Should wanda be nerfed?

[Starlogy]

I think Wanda is perfect as she is. As many have stated prior to me, she is a very well designed character that rewards skilled play, and to gut any aspect of her would make Wanda worse as a whole. If anything HAD be done to Wanda, I'd say slight number tweaks.

[Cloakingsumo198]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Snip

Just use a beefalo bro.

Spoiler

 

 

[Cheggf]

42 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Just use a beefalo bro.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

A beefalo is how Wendy is getting her damage bonus. Incomparable enormous AOE and about 243 single target dps. Even if we're properly giving the beef a slower attack speed and not animation cancelling it to be even more ridiculous that 243 is still 84% more than a ham bat's 132, 224% more than a spear's 75, and 62% more than a dark sword's 150. All of that for free without needing to make more weapons or fuel an alarm clock or manage your hp at like 15 or anything. And insane AOE which trivializes two of the hardest fights in the game.

Unless Wendy alongside several other characters (basically half the roster) get nerfed I see no reason to nerf Wanda.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

21 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

A beefalo is how Wendy is getting her damage bonus. Incomparable enormous AOE and about 243 single target dps. Even if we're properly giving the beef a slower attack speed and not animation cancelling it to be even more ridiculous that 243 is still 84% more than a ham bat's 132, 224% more than a spear's 75, and 62% more than a dark sword's 150. All of that for free without needing to make more weapons or fuel an alarm clock or manage your hp at like 15 or anything. And insane AOE which trivializes two of the hardest fights in the game.

Unless Wendy alongside several other characters (basically half the roster) get nerfed I see no reason to nerf Wanda.

literally wendy, wolfgang, wigrid or woodie are way stronger than wanda if we compare positive and negative aspects. There arent a balance between effort-reward with these characters (well, you have to be carefully with woodie forms) and you experience the benefits since the firsts days. Characters like wendy or wigfrid even teach bad habits but you will only see wanda op threads (and just because wolf got nerfed for some reason) which is what triggers me, the hipocrisy

[Dextops]

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

woodie

woodies forms are just wilson but worse in just about every way

 

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

wigrid

shes really restricted in her perks and is very eh in a lot of aspects

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Dextops said:

woodies forms are just wilson but worse in just about every way

sure bro. Maybe in your experience it works like wilson not in mine

 

2 minutes ago, Dextops said:

shes really restricted in her perks and is very eh in a lot of aspects

like wanda

[Dextops]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

like wanda

no wanda has perks outside of combat and is still good at combat

 

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

sure bro. Maybe in your experience it works like wilson not in mine

moose is very slow and its dps is also slow. goose is fast but you can't pick up anything while in that form so its pretty useless in early game exploration and later on beefalo take its place. beaver is pretty useless since pigs exist and so does bearger later on

[Cloakingsumo198]

9 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Snip

I didn't realize it was hard to get to archives or to make a shadow manipulator. 

Wendy and wigfrid literally get thrown into every single conversation, lol they don't even need their own threads.

[Cheggf]

2 minutes ago, Dextops said:

no wanda has perks outside of combat and is still good at combat

 

moose is very slow and its dps is also slow. goose is fast but you can't pick up anything while in that form so its pretty useless in early game exploration and later on beefalo take its place. beaver is pretty useless since pigs exist and so does bearger later on

Gunpowder and the flingomatic exists so the alarming clock is worthless. Wormholes and telelocators exist so the rift watch is worthless.

Or maybe just because a character's way of doing something isn't the only way to do it doesn't mean that the character is useless.

[Dextops]

Just now, Cheggf said:

Gunpowder and the flingomatic exists so the alarming clock is worthless. Wormholes and telelocators exist so the rift watch is worthless.

