Wolfgang's Character Refresh is Coming Next Week!

[Cassielu]

Why would anyone suggest that Klei take a page from the worst character rework ever?

[RatherAzure]

The rework is fine. Wolfgang's core gameplay was single-player oriented in a multi-player game and his current design reflects that. Though, Wolfgang players seem to value quick, fast action, (i.e. eating two meaty stews in 1 second and then going on a rampage) and this rework slowed that down massively. Don't Starve and Don't Starve Together are two different games now and have been for a while. Here are a few of my thoughts.

• A method of instantly entering mighty form (with a downside?). Old Wolfgang should have no problem getting jumped by a random pack of hounds (from a disconnected player) but this not-mighty Wolfgang would.
  • I don't know what it would be that makes sense lore-wise or it implies doping or something.
• Allow the potato sack be craftable and be a portable chest. I dunno, it was implied that it would be like this from the preview a few updates ago and I'm a tiny bit disappointed it wasn't. Perhaps allow Wolfgang to store massive quantities of a singular item?
  • We did get the piggyback thing so that is pretty cool.
• Allow Wolfgang to chop/mine/ faster when mighty. That used to be the joke even with old Wolfgang.
  • Alternatively, his 10% speed boost while either mighty or wimpy (choose one).

Okay and this last one is just funny to me.

• Let Wolfgang bring statues into combat. He swings the statues.
  • Wolfgang bears resemblance to Braum, Heart of the Frejlord and the man runs into fights with a door.

[Cassielu]

10 minutes ago, RatherAzure said:

Wolfgang's core gameplay was single-player oriented in a multi-player game and his current design reflects that.

Even if it was, it's never a good idea to keep something this important confined to just one character. And Wolfgang himself is not a popular character as far as I know, he is not quite qualified for the position. (Character personalities, backstory, etc. not his special abilities in the game)

[terrestrian]

I quickly tested Wolfgang rework and I couldn't like his mightiness meter and training equipment. I felt like they are an unnecessary steps in his way. Instead of mightiness meter and training stuff, I wish Wolfgang's mightiness had related with potatoes somehow. It would be nice if Wolfgang had a exclusive compartment in his belly that he can only fill with potatoes or potato specific recipes in order to be mighty mighty. Other than that, I miss speed boost but he can use marble suit and piggy back without any penalty so I feel like that is acceptable. Also, since he is afraid of darkness and monsters, maybe he could deal less damage during nights or when he was alone meanwhile dealing more damage apart from his mightiness while his friends are nearby. That way, it would encourage more team play and his rework would be more compelling and fun to play.

[JustExo]

I’ve compiled a few problems as well as potential solutions to what I’ve seen people complain about in things like the Don’t Starve Together discord, and a brief scroll through the forums, and started thinking about potential solutions, albeit pretty surface level ideas that would need to be flushed out a bit more.

Problem:
-Barrier to might entry for people who enjoy a rushing playstyle

Solution:

-Give wolfgang some sort of alternative to becoming mighty. 

Proposed potential solutions:

-When wolfgang is at, or above 75% hunger, he passively gains might points. The rate at which he gains might would have to be discussed more in depth to find out what is optimal.

-Hunger points that go above wolfgang’s hunger cap (Wolfgang’s at 90% and he gets 20% worth of hunger points) the remaining points go into his might in a reduced conversion rate

-Wolfgang can access a “soft” mighty form when certain conditions regarding his hunger are met, where he gains some benefits to mighty but not others

-This can support the gym as an incentive by locking increase in stats behind them to still provide both provide the rushing playstyle viability, and incentivizes people to still use the gym structures/items for that extra boost. 
 

Problem:

-Lack of team play

Solution:

-Give wolfgang something that other characters can make use of
Proposed potential solutions:

-Other characters can use his gym (the most popular of the options)

Side note: I think it would be interesting if certain characters got different benefits from working out. Ex: Wigfrid, Winona, Woodie, etc. get strength upgrades where their damage is temporarily increased, while others like Wickerbottom, Wanda, WX etc get speed upgrades. 

