Should wanda be nerfed?

[reallychina]

 

47 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Yeah it does come at a great cost. Just because you like to lie and pretend like it's impossible to die as her doesn't make it true. If you really want to be mad at damage bonuses for little to no cost go complain about Wendy and Wigfrid. Even Wolfgang, based on your weird interpretations of how things are.

P.S. Not sure where you're getting "highest damage in the game" from. Last I checked 75 is in fact smaller than 100.

Except i don't pretend it's impossible to die, i said that she already has safe and strong options as young or middle aged. Her old age, which is entirely optional, should come with bigger risks, that's all. IF old age was not optional and you were always close to dying, then she would not need more penalties. the key here is OPTIONAL. You can't opt out of wolfgang mightiness meter, of wigfrid eating restrictions etc

 

I don't know what common reusable weapon you're using that has 100 damage

 

41 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

pick one lmao

the problem is reading biased opinions

the only extraordinary thing about wanda is having a late game tp network which for you is easier since you "dont waste your real life time on idiotic rng"

 

i picked one. nice to know you conveniently forgot already that you said i exploit and save/load

 

the problem with wanda is that she does not have a balanced ratio of strengths and weaknesses. this is not even a particular problem of wanda but rather a general problem of balance. high risk/high reward is not a new concept.

 

18 minutes ago, Ohan said:

Welcome to the dumpster fire that is this thread 

Every single critique of Wanda gets rabidly refuted like it’s a life-and-death situation 

 

Ikr what's with the zealotry smh

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 minutes ago, reallychina said:

the problem with wanda is that she does not have a balanced ratio of strengths and weaknesses. this is not even a particular problem of wanda but rather a general problem of balance. high risk/high reward is not a new concept.

nobody said the opposite read my previous comments to see what i think about her, that is a "problem" with almost every character an wanda isnt where that shines the most when you have characters with dumb downsides like -25% damage but with +40% damage buff, not being able to eat meat but actually being able to eat non meat foods, being vegetarian when veggies can easily mass produced, etc. And again, middle age wanda is dumb, has too much power for just being at 75% hp but isnt that op because you are only getting 100 damage at the cost of not being able to heal whenever you want, if that is op then just delete wigfrid, wolf and wendy

11 minutes ago, reallychina said:

i picked one. nice to know you conveniently forgot already that you said i exploit and save/load

knowing all the time your temperature and hp without checking the clock is game changing plus i didnt say you exploit save/load

16 minutes ago, reallychina said:

Ikr what's with the zealotry smh

[reallychina]

55 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

nobody said the opposite read my previous comments to see what i think about her, that is a "problem" with almost every character an wanda isnt where that shines the most when you have characters with dumb downsides like -25% damage but with +40% damage buff, not being able to eat meat but actually being able to eat non meat foods, being vegetarian when veggies can easily mass produced, etc. And again, middle age wanda is dumb, has too much power for just being at 75% hp but isnt that op because you are only getting 100 damage at the cost of not being able to heal whenever you want, if that is op then just delete wigfrid, wolf and wendy

knowing all the time your temperature and hp without checking the clock is game changing plus i didnt say you exploit save/load

 

So again, her highest damage and "highest" weakness is completely optional. that's what makes it too strong for the penalty, paired with the fact that she already has way more than above average damage and resilience as young and mid. You can't opt out of other characters weaknesses.

You did specifically say: "i really wanna see people like you playing without server mods, rollbacks or cheese methods"

 

save/load is rollback. i don't rollback. i don't cheese/exploit anything.

 

The status thing i use because i want to know the seasons and moon phases. It's things i could keep track of on a piece of paper but that would be stupid. While knowing your exact health and, more importantly, temperature helps a bit, i can just as well do without them but i find them good because from a rp perspective you would know exactly how hurt or cold you are. You'd not run around aimlessly and figure out you're about to freeze and consequently die in a couple of seconds. The biggest "offender" would be forcing triple mac, but then again i could get that by restarting the map several days in plus like i said it's stupid rng and i'm not playing slots, i'm playing a survival game. If i wanted slots, i'd go play slots. And biome generation was not created with wanda's clocks in mind to begin with.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

17 minutes ago, reallychina said:

You did specifically say: "i really wanna see people like you playing without server mods, rollbacks or cheese methods"

that, atleast from my perspective, doesnt mean that accuse you to use them

18 minutes ago, reallychina said:

