Should wanda be nerfed?

[Duck986]

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halp.

[Spino43]

10 minutes ago, Duck986 said:

18 pages...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

halp.

We should not join this warzone. I am gonna go enjoy playing with Wanda tho

[Kemthazul]

5 hours ago, JustExo said:

I think Wanda's perks all act as too much if a cushion between her and the downside of being a glass cannon. Its like if they made a glass cannon, but then put a ton of pillow cushions around it, and just put it in a safe

Man, I hope the rest of the upcoming refreshes have the same design philosophy as Wanda's.  sorry Wolfgang you're the sacrificial lamb for the rest of the characters to be power crept

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Kemthazul said:

Man, I hope the rest of the upcoming refreshes have the same design philosophy as Wanda's.  sorry Wolfgang you're the sacrificial lamb for the rest of the characters to be power crept

They have a valid point about a Glass Canon that isn’t a glass canon.. and do you know WHY these “Pros” are saying just use LGA? Because Klei made it so Wanda can wear them indefinitely without them losing durability specifically just as her because “It’s a Wanda thing..”

The thing is Wanda has too much utility and abilities to be considered an actual glass canon, she has too many safe ways of Reviving, Now IF the game automatically forces a Wanda player to instantly revive from any SCW they have on them and that watch is destroyed after her revival-

THEN Wanda players would be at a TRUE Risk Vs Reward playstyle.. you Know that you are Rewarded with higher Damage running around on your Death Bed, but is it worth the RISK of having one of your clocks break needing to be re-crafted again?

As she stands right now… Wanda would be like I’m playing Hel in SMITE who the developers thought would be a absolutely GREAT Idea to give HEL the powers of IZANAMI another Smite god who deals more damage the closer she is to dying..  now why did I mention HEL in particular? Because HEL has a both a “Light” & “Dark” stance, she can Switch Between to Heal herself and her teammates, or a Dark Stance.. to absolutely wreck anyone in sight with… now could you imagine for a second if HEL who can heal herself & Deal massive damage ALSO dealt MORE Damage like Izanami the closer HEL was to dying?

It automatically Invalidates WANDA as being a true “Glass Canon”

And in fact since this thread is asking for Nerfs to Wanda: If her design intention is to be a true “Glass Canon” then LGA’s shouldn’t work on her Period end of Story.., and SCWs should automatically be consumed when she dies, making dying at all as Wanda feel like you’ve truly suffered a great & significant “Risk” Vs the “Reward” of playing at a low health Playstyle.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

[Pig Princess]

On 1/15/2022 at 11:36 AM, Pig Princess said:

random nerfs out of hate for character, jealousy of whatever [for example, lack of game knowledge] definitely are not a way to go

 

14 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Now IF the game automatically forces a Wanda player to instantly revive from any SCW they have on them and that watch is destroyed after her revival

 

15 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

LGA’s shouldn’t work on her Period end of Story

 

Spoiler

 

[HellHeater]

On 1/12/2022 at 11:05 PM, Dr.Medic said:

willow has her personal body guard and can use lighter to burn enemys
wolfgang can use dumbbells
abigall can attack multyple things by standing still
wicker could technicaly use some books to attack things, like tentacle and lightnin
woodie could use an never breakin axe, or become were moose and become the weapon
wes can use some ballon tricks to do damage
maxwell has shadow fighters
wagstaff can build a fire shoting googles
wigfrid is wigfrid
woodlegs has a never breakin cannon
wilba can become a weapon
wormwood has aoe traps that can hurt players
wheeler has that weird gun
winona has catapults as weapons
walter has a slingshot
wanda has a whip

so technicaly most characters do have there special weapon, its just not direct sometimes

where warbucks

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 minutes ago, HellHeater said:

where warbucks

his special weapon was his funny tongue and was nerfed by butthurts 

[HowlVoid]

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

@HowlVoid, first of all I'm not interested in drama, I was just curious because it was the second consecutive time of such attitute (first time - rude and inattentive to person you are speaking to, second - inattentive and superficial reading + hostility). I also considered that being a weird joke back then after I left discord, therefore I didn't say anything bad about you anywhere, after all, I'm not interested in framing you as villain or whatever you imagined. Moreover, you could guess from my whole style of speech here and in discord that I'm not into such "jokes", it is just as rude as if you were cracking jokes about dead glommer when speaking to Terra B Whelch or claiming that Wurt as a character should be deleted when speaking with ArubaroBeefalo, i.e. extremely rude. Now, ironically, your claims and latest post are full of exaggerations of what I wrote, which again supports "rant" explanation.