 

Problem: 

-managing the might meter is seen as an inconvenience
Solution:

-See “barrier to might entry” 

Side note: What people seem to have a big problem with is not allowing Wolfgang to become mighty with any other means than to set up these items/structures, which is also seen as an inconvenient time loss for the people who want to get things done asap, the obvious solution to me seems to be to add an alternative way to gain might that isn’t done by going very out of your way to do. 

 

Problem:

-People think Wolfgang is boring to play

Solution:

- That’s the point of the rework

Proposed solution: While fun is subjective, I think the enjoyment that people do derive from Wolfgang is through the rushing things playstyle, and from feeling as powerful as Wolfgang is. Another contributing factor could be how independent he is as a character, where there isn’t a real reason Wolfgang would have to work with other people as he can very easily be seen as a one-man-band. Providing more team play could remedy this a bit. 

 

Problem:

-Working out is “lame”

Solution

-make working out more interesting

Proposed solution: 

-Provide some sort of variation to Wolfgang working out. Repetition to the extent that working out minigames are can be rather annoying given how often you are incentivized to do it.

Side note: I’m just gonna say it, Wolfgang’s form is atrocious. I don’t even know what he’s working out. With that in mind, if there were structures that could provide different buffs by working out different parts of the body (hack squat machine for legs and a potential speedboost, bench for bench press to work with upper body strength, etc.)

 

Problem:

- lack of use for wimpy form

Solution:

- Provide a use for wimpy form

Proposed solution:

-I’ve seen speed boost being proposed which I don’t think is where that should go, I am of the opinion that mighty Wolfgang with a speed boost is what adds to the enjoyment of playing Wolfgang and should be put in his mighty form

-What people seem to enjoy was using wimpy form to increase things like his healing, which the answer could just be to make healing a bit more effective for wimpy wolfgang

 

Problem:

-Wolfgang is too overpowered

Solution:

-Balance him

Proposed solution:

-I am not the person to ask about how to balance Wolfgang

-Side note: but as a fighting game player, I can tell you that: to offset 1 nerf, people would typically need 3 meaningful buffs to make up for that. 

- Wolfgang is not OP. narrowing the view of how good a character is in regards to nothing but their combat capabilities is ignoring the utility of characters like Wickerbottom, Warly, Woodie, Maxwell, Wurt. Characters whose primary focus is on gathering required materials still have utility and are better than Wolfgang in their respective fields, and there is nothing wrong with that. 

 

Problem: (this one is just my complaint)

-The gym serves no utility to any character other than the one who put it down, and only if its in the immediate vicinity.

Solution: 

-See lack of team play

Side note: Go back and tweak other character-specific structures where they are either: useable by everyone with no detriment to their function by adding an interaction specific to their character. On the flipside, characters who get no mileage out of their structures without being there can have others use their items/structures, but to a degree that isn’t as effective, or altered in some way. 

 

I like the concepts around what you’re doing for the Wolfgang rework. The idea of tying might into a meter is a cool one, I think dumbbells as an aoe projectile weapon is a really cool feature (I really appreciate how the gem dumbbell looks btw) but I think a lot of this can be tweaked in order to satisfy a solid chunk of the player base. As it currently stands, what a lot of the detractors seem to be saying, aside from complaining about nerfs is; it’s done little to nothing to benefit the character, the people that play the character, or the people who team up with that character. I think providing a character with a reason to be played, and continue being played should be the primary focus above everything else. Balance in a cooperative game is secondary to how much fun I can have playing the character, and how much fun other people have enjoyed what my character of choice can provide.

[6AKU66]

5 minutes ago, Exodichu said:

I’ve compiled a few problems as well as potential solutions to what I’ve seen people complain about in things like the Don’t Starve Together discord

Bold text hard to read.

