Wolfgang's Character Refresh is Coming Next Week!

[Eery]

6 minutes ago, Dextops said:

wait so because other characters don't have a speed boost he shouldn't have a speed boost either? also yes he was tied to something as tough as wigfrids meat diet something even harder a fast as hell hunger depletation rate which was his biggest downside and for the people saying that his new perks even out what his speed boost accomplished (it didn't) the same argument applies here does it not? except even worse because he literally does not have a downside anymore

Food is not a problem, at least not in DST, so that's not a downside, the speed nerf is fair and if u don't care about the damage as u mentioned somewhere before u can just play Wormwood for the speed buff when blooming.

[Mike23Ua]

There are speed boosting items locked behind progression though.. Such as Walking Cane, Beefalo, Woby- Woby doesn’t need a nerf because Walter still needs to kill 3 enemies for MM and needs to CONTINUE to gather MM to keep Woby in big form. The difference here is that UNLIKE Wolfgang Woby actually flings Walter off her back when trying to use her in Combat: So Walter has SPEED but no extra DAMAGE to go along beside it.

Walters speed is ironically tied to the same thing Wolfgang being Mighty used to be: Gathering lots and lots of food… except the difference is to get Walter to a point he can actually fight and stay alive: He needs to actually progress through the game getting better weapons and armor.

Wolfgang didn’t have any of that, NOW with his rework he does… you need to get better gym equipment from higher tier crafting.

It makes being Mighty feel like you actually earned it.

Instead of just being Woby with no Downsides.

I would be OKAY if he had a Speedy energy Drink, that can only be crafted while standing near some high tier crafting station (like the ancient or forgotten knowledge tab) that gave him his speed.. through PROGRESSION

Which no: just shoving food into his mouth wasn’t.

[StarlitTundra]

4 minutes ago, Dextops said:

setting up farms can destroy all characters downsides along with some skill his hunger deficiency would always be a problem because he still needs to waste time eating

thats.... not the point i was trying to make... im not saying it from a "dont get hungry" standpoint, which is what all characters have to do. im saying it from a "dont get wimpy" standpoint, because usually wolfgang players have to keep an eye on their hunger to be mighty at all times, which again, is a bit meaningless in a dst world that has more food than the regular singleplayer counterpart.

 

4 minutes ago, Dextops said:

with this new rework he isn't better for a team at all hes even worse having to waste their purple gems and stone so he can get his perks which already aren't too good but are even worse for a team

if the issue is wasting gems, id say winonas generators beat wolfgang gem consumption still (but i will admit, the catapults do an awesome job and usually contributes for all players). also, gembells arent the only option to get mighty. you can get mightness by setting up the gym with statues, which will give more mightness points faster than sitting with the dumbell.

also with tree petrification farming stone is.... really not an issue lol

[Dextops]

2 minutes ago, Eery said:

Food is not a problem, at least not in DST, so that's not a downside, the speed nerf is fair and if u don't care about the damage as u mentioned somewhere before u can just play Wormwood for the speed buff when blooming.

so one character being ruined doesn't matter because there are other characters? i want all characters to be good. Just add his speed boost back but when hes wimpy have him move slower gives him a more meaningful downside while also giving him some perks outside of combat but also helping him in his combat its the best of all worlds since you also have to do more work to achieve it so there should be no complaints for it right? right?

1 minute ago, StarlitTundra said:

thats.... not the point i was trying to make... im not saying it from a "dont get hungry" standpoint, which is what all characters have to do. im saying it from a "dont get wimpy" standpoint, because usually wolfgang players have to keep an eye on their hunger to be mighty at all times, which again, is a bit meaningless in a dst world that has more food than the regular singleplayer counterpart.

yeah im just saying theres usually a specific farm to get rid of a lot of downsides or using skill to counteract them sry if i misconstrued my point

 

2 minutes ago, StarlitTundra said:

if the issue is wasting gems, id say winonas generators beat wolfgang gem consumption still (but i will admit, the catapults do an awesome job and usually contributes for all players). also, gembells arent the only option to get mighty. you can get mightness by setting up the gym with statues, which will give more mightness points faster than sitting with the dumbell.