But as long as you are not willing to continue this, I'm fine with it. Also I genuely don't know what "guuurl" meme means.

Yet you keep continuing the drama? As I said if you have a personal problem with me dm me.

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

I also didn't say anything about who you main. I don't care as long as normal conversation can continue. I don't main Wortox, but I played him for quite a lot of time. Am I not allowed to speak about him? I don't think so. Therefore Wormwood (or whatever, honestly) main speaking about Wanda is perfectly fine to me.

Yeah you did, you said that perhaps I'm bored of the game because I only play Wanda or something.

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

I myself don't main Wanda, but I played Warly long before Wanda became a thing and know very well what means limited healing/dedicating multiple slots to healing items. Blue mushroom every 2 minutes? What about blue mushroom every 3 days (2 consecutive meaty stew)? What about 2 blue mushrooms every 2.5 days (meaty stew + honey ham)? And no, I'm not bringing fishing rods, honey, farm vegetables, etc. with me to any point of the map because Warly doesn't have a luxury to spare some inventory, nor can he teleport really quick to base and back to eat healing food and heal back to full. And no, going out of my way across half the map for ingredients for healing is not an option, I actually want to accomplish something, therefore you know what I do? Play glass cannon Warly without all benefits of old/middle-aged/young Wanda. Same even for Wendy: I'm not going out of my way for blue mushroom forest or grassland. I played Wormwood in Hamlet and SW for significant time too, where he doesn't have easy access to healing via rot, bat bats and miniscule access to healing salves and compost wraps with little upsides. I played Wortox in the ruins and multiple times "muddy sacred" biome (the one deep behind clockwork biomes with a lot of fissures, ponds, slurpers and some debths worms) didn't spawn. Keep in mind that console worlds are much smaller than pc worlds as far as I know, therefore on pc one needs more souls to travell/clear the same area with the same method compared to console (although I never played on console and can't be 100% sure, I'm guessing from difference between large and small worlds on pc). And after all of this playtime Wanda release happens and I see "glass cannon" with "limited healing".

 

I never said her healing was limited, your putting words in my mouth. I've said and continue to say that Wanda's healing is on par with everyone else's aka infinite.

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

Healing rate is limited, true, but to glass cannon level? When she doesn't even need to go out of her way to heal? When she has multiple ways to avoid damage unaccessible to other characters?

Kiting isn't available to everyone else?

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

When she can still brute force a problem with multiple AW?

Like any healing food?

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

I had some experience with Wanda but it only confirmed my initial thoughts. By the way, I'm not advocating to restrict her to strictly 1 ageless watch, 1 ageless in the inventory would mean that she could have ageless watches in the chests at key points of the map/base and she would still be able to teleport there to fully heal (or to whatever extent you wish). I also wrote that it is not as necessary to touch as fixing other aspects of her kit, nor said I that ageless watches healing was overpowered.

 

Never said you said that her aw was overpowered only that you say Wanda is overpowered, which she isn't.

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

Speaking of overpowered. If one thing is abysmally better than all others, then I think it's overpowered.

 

Thats not what overpowered is and it only applies to Wanda, it doesn't touch the Meta for everyone else.

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

Simply being better isn't sufficient condition to be overpowered, true,

This is a contradiction to what you just said above.

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

however, when difference is that large, it is.

You keep going back and forth on this.

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

I wrote "overpowered is a state defined by comparison". That means that even if you think I'm misusing term "overpowered", you had perfectly fine opportunity to get what I'm writing, i.e. that I meant abysmally large difference that is unacceptable and should be addressed with one way or the other.

Not sure how slightly higher darksword dmg is an abysmally difference.

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

Call it whatever you like, you can't deny that teleportation/mobility and combat utility difference between Wanda and others is abysmal,

That's not Wanda's fault, the other characters need better utility.

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

while downside difference is not, and by far. It's not even about Warly, DS Wormwood, etc., it's about the fact that healing needs of other characters for both everyday use and boss fights are exaggerated by particular people, I guess to make Wanda look more "glass connon-y".