[StarlitTundra]

geez this thread is all over the place. i think from what ive seen this rework could work with a few tweaks (i cant play the beta branch since im a console player) and a few adjustments to the new mechanics (make the dumbbells durability better, make them give more mightness because i dont think anyone plays DST for a gym simulator lol)

that being said though i think the one thing that made wolfgang unique was how simple his mechanics were. eat food, get mighty, run around and fight things. i guess this could be said for a lot of characters but for wolfgang specially. i dont think hes the most unbalanced character in the game and i dont particularly care about the loss of the speed boost (although i can see why some people are upset about this). if the crafting tab is to be added, i think there should be a bit more payoff for the people sitting there playing gym.

doesnt really need to be something big either, maybe make the mightness loss slow down by fighting things or by keeping his stomach full? maybe exclusive crockpot foods or items that could make the mightness meter halt or increase for a few minutes? i think there are many possibilities to be explored and to fix this, but i think klei might be trying to stick to the characters lore and what "makes sense" for him.

for the things that i actually like, the piggyback and marble suit not affecting wolfgangs speed is really good, and decreasing the sanity loss by being around players while its dark might encourage wolfgang players to be more of a team player than just running around and rushing bosses with no help from other players.

this is probably the most controversial rework thus far and idk if anything i just wrote makes sense to anybody (like i said, i cant really play the beta branch i can only form my opinion over what people are saying about it and im a bit tired rn) but ive honestly been scratching my head a bit over this update too. however, i do think people are jumping the gun a bit by saying "wolfgang is ruined now" when the actual update hasnt even come out yet and all of the stuff in the beta branch might not even make the final cut lol

[Rhovious Aran]

So I tried Wolfgang and want to offer some feedback. Please take everything I say with a grain of salt, because I am not a game developer and might have very specific ideas or wishes about this game. I am just someone who adores this game and played it for thousands of hours. 

I would really love to get a glimpse into the way you create characters or how you start about making updates. I feel like with this particular patch at least you maybe omitted to ask yourself one question: Is this going to be fun though? Are the changes to Wolfgang going to make him more fun to play. 

I cannot state enough how important this question is in video games in my opinion and how often I feel it's unfortunately not in the center of the design process. 

Let me preface by saying, I used to play Wolfgang almost exclusively in my megabase worlds because not having his extra damage felt just too tedious to play. Since Wanda was introduced I have not gone back I did not plan to go back and the update made me even less inclined to play him. 
Wanda in my opinion is the most FUN update you have ever done in all those years that I have been playing DST. Initially I thought or maybe (hoped) that she dawned a new era of character updates, where you take it to the next level. But now I think her being so much fun was just an accident. Let me tell you what I think is so particularly fun about Wanda. 

Her character specific items, aka the watches don't have durability but a cooldown. I hate when things are not sustainable, I hate using things that I deem very precious because of how difficult they are to craft and how precious the materials are. I often find myself not using those items even though I have them in abundance because there is just something wrong in my brain telling me to only use valuable items when it's absolutely necessary. Like: all the amulets and staves from the ruins, thulecite gear, weather pains. 

Defeating the Deerclops in Terraria and obtaining the weatherpain there, I had an absolute blast with this weapon in Terraria and then it made me think "oh... weatherpains are actually great in DST too, what a cool effect to have this little tornado spell, but oh well, you can only use them a couple times before they break" and I felt sad. 

I am not saying every item should have no durability, because that would break the game. But the dumbells in particular felt like they lose durability way too fast. I also don't see myself using any but the first dumbell because that one only requires only two materials to craft. I find it just so annyoing to craft cut stone and pick up a total of 3 different resources every time I want to make the golden dumbell for example. 

It's just so Wandarful when you don't have to worry about your watches constantly breaking and can just use them whenever you see fit. They become a real extension to the character. Wanda to me doesn't just feel like another survivor, she plays more like a hero in a Moba like Dota 2 or League of Legends AND I LOVE THAT. She feels like she has abilities of a superhero, and it's just one thing: SO MUCH FUN. 