So again, her highest damage and "highest" weakness is completely optional. that's what makes it too strong, paired with the fact that she already has way more than above average damage and resilience as young and mid. You can't opt out of other characters weaknesses

her higher damage is achieve by being being at low health (arround 5 hits away of death while using night armor) and to keep that form you need to wait until you reach 73 to heal. Her middle age form is safer but only achieved 100 damage more or less (i dont really know, i only use that form yo craft) so if that is op to the point of needing a nerf what about wigfrid which has 90 damage with default atack speed while using dark swords, 200 hp, 25% armor, ability to heal with meat based food, potions or jellybeans(lmao), stats recovering while hitting plus more stats recovering if you use her songs in boss fight; wolfgang which has 200% damage, 200hp, ability to wear an armor as powerful as night armor but without sanity penalty and cheaper recipe and can recover health by eating all kind of foods or potions in addition with gathering perks; wendy has 150hp, can recover hp from the same sources than wolfgang, has -25%damage but +40% while hitting with abi, a follower that adds aoe dps up to 40 (less damage for every enemy joining the fight) which can tank up to 600damage (or thousands if they are many and trigger her shield) plus elixirs; winona can kill most bosses by being afk after some mining. Now lets talk about other perks not related to fighting: woodie can explore faster since the beguinning and reach the most important ocean content without wasting resources, has easy access to living logs, minerals, logs, can fight hordes of enemy (and in certain scenarios is better than Abigail); maxwell trivialize resource gathering and sanity management, his 75hp doesnt matter cuz he can wear night armor almost like wanda and eat healing food

Is Wanda op? for sure but aswell as many others in terms of survival or gathering. I would like a nerf? yeah like i would like a nerf for wendy and deeper game mechanics for wigfrid but that doesnt mean that klei should do it for just their low % of players that are bored of surviving the same way over and over

btw. i dont think that people who uses young form should be punished, that shouldnt affect you and people who know how to play dont play with young wanda, what is the point? being safe of what? there isn't random dangers so being at 1hp or 100 doesnt matter when you have like 1min before hounds or deerclops/bearger comes (and those 2 bosses can be ignored, in fact, most of the time they ignore you and you need to find them) and you have your torch/starcaller/mooncaller/chilled amulet on hand

and what triggers me isnt defending wanda because as i said millions of times i wish they didn't release her with that busted weapon (there is no sense about releasing a "dont get hit" character with a weapon that helps her on that) but what triggers me is reading things like "free healing", "she is safe to use", "blablabla" when all the characters are waaaaaaaay safer and can achieve beat the same bosses by just farming few veggies. Her only totally unique thing is her teleportation but is mostly late game content and i prefer having powerful late game perks than having another wortox/willow/walter which sucks in mid and/or late game

[Pig Princess]

@HowlVoid, before I say anything on the matter, I would like you to open your eyes and read my post not diagonally, or at least read all highlighted text I so conveniently picked for people to get general idea (if one is lazy to read whole thing). You are just ranting and inattentive to the point of fighting the opposite of what I said.

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

However the backtrek watches require tusks forcing her network to be mostly a late game thing

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

but each watch costs tusk

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

I can see how that would make Wanda less unique

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

And Wanda's teleportation network would still complement, not rival general teleportation network because of restrictions other means of teleportation have and other uses of the latter (telelocating mobs to set up different farms, using lazy deseter to lower sanity, etc.)

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

I have reached the point we're I have a backtrek watch to every important location but I rather just walk or sail there

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

Also by skipping travel time one skips all content along the way which can be enjoyable experience, so in a way cost of teleportation includes lost alternative

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

forcing her network to be mostly a late game thing

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

time one would need to setup such [non character-specific] network [which forces it to be mid- to lategame thing too, just like Wanda's network]

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

you claim the alarming watch is boring when it isn't doing anything different every top tier weapon isn't already doing

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

long range allows to land first (and often the last needed as well) hit to a lot of things without any sort of kiting, trick attack pattern of bosses and effectively cheese them (Klaus stuck on it's own sack, Celestial Champion in 3rd phase using it's melee attack and missing entirely while Wanda just stands and hits), interrupt movement of mobs (rook's charge without damage, finishing off fleeing mobs like mac tusk)

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

You dodge by moving back and forth and attack by pressing a single button how is one not to choose the highest DPS weapon?

