with additional time pieces helping to craft extra watches (+ archives are very safe zone to get extra thulecite and red gems are generally viewed as garbage outside of crafting early purple gems, the only relatively weak point is marble which is not a problem thanks to marble trees and earthquakes),

  - after initial cost AW is comptelety free to use (unlike souls, perogie, etc.),

  - Wanda needs less inventory space than other characters due to:

        - alarming clock being easily refuelable (no need for 3+ dark swords or other weapons),

        - alarming clock having average (but not below average) durability,

        - Wanda herself having damage modifier resulting in less resources overall used in a fight (no need for extra lazy explorers and weather pains in Fuelweaver fight, extra armor including night armor, etc.),

        - Wanda having infinite close range mean of teleportation in the form of backstep watch (which can be used both as a mean of "tanking" without wasting armor durability and health and a way to escape dangerous situation and, again, save armor durability, health, other resources), which results in less armor pieces in the inventory for "tanking", no lazy explorer (and extra copies) needed for Fuelweaver fight, less AW needed for healing in the inventory, etc.

        - Wanda having infinite long range mean of teleportation which allows her to bring more resources than other characters to particular place by teleporting back and forth between desired place and base (walking regularly to place + teleporting to and from base (almost 2x effective inventory), using more pairs of watches to transport even more resources in no time).

        - Second chance watch when used on others result in occupying single inventory slot just because it's a single item on cooldown instead of item + materials for extra copies (compare SCW to life giving amulet + red gems + gold + nightmare fuel, telltale heart + glands + grass + healing items, etc.).

         which she can dedicate to additional AW and healing;

  - Wanda keeps her AW as well as other watches after death. Which is just too convenient: one can easier than other characters return to place of death to retrieve remaining resources, since her weapon is with her, she has free healing and can teleport straight to base for extra armor and weather/darkness protection from res place provided she has backtreck watch leading to base (which is not hard to do)).

  - Everyone, not only Wanda, can loose health over time due to freezing, overheating, starvation, burning, etc., as well as being hit before animation of eating completes. Wanda has no disadvantage compared to everyone else when it comes to stopping damage over time, i.e. can eat, use thermal stone/insulation clothes/fires of different kind/dishes to raise/lower temperature, can avoid standing in fire, etc., and has advantage over everyone else when it comes to avoiding being hit. I don't seriously consider tanking temperature/starvation damage with jellybeans just because one is lazy to eat and has a chest full of jellybeans, do I really need to explain why?

All listed above result in Wanda's:

  - inventory being cluttered to the same extent compared to other characters outside of boss battle, cluttered less during boss battles despite inventory restrictions of ageless watches;

  - better survivability than other characters (excluding Wigfrid) because of the lower cost of healing items per hp restored (0 cost per use after initial setup) and inventory space used (1 AW gives plenty of healing over time, and using more than 1 AW in boss battle is very viable and cheap). In other words, she can maintain/raise hp for free, but other characters always have to pay price per hp restored over and over again.

  - more safety compared to other characters since Wanda:

       - has same 150 hp (let's be honest, she doesn't need to be below 25% health even in some boss battles, not to mention regular fights),

       - even after death keeps all her watches including the one for free healing (+ weapon and means of teleportation of varying range),

       - has extra ways to avoid damage compared to others which makes healing less relevant for her.

As to what to do whith that, I like @Shosuko's idea of ageless watch being uncraftable and never leave Wanda's inventory. Another option with similar result would be inability to hold more than 1 ageless watch: that way one still would be able to disassemble/put away from inventory AW for a short period of time, as well as accumulate AW through celestial portal, but use only one at a time unless one stands in front of chest full of AW, which means relying much more on teleportation and avoiding damage. It would shape Wanda's gameplay in right direction (she was supposed to be glass cannon after all, glass cannons don't tank) in the same way Warly's inability to eat non-crock pot food shapes his.

 

Less free to use that a pirogie or souls? Oh right because pierogie has a 4 minute cooldown and souls have 3 minute cooldown, right?

I fail to see how individual blue mushrooms on a cooldown are overpowered. You are grossly exaggerating, again. You even claim infinite long range... Are you serious? Do you even know what infinite long range is? 

I can't even address everything you wrote again because it all boils down to exaggerations. Better survivability than Wigfrid? Wigfrid can't sidestep date or something? 

Didn't you make a loooooong thread about how damage isn't the end all stat? Not to mention Wolfgang does more damage that'll Wanda, so is Wolfgang op too? 