I really was hoping you would take Wolfgangs rework down a similar route and maybe give him either a leap attack or a whirlwind, something similar to what we had seen in the Forge. Because that would have been FUN. 

I don't mean to be dismissive at all of your work, I hope you know that. Sometimes I just struggle to make my thoughst come out clearly so I just say what I think. But I love and appreciate everything you have done for this game over the years and I am very grateful for it. 

The most fun I had trying out the new Wolfgang (or basically the only thing I found fun about his rework) was throwing his dumbells around to kill birds. Because that felt the closest to what a new ability is like. You know the survivors are humans (mostly) or humanoids. And well, humanoids can throw things. It's nice that Wolfgang can throw things now. It makes the world more believable and it's fun when your character can do more than "autoattack" I really would love to see more active abilities for our characters in the future, because they are so much fun and playing Wanda made me realise that. Her Backstep Watch feels like a blink and is very rewarding. The Backtrek Watches take out a massive tedium of the game, long walking distances, travel time. 

Now let me get to the gym station. I get it. Wolfgang used to work in a circus enviroment. "It makes sense" to bring a little bit of that into the game. But again.. is it fun? Hmm yes maybe in a circus enviroment. To me the Gym Station would fit in much better into the Midsummer Cawnival for all survivors to occasionally when they are in the mood to play a minigame. But that for me is different content. I don't want to play a minigame when I am about to defeat a boss. It's the wrong place. It's very cute the animations and assets are beautifully done. And I think it's a minigame that is on paar with the other Cawnival Minigames, but having to do this every time you want to defeat a boss is just tedious and weird. Pumping your Mighty Meter up with dumbells also just feels too slow and tedious, because you can't do anything while it's happening.

I don't think character specific meters add any real fun to the game. (Wanda's age yet again stands out as an exception to me, because it replaces her health and is a very interesting succesful mechanic. Wolfgangs Might meter is just a bar to top up. (another one for him to top up now, besides the hunger bar). It's just weird to me to have 2 bars to keep up now that basically serve the same function. Is it more in line with his character lore? yes. He is meant to be strongman and not a glutton after all. But is it more fun? No. Even less so for me unfortunately. 

I feel like sometimes I would love if you made decisions less in favour of realisim and believability and more in line with what's fun. 

Are the DST waffle boats more believable and realistic than the DST boats? Yes absolutely, and I commend you for the creativity. But are they more fun to sail around in with? No... no they are not, the Shipwrecked boats are more fun.

I hope my feedback was any useful to you. And to summ things up. I would like to encourage Klei more to ask themselves the following question more in the future when you design Character Reworks or content in general: "Is it fun though?"

Thank you <3 I love you

[Mike23Ua]

I can’t play in the Beta: But a couple things I would like to express based on what I’ve seen/heard.

Wolfgangs biggest problem (having nothing that benefits anyone but himself) seems to not have even been addressed, yes the Extra Sanity lost & weaker damage fighting shadows when alone is a nice touch.. but that only yet again benefits Wolfgang- No one Else.

What I would’ve liked was for him to be able to do TEAM Based stuff: As in maybe he could give everyone Protein Energy Bars to temporarily boost their movement speed like SW Coffee a Wolfgang Exclusive craftable that Only he can create, but anyone can use (except Wolfgang because he would just hog them all to himself if they worked for him)

Also if Other characters could use the Dumbells as a MELEE Weapon with decent damage & Durability his Mightiness could temporarily be given to non-Wolfgang characters to make it a team based perk and not a Pick & Swap item: An Active Wolfgang would need to be around the other players “now lift those weights & 1,2,3..” Similar to how BERNIE only Enlarges when a Willow is in the server.

