Wolfgang's Character Refresh is Coming Next Week!

[Hatty DeWitt]

When I first read the changes in this post, I was very unsure whether I would like it or not, but after watching some videos and streams of people playing in the beta, I'm convinced. Working out is not nearly as slow as some people are making it sound and I honestly think this is going to be pretty good and improve the Wolfgang experience.

By the way, I'm also sad about the speed boost loss, since it was a fun mechanic and made you FEEL mighty during fights, but I also think he needed a nerf, so if there was another way to make him not op, I would take it, but honestly I don't see what would do it.

Also, it takes some balls to change such a popular character in such a fundamental way like this, well done

[Astraia]

On 12/10/2021 at 9:07 AM, Duck986 said:

I've never seen any topic being hot more than three hours after being posted

Everyone's just excited, aight?

On 12/9/2021 at 8:12 PM, Guille6785 said:

yep they ruined one of my favorite characters

Then play wigfrid

On 12/9/2021 at 8:29 PM, JazzyGames said:

I am especially hyped for this. Fingers crossed for those archive walls!

Thank you, that's what I call respect...Cuz I was on a month-long vacation in Dubai and missed the skins 

[MagzUnleashed]

I may try out Wolfgang after this rework, sounds fun and I really like the idea of a work-out station, something to do on those long winter nights 

[Dextops]

2 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

When this gets finalized and we all move on with our lives, who wants to go get pizza?

as long as there is pineapple but until then gonna go guns blazing

[Owlrust]

20 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

that not having anything in exchange for it is a bad trade-off. 

I mean, you do get no speed penalty Marble Armor, that's pretty awesome ya gotta admit. I'm willing to wager that one of the reasons it was taken away was to not encourage people to try and maintain Mighty form 24/7 (which you really shouldn't since you're not fighting 24/7).

30 minutes ago, NightfallsCurse said:

Finally, we can actually do 2x damage at all times while mighty and it actually won't decrease (unless in normal or wimpy)

Me

I second that. The pizza part I mean....I just want pizza

[HowlVoid]

3 hours ago, Owlrus said:

I mean, you do get no speed penalty Marble Armor, that's pretty awesome ya gotta admit. I'm willing to wager that one of the reasons it was taken away was to not encourage people to try and maintain Mighty form 24/7 (which you really shouldn't since you're not fighting 24/7).

That existed pre-refresh too.

I'm not a close minded person, I think everyone is correct about what they're saying, they're just coming at it from a different angle. 

- Is Wolfgang's damage more consistent? Yes.

-Is the meter an interesting concept that functions well on paper? Yes.

-Do he really need speed? Not really, his damage being more consistent does make up for it.

I think what most people don't understand is that we don't want speed to increase his combat capabilities. We just wanted Wolfgang to be more versatile and less a one trick pony. 

It's like if Wormwood was only a farmer and everyone wanted him to just remain that and Wormwood couldn't have any other perks that weren't for farming (which a lot of people actually did). 

I just want Wolfgang mains to be happy, man. I don't know what to tell you, I'm kinda tired of arguing lol.

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, HowlVoid said:

I think what most people don't understand is that we don't want speed to increase his combat capabilities. We just wanted Wolfgang to be more versatile and less a one trick pony. 

speed fixes a lot of problems i have with wolfgang a lot of people just refuse to bring up
1. like you just stated being only centered around combat and not going into depth with it is boring speed could make him more generalized
2. there is little to no reason to ever ever ever ever being mighty outside of combat speed would make it so much better and carrying weights a lot more valuable 
3. even if its not much he would be more useful to a team than he is now since for now he has the exact same value to a team except even worse. Your gold and purple gems? You mean OUR GOLD AND PURPLE GEMS correct comrade?

but lets just ignore all of this for the sake of balance even if it diminishes the value of the character

[GenomeSquirrel]

12 minutes ago, Dextops said:

speed fixes a lot of problems i have with wolfgang a lot of people just refuse to bring up

But he doesn’t have unique problems to need a powerful perk like this, he was an overtuned Wilson before, and now he’s a properly tuned Wilson, getting a minor benefit for minor inconvenience.