Wanda can't tank damage over time, other characters can heal with food just before death. 

There was a reason why pre refresh Wolfgang was still better early game than Wanda. Healing via blue mushrooms is still the easiest and best healing early game. The indestructible nature of hambats overall saves time vs having enough resources for better weapons.

There is a reason why Wig is very important in a team early, mid and late game. Her powers exponentially increase with every added player same as Warly. 

Reducing Wanda to one ageless watch is going to break her. We're talking about blue mushrooms on a two minute timer for crying out loud. 

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4. Close range teleportation with backstep watch.

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This is very powerful ability and very thematic; it also has unique property of distance changing with age and requirement to manipulate one's position and to plan movements beforehand; I think it's perfect as is and it itself doesn't need any change, however, the fact that Wanda is supposed to stay old for maximum benefit turns it into Wortox-like soul-hop "tanking", but better. To change this situation I think changing alarming clock and/or giving other Wanda's forms something unique in terms of fights would be enough (since backstep watch is used in fights), for example, my idea of alarming clock tweak and/or adding other shadow weapons with unique properties that would change fight compared to general ham bat/dark swork simple attacks (thulecite club has potential that was never used).

This is power, but I don't think it's overpowered compared to abilities of other characters, and it's also one of the most well-thought mechanics in the whole franchise, as well as very thematic perk, so I wouldn't touch this in order to not break.

 

5. Magic equipment affinity.

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I think it's ok, but unnecessary perk, after all Wanda benefits from low sanity more than most of other characters and her favourite food is sanity food, which encourages to stay at high sanity if one prefers this to insanity (and this is enough help). Wanda also saves travelling time and completes fights in less time, which means less sanity is lost due to wearing night armor over time, and due to resource-free close range teleportation she can afford to use armor with less % of protection. She also doesn't really need 95% protection (which turns 25% of hp into effective 100% with 80% protection) since she is supposed to be risk/reward character, as well as since she has numerous ways to avoid damage even without armor (teleportation with backstep watch, big range of alarming clock). To shape her gameplay, I would remove her affinity to shadow equipment (and give it to Maxwell, it would make more sence for him to be better user of shadow and magic equipment).

To sum up this long post: Wanda's design is great, but execution lacks in certain aspects and leads to serious gameplay problems (lack of choice, monotone of gameplay because of that), and because of that she needs tweaks (mostly); well-though nerf, even though unnecessary, could help to shape her gameplay as true "glass cannon" (right now she is just "cannon"), but random nerfs out of hate for character, jealousy of whatever definitely are not a way to go.

Based on everything you've said I have to wonder if you even play Wanda. 

You're claims of overpoweredness are completely off and I wonder if you know what the terms means. Overpowered would mean that something breaks the game and nothing that Wanda does breaks the game.

Teleporting which requires many in-game before it can replace traveling completely by which then is no longer important.

Damage which is comparable to other characters such as Wolfgang but with a few extra steps and restrictions. How much damage does Wendy do on an ornery beefalo again?

Exaggerations after exaggerations.

Overpowered would be of Wanda's weapon truly had infinite range, overpowered would be if Wanda could kill bosses without needing to dodge, overpowered would be if Wanda was completely unaffected by the mechanics in the game, that is what overpowered is. 

41 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

People with any capacity to ruins/magic rush:

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Again, player skill ≠ character power

[SecretPizzaMan]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

Backtrek and rift watches are quite strong but don't forget that if you are not playing solo, who knows how many winters would it take to set up a decent sized teleportation network, even if you play solo, at most you'll have a few in first winter depending on how many mactusk spawners there are in your world and how close they are.

You either have 4 mactusk camps or 1. You are right in the case of 1 mactusk camp however in a triple Mac world I was able to farm 9 walrus tusks in the first winter through setting up a backtrek watch directly to the walrus camps.

 

1 hour ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

People with any capacity to ruins/magic rush:

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What? Being good at ruins rushing rewards you with ruins gear? How could we have forgotten.

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

I will agree that Wanda has one of the best if not the best utility in the game. I would like for other characters to have a means to teleport with greater ease but I can see how that would make Wanda less unique. 