I just took Wolfgangs Speed & Might & distributed it out to everyone (though Wolfgang would have more because it’s his “thing”)

Now if Protein bars boost everyone’s movement speed but NOT Wolfgangs how is that fair? EASY! Wolfgang would run faster when in Wimpy form (fight or flight type combat) so you can be puny and weak.. or Slower but Mighty.

Next: For gods sake Klei… I wanted you to make being Mighty do more then just make him hit harder…

You let me throw a Dumbell at birds, that’s great but.. it also costs Dumbell durability (I understand why… but-) if I can throw Dumbells I should be able to throw other things: Such as Other players across small gaps of water/caves.. or Better yet- The BOULDERS Antlion attempts to drop on your face if your down in a cave during Summer.

Mightiness should also drain slower if Wolfgang is performing Mighty actions (not just in the Gym.. but Using a Piggyback, Marble Armor Etc.. anything heavy..)

I love what I’ve seen so far: but I strongly feel there’s room for improvements before the rework is finalized.

[Szczuku]

Dumbells as a weapon are useless.

And as a way to gain mightiness they seem kinda doo-doo (which is by design, the gym exists for going from wimpy to mighty). But idk about the way they keep you mighty. You can only use them while standing still so I think solo players, with no friends to distract the boss, will suffer from that.

Looking at the 'arguments' of people criticizing that decision I can tell that Klei did the right thing to remove mighty speed boost, as well as mightiness from hunger.

Do not give in Klei. Keep it that way.

However do give wimpy Wolfgang the speed boost. Afterall Wolfgang is the walking definition of 'flight or fight'. He's wimpy, he cannot fight and so he runs away.

Also the sack of potatoes appearing from thin air upon creating the gym is dumb.

[Frosty_Mentos]

PETITION FOR FERMENTED POTATO JUICE TO BE INTRODUCED TO THE GAME

I kinda wanna see Wolfgang to have AOE slam attacks or something. Have his dumbbells to stun an enemy for a moment after being thrown at or something combat related.
I do wish his whimpy form would have movement speed compared to heavylifter mode that he has, he doesn't feel quite the same as he used to but he gained a direct nerf to one of his stats which will really bring an uprising to some players.

While some people are being overly dramatic about Wolfgang being unplayable anymore cuz of the change I feel that there's some changes still needed to make people a bit more satisfied.

[Arti_Was_Taken]

I played the beta and I really enjoy this rework, but I think there are a couple of things that could be changed:

• If Wolfgang is in his wimpy form he takes 20% more damage, then i think Wolfgang in mighty form should take 20% less damage.

 • Wimpy Wolfgang should run 20% faster in return for 20% more damage received, it makes a lot of sense because someone smaller may be more agile, which would make his wimpy form also be used  for exploration or better kitting.

 

[reallychina]

I clocked around 1500 hours as Wolfgang, it used to be my main until Wanda showed up. Since Wanda is such an amazing and fun character to play i've given up on Wolfgang, i am not as invested in what happens to him to begin with so i consider i can be more objective than current Wolfgang mains.

The speed nerf is massive and bad, people saying otherwise simply do not understand wolfgang meta. Despite being known for his might and double damage, manipulating speed was almost half of his perk. You could go slightly faster or I AM SPEED fast depending on needs, on food available and on how much you wanted to invest in food. There was a very thin line you'd have to cruise between eating for speed and still having food for max mighty on fights and that dynamic was great. That speed combined with other speed boosts and speed manipulation made wolfgang feel like wolfgang, Wolfgang was so good because you could also be fast and get a lot of stuff done, aside from fights feeling different. You could feel and use his power to the max because he had speed. But i can not stress enough that Wolfgang's speed usage was only partly related to actual fighting.

 

Or maybe tie his speed to his health to incentivize good playstyle? idk. But no speed on Wolfgang is just sad to watch and is a big mistake.