No character could be a glass Cannon is the player can kite.

Player skill≠character power

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

I played Wilson for reference some time ago, and you know what? I don't remember when I were mass cooking/eating healing food (>2 pieces per multiple days). It's not that hard, the only fight you really need significant amount of healing is Bee Queen, not even Fuelweaver (all for solo). But Wanda has ways to heal/avoid damage in this fight, in fact more numerous ways to avoid damage than others. That is also why I mentioned other watches in "ageless watch" section, because AW in vacuum seems pretty harsh restriction, but in reality it isn't because of the rest of Wanda's kit. And again, I didn't even write that AW desperately needs a nerf, on the contrary, I wrote that it is not necessary. Although I would like that because from my perspective it would enrich experience, not harm it.

You can move out of fuel weavers range to avoid entrapment. If you're saying that mass healing is only necessary for certain fights than that's more of a reason why Wanda's healing isn't op. Apply that logic to Wanda too.

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

Finally, about breaking the game. Yes, alarming clock breaks the game in numerous ways:

1. You are just walking and straight up 1-shoting small mobs, no need to kite even first of their attacks.

Like Wolfgang?

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

2. Mobs and bosses were designed with melee combat in mind. Celestial champion, Klaus and others whose attacks range is comparable to melee range of players are a proof of it; stunlock changes that were made shortly after Wanda release is attempt of balancing it, insufficient, however. Undertuned tail'o'three cats is also a confirmation of this, otherwise it wouldn't have such low damage and annoying recipe (item needs a buff, btw).

Like using a blowdart? While blowdarts or boomerang are obviously not comparable to the aw in damage or efficiency it proves range is not outside the boundaries of what is considered fair in the game. An everyone can cheese Klaus with a lure plant. Winona catapult on a boat etc etc.

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

3. Resource efficiency of alarming clock outclasses in any circumstances one of the best if not the best weapon in the game. This by itself wouldn't be a problem if it didn't harm Wanda's diversity of playstyle.

Yeah you keep saying diversity like there's a bunch of weapon in the game. If she wasn't using a AW she would only be using a darkswords due to the higher damage It gives and we'd be back to square one.

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

4. Utility of weapon (again, it's not about raw damage, it's combination of it + other properties of weapon) is abysmally larger compared to any other weapon in the game, therefore it breaks balance from my perspective

Not sure how slightly stronger than a darksword is op.

7 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

I hope we could stop to bring more toxicity though. But if you are hostile to me, I would respond in the same manner. Eye for an eye, you know. But speaking about cooperative strategies, "eye for an eye with forgiving" showed better results then "eye for an eye" and especially "never cooparate" when computer simulation was conducted (google about iterated prisoner's dilemma).

Yeah except you're the only one being hostile, just look at everything you wrote about me. You need to tell the difference between me attacking your argument and a personal attack, which you keep doing (personal attacks).

[Echsrick]

13 minutes ago, HellHeater said:

where warbucks

warbucks dit not spawn whit the blunderbus, and every character can make one

[Mike23Ua]

12 minutes ago, HellHeater said:

where warbucks

I’m convinced that Wheeler shot him and took his spot on the character roster (good she’s more cute anyway.)

that or He was going around in the jungles of Hamlet chopping down vines and killing living plants with a Machete so Wormwood climbs up in a Tree and drops one of the Maneating plants he was going around carelessly killing onto his head & well.. no more Warbucks.

Wormwood will Deny that this ever happened if you ask him of course.

*this post is a Joke.. please Mr JoeW do not give me warnings for being Off-Topic only trying to lighten up the mood in here, thnx *

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

this post is a Joke.

so... the previous one wasnt? xD

[Mike23Ua]

5 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

so... the previous one wasnt? xD

 I don’t know.. in her current status- Do you consider Wanda to be a Glass-Canon character?

 

[Cloakingsumo198]

I thought the reason second chance watch was so op was because it broke the skeleton too.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

19 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

 I don’t know.. in her current status- Do you consider Wanda to be a Glass-Canon character?

 

honestly, i wont waste more time arguing with you. Clearly there is no point

21 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

I thought the reason second chance watch was so op was because it broke the skeleton too.

it was "op" because it had cd for self reviving too instead of being wasted like it does now

because clearly people who play wanda needs infinity mediocre revival items

[SonicDen220]

19 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

 I don’t know.. in her current status- Do you consider Wanda to be a Glass-Canon character?