Or maybe just because a character's way of doing something isn't the only way to do it doesn't mean that the character is useless.

all of the things you've mentioned are very outclassed those aren't very good examples so idk what your point is

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Dextops said:

no wanda has perks outside of combat and is still good at combat

reviving noobs and late game teleportation (not everyone reveals the map or use mods to have 4 mctusk camps). No gathering perks like wigfrid so both are very meh outside of combat but wigfrid has free stats without being in danger so the balance between "effort-reward" (my point) is better in wigfrid

 

4 minutes ago, Dextops said:

moose is very slow and its dps is also slow

moose has aoe damage which makes him able to kill a potential infinity ammount of enemies (not a theorical thing but something i experienced)

5 minutes ago, Dextops said:

goose is fast but you can't pick up anything while in that form so its pretty useless in early game

idk that you pick stuff non stop in early game. Sure night vision, speed and ability to walk over the water is very useless

 

6 minutes ago, Dextops said:

beaver is pretty useless since pigs exist and so does bearger later on

pigs are **** and treeguards stop them, bearger isnt avaraible on demand

 

you always find the way to omit oe exagerate things to look right, always. Very annoying

[Cheggf]

2 minutes ago, Dextops said:

all of the things you've mentioned are very outclassed those aren't very good examples so idk what your point is

What is flingo freezing bosses outclassed by? You aren't even describing what Woodie's forms do, you're saying moose is single target damage when it's for ruins rushing and cosplaying as Wendy. Plus with animation cancelling the damage isn't even too bad.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

I didn't realize it was hard to get to archives or to make a shadow manipulator. 

Wendy and wigfrid literally get thrown into every single conversation, lol they don't even need their own threads.

going to the archives=! free

you should pay attention because later you accuse of things you do

 

 

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

reviving noobs and late game teleportation (not everyone reveals the map or use mods to have 4 mctusk camps). No gathering perks like wigfrid so both are very meh outside of combat but wigfrid has free stats without being in danger so the balance between "effort-reward" (my point) is better in wigfrid

teleportation is amazing especially when its points you can set and wigfrid has nothing outside of combat while wanda does you are just exaggerating stuff while claiming i am doing the same 

 

2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

moose has aoe damage which makes him able to kill a potential infinity ammount of enemies (not a theorical thing but something i experienced)

so do other characters and the time saved during so is pretty minimal as woodie

 

3 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

idk that you pick stuff non stop in early game. Sure night vision, speed and ability to walk over the water is very useless

picking resources is the early game. night vision? have you heard of a torch? speed? have you heard of a beefalo? walking on water? ill give you that its one of the only things woodie has

 

4 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

pigs are **** and treeguards stop them, bearger isnt avaraible on demand

 

you always find the way to omit oe exagerate things to look right, always. Very annoying

beaver is also pretty meh since you can't pick up the wood while chopping and pigs can take care of treeguards if you are helping them. I am exaggerating nothing its you who is undervaluing characters or overblowing them

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

What is flingo freezing bosses outclassed by? You aren't even describing what Woodie's forms do, you're saying moose is single target damage when it's for ruins rushing and cosplaying as Wendy. Plus with animation cancelling the damage isn't even too bad.

meant gun powder and idk when freezing bosses would come to help a lot with the extra set up when you can just fight them normally maybe if ovens still existed you'd be right but they were killed

[Cloakingsumo198]

4 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Snip

You either gotta be trolling or desperate to start calling moose form op in order to defend Wanda lmao.

13 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Gunpowder and the flingomatic exists so the alarming clock is worthless. Wormholes and telelocators exist so the rift watch is worthless.

Spoiler

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

9 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

You either gotta be trolling or desperate to start calling moose form op in order to defend Wanda lmao.

op? where i said op?

i got tired honestly

[Cloakingsumo198]

4 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i got tired honestly

Just let it end man. You did your part already lol..... let it all go. Every point has pretty much already been made.

Spoiler

 

[Mike23Ua]

Actually this threads not about Wendy/Wolfgang/Woodie/Wurt/Willow or Whoever else you want to name drop into the conversation: it’s about Wanda and rather or not she should have nerfs.

And my opinion on that is if she’s supposed to be a High Risk = High Reward character then she shouldn’t also have literally “Free” Watches each time she dies.

I understand that WITHOUT this watch she will Die, But.. What if her First Ageless watch was “Bound” to her?? As in If you happen to DIE.. instead of being dropped on the ground or left in your probably easily recoverable Backpack: That exact watch should Transcend death WITH You through the fabrics of Space and TIME so it Never leaves her inventory anyway… but the way Klei CURRENTLY has it set up is you can get Free Watches just from playing Poorly..