also with tree petrification farming stone is.... really not an issue lol

yeah you kinda said my point for me in the first little bit winona provides more to a team but anyway gembell is the most effective way to get mighty when you are away from a gym and also early game wasting stone on some crafts rather than things that would actually benefit the entire team is eh

[Mike23Ua]

1 minute ago, Dextops said:

also helping him in his combat

This is the part that was pretty much universally agree’d upon that needed to change: like I said I’m fine with him getting a speed buff: If it’s tied to being Wimpy and ineffective in Combat, Or tied to needing to go to a high tier crafting station and constantly return to this station to get Speed as a Consumable.

Otherwise: No it was broken and OP and a feature from a Single Player game where balance & Progression didn’t matter as Much.

[Dextops]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This is the part that was pretty much universally agree’d upon that needed to change: like I said I’m fine with him getting a speed buff: If it’s tied to being Wimpy and ineffective in Combat, Or tied to needing to go to a high tier crafting station and constantly return to this station to get Speed as a Consumable.

Otherwise: No it was broken and OP and a feature from a Single Player game where balance & Progression didn’t matter as Much.

balance still doesn't matter as for it being tied to wimpyness this suggestion sounds really bad and would worsen him. Biggest problem i have for him is him basically having no reason to be mighty outside of combat and making his wimpy form better than his mighty form makes it a lot worse

[GenomeSquirrel]

20 minutes ago, Dextops said:

wait so because other characters don't have a speed boost he shouldn't have a speed boost either? also yes he was tied to something as tough as wigfrids meat diet something even harder a fast as hell hunger depletation rate which was his biggest downside and for the people saying that his new perks even out what his speed boost accomplished (it didn't) the same argument applies here does it not? except even worse because he literally does not have a downside anymore
 

Food is easy to get, as evidence look at how regularly people fill multiple fridges with excess food. Not even new players die of starving.

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

Food is easy to get, as evidence look at how regularly people fill multiple fridges with excess food. Not even new players die of starving.

problem is the time loss of having to stop and eat that food and him always having to be topped off so if you cook food in a crockpot you are potentially losing food efficiency and you are punished for letting it go under with an animation that makes you vulnerable and slows you down in when trying to get somewhere 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

with more testing im starting to love the refresh, is a less plain character. His gameplay now is more funny and confortable since you dont waste resources like before

i still think that a being strong in more task than just rowing, fighting and moving things would make him more interesting. No speed buff needed if klei adds a more fitting perk like being strong at chopping or hammering

or atleast make the gym avaraible to everyone so he gets a team based perk

btw, do wolfgang gets debuff speed for wearing the ice cube?

[Dextops]

k anyway imma go offline for now feel free to continue quoting ill try to respond tomorrow

[Captain_Rage]

2 hours ago, NightfallsCurse said:

Everyone's just excited, aight?

Pretty much. xD This preview has generated more traction than the Metheus puzzle. Judging from the initial info the rework seems rather nice, even though character-specific crafting tabs is a silly way to go about with making every character stand out.

[GenomeSquirrel]

5 minutes ago, Dextops said:

problem is the time loss of having to stop and eat that food and him always having to be topped off so if you cook food in a crockpot you are potentially losing food efficiency and you are punished for letting it go under with an animation that makes you vulnerable and slows you down in when trying to get somewhere 

Inefficiency doesn’t matter when resources are plentiful, and unlike with  Wigfrid, this can be turned off when convenient.

[StarlitTundra]

9 minutes ago, Dextops said:

yeah im just saying theres usually a specific farm to get rid of a lot of downsides or using skill to counteract them sry if i misconstrued my point

all good. i understand what youre trying to say now and i agree. however, with character hunger downsides they usually cant eat a specific type of food or wont benefit much from them, whereas wolfgang can eat anything and get the full benefits. the true issue is his hunger drain, which again, is meaningless once you get farms going. and you can set up lots of food farms since wolfgang will benefit from them all.