 

Yes. I don't know how she wouldn't be. In the old form she deals more damage and can't afford to take much damage (because 37.5 hp (which is also draining by itself btw) is less than 150, unless I'm somehow wrong on that, does that really not fit the definition of a glass cannon?)

Yeah, it's true, she has range on her weapon to slightly offset that and give her a bit more survivability, but is that really a bad thing? Yeah, night armor is great, but every character gets 95% damage reduction from it, which means any character can take more hits than her. Sure, she doesn't get the -10 sanity/min drain from it, but I believe she still takes the sanity damage when absorbing damage.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

14 minutes ago, SonicDen220 said:

. I don't know how she wouldn't be.

because she can wear LGA without wasting durability, clearly op. For these kind of things you didnt conquer the game you newbie

[SecretPizzaMan]

8 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

because she can wear LGA without wasting durability, clearly op. For these kind of things you didnt conquer the game you newbie

Didn't mike say that they conquered the game without the lga, read up on the mike lore god dammit.

[abrocator]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

They have a valid point about a Glass Canon that isn’t a glass canon.. and do you know WHY these “Pros” are saying just use LGA? Because Klei made it so Wanda can wear them indefinitely without them losing durability specifically just as her because “It’s a Wanda thing..”

Why would she wear them?  She doesn’t have hit points.  Or does it stop her aging?  It wouldn’t be worth it even if that was the case since you are giving up the chest slot.

Is the 2+ sanity per minute with infinite durability the part that is OP?

Quote

And in fact since this thread is asking for Nerfs to Wanda: If her design intention is to be a true “Glass Canon” then LGA’s shouldn’t work on her Period end of Story.., and SCWs should automatically be consumed when she dies, making dying at all as Wanda feel like you’ve truly suffered a great & significant “Risk” Vs the “Reward” of playing at a low health Playstyle.

I don’t get this.  A glass cannon is something/someone that deals a lot of damage but doesn’t have a lot of health.  And that describes her.

But wait, you say… revives and armor.  Well that is besides the point.

Being a glass cannon means that she could easily die.  But dying in itself doesn’t have to have more dire consequences for her compared to the standard character. Why should it?  For some people dying is trivial because they can easily make revive items.  So what?

Dying in Endless doesn’t end the world unless you have managed to set up a death loop at the portal.  So does that mean that Wanda is not a “true glass cannon” in Endless? No.

Likewise for people who delete their worlds on death on principle: still the same glass cannon.

You’re conflating two different things: ease of dying and ease of reviving.

Likewise with armor.  The only justifiable nerf would be to remove her no sanity drain for night armor perk.  A stupid nerf, on the other hand, would be to disallow armor-wearing entirely, similar to your no-revives proposal.

What we mean when we say that Old Wanda is a glass cannon is that it is harder to keep her alive.  We are not also saying that once she dies then all frog rain is let loose and it is sooo hard to revive her… no.  It is just as hard to revive her as it is to revive Willow or whomever.

[DVGMedia]

Personally i feel wanda is a good character and has her traits balanced.
Her increased range with the clock is really what gives her the advantage rather than the damage the clock does.
in most interactions with her fighting you can hit the enemy and stun them for one hit  and maintain that range never putting wanda in danger
compare that to  every character which have to get in range of getting hit by the enemy
the damage is just icing on the cake really

and as for glass cannon? I like to use numbers
Numbers will always be your friend
wanda's old health is 65-79 so about 14 years calculating to 35 hp

log suits protection only give you 2 hits from 75dmg bosses being left at 2 years
and night/ marble gives you 8  to be at 2 years
but you can take another hit and be left at  .5 years giving you did all of that in 20 seconds before you die naturally
but for the rest at old you can do this all in 80 seconds and still be able to heal
based on the armor you use.

of course those numbers are only set if you start at 65 and go to 79 on the age trying to take advantage of the increased shadow damage.

edit
also keep in mind that old wanda is like fighting as wimpy wolf at starving using anything else other than shadow equipment.  with .5 damage multiplier
wanda has the same tank as a 150 hp survivor and suffers more from damage that avoids armor.