No need to actually go to the ruins, or archives, or decide what watches to build with your clock parts, you can literally just use the Clock Kits to Deconstruct your Extra Ageless Watches (or Keep Them for more Healing)

And you call this a Risk Vs Reward Character?

Im a WENDY MAIN and if I happen to be careless enough to get Abigail Killed her 600 hp drops to 150 and any Ectoherbology potions I once had applied to her are no longer in Effect.

So Yes Wanda Mains… You DO Need a Nerf, can we all just Agree to that?

Thank You <3

[HowlVoid]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yes Wanda Mains… You DO Need a Nerf, can we all just Agree to that?

Thank You <3

I'm a Wormwood main but my answer is:

No <3 

Wanda is perfect.

[Lil K]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Actually this threads not about Wendy/Wolfgang/Woodie/Wurt/Willow or Whoever else you want to name drop into the conversation: it’s about Wanda and rather or not she should have nerfs.

And my opinion on that is if she’s supposed to be a High Risk = High Reward character then she shouldn’t also have literally “Free” Watches each time she dies.

I understand that WITHOUT this watch she will Die, But.. What if her First Ageless watch was “Bound” to her?? As in If you happen to DIE.. instead of being dropped on the ground or left in your probably easily recoverable Backpack: That exact watch should Transcend death WITH You through the fabrics of Space and TIME so it Never leaves her inventory anyway… but the way Klei CURRENTLY has it set up is you can get Free Watches just from playing Poorly..

No need to actually go to the ruins, or archives, or decide what watches to build with your clock parts, you can literally just use the Clock Kits to Deconstruct your Extra Ageless Watches (or Keep Them for more Healing)

And you call this a Risk Vs Reward Character?

Im a WENDY MAIN and if I happen to be careless enough to get Abigail Killed her 600 hp drops to 150 and any Ectoherbology potions I once had applied to her are no longer in Effect.

So Yes Wanda Mains… You DO Need a Nerf, can we all just Agree to that?

Thank You <3

I'm pretty sure 160 people DO NOT agree with you.

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, Lil K said:

I'm pretty sure 160 people DO NOT agree with you.

Yeah well remember when Klei actually did nerf her Second Chance Clock so it breaks when used?? If balance is needed they will do it- and Wanda being labeled as a Risk Vs Reward character with Free Watches when she dies… isn’t Risk Vs Reward.

[Maxposting]

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

And my opinion on that is if she’s supposed to be a High Risk = High Reward character then she shouldn’t also have literally “Free” Watches each time she dies.

It's kinda a waste of reviving items while you can literally get enough time pieces for years by clearing the ruins.

Also Wanda's "free revival" requires a static living log and a bone shard farn in order for it to be able to produce enough materials for this weak method to work.

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

And you call this a Risk Vs Reward Character?

Im a WENDY MAIN and if I happen to be careless enough to get Abigail Killed her 600 hp drops to 150 and any Ectoherbology potions I once had applied to her are no longer in Effect.

And YOU call this a risk and reward* character?

Noone ever agreed that Wendy is a risky character (after the tuning change), the worst thing that happens with dying Abigail is losing potions, and even then you have Wendy herself. This sounds like you depend on abigail too much.

[Mike23Ua]

20 minutes ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

It's kinda a waste of reviving items while you can literally get enough time pieces for years by clearing the ruins.

Also Wanda's "free revival" requires a static living log and a bone shard farn in order for it to be able to produce enough materials for this weak method to work.

And YOU call this a risk and reward* character?

Noone ever agreed that Wendy is a risky character (after the tuning change), the worst thing that happens with dying Abigail is losing potions, and even then you have Wendy herself. This sounds like you depend on abigail too much.

1- I never claimed Wendy was a Risk Vs Reward Character, and 2- You don’t need to use Second Chance Clocks or LGA on Wanda: 

Touchstones/Celestial Portal/Other Players Reviving Her with Taletell Hearts = Free Ageless Watches..

She gets this watch because WITHOUT IT She Will DIE.. but she can also “Exploit” this by mass Dying and then simply keeping or deconstructing all the free watches she respawns with.

If the watch was Bound to Her Instead, and never left her inventory you couldn’t exploit this Method I mean…

Surely you can agree that Klei made these watches intentionally hard to craft by needing Thelucite in their crafting, but completely overlooked that she got completely free watches every time she dies.