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

On the other hand, existing weapons are balanced well and offer different not obvious choices to player: ham bat is infinite weapon but spoils, and spoils quite fast dropping below 50 damage treshold rather quickly, one of the materials for it spoils quickly too; morning star is mediocre weapon for dry invironment, but has the highest dps in wet environment and on targets that are always wet (debths worms), which makes player plan fighting periods more than with any other weapon (+ morning star is the only weapon that can't be buffed with voltgoat jelly, but this is sad rather than fair and interestiong, in my opinion), also morning star is unique in terms of emitting light and being able to charge mobs, as well as it's durability based on time in active use rather than hits or spoilage, so the more skilled player is the more one can get out of this weapon; glass cutter has high damage but low durability on majority of targets, can't be crafted on the go in caves at all and on the surface until lategame (Celestial Champion kill); dark sword has high damage but mediocre durability, and until mid-to-late game is very expensive weapon to use due to living logs cost (treeguards have low chance to spawn early game, mushgnomes require considerable time to check entire grotto (which can be dangerous too after archive switch) and their spawners can't be relocated, Halloween event isn't available most of the time on most servers and due to totally normal trees growing slowly such farm requires a lot of time to produce enough living logs for active everyday usage); thulecite club has good damage, durability and has unique property in the form of shadow tentacles boosting dps and landing additional hits, but has high cost and is craftable only near stationary crafting station in dangerous place (the latter point makes weapon underwhelming, and therefore thulecite club could use significant durability buff or a way to craft it on the go/in more convenient than particular ruins part place); spear has low damage, but no other drawbacks, good durability, extremely common materials,can be crafted on the go and has unique property of being recyclable to ice and fire staves; tentacle spike has good damage, mediocre durability and no drawbacks other than being uncraftable, as well as has no unique features compared to other weapons.

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

misinformation (I can't always land 6 hits on dragonfly due to the lower attack speed)

[no quote of mine in the entire post that claims of the same amount of hits to Dfly with alarming clock can be made and the like]

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

Less free to use that a pirogie or souls?

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

after initial cost AW is comptelety free to use (unlike souls, perogie, etc.), [more free to use in terms of resources spent]

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

because of the lower cost of healing items per hp restored (0 cost per use after initial setup)

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

has extra ways to avoid damage compared to others which makes healing less relevant for her [by this quote I addressed cooldown]

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

You even claim infinite long range... Are you serious? Do you even know what infinite long range is? 

try to read the whole phrase, which was

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

infinite long range mean of teleportation

which means range of teleportation, not weapon range or whatever you imagined. "Close range" - teleportation withing one screen, "long range" - teleportation offscreen across the map (potentially across the entire map) and between shards. Reading the whole thing without rage or rush helps to understand meaning, no need to thank me.

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

Didn't you make a loooooong thread about how damage isn't the end all stat?

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

weapon for Wanda which heavily overshadows everything else

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

there is basically no choice

see? I'm talking about choice, not "raw damage is OP please nerf", moreover

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

long range allows to land first (and often the last needed as well) hit to a lot of things without any sort of kiting, trick attack pattern of bosses and effectively cheese them (Klaus stuck on it's own sack, Celestial Champion in 3rd phase using it's melee attack and missing entirely while Wanda just stands and hits), interrupt movement of mobs (rook's charge without damage, finishing off fleeing mobs like mac tusk)

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

the only upkeep needed is refueling weapon with nightmare fuel, which is easier to get than for any other character

see? I'm talking about other aspects of weapon, not only about damage

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

it also eliminates the need to kite due to combination of long range and high damage on mobs with small health pool and attack range

combination of properties is not the same thing as one property alone, like apple and orange together on a plate is not the same state of plate as just apple or just orange on a plate.

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

Better survivability than Wigfrid?

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

(excluding Wigfrid)

excluding means "with exception", as far as I know. Read with your eyes, please

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

Wanda can't tank damage over time

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

Wanda has no disadvantage compared to everyone else when it comes to stopping damage over time

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

other characters can heal with food just before death

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

In other words, she can maintain/raise hp for free, but other characters always have to pay price per hp restored over and over again

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

could kill bosses without needing to dodge

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

Celestial Champion in 3rd phase using it's melee attack and missing entirely while Wanda just stands and hits)

which is a lot of damage, how much times one needs to dodge greater gestalt attack compared to other characters?

Now come contradictions in your own claims:

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

I will agree that Wanda has one of the best if not the best utility in the game

||

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

I have reached the point we're I have a backtrek watch to every important location but I rather just walk or sail there.