Those are all just numbers for the topic that people talk about which is damage and tank

but wanda actually feels like a character There is more to her than just damage.

on some of these reworks there were characters that got the treatment of actually becoming a unique character

while others just got crap
like winona
winona is such a forgetable character  there is no reason to play her for more than what she is needed for.
make catapult make gemerator  and then there is no need for winona.
i mean even just a small change of letting the catapult be personal  like warlys crock pot  would make her much more interesting to play
as the world progresses allow her to man maybe even 2 catapults  using head or body items to make them work and have the catapults not be damageable but she can only have 2 at max.

thats like maxwell minion levels of damage  added to winona but with small aoe and setup. 
 

[Pig Princess]

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Yet you keep continuing the drama? As I said if you have a personal problem with me dm me

You misunderstood me and to correct this I briefly explained what happend from my perspective. I also don't want to look like I ignored your claims, or like I don't have anything to say to defend myself. Anyway, I see you are not willing to stop, so until you do, consider this message my last response to you.

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Yeah you did, you said that perhaps I'm bored of the game because I only play Wanda or something

 

On 1/18/2022 at 7:13 PM, Pig Princess said:

Maybe you should take a break or play other character that isn't overpowered to extent of making game boring

 

On 1/18/2022 at 7:13 PM, Pig Princess said:

Or just in general try another character, even if you disagree that Wanda is overpowered.

Don't. Put. Words. In. My. Mouth.

Or something, @HowlVoid. As you can see, I never said that you are maining Wanda or play only as her. I tried to be generally helpful even though I'm irritated because of your attitude, since if you play a character and game becomes boring, switching character might help regardles of power level, just because different characters provide different experience in vast majority of cases.

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

I never said her healing was limited

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

Less free to use that a pirogie or souls? Oh right because pierogie has a 4 minute cooldown and souls have 3 minute cooldown, right?

 

On 1/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, HowlVoid said:

Reducing Wanda to one ageless watch is going to break her. We're talking about blue mushrooms on a two minute timer for crying out loud. 

So either you definition of "limited" somehow doesn't match common definition/understanding of "limited", or you just contradict yourself.

 

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

I've said and continue to say that Wanda's healing is on par with everyone else's aka infinite.

so are you saying that she has no healing-related downside since her healing is on par? Then what was rant about, about reduction of healing of risk-reward character? About restricting healing for supposed "glass cannon"? If she truly has no problems with healing as you imply, but is supposed to be risky to play and/or glass cannon, we might have a problem here (and cannon part is already there, guess what is missing?).

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Like any healing food?

If glass cannon can brute force a problem, that in itself is a problem. That means it's downside is not working.

Anyway, I didn't mean to insist on nerf of AW even if it was a real possibility, I repeated that so many times at this point.

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Never said you said that her aw was overpowered

 

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

If you're saying that mass healing is only necessary for certain fights than that's more of a reason why Wanda's healing isn't op. Apply that logic to Wanda too.

Why do you bring up OP-ness of ageless watch - in response for me - and advice me to apply this logic - regarding OP-ness of AW - to Wanda, if you are not claiming that I called AW OP? Doesn't this mean you are putting "AW is OP" words in my mouth, whether you say it directly or respond with that in mind? We are very likely to have a contradiction there in your claims if that is so.

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Kiting isn't available to everyone else?

Except Wanda has her own methods in addition to kiting. Sometimes these methods allow to kite otherwise unkitable or very hardly kitible enemy, like Fuelweaver's bone cage attack. Do you think Guille did those fights on the 2nd attempt or something? Do you think everyone else would need the same or lesser amount of attempts? Don't underestimate how hard it is to kite something in certain circumstances and therefore avoid damage.

It would be fair trade if Wanda had to be insanely better at avoiding damage (i.e. Wanda player insanely more skillful) than anyone else and get insanely better reward than anyone else because of that, but alas.

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

it only applies to Wanda, it doesn't touch the Meta for everyone else

Character selection is also a choice player makes, therefore when one character outshines others by so far it is not a healthy thing. You can argue about meaning of "overpowered" therm, but I have a feeling you understood me perfectly fine and chose to ignore it, since otherwise you wouldn't have anything to say. I already responded on your quibbling towards me using "overpowered" therm.