P.S. OP- If your going to make a thread asking if a character should be Nerfed.. then expect valid reasons WHY people feel they should be Nerfed to be brought up.

 

[Bugsworth]

how is wanda overpowered 

[Yuuko]

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picking resources is the early game. night vision? have you heard of a torch? speed? have you heard of a beefalo? walking on water? ill give you that its one of the only things woodie has

idk I think night vision is far superior to a torch because you can see the entire screen.  This is a pretty good boon for all were forms so you can be as aware of your surroundings as possible while your gear and function are restricted.

Goose form is used for 1 thing - crossing water.  Whether its going to lunar island, exploring for salt / tall trees, or bridging a water gap between two biomes so you can just get where you're going quicker.  I wouldn't ever go to goose form just to run faster, and during these times where I would use it I never need to pick things up because its all exploration or travel related, there is no reason to goose form for gathering.

 

Quote

beaver is also pretty meh since you can't pick up the wood while chopping and pigs can take care of treeguards if you are helping them. I am exaggerating nothing its you who is undervaluing characters or overblowing them

idk you can't pick up the wood but you can chop through the night with night vision, chop very fast, and just come through and pick it all up when you're done.  One of the best things about Woodie is that beaver form doesn't spawn tree guards so if you want a lot of wood you can get it without distractions getting in the way - similarly when you *want* tree guards you can bust out Lucy and get them too.

Woodie's chopping related perks aren't super OP, but imo they are useful and I wouldn't discount him as a strong starting character for these reasons.

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idk Wanda is a high power character, and is supposed to be.  It is done through a risk reward style where you need to be low health to get maximum value.  She can use night armor and dark sword with out sanity penalty, ice / fire staff with reduced penalty, AC which has both max damage and a range advantage, can craft any number of AW, which can mitigate any casual damage.

You could play her as a young Wanda if you want, but you wouldn't be getting her top end potential.  Is that important?

Alarming Clock:  Young Wanda using the clock gets 81.6 damage per hit, which comes to 1958.4 damage per nm fuel.  This is pretty low compared to her Elder form using the clock which nets 142.8 per hit (3427.2 / fuel), but its still high compared to a dark sword at 68 damage per hit and only 1360 / fuel...  I can see this being too much for young Wanda.

Ageless Watch:  With a single ageless watch the numbers look pretty good for a challenge character.  You naturally lose 12 years per day, and if you use AW on cd every time you heal 32 per day.  This gives you about 50 health per day to play with which can get tricky.  Each additional AW gives you 80 health per day to play with.  I can see how stacking these can get out of hand.

Without touching Elder Wanda potential - I could say reduce AC fueled damage to <50 per hit at young age, and maybe 60 middle age, giving Elder the big damage spike.  Give her a general purpose damage penalty for non-shadow weapons at all ages, so until she gets ds or ac she is less combat viable than Wilson.  Basically make DS the go to damage dealer for young / middle Wanda, but flipping this in Elder where the AC picks up.  The efficiency of the weapon could take a hit getting only 12% per nm fuel, halving the cost / efficiency.

Then health - what probably needs to happen is a bit of a retune.  Currently each year is worth 2.5 health which is effectively 150 health, and she loses 30 health per day.  Elder form exists below 37.5 health.  Because you heal 20 health on an AW use you must drop to 17 health before activating the watch to maintain your form.  If each year were only worth 1.25 health you would lose 15 per day, Elder would exist below 18.75 health, and you'd need to drop to 8 health before you use your watch to maintain form.  You would have an effective health of 75, matching Maxwell but being encouraged to play on the lowest edge of that.  (I would suggest with this she gets 1/2 reduced damage from any dot effects, hot / cold / starving b/c these really take a toll on her in current form, cutting her effective health in half makes these almost instant killers for elder wanda.)

What we could probably do as well is remove AW as a craftable item.  You start with 1, you only ever get 1.  You can move it around in your inventory but you can never drop it, and it stays with you when you die.  Cut the cd in half, leave the effect the same.  If you fail a use now you have to wait out the cd before you can try again rather than just using the next watch in line.

With these changes would you think she is 1) still playable, and 2) appropriately challenging to warrant the AC with its current numbers / range?