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

There comes a point where cutting on travel time isn't beneficial

||

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

I will agree that Wanda has one of the best if not the best utility in the game

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

but as Wormwood main all I use is darkswords

||

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

but a darksword or an ornery beefalo as soon as possible. The shield of Terror exists too

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

it has a better function that an existing weapon

||

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

the same outcome it achieves

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

it isn't doing anything different every top tier weapon isn't already doing

||

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

with its own unique function and mechanics

and finally simply false claims:

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

You can't just compare something to something else

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

There way more factors to consider

pretty sure I can compare things, especially when I'm taking into account those factors. In fact, that is why my posts are so long, that is why I highlight stuff for people to better understand me and not be lost in the sea of text.

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

Easily killing a rook to get 2 gears isn't overpowered, not at all.

Except it's every rook and much more gears, as well as gears being important resource. In fact, tanking rooks in the ruins is the biggest source of damage taken. By the way, Abigail dies horribly to rooks unless you constantly dump big heal on her, and even then she dies horribly to 2 rooks. Abigail also takes quite a lot of damage from knights. Just so you know next time you speak about Wendy.

At this point you can claim that every resource and enemy is not important and use it as an excuse to "prove" literally anything.

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

at the weapon as a separate thing from Wanda rather than an extension of her

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

You need to look at it as an extension of Wanda,

why? Looks like 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

vacuum claiming

to me.

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

Wanda can't tank damage over time

false, she can. She can't heal during tanking damage over time, but it's not the same claim, and I adressed it anyway - earlier - even before your post.

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

Healing via blue mushrooms is still the easiest and best healing early game

do you really think so? They are situational, but hardly best or something

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

Reducing Wanda to one ageless watch is going to break her

that is simply not true. You have at least 2 extra ways to avoid damage compared to anyone else and good armor, some of which Wanda uses better than anyone else. Not to mention single ageless watch healing is net positive, and yes, non-spoiling blue mushroom every 2 minutes on demand any time and place is significant compared to absence of any healing.

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

Damage which is comparable to other characters such as Wolfgang but with a few extra steps and restrictions

Hm, you meant damage is comparable to only Wolfgang, damage + range + utility which comes as soon as you build shadow manipulator and stays with you forever? Do you claim it's hard to make magic station or what? And at the same time you claim that getting infinite healing food is effortless, gears are not important, etc. Weird combination of claims, I should say.

The only question worth pointing out in you rant is this:

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

How much damage does Wendy do on an ornery beefalo again?

But that is achieved with animation cancelling (unreliable) and hohestly seems like a bug rather than feature just because of the way game processes mounted entities. Or oversight. I wouldn't mind if Wendy did +10% damage on a beefalo just like anyone else on beefalo with petal debuff.

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

The lunar island becomes mundane, pearl's island no longer serves any purpose, the ruins hold nothing you don't already own, fuel weaver has been defeated multiple times, etc etc. 

looks like you are burnt out of DST. Maybe you should take a break or play other character that isn't overpowered to extent of making game boring. Or just in general try another character, even if you disagree that Wanda is overpowered.

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

I can't address every point you make because they are either exaggerations [...], misinformation [...], or are just in a vacuum claiming

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

I can't even address everything you wrote again because it all boils down to exaggerations

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

crying out loud

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

I have to wonder if you even play Wanda

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

You're claims of overpoweredness are completely off and I wonder if you know what the terms means

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

Exaggerations after exaggerations

these are either baseless claims or insults. You are also repeating them too many times if your only goal was to deliver some information. Looks like you are on a rant, sir. And I'm not interested in discussing anything with person incapable to stay polite even if you disagree. Even if I'm wrong, I will only accept polite chill discussion and actual - real ones - arguements, not claims that you are lazy to respond or just random statements without support from facts.

Speaking of which, I wonder if you hate me for some reason. I still remember you adviced me to burn in private discord just because I disagreed with you, despite the fact that I never said anything toxic to you and was polite and patient. Do you have some irl problems and no way to solve it or something? No need to view people in the internet as punchbags to release your anger upon. After all, even behind the screen and thouthand kilometers away, we are all humans bearing name "sapiens" and living in society.