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Like Wolfgang? [about 1-shotting small enemies]

Except Wolfgang has only damage, not range. It is range that allows to walk straight to mob without kiting, furthermore, with a group of small mobs it's range that allows to avoid attacks of remaining creatures much easier, which Wolfgang lacks.

 

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

This is a contradiction to what you just said above.

No, it's not. There are necessary and sufficient conditions. To better understand this imagine one is guessing if object in front of them is cube. Necessary condition would be have 8 peaks, 12 edges and 6 facets, since there is no cube with different amount of peaks, edges and facets, however, it wouldn't be sufficient condition because parallelepiped would also match this criteria. Condition "all angles should be orthogonal" would be also necessary for the same reason, but not sufficient criteria for defining cube, since orthogonal parallelepiped would match this criteria. Condition "all facets should be equal" in addition to all previous conditions would form sufficient criteria since there is no other object matching all of them.

Back to the balance discussion. When I say "Simply being better isn't sufficient condition to be overpowered", I mean that if something is better than other thing it may or may not be overpowered (necessary criteria), however, when I say "when difference is that large, it is" I mean if difference is very big, thing in question can only be overpowered, it cannot be not overpowered, which makes it sufficient criteria: from my perspective there is no state of universe when being abysmally better is not overpowered, which makes it sufficient criteria just like in example with cube.

You may disagree with what I call "overpowered", but there is no logical contradiction in my worlds regarding that.

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Not sure how slightly higher darksword dmg is an abysmally difference.

Remark: damage is around 2x of dark sword, that is not "slightly" better than simple dark sword damage. Remember: attack rate is slightly lower, but base damage, which is 81.6, is multiplied by 1.75x damage modifier Wanda has in old form, which results in 142.8 damage per hit. After taking into consideration attack speed, dps is around 2x of dark sword in old form (in comparison to damage of dark sword in hands of every other character except mighty Wolfgang). If you are talking about young Wanda, then yes, damage is comparable to dark sword. However, I have a question: why does Wanda have refuelable dark sword with extra range while she also sits at 100% hp, has teleports, as well as all other gimmicks? Why does middle-aged Wanda has even more than that while she sits at 75% of hp? Compare this to Maxwell and you may realise what I mean. But even without comparison I don't see any risk, only reward in that character that is supposed to be risk and reward - when it comes to young and middle-aged form, old form is debatable (I think there is still lack of risk and overtuned reward). Why 75% and 100% difference doesn't really matter? Because of number of surprise unarmored hits character can take before death, and highest numbers belong to debth worm (75 hp), shark (90 hp), most bosses in not enraged form (75 hp, 100 for Bearger) and 2 terrorbeaks (100 hp). 150*0.75=112.5 hp, which is greater than all of this.

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

That's not Wanda's fault, the other characters need better utility.

Other characters are mostly fine, difference between them is not that pronounced in comparison to Wanda vs anyone else. In that case it is just less resource intensive to bring Wanda on the level of others, not others to her level. Moreover, you are not the only person who admits game becoming boring and who played Wanda a lot. It may be a coincidence, but it doesn't look that way to me.

Anyway, when tech is already there like with means of teleportation but it has some problems (those problems existed far before Wanda), I wrote that I'm all for brinning others to her level. Alarming clock, however, has it's own problems, and other weapons are balanced well, therefore it's alarming clock that is logical choice for changing.

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

You keep going back and forth on this.

When it comes to keeping to go back and forth it is you, in this post and previous. I had to change order of my quotes of your comment multiple times because your thoughts on particular aspect are all over the place. That means your comment is unstructured, which is exactly "going back and forth", not mine.

 

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

While blowdarts or boomerang are obviously not comparable to the aw in damage or efficiency

I guess you meant "ac", i.e. alarming clock (did you write your comment in a rush?), in which case you said it yourself. Ranged weapons are there, but they are either not effective, or very expensive and impractical to use. To confirm this you can try to remember how much people use boomerangs as damage dealing weapon or blowdarts on bosses and hound waves/clockworks (biggest resource sink), and if someone does, what day count is that (under 100 or over 1000). You can remember tail'o'three cats and slingshot damage, which is low exactly because DST combat limitations, to still encourage to fight melee in vast majority of cases.

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

An everyone can cheese Klaus with a lure plant. Winona catapult on a boat etc etc.