[Dextops]

11 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

But he doesn’t have unique problems to need a powerful perk like this, he was an overtuned Wilson before, and now he’s a properly tuned Wilson, getting a minor benefit for minor inconvenience.

what? so leave his problems be because his problems aren't unique enough? who cares if its unbalanced which it isn't since you do need more work for mightyness it'd be a lot more balanced for people who cry they need a character they have never and will never play and it'd make him more fun in general because as i stated before most of the time wolfgangs perks should be ignored until you need to kill a boss you work out for a little bit kill the boss and then go back and play as a regular wilson would because his mightyness form does not give enough incentive to ever maintain it thats my biggest problem with him and adding his speed boost could fix it

also the fact that this rework removed his only downside is kinda annoying

[Mike23Ua]

They Nerfed farms you can plant in the ground, apply one or two poop to and BLAM free food, They Nerfed 1 small Morsel + 3 Ice = Meatballs as a Crockpot dish, They Nerfed Wickerbottoms books to only impact 10 things around her when it used to be everything currently on screen. They are CHANGING familiar boss fights & mechanics to be more interesting, Wolfgang was going to get hit with these same nerfs and changes sooner or later: And what you all have to take into account is that these are the changes that in order to be finalized: Had to pass approval of the Entire Dev Team first…

Which means: The removal of the speed boost & only eating food to become Mighty & Dash across the map are changes that are likely here to stay.

Now what WILL happen is Klei will balance & tweak all of this based on feedback so it’s more fun, less boring wait, more durability etc… but as far as getting back DS Wolfgang…

Games change, Developers come up with better concepts- And most importantly this is how they see their characters in their fictional universe- Wolfgang has ALWAYS been portrayed as lifting weights.. so sooner or later it was going to become part of his gameplay.

I’m not a Wolfgang Main, but Wolfgang was a boring dull character where just carrying a pierogi around solved all his hunger, lost health & speed problems- and i love how they have portrayed him as more of a STRONGMAN instead of the LARGE & PLUMP Hotdog contest eating fat man.

Realistically if someone ate as much as pre-rework Wolfgang they would be like my mother: 500 pounds, rounded body shape, slow & beyond incredibly lazy.. So I for one am glad his muscles are actually being worked out: Even if it IS Slow and boring (they can always adjust time or provide more unique ways of building & keeping it up) But to just eat and have Healing+Bonus Damage+Bonus Speed???

It was only a matter of time until they changed that.

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Realistically if someone ate as much as pre-rework Wolfgang they would be like my mother: 500 pounds, rounded body shape, slow & beyond incredibly lazy.. So I for one am glad his muscles are actually being worked out: Even if it IS Slow and boring (they can always adjust time or provide more unique ways of building & keeping it up) But to just eat and have Healing+Bonus Damage+Bonus Speed???

It was only a matter of time until they changed that.

at least it worked with his downside which current wolfgang doesn't because *drum roll* he doesn't have one anymore except for a petty sanity decrease

[Mike23Ua]

1 minute ago, Dextops said:

at least it worked with his downside which current wolfgang doesn't because *drum roll* he doesn't have one anymore except for a petty sanity decrease

But he does have that downside: in fact being in Wimpy form is now even more punishing.. so it encourages you to build his muscle up: the only problem with that is just standing around pumping iron is a slow way of building muscles up: So maybe make it so that hitting things with the Dumbell as a Melee weapon increases Mightiness or something..

But just eating Meatball shouldn’t make him as fast as the flash with the strength of hulk.

[Dextops]

Just now, Mike23Ua said:

But he does have that downside: in fact being in Wimpy form is now even more punishing.. so it encourages you to build his muscle up: the only problem with that is just standing around pumping iron is a slow way of building muscles up: So maybe make it so that hitting things with the Dumbell as a Melee weapon increases Mightiness or something..

no his wimpyness is not a downside at all and thats his biggest problem because unless you are in combat you have nothing to worry about and would you look at that? you aren't in combat most of the time an easy way to balance this is make it so if you are in wimpy form you are slower and if you are in mighty you move faster it makes sense you are more physically active so your muscle builds up so you can run for longer/faster and if you stop working out you'd become slower makes logical sense and game play sense

[Dextops]

7 minutes ago, StarlitTundra said:

no piggyback drawbacks.

can't stress this enough he already had this his mightyness speed counteracted this carrying marble pieces faster is so niche its absurd and kiting with a marble suit is stupid when you think about it for five seconds and no one is mad they can't rush bosses that is and was never the main point its that he is more specialized his perks are ignored most of the time and he has no downside making him even boring than before and crapping on people who liked him before the rework

[Mike23Ua]

Wolfgang’s Might (like every other character including Wendy..) is now tied to something called Game Progress: I know I know people who used to main Wolfgang has never heard of that but what that means: Is you need to build a Science, Alchemy Engine or for Darker Magics: Prestihatitator.

I use the word used to main- Because they probably won’t be main’ing him anymore, and why? Because like every other character (including Walter) his gameplay is tied through getting Science, Alchemy Engine, and Prestihatitator.