9 minutes ago, Dextops said:

yeah you kinda said my point for me in the first little bit winona provides more to a team but anyway gembell is the most effective way to get mighty when you are away from a gym and also early game wasting stone on some crafts rather than things that would actually benefit the entire team is eh

i think a way to not waste gems is to go for gold dumbells in the early game. gold is fairly easy to get. if klei decides to add the suggestion of wolfgang being a more efficient miner/chopper stone might not also be that much of a drag to get, and with improved dumbell durability it might take a while until you have to farm it again, but we shall see. like i said with all the feedback they are bound to change something in the actual update so im not really too worried about it.

disregarding the entire rework one thing that hasnt changed about wolfgang is that hes the character with the highest dps, so if whoever is playing him is actually reliable, they can contribute a lot to keeping the base safe. if that was the thing klei took away from him with the rework then id be truly upset about it but thats not the case. hes still the same, only thing thats different is the method you have to use to achieve mightness, which again, i personally think its more rewarding than munching on food and holding f to win.

while i dont agree with everything you said one thing i agree with you on is that klei needs to make him a more team aligned character than a character who does his own thing. they gotta give him more team oriented stuff even if its just making him more efficient at mining and chopping, and i think they already went in the right direction by allowing him to carry heavy stuff faster.

im gonna log off for now so i will just agree to disagree

[MashedProtatos]

On 12/9/2021 at 7:59 PM, JoeW said:

• His speed no longer changes with his forms
• Wolfgang’s hunger and health are now at a maximum of 200 regardless of his form

Please bring his speed back. He's already losing out on 100 health in mighty form, that's more than enough of a nerf from before. Plus it's nice to have outside of combat and isn't really game breaking.  Also, some damage reduction in mighty form to counteract the 33% health loss would be nice, maybe the inverse of the damage multiplier you gave wimpy Wolfgang, but really I'm more worried about the speed.

[AnnaKristina]

I normally don’t post on here, but I can’t keep watching the Wolfgang hate quietly. 

It would be really great if you could take detailed arguments and bickering to one of the many other threads available on this topic instead of spamming this one - please leave space here so other people have a chance to provide their feedback to Klei.

To Mike23Ua:

You have posted the same opinion across ~50 posts, which is just creating noise, and you have admitted to having no vested interest in the character at all. So why are you - in spite of so many people really being unhappy - so intent on making sure they remain unhappy? Their opinion deserves to be heard, and you should be open to the idea that perhaps you are wrong. Your posts are clearly driven by hate and not the intent to make the game better or cooperate with other players. Please stop crowding valuable feedback space.

(That said, there is also no way you can credibly explain how standing in place bored while doing nothing at all constitutes game progression, and you keep going on about balance - misunderstanding that balance in DST is created by mixing characters, not by making each character more boring and alike. Please just stop your angry string of rants.)

To StarlitTundra and GenomeSquirrel:

You say food is so easy it doesn’t even constitute a downside to Wolfgang at all - even though when he is mighty his hunger drain is 3x that of a normal character. Yet Wigfrid’s meat diet poses a really “tough challenge”. What do you think Wolfgang eats? How long do you think eating a picked up berry with its slow pickup animation at 9 hunger lasts on a 3-fold hunger drain rate in terms of actual gameplay? You clearly don’t play him, so why are you voicing such strong opinions? If Wigfrid’s diet is a downside you should really try playing Wolfgang before claiming he doesn’t have one. Additionally, you keep comparing Wolfgang to Wilson and argue that if Wilson can’t do x then neither should Wolfgang. So I suppose we should just get rid of characters altogether  and we all go ahead and play Wilson.

Please stop adding toxicity to this thread. There are a lot of people on here who have posted polite, respectful, insightful, constructive feedback. Please stop spreading hate and creating more work for Klei in having to read through all this.

As for my 2 cents on the rework - I can only echo what other mature players on here have said about how this brings a complete departure from what made Wolfgang fun and loved. He never needed a nerf, and it is very sad to see those changes. People who enjoy a combative play style will now just choose Wanda  (myself included, I see no point in playing Wolfgang now) , and perhaps some of them Wig. Some people might even choose to stop playing altogether. If this is a win for anyone we are all missing the point of the “together” in DST. Please Klei rethink those changes. I’ve never seen you get it wrong, but this time you have, big time.