Edit: damn, if I quote someone's quote of my comment, it is referrend as that person's quote, not mine. Ops.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Spoiler

 

just wanted to make the joke <3

 

 

 

[Pig Princess]

On 1/15/2022 at 7:39 PM, Cloakingsumo198 said:

People with any capacity to ruins/magic rush:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

No need for ruins even, archives + generally running in the caves until gems/marble fall from ceiling is enough, one can even mine stalagmites/tall stalagmites for extra rolls on gems meanwhile (and get gold and rocks meanwhile). Another option to get marble is to die and resurrect on touchstone, it gives 2 pieces. For more experienced players there is Dragonfly to kill for gems, and even though it's considerably harder than simply being into caves and mining rocks, it's very fast and reliable method, so I thought it's worth to point out.

[SmasherX]

A friend of mine bought Wanda 2 days ago, but he didn't played the game for that long, so he is dying so often that I'm laughing constantly. I warned him that she wasn't beginner friendly xD

Anyway, as it is Wanda is a character that rewards experience and her mechanics are dope, requiring constant decision making and living on the edge. I don't think any of her mechanics should be removed, if anything some details retunned in a way that don't dmg her gameplay experience, that is very fun. If she is nerfed dumbly, klei will be trashing the best character they ever made.

 

Now, one of the main reasons to main Wanda is the backtrack watches, that save a lot of time walking. Thanks to her apearence the game is ceasing to be a walking simulator, which is amazing in a matter of game design. And a good way to balance it out with other characters would be reworking the lazy deserters, that are very much obsolete now. If you could click on a deserter on the map to teleport there at the cost of desert stones (or maybe a new item like a desert totem made with purple gems and desert stones if you want to make it expensive - maybe you could have to craft it only once but refuel with nmf idk) it would give the deserter the buff that it already needed before and make fast travels more acessible to all characters.

[Echsrick]

49 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

just wanted to make the joke <3

 

 

 

just click on your mousewheel

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, Dr.Medic said:

just click on your mousewheel

ye is how i usually scroll and it took several seconds xDDD

[ImDaMisterL]

Hey everyone, remember to follow our Community Guidelines and to be respectful and take the high road while posting. When discussions get personal, it's easy to derail and lose the point of the topic.

Thanks for understanding, and have a great day

[Cloakingsumo198]

38 minutes ago, ImDaMisterL said:

Hey everyone, remember to follow our Community Guidelines and to be respectful and take the high road while posting. When discussions get personal, it's easy to derail and lose the point of the topic.

Thanks for understanding, and have a great day

Spoiler

 

Got it.

 

[Mike23Ua]

Nerf/Buff topics have to take into account both a characters Early game & Late Game play so both perspectives can be presented without either one outclassing the other, If a character is too powerful starting out (as I feel Wanda is since she spawns with a pre crafted watch and 3 parts for 3 more clocks) then there may be Validation behind wanting them Toned Down.

Meanwhile: If a Character is Incredibly strong starting out but falls out of usefulness late then Maybe the Late Game needs Buffing without touching the already powerful early play.

If klei feels a character needs changes they will change them as they deem necessary, and I’m sure they have their reasons.

I play SMITE & Apex Legends: I’m used to characters being Buffed/Nerf’d and even completely redesigned from the ground up every other Season.

Because of such: It doesn’t really bother me if a Character in DST gets Nerfed/Buffed, because UNLIKE Smite & Apex KLEI isn’t making changes to them every other freaking update.

You guys have to stop being so hostile towards one another be nice, respectful & let’s all at least “try” to enjoy the content Klei puts their resources and time in to providing for us.

Thank You 

[minespatch]

16 pages...

[Yuuko]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Nerf/Buff topics have to take into account both a characters Early game & Late Game play so both perspectives can be presented without either one outclassing the other, If a character is too powerful starting out (as I feel Wanda is since she spawns with a pre crafted watch and 3 parts for 3 more clocks) then there may be Validation behind wanting them Toned Down.

Meanwhile: If a Character is Incredibly strong starting out but falls out of usefulness late then Maybe the Late Game needs Buffing without touching the already powerful early play.

Well lets talk about what early and late game are in DST - because those terms are a bit nebulous for this type of game.  Everything is open world, you can kinda do anything you want right out the gate.  There is no leveling up or grinding rng drops, so how much time has to pass before you decide we're out of the "early game" yet?  How much time does it take for the characters to hit their stride?  Lets take a look a the roster. I didn't forget Wormwood - I just haven't played him so I don't really know sry.

Wendy, Maxwell, Wortox, Woodie, Willow, Wigfrid, and Wes all start with their core items existing on their character with zero set up required.  Not that they don't have room to grow, but they can instantly get to work utilizing their character strengths.  If you're going to drop into a world late these characters are a great choice as they can instantly focus on the seasonal adaptation and relevant goals without needing any time to focus on setting up character perks.