I like her suggestion to make wormholes able to be teleported.  Same they should make Lazy Deserter do something in solo.  I like having a sanity tank, but it'd be cool if you could like charge a stone or something, so you could activate it to return to the closest lazy deserter without someone turning it on.

imo this would do a great job of helping out late game worlds without stepping on her toes - since she has no sanity penalty, and can make any number of backtrek watches she'd still be superior, but someone could play other late game characters and have enough mobility where they don't have to switch to her for the convenience it provides.

idk unless they actually make sailing good... or something <_<

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

I like her suggestion to make wormholes able to be teleported.  Same they should make Lazy Deserter do something in solo.  I like having a sanity tank, but it'd be cool if you could like charge a stone or something, so you could activate it to return to the closest lazy deserter without someone turning it on.

imo this would do a great job of helping out late game worlds without stepping on her toes - since she has no sanity penalty, and can make any number of backtrek watches she'd still be superior, but someone could play other late game characters and have enough mobility where they don't have to switch to her for the convenience it provides.

idk unless they actually make sailing good... or something <_<

Making wormholes moveable would help so much in cutting all that time waste into finding the worlds that you want to play for long term.

As long as they are only moveable to the locations they can normally spawn in.

That would indirectly make Wanda backtrek watches a bit less useful, they would still be great since there are no wormholes on lunar island and also teleporting from overworld to ancient pseudoscience instantly.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

I like having a sanity tank, but it'd be cool if you could like charge a stone or something, so you could activate it to return to the closest lazy deserter without someone turning it on

that sounds like a telelocator focus clon

edit: nvm it works in the caves so im in

[Cheggf]

6 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

People with any capacity to ruins/magic rush:

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Isn't it weird how the only person saying she should be nerfed doesn't actually have any arguments and only has disingenuous one liner meme responses to everything? If all you've done as Wanda is ruins rush then congratulations, you are now Wolfgang or Wendy but you have to be careful with your health. It's only after hours of grinding mactusk over what is likely several years that Wanda's power really comes out.

[Cloakingsumo198]

24 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Isn't it weird how the only person saying she should be nerfed doesn't actually have any arguments and only has disingenuous one liner meme responses to everything? If all you've done as Wanda is ruins rush then congratulations, you are now Wolfgang or Wendy but you have to be careful with your health. It's only after hours of grinding mactusk over what is likely several years that Wanda's power really comes out.

Look buddy I ain't gonna be putting any more effort into this than necessary already. 

I haven't even said to nerf Wanda except jokingly and half-assed cause she is really not that hard of a character for this whole thread to be crying that she's soooo "hard" or "punishing". 

When there is still the rest of the cast some of which are either far more punishing or just as fragile if not more and not nearly as interesting.

You're the one who either undermines something entirely or blows it out of proportion.

My whole stance has been if you can't handle being old stop playing on edge or get good.  Same thing with her whole ageless clock debacle because it really ain't that bad.  She gets all these tools to fit her nimble glass cannon playstyle yet the backstep watch that allows for certain dodges is her least liked watch for Wanda players lol somebody even said they should remove it.

I'd rather everyone else in the roster actually gets buffed or has more added to them than for ANY character to be nerfed.

My true opinion is on the first page of this thread lol its been there since the start. But you can keep crying.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, Cloakingsumo198 said:

be crying that she's soooo "hard" or "punishing".

nobody cries in  this forum...well if we ignore all the tears from the wolfgang topics

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Look buddy I ain't gonna be putting any more effort into this than necessary already. 

I haven't even said to nerf Wanda except jokingly and half-assed cause she is really not that hard of a character for this whole thread to be crying that she's soooo "hard" or "punishing". 

When there is still the rest of the cast some of which are either far more punishing or just as fragile if not more and not nearly as interesting.

You're the one who either undermines something entirely or blows it out of proportion.

My whole stance has been if you can't handle being old stop playing on edge or get good.  Same thing with her whole ageless clock debacle because it really ain't that bad.  She gets all these tools to fit her nimble glass cannon playstyle yet the backstep watch that allows for certain dodges is her least liked watch for Wanda players lol somebody even said they should remove it.

I'd rather everyone else in the roster actually gets buffed or has more added to them than for ANY character to be nerfed.

My true opinion is on the first page of this thread lol its been there since the start. But you can keep crying.

I'm the one crying when you've been baitposting nonstop 300 times per page for the entire thread?

[Cloakingsumo198]

14 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I'm the one crying when you've been baitposting nonstop 300 times per page for the entire thread?

I'm allowed to post as I please so far and I haven't done anything but say what I think same as anybody else here in this thread.

I've gone in depth and I've made short posts you can infer whatever you like but I've made "my" point.

It's you Cheggf and Arubaro who are constantly trying to call me out "here" in this thread instead of just posting about Wanda or whatever lol.