 

I understand why you went the weights way and i do believe it is an elegant solution that was meant to cap his power early game. This was necessary. This is in line with other characters and with general character development, it was absurd that Wolfgang could reach endgame power as soon as first minute day one and he would be no different in day 100 or 1000.

 

The weight station is great, the use of various statues for lifting is great. I don't know yet if a deerclops statue nets the same gain as an ancient fuelweaver one, i would expect endgame bosses to be better.  

 

The dumbbells are clunky and too slow, the first one being the worst offender. They also have too few uses. I was also disappointed there was no ruins dumbbell, you missed the chance to use yellow gems that tend to get hoarded anyway because of their limited use. 

Overall the dumbells break the flow. This would not necessarily be a problem if the mighty gain was significantly faster and they'd have more uses (even if they were to cost more resources). They have a similar function to Wanda's ageless watches, but those are instant. So it's not the dumbbells per se that are the issue but how long they take to get mightiness up and maintained. Wanda's watches have no durability but dumbbells break faster than sticks. Double or triple their cost if you will as long as they are more durable and increase mightiness faster.

You could make mightiness build faster if he's at over 90% or full health, incentivizing better playstyle instead of facetanking, like you did with Wanda.

His mightiness also degenerates too fast. He should also gain mightiness when mining, chopping, rowing as those are physical activities. Or at the very least freeze the meter.    On second thought it's fine

And lose mighty when hit (i think this is the best option imo because it also allows negative mighty control), as long as  generation is faster.

The other things you did like the piggyback, marblesuit, statue moving etc are very cool. 

There are also no additions for him being a team player, maybe just for moving statues but thats a one time thing.

I did insist on the negatives cause this is a feedback thread but i want to reiterate that overall the rework is great and i congratulate you for it, it just needs some tweaks,

[BeeClops]

Tested a bit, it's as bad as I expected, the post right above me by @reallychina sums up my experience too.

I am really curious tho, who was this rework aimed at? It was clearly not meant for veteran Wolfgang players, nor does it benefit more than before to have a Wolfgang on your team. They made him a little more beginner friendly maybe, losing less hunger, but also gave him disadvantages in wimpy form which only affect beginners anyway. I guess it was aimed towards Wigfrid mains? 

Like most who enjoyed his playstyle pre-rework, it's a natural switch to Wanda, probably until the people who don't play Wanda insist for her to be nerfed enough.

[myxal]

2 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Looking at the 'arguments' of people criticizing that decision I can tell that Klei did the right thing to remove mighty speed boost, as well as mightiness from hunger.

Do not give in Klei. Keep it that way.

The forums/veterans in the following days/weeks: <five_stages_of_grief.png> 

 

I do like the idea of wimpy wolfgang getting a speed buff, in which case it might be worthwhile to provide a way to let the mightiness drop faster - maybe sleeping, or eating "unhealthy food" (goodies), damaging food (raw MM, red caps), or overeating (like beefalo) or just idling (how woodie's wereforms work)?

[BeeClops]

1 hour ago, Szczuku said:

Looking at the 'arguments' of people criticizing that decision I can tell that Klei did the right thing to remove mighty speed boost, as well as mightiness from hunger.

Could you detail this take? I'm curios what makes you think this

Most people criticizing this decision from what I've seen are people who play or used to play Wolfgang, and it was a defining part of his playstyle since forever. Until this refresh, no character was nerfed, each rework was a buff and making a character more of what he is. For Wolf, it's a massive nerf and a massive change in playstyle. What arguments are you talking about specifically? 

[Xtreme_D1]

from what I've seen in my beta tests, putting statues in the gym makes it easier to use and more efficient by increasing 3 strength points, and boss statues are even easier and more efficient up to 7 strength points

[MagicalStorm]

I'm confused, how does this make Wolfgang more of a team player?