WX, Wicker, Walter, Webber, Wurt, and Wolfgang all require a bit of setup.  With a good game plan they should be able to hit their stride first autumn.  If you drop into a world late you might struggle between unlocking your characters goals and dealing with seasonal challenges and other relevant tasks.

Warly and Winona require a LOT of set up.  These are characters who could devote an entire season to their craft and still have work to do.  If you're dropping into a world with these characters you probably wanna start day 1 (or start with a different character) because you need a LOT of time to hit your stride.

With this break down I'd say we have 3 decently defined classes.  Early game characters can have potential left to unlock, but they start with most of their power front loaded at spawn.  Mid range characters need to put in some effort to get going, but can usually get done in the first autumn.  Late game is a bit of a leap.  Getting production for dishes and spices, or catapult sets erected across the maps is a serious investment.  Late game is 1-2 years game time.

Wanda starts with a healing watch but most foods heal, this really isn't anything special.  There are a LOT of options to catch 50 healing in a day if you need, and honestly if you *need* 50 healing each day early game you have other problems and I wouldn't suggest Wanda as the solution.  Besides that watch what does Wanda actually DO for you otherwise?  Nothing.  You've got to do her thing which is searching for red gems, marble, t2 magic, and archives / ruins.  Once you get these you're basically done and can do whatever else you want.

Where does Wanda fit in?  Mid range - 100%, no real debate on that.  Sure, her teleports are late game, but her real power is the AC and a few watches.  Her effort is on par with WX getting some gears from ruins.  Neither wants to join Winter / Spring since the caves aren't easy to deal with then, but a summer start isn't bad if they can get into a cave entrance (and no one else has hit the ruins / archives yet.)

Not that this has anything to do with her risk / reward play style or her total power level as a character - just an assessment of where she fits in the curve of early / mid / late game power spikes.

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

Sure, her teleports are late game, but her real power is the AC and a few watches. 

Why is her real power the alarming clock? There are already several other combat characters who can do similar if not superior damage for much less effort. The thing that sets her apart from the rest of the roster is her rift watches.

[Yuuko]

1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

Why is her real power the alarming clock? There are already several other combat characters who can do similar if not superior damage for much less effort. The thing that sets her apart from the rest of the roster is her rift watches.

The rift watches are certainly super powerful - but do you really think its more impactful to have access to backtrek and riftwatches vs her alarming clock?  If they took one of those two away, which do you think would drop her player base more?

[Cheggf]

13 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

The rift watches are certainly super powerful - but do you really think its more impactful to have access to backtrek and riftwatches vs her alarming clock?  If they took one of those two away, which do you think would drop her player base more?

That question is conflating fun and power. The AC and her pinch damage are the fun parts of Wanda, so of course she would be a lot less fun if they took them away. But if you're looking at the character's genuine strengths and ignoring what's fun or not, then the rift watch is by far the reason to pick her. If you just want to deal damage and don't care about fun or rift watches then other combat characters would accomplish the same if not more than Wanda, with very little reason to pick Wanda.

Also, her pinch damage still works with dark swords so I think she probably still would have more people playing her with rifts and swords than just ACs. There would be an uproar from people who don't understand the character and think the AC actually has more damage, but really it would just make her use living logs to make weapons and get rid of cheese in a few situations.

[Mike23Ua]

31 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

The rift watches are certainly super powerful - but do you really think its more impactful to have access to backtrek and riftwatches vs her alarming clock?  If they took one of those two away, which do you think would drop her player base more?

Okay deal take away Alarming Clock and instead make it a new weapon all characters can use, let her keep her crazy time travel shenanigans though.. 

(Also I’m only part joking with this..) If Wanda wasn’t the ONLY ONE who could use AC.. I bet you’d see a significant drop in her player base..

Yeah she’s fun: But lag still exists and I’d rather play as a character that I don’t have to fight lag & my own ticking down age clock at the same time.. 

With any character NOT Named Wanda I can just keep running away from whatever is trying to kill me until the lag spike stops, with Wanda… in Addition to Lagging, Your Health is also draining and unlike every other character: You can’t run forever till the lagging stops.

If your lucky enough to have a pc powerful enough to NOT Lag as Wanda good for you.. but I have one of the Newer Xbox consoles and pay a fortune for top speed internet yet I STILL run into incredible amounts of lag (which for some reason is worse when playing Wanda..)