[wombo2]

this is cool but I think working out should increase your sanity. think about it, from a realism perspective working out improves Mental Health in and from a game play perspective you normally work out before a big fight and most mobs and giants have a sanity drain aura and being at full sanity would be very useful. 

[Capybara007]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

But dude.. you didn’t even answer my question: Every other character with the exception to Wes & arguably Wortox: Abilities are locked behind PROGRESSION.

I find it funny how some people are complaining about Wolfgang now being Useless and going on to say they will just Main Wanda in place of him- GOOD.. Wanda required more skill, and actual Progress to achieve her power..

Wolfgang did NOT & I can clearly see that’s what Klei aim’s to fix with his Rework: They made being Mighty feel like you’ve EARNED it.

Just like if the speed buff has to come back at all: it should be locked behind having to EARN it.

That is the main problem, they make you earn it but, what is what you earn? a damage boost that is only specific in combat and niche things like faster statue carrying

And the path to achieve them is not exciting at all

For wigfrid you have to gather ingrendients from the lunar island, the ruins, and the ones you craft with different types of crafting stations

With wanda you manage in what you spend your pieces on, maybe on alarming clock or maybe in more healing

With wolfgang, its about pressing the button in the right time

[HowlVoid]

Did a little research, yeah I know I have no life, and strongmen trained on a few things

-Strength

-Grip

-Cardio

It wouldn't be out of place for Wolfgang to actually mine or chop in fewer actions when Mighty. I think a fair cost would be that he also destroys his tools quicker as he is exerting an instantaneous amount of power rather than technique (Woodie for example has technique as a lumberjack).

Let's say he fells Evergreens in 12 chops instead of 15 but his flint axe now has a total of 80 uses total when Mighty. (Example pulled numbers out of thin air)

[GenomeSquirrel]

58 minutes ago, AnnaKristina said:

To StarlitTundra and GenomeSquirrel:

You say food is so easy it doesn’t even constitute a downside to Wolfgang at all - even though when he is mighty his hunger drain is 3x that of a normal character. Yet Wigfrid’s meat diet poses a really “tough challenge”. What do you think Wolfgang eats? How long do you think eating a picked up berry with its slow pickup animation at 9 hunger lasts on a 3-fold hunger drain rate in terms of actual gameplay? You clearly don’t play him, so why are you voicing such strong opinions? If Wigfrid’s diet is a downside you should really try playing Wolfgang before claiming he doesn’t have one. Additionally, you keep comparing Wolfgang to Wilson and argue that if Wilson can’t do x then neither should Wolfgang. So I suppose we should just get rid of characters altogether  and we all go ahead and play Wilson.

Like I said before, people consistently adding food to fridges is proof the world provides more food than needed to keep a character alive. No one is starving enough that either one is considered tough. But Wigfrid has the inconvenience of needing meet. Wolfgang needs more, but everyone is already gathering more than enough food. 

As far as a food to consistently keep the buff up, 15/20 bee boxes. Even with bad luck, you can set them up during first spring. Crops and meat farms can also work as alternatives

And my argument was that perks should be tied to downsides, old Wolfgang had no downsides compared to Wilson, the world simply has too much food for wimpy to be consistent. 

[GNGR bred boi]

Some changes I can live with, really disappointed that they just stretched out what he already had without giving him anything for a team based ability. Or adding pretty much outclassed little tidbits like faster rowing (though it makes sense you can just use a sail), better insulation from heat and cold (Really don't know where they were going with this one considering being mighty is pretty much exclusive to fighting now, maybe they were thinking of the Klaus fight or something at the time?) although, being able to carry statues faster and movement speed debuffs from clothing items and armor not affecting him in mighty mode make sense and I actually think they're kinda neat. I don't think he needs his speed back, it would truly be nice but maybe they could add it back to Wolfgang's wimpy mode, rewarding the player with speed but also being more susceptible to damage from attacks and heat/cold. Additionally I think they should bring back his 300 health in mighty form and 150 health in wimpy form, but keep his hunger 200 it's alright were it's at, or maybe make it 300 like before to counteract some of the complaints that mightiness doesn't last too long (which it really doesn't it goes down hella fast) For a team based ability I think the suggestions from people like "other players being able to use the mighty machine for limited buffs" and the "Energy drink/smoothie/potato juice" all sound like really good suggestions for a team based perk / item. As well as his range of seeing other players greatly increased but when alone (for example going out from base to hunt or ruins) to ofcourse go back down to -35% sanity drain. 