[BeeClops]

6 minutes ago, MagicalStorm said:

I'm confused, how does this make Wolfgang more of a team player?

did anyone say so? It doesn't

[MagicalStorm]

1 minute ago, BeeClops said:

did anyone say so? It doesn't

I meant the update notes, but damn, nothing for the cooperation, really?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

for what i tried i really like the concept but not the execution. The meter last for long when full stomach and i can see having fun doing the minigame and using the dumbbells middle combat but the time you need to raise the meter with dumbbells ruins it and ruins his early game which was his only time to shyne and be noticeable

tankes a lot of time to fill the meter with the rock and gold dumbells, the rock one should have the speed that already has the golden one and the gem and gold one get buffed because isnt fun to constanly stop to refill it. Or atleast give a 10% speed boost while mighty to compensate this wasted time

Needing to refill it makes wimpy form a way to introduce a donwside but it will only affect noobs since the wimpy form only starts if the meter really really low but i dont think wimpy form should have any advantage. Isnt a bad idea but wont be as fun as it sounds imo

i think he needs more utility on his meter. Maybe, as other said, make so when he "works" the meter stops or make him need less swings or hits to mine, chop and hammer but wasting more tool durability. He is suppose to be one of the "OP" characters, make him really "OP" make him an expensive to maintain jack of all trades

you nerfed the speed and the hp when the ridiculous thing is his psinergy with warly's volt goat jelly. I dont care that he gets 400 damage but i dont know if is healthy for the bussiness since some players will copy that method before trying anything else and get boredd and share how boring is dst because bosses melt in 10 seconds. IDK maybe is healthy and the scenario i mentioned wont happend but is something to take into consideration. Maybe giving 100 raw damage with the jelly or making it so it only affects the damage of the weapon but dont combo with the character damage mod will work in a more coherent way

[Sweaper]

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

No, because Wolfgang can actually THROW Things..

The throw is really slow and destroy walls so forget about cheap mob farms, you could use them for koalefants and it might be alright for ancient fuelweaver's minions but there is a way better option for that. Someone might come up with better uses, but for me throwing dumbbells isn't worth it besides for shits and giggles if nothing is changed

[petterr44]

13 hours ago, petterr44 said:

I’ve never posted here before but trying the beta just now I had to…

I’ve been playing DST for a while and I've recently started really enjoying Wolfgang in boss fights and a more combative play-style. He is fun, interesting and has his challenges/downsides which makes him unique and nicely balanced. The extra damage, extra HP and speed boost are great perks for the fights meanwhile the transitions can kill you if you’re not careful or don’t time them well, and the sanity drain is definitely noticeable if you are fighting a lot or playing in the caves/ruins. The wimpy form already makes you weaker than Wes in terms of damage output and slows you down but it allows you to heal easily and conserve food if you are doing stationery chores. This allows you to think and carefully plan when to use each form. You need to think about filler food, hunger maintainers, health restoration, sanity restoration and mightiness. Everything but boring or OP with no downsides.

Klei always delivers amazing content updates and manages to keep improving the game and making the constant more fun and interesting but this update is not like that all. In fact, this update does not make any sense.
Using the gym is terrible, the whole idea of the mini game where you have to regularly click when the gold medal is in the middle does not add any fun to the character or the game, it’s tedious, boring, and annoying really… Why do I have to do that every time I need to go mighty? very unlike DST where you sometimes have mini-games (ie summer events) that you can chose to ignore completely.
The dumbbells take way too long to get you mighty (1:30 minutes for ~30 mightiness points with the regular dumbbell and the more hungry you are the longer time you need to gain mightiness - so lots of food still needed too) and this forces you to stand around and wait while watching the animation. Why would I want to sit and watch my character getting mighty while I’m sitting around doing NOTHING. It’s really inefficient and extremely frustrating. Time is limited and the last thing I want to do is to waste it. The gembell is a bit faster but regular purple gems are not accessible in early game and I still have to sit and wait while watching the animation. If you lose the Mighty form during a boss fight there is no getting it back. Throwing the dumbbells is not a useful feature as you can’t hit moving mobs like frogs but you still loose durability that is needed to gain mightiness.
Being wimpy is now punished with extra damage taken and with the stats being fixed to 200, the wimpy form doesn’t make sense anymore, you’re better off just avoiding it completely as it doesn’t have the benefits it had before. This is just removing complexity and versatility from the character.
The sanity drain is now insanely strong. The second dusk comes you have a large down arrow and the 10% when other characters are around works only when the other player is literally *stuck* to you/touching you!
And why is the speed boost gone? This was essential to his mightiness and fitness/strength, allows you to kite better and travel faster. You never had 1.25x at all times but rather always fluctuating between 1x and 1.25x while mighty, which is not always the case either as the majority of the time you would be in normal form. Other characters have speed boosts too and I don’t see anyone complaining about those…(Wanda can teleport from base to the Ancient Pseudoscience station with 1 click, and Wortox can hop across branches)