Wanda’s existence if I had to take a rough guess was KLEI’s “Test” to see if they actually COULD add the currently non-existent in DST Shipwrecked & Hamlet Poison DoT effect.

Because that’s literally what WANDA is.. a character always suffering poison health bleed out.

From my personal experience with Lag & Wanda I can see why klei has been Hesitant to add Poison to DST.. 

But hopefully someday they’ll release a new engine update for the game or something that relieves the lag and allows for Poison DoT to be added to the game without issue.

In it’s current form however: Wanda is a prime example WHY poison from SW and Hamlet has not been ported over yet.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

11 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

In it’s current form however: Wanda is a prime example WHY poison from SW and Hamlet has not been ported over yet.

poisonous animals are mostly from tropical enviroments which are what inspired hamlet and sw mobs and biomes. In RoG classic map they dont fit (maybe in desert biomes ), maybe in a future klei will add poisonous swamps or some kind of tropical island but wanda, a character that they just though about few months ago, isnt the reason behind the lack of poison mechanics in this game.

actually having wanda is a good reason to add poison since it will be an interesting danger for her (obv adapted so isnt a 100% death) and for other characters like warly or wormwood

[Yuuko]

5 hours ago, Cheggf said:

That question is conflating fun and power. The AC and her pinch damage are the fun parts of Wanda, so of course she would be a lot less fun if they took them away. But if you're looking at the character's genuine strengths and ignoring what's fun or not, then the rift watch is by far the reason to pick her. If you just want to deal damage and don't care about fun or rift watches then other combat characters would accomplish the same if not more than Wanda, with very little reason to pick Wanda.

Also, her pinch damage still works with dark swords so I think she probably still would have more people playing her with rifts and swords than just ACs. There would be an uproar from people who don't understand the character and think the AC actually has more damage, but really it would just make her use living logs to make weapons and get rid of cheese in a few situations.

Her teleporting and AC are both extremely strong and fun.  You think other combat characters eclipse her and I think you'd better give some reason for that b/c I just don't see it.  Her damage is literally top tier in the game in addition to her whip's unique range advantages.  I don't see how any other combat character can eclipse her in raw solo combat potential at this point.  Wolfgang used to have advantages of speed, and not requiring setup, but after his rework there is no reason to pick Wolfgang for fighting when you can just be Wanda instead.  Warly *can* eclipse her damage with a wet target, but he doesn't have many other combat advantages to help him through.

I mean, saving a bit of time is great and all - especially in the grand scheme of things - but do you really think you'd pick and play a character purely for rift watches?  You think Wanda is not more defined by her AC than her rift watch?  Just read through the thread, how much of this is about damage, cheese, and whether she's actually at risk with her AC advantages compared to the potential of her late game teleporting?  Sure, they are powerful, but they are only a time saver, and they are super late game.  You'll have your AC and start slaying bosses long before you have even the start of a network of rift watches.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

Why is her real power the alarming clock? There are already several other combat characters who can do similar if not superior damage for much less effort. The thing that sets her apart from the rest of the roster is her rift watches.

maybe not her real power but her power spike. Is more important to get AC than teleport watches since these ones are just a vanity for late game confort while AC changes her gameplay from being a hambat slave peasant to a BDSM GILF

[HowlVoid]

Damn I step away from the forum for one day and my name is getting dragggged. Ok, @Pig Princess let's get to the bottom of this.

First of all... Gurl, I said burn as in:

I was trolling before the conversation even started and you even acknowledge that I was trolling before you decided to engage with me. AND this is in a discord where trolling is a daily occurrence. Burn as in haha got 'em.

Not to look for the nearest lake of fire. 

Given the context I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that I wanted you to combust. 

Second of all please don't start drama, the rules state that if you have any personal beef with someone to keep it private, especial if it's from outside the forum. That goes for you too @SecretPizzaMan, not to mention that anything between me and Toro should stay that way. As far as I can tell we don't have any grudges with each other and all you're accomplishing is trying to start drama. Should either of you continue to have personal issues with me my DMs are wide open.

Thirdly, I like how your ideas of me being insulting is me saying "for crying out loud" (which is meant to show my emotion of being overwhelmed with the echo chamber that is Wanda op. How is that even an insult?) or "do you even play Wanda"? 