[Gashzer]

8 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Snip

Your trollface profile pic sums up your forum presence perfectly Cloakingsumo198 

[Cloakingsumo198]

3 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Your trollface profile pic sums up your forum presence perfectly Cloakingsumo198 

I haven't even done anything to em.....

[SecretPizzaMan]

Sheesh stop antagonizing cloakingsumo.

[abrocator]

Here’s a fun Wanda nerf idea: every game year she loses some of her max year/max health.  So maybe every game year she loses two years.  After one year she dies at 78.  After two years she dies at 76.  Eventually you won’t even be able to reach Old Wanda before dying!

But she can reverse this second-order aging by going on some kind of fountain of youth quest.

Problems:

1. It would be a lot of work to implement whatever this fountain of youth quest would be for just one character.  Maybe it would just end up being crafting a really hard to craft one-time-use watch…  Maybe involving one ingredient from the ruins, one from the water desert ocean and so on.  That could end up being pretty meh
2. Maybe she would still be powerful in the hands of veteran players, but she might become too much of a hassle/too much upkeep for less experienced/more casual players.  It would be silly to “balance” the game around people who have 1000+ hours in the game
3. The celestial portal becomes a pretty big problem… If you can just “swap to Wanda” in order to reverse the second-order aging then there’s no point

[Vultureneck]

I dunno Wanda's really not that hard to play, after getting used to her gimmick she really isn't and more difficult than the other characters. Also I can't remember if she has any real downsides that aren't easily mitigated. 

[SecretPizzaMan]

6 hours ago, abrocator said:

Here’s a fun Wanda nerf idea: every game year she loses some of her max year/max health.  So maybe every game year she loses two years.  After one year she dies at 78.  After two years she dies at 76.  Eventually you won’t even be able to reach Old Wanda before dying!

But she can reverse this second-order aging by going on some kind of fountain of youth quest.

Problems:

1. It would be a lot of work to implement whatever this fountain of youth quest would be for just one character.  Maybe it would just end up being crafting a really hard to craft one-time-use watch…  Maybe involving one ingredient from the ruins, one from the water desert ocean and so on.  That could end up being pretty meh
2. Maybe she would still be powerful in the hands of veteran players, but she might become too much of a hassle/too much upkeep for less experienced/more casual players.  It would be silly to “balance” the game around people who have 1000+ hours in the game
3. The celestial portal becomes a pretty big problem… If you can just “swap to Wanda” in order to reverse the second-order aging then there’s no point

Isn't there a fountain of youth in Hamlet?

Maybe I can add another idea, what if each consecutive use of a watch drains years off of Wanda, a backtrek takes 10 years, a backstep takes 1, alarming clock speeds up the passive ageing by 4x whever it's being used.

[Cheggf]

5 hours ago, Vultureneck said:

I dunno Wanda's really not that hard to play, after getting used to her gimmick she really isn't and more difficult than the other characters. Also I can't remember if she has any real downsides that aren't easily mitigated. 

Would love to see your all bosses run as Wanda.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

Would love to see your all bosses run as Wanda.

For the 500 millionth time bosses aren’t the only thing you can do in DST, and in fact klei intends for you to gather a group of players and fight those bosses, so please take the elite “Now do it as Wanda” Status and silence it. 
 

Wanda becomes one of, if not “the” best characters you want to have on a team when fighting bosses, a couple SCW’s and 2-3 other players and she becomes the “Thanos” of DST, “Wilson & has died”

Not on My Watch!

I would even put her up there with Wortox, Wolfgang & Wendy as being the best team characters to bring to a boss fight.

For anything outside of boss fighting (by herself…) Wanda is superbly good.

Just like how on day 1 Wes is the single best character in the entire game to scout the map with thanks to free Speed consumable that doesn’t even require gathering crafting ingredients to use, For the OTHER characters in this same Category Wormwood, WX78, Goose Woodie, Walter & Pre-Rework Wolfgang they all required gathering/crafting, and was locked behind needing to kill some spiders or something for Monster Meat. But as soon as Wes spawns he can create speedy balloon and go fast- However… take Wes to a Boss fight Alone and let’s see how well you fair.

I think it’s important to note that boss fights aren’t all the content in DST, and call me crazy but I remember a time when “Giants” didn’t exist in the franchise to begin with.. I really wish Klei would go back to those times..

Instead of every content update focusing on one or two boss fights while other types of content takes the back burner.