This update sadly reduces the complexity/versatility of the character, forces you to engage with a frustrating exercising mechanic, goes against his core identity and also doesn’t offer any community benefits. The character was already great and balanced as he was and this refresh just makes him much worse.

Following my previous post, adding a few practical points about him being accused of being overpowered, boring by people who don’t really play him

Wolfgang has 2x damage at 300 hunger and it decreases linearly and fast: to put it in perspective that’s just 2 Wilsons hitting at best… and at a cost too - this decreases very fast you have to maintain it at the cost of food, and you loose a lot of health and sanity fighting. As a comparison, wigfrid has 1.25x constant damage +25% damage absorption, you GAIN sanity and HP for EACH HIT and you have a really durable helmet! (Example clearing the entire ruins, wigfrid just needs cooked meat and helmets, you restore all your sanity fighting especially when kiting shadow creatures and barely lose hp, while Wolfgang loses both massively and requires healing, sanity, and good amounts of food but somehow Wolfgang is the overpowered & boring one …?)

Yes he can reach higher damage later with Chaud-Froid and spicy food, but if you are playing alone you won’t have volt goat jelly or spicy foods for a while, you’re target is not always wet and if you are playing on a public server, you still need to get the horns, the honey and be lucky to have a good Warly that not only knows his character well to help you but also is willing to farm to get enough peppers and turn them into spice and spice up meals just for you.

If I’m wimpy far from the gym and I get a hounds wave, how am I supposed to get to normal or mighty form in time for the hounds after the update?

When it comes to selfish play-style on public servers, that’s more a player trait rather than a character trait and there are other characters that attract even more selfish play-styles.

I realize that there is a lot of comments and opinions coming from people who themselves admit to never or not really playing him, and a lot of hate from people who find him boring just because he doesn’t suit their play-style. If you want to build a big base and gather lots of resources you have a myriad of characters to choose from. Talking about play-style, the speed boost is an essential part of his combative play-style it pairs with traveling a lot and going on adventures that requires covering lots of distances and making him not only better at kiting but generally more efficient.

To Klei, please listen to Wolfgang lovers and Wolfgang players who know the character well and this update is definitely not for those and does nothing other than worsening an already great character. I understand that you have spent time making this update, but in effect this will alienate the Wolfgang lovers and combat oriented players from the character or even the entire game in general and people who don’t want that game style won’t start playing him now after this.

[Guihhza]

Some people have pointed out how Wolf still didn't get a perk to directly help out the team and others noticed how the potato sacks appearing with the structure is a little weird so here's something I brainstormed:

Reduce the Gym's crafting cost to 4 Boards/2 Cut stone/1 Rope(from 4 Boards/2 Cut stone/3 Rope). the gym no longer spawns in with the potato sacks, Wolfgang has to craft them using 1 Rope and 3 Grass, the Sack can either be put into the gym or be used as a movable storage container with 4 slots that completely stop food spoilage.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 minutes ago, Guihhza said:

4 slots that completely stop food spoilage.

why no just potatoes, sounds more silly which i love xD