And yet you built a whole narrative, psychological evaluation, and my super villain origin story around a single word you misinterpreted. You are dragging my good name across the mud and all around town and apparently I'm the bully? Ok.

Lastly I did rush through your comment and for that I apologize, although there wasn't a whole lot I got wrong. We agree on a few thing but most of my points still stands and that's that Wanda isn't OP. I also like how you did a segment where you say I'm contradicting myself but you compare my preferences with how I feel on the mechanical balance of an item. Saying I don't like to travel via backtrek watch and also saying that it's one of the best utilities in the game are not contradictions.

And yes you don't seem to know the definition of Overpowered and, no, that's not an insult.

Overpowered in the context of gaming is as follows:

You have only two guns in a game, Gun A and Gun B.

If Gun A not only has all the same stats on Gun B but they are all also 1 point higher, does that make Gun A op by comparison? No. That may make Gun B redundant but that's it. if Gun A also gives you god mode does that make Gun A overpowered? Yes. 

I have been playing video games all my life and people still use overpowered wrongly. Something can be stronger by comparison but strength and overpowered do not go hand in hand.

To determine overpowered you need to compare the item with the game and it's mechanics and determine what breaks, if anything. If an item overrides mechanics or breaks the laws of balance than yes, that item is broken. 

The AW does not deal game breaking amounts of damage. There are situations where damage can go beyond what the alarming watch can do, before you even introduce character swap. Just compare Winona's catapult by comparison, yeah I know cost what you're going to say about the cost of catapults and how they're immovable. The point I'm trying to make is that although the AW watch is incredibly good and refualable it does not break the game's balance. 

Does the AW allow Wanda to override mechanics like sanity, hunger, weather, combat, etc more so than any other character or beyond what is intentional by the game? If no, then it's not overpowered. You can say it's very strong or the strongest weapon in the game but it's not overpowered. 

And I main Wormwood not Wanda.

Consider yourself educated, no need to thank me (your words btw "no need to thank me" part, but apparently I'm the toxic one.)

[Eughstein]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Okay deal take away Alarming Clock and instead make it a new weapon all characters can use, let her keep her crazy time travel shenanigans though.. 

(Also I’m only part joking with this..) If Wanda wasn’t the ONLY ONE who could use AC.. I bet you’d see a significant drop in her player base..

Yeah she’s fun: But lag still exists and I’d rather play as a character that I don’t have to fight lag & my own ticking down age clock at the same time.. 

With any character NOT Named Wanda I can just keep running away from whatever is trying to kill me until the lag spike stops, with Wanda… in Addition to Lagging, Your Health is also draining and unlike every other character: You can’t run forever till the lagging stops.

If your lucky enough to have a pc powerful enough to NOT Lag as Wanda good for you.. but I have one of the Newer Xbox consoles and pay a fortune for top speed internet yet I STILL run into incredible amounts of lag (which for some reason is worse when playing Wanda..)

Wanda’s existence if I had to take a rough guess was KLEI’s “Test” to see if they actually COULD add the currently non-existent in DST Shipwrecked & Hamlet Poison DoT effect.

Because that’s literally what WANDA is.. a character always suffering poison health bleed out.

From my personal experience with Lag & Wanda I can see why klei has been Hesitant to add Poison to DST.. 

But hopefully someday they’ll release a new engine update for the game or something that relieves the lag and allows for Poison DoT to be added to the game without issue.

In it’s current form however: Wanda is a prime example WHY poison from SW and Hamlet has not been ported over yet.

Can you stop complaining how console version of dst is bad in post about Wanda?

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Eughstein said:

Can you stop complaining how console version of dst is bad in post about Wanda?

Okay well- Wanda is bad because of Lag.. there I fixed it for you? Happy..? No mention of platform whatsoever- Just Wanda+Lag=Bad Day to Be Wanda.

Simple Maths.

Why? Because unlike literally every other character who can just keep running away from whatever they’re lagging back towards until the lag stops and they can kill it, WANDA is constantly losing Health in ADDITION to the lag.. so-

Are you really safely far enough away from that pack of hounds chasing you to rewind your age clock or are you going to A: Be lagged back dead center of them & Die or B: Continue running away from them run out of Age and die over dead from old age?

Either way.. Your Dead, you can thank your lag for that- Regardless of if your playing on a new 2022 Pc, a PC from year 2012, 2002, 1992, Xbox Series X, Xbox Series S, Xbox One, PS5, PS4, Nintendo 64, or Atari 2600.