Perhaps make his sanity drain count on the number of people in the visible area as well? would be a bit more interesting 

 

Really in general I was just hoping for some more downsides relating to sanity considering his countless phobias 

Maybe even more sanity drain when wimpy, seen that suggested and it also makes sense 

[reallychina]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

This is the part that was pretty much universally agree’d upon that needed to change: like I said I’m fine with him getting a speed buff: If it’s tied to being Wimpy and ineffective in Combat, Or tied to needing to go to a high tier crafting station and constantly return to this station to get Speed as a Consumable.

Otherwise: No it was broken and OP and a feature from a Single Player game where balance & Progression didn’t matter as Much.

Wimpy speed is ridiculous. You want to stay close to mighty or mighty because you will fight stuff. And to get from mighty to wimpy it's like 1 day or whatever. Then you have to spend time again to reach mighty when you want to fight.

It literally makes no sense.

Wolfgang needs his speed back when mighty one way or another.

[firoborn]

what if we tie wolfgangs speed buff to his cowardiness perk? he could receive a flat 10-15% speed buff every time he is under the effect of any sanity drain or a scaling 5-25% speed buff depending on how strong the sanity drain is. I love the idea that the big buff man is constantly panicing during the dusk and night, but really i just hope if klei decides to add the speed back they do it in a more creative way but still accessible like it is now maybe not as easy to get but still easy enough that you can use it early game.

[reallychina]

10 minutes ago, firoborn said:

what if we tie wolfgangs speed buff to his cowardiness perk? he could receive a flat 10-15% speed buff every time he is under the effect of any sanity drain or a scaling 5-25% speed buff depending on how strong the sanity drain is. I love the idea that the big buff man is constantly panicing during the dusk and night, but really i just hope if klei decides to add the speed back they do it in a more creative way but still accessible like it is now maybe not as easy to get but still easy enough that you can use it early game.

 

You know what? This sounds like a good fix. I don't think linking it to sanity drain is a working idea because engdame with crown there will be no more drain, tam would block it etc. Plus it would mean he has to wear insanity draining items or the bone helm all the time. 

 

However, i think a fair compromise is giving back his speed in mighty (maybe even normal) mode during dusk and night. This would also give him the boost in caves all the time and allow for some timing setup in boss fights that would be interesting.

 

He's scared of dusk/night anyway so it would be a lore consistent approach.

[Mike23Ua]

I’m confused about the whole tie his movement speed to how sane he is suggestion, don’t bosses MASSIVELY drain Sanity when near them anyway?? So really it would be the same problem of hitting like a truck with super speed all over again correct?

I don’t see that as a proper fix, I like some of the other suggestions though such as Speedy when Wimpy or choosing a Leg Workout or Might Workout but NEVER both at the same time.

The only way the Sanity thing makes any sense is if Wolfgang GAINED Sanity when fighting Bosses.. which would then mean: He’s even more like Wigfrid, But Unlike Wigfrid who wants to stay sane in Boss fights, the Wolfgang who is now constantly GAINING Sanity, Will now need to eat some bad Sanity screwing up foods or use Sanity draining items (like a Darksword)

[DST_LSJ]

Woodie throw Lucy.

Spoiler

Add this strings into modmain.lua at anyone mod.
Asset("ANIM", "anim/player_wolfgang_dumbbell.zip")
Then join the game and [~] those code.
ThePlayer.AnimState:AddOverrideBuild("player_wolfgang_dumbbell")
ThePlayer.sg:Stop()
ThePlayer.AnimState:PlayAnimation("dumbbell_mighty_loop",true)