Do you claim that Klei should rebalance things around exploits and bugs? Which can be fixed any moment, by the way? I'm not judging anyone using them, nor I'm pretending they are not there, but it's logical to assume that developers rebalance things according to game experience they intended. They may like unexpected result and keep it, but they may bring game to the state that corresponds with their intention better. And latter happens much, much more frequently, whether someone likes it or not.

Example: in DST one could waterwalk at some point, and can voidwalk even now. Do you claim that it would be perfectly fine if new content required waterwalk and voidwalk as the only mean of experiencing it? Same for duplication bug with chester and seasons changing on reload in DS single-player. I don't think so.

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Yeah you keep saying diversity like there's a bunch of weapon in the game

But there is a bunch of weapon in the game, reasonably balanced, I should say. I enjoy diversity and use different weapons in different situations. Btw, easy dark swords are Wormwood's advantage, but he is not limited to them. I still used morning stars, glass cutters and bat bats (backup weapon for healing) as him, and he offers other interesting choices unlike Wanda. Which is main thing I wish to enjoy playing her - choice and variety.

4 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Yeah except you're the only one being hostile

Do you really think it's not obvious how angry and irritated you are?

Also from previous comment:

 

19 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Saying I don't like to travel via backtrek watch and also saying that it's one of the best utilities in the game are not contradictions.

For me it's contradicting statements because it's strange how "best utility" doesn't translate to "best experience" for you. Then what is best for you and why doesn't it match experience that is "best" for you? Since you didn't define best, I made this logical assumption; otherwise you should be less vague and write "it is biggest time savior" or something else more specific. "Best" has just too vague interpretation, which is why if I use it, I always try to specify.

[Cloakingsumo198]

Spoiler

Watching two of my favorite forumites for different reasons duke it out because of this thread:

 

[Yuuko]

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

and do you know WHY these “Pros” are saying just use LGA? Because Klei made it so Wanda can wear them indefinitely without them losing durability specifically just as her because “It’s a Wanda thing..”

Based on this comment I think you might not have used LGA in DS or DST so let me give you a walk through.
DS - If you wear an LGA it will recover your health over time.  If you die *while wearing* an LGA you will be revived.
DST - If you wear an LGA it will recover your health over time.  If you are a ghost you can haunt an LGA to revive.

In DST Wanda does not drain the durability of an LGA because she has no health to heal with it.  The *only* reason to wear an LGA in DST is to recover health.  That's *all* wearing it does.  You don't need to wear it to revive with it.  In fact if you're wearing it and you die you will still turn into a ghost, and it will drop with the rest of your gear.  If you want to revive with it you simply haunt it as a ghost.

There are a few reasons "the pros" are suggesting to use an LGA, and none of them are that she doesn't reduce its durability while wearing it.

One of the reasons to use an LGA is that you can control where you revive.  If I'm clearing the ruins and die running passed a bishop, if I use my SCW to revive I'm liable to be taken out by that bishop before I have a chance to do anything.  I could drop an LGA on the ground in another area, maybe on top of a glow berry plant for infinite light, and leave a few pieces of gear like a backup lantern and armor, and revive there where I'm safe and can recover my run.

Another reason is the resources needed.  I wouldn't consider either really "expensive," but the LGA is gold, nm fuel, and red gems - all common things you'll have just by playing.  The SCW requires a time piece, living logs, and bone shards.  Things that you won't have as much of early on, and probably want to use for other things.  Living logs especially since they're used for t2 magic, telelocator staff and focus, star caller and deconstruction staves, thulecite clubs and dark swords. (LGA can also be received directly as loot by digging up graves or killing klaus, so you also might just happen to have LGA whether you crafted them or not)

The players who group with me would probably add their reason to use LGA - you don't have to rely on me being around to use SCW on you...  b/c I'm probably off doing something and will tell you I'm on my way to base but lets be real I'm not gonna be there until I'm done clearing this reed trap, knocking down the merm houses near it, probably clearing some bees and spiders, oh yeah and I want to go back to the blue mushtree biome to refill my snack bag, and yeah I know there is a backtrek in my inventory to go to base but then I'll have to walk all this way back and can't you just wait a few minutes?

[hhh2]

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[ArubaroBeefalo]

17 minutes ago, hhh2 said:

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ok