Even the Mighty WICKERBOTTOM who for some odd reason people thinks needs 100 nerfs gameplay revolves around PROGRESSION- Wolfgang Did NOT and Klei Fixed that..

People are just upset that they actually need to DO SOMETHING besides take a Super Pill and become invincible..

As OP as you all claim Wanda & Wendy is you also can’t deny that their abilities aren’t locked behind progression: something Old Wolfgang has never heard of.

NOW you can get the Gembell by simply building a Prestihatitator & combining a red gem and a blue gem to create a purple Gem- It’s called PROGRESSION..

And I pray Klei doesn’t cave and reverse these changes: They actually made being Mighty feel like I’ve earned it.

[GenomeSquirrel]

11 minutes ago, Dextops said:

what? so leave his problems be because his problems aren't unique enough? who cares if its unbalanced which it isn't since you do need more work for mightyness it'd be a lot more balanced for people who cry they need a character they have never and will never play and it'd make him more fun in general because as i stated before most of the time wolfgangs perks should be ignored until you need to kill a boss you work out for a little bit kill the boss and then go back and play as a regular wilson would because his mightyness form does not give enough incentive to ever maintain it thats my biggest problem with him and adding his speed boost could fix it

also the fact that this rework removed his only downside is kinda annoying

Having few downsides is balanced by having a few upsides, he never had problems that Wilson didn’t have, so he doesn’t need to scout better or move faster than enemies were designed to hit. he doesn’t have a restricted diet, need to baby feed a merm king; he has a moderately good upside for a moderately good upside, that’s what balance is.

and let’s be honest, with the former ease of turning it off, wimpy form was functionally just a different set of upsides.

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

Having few downsides is balanced by having a few upsides, he never had problems that Wilson didn’t have, so he doesn’t need to scout better or move faster than enemies were designed to hit. he doesn’t have a restricted diet, need to baby feed a merm king; he has a moderately good upside for a moderately good upside, that’s what balance is.

and let’s be honest, with the former ease of turning it off, wimpy form was functionally just a different set of upsides.

don't understand what you're saying here completely? but he hasn't really gained any new perks that are worth mentioning but instead had his biggest downside removed so hes more boring and removed his biggest upside so hes even more specialized

[Mike23Ua]

1 minute ago, Dextops said:

don't understand what you're saying here completely? but he hasn't really gained any new perks that are worth mentioning but instead had his biggest downside removed so hes more boring and removed his biggest upside so hes even more specialized

Would you be happier if he could craft a mighty Amulet of great Speed that was locked behind having to actually progress through the game and do something- such as: Gather rare ingredients in the crafting costs and stand near the ancient p-word station down in the ruins? Or perhaps maybe the Forgotten Knowledges station found in the Lunar Grotto?

You all say Wanda is OP and Broken: But you probably don’t even play Wanda so your not aware that her clocks aren’t cheap: Especially the ones locked behind PROGRESSION.

Something Wolfgang lacked, & Klei fixed.

[Dextops]

Just now, Mike23Ua said:

You all say Wanda is OP and Broken: But you probably don’t even play Wanda so your not aware that her clocks aren’t cheap: Especially the ones locked behind PROGRESSION.

i have legit never said that wanda was op and have said against this

[StarlitTundra]

2 minutes ago, Dextops said:

can't stress this enough he already had this his mightyness speed counteracted this carrying marble pieces faster is so niche its absurd and kiting with a marble suit is stupid when you think about it for five seconds and no one is mad they can't rush bosses that is and was never the main point its that he is more specialized his perks are ignored most of the time and he has no downside making him even boring than before and crapping on people who liked him before the rework

the speed boost only applied if he was mighty. with the rework you dont need to stay mighty to negate the piggyback speed penalty. i do see your point about the marble suit though, no one wears marble suit to kite enemies.

also the point you make about no one being mad about not being able to rush bosses is wrong because ive seen a lot of folks upset about the fact that they have to put in some extra work to go smack some endgame bosses. maybe not everyone but a certain part of the playerbase is.

also i dont really know what you mean about the no downsides part? past wolfgang didnt really have any downsides. maybe in singleplayer, but if youre playing dont starve TOGETHER you have tons of food around the map you can pick up and just eat to get mighty anytime you want. thats the main reason i didnt find wolfgang fun, i dont wanna run around the map and gather food just to constantly get the speed and damage multiplier.

[Dextops]

Just now, StarlitTundra said:

also the point you make about no one being mad about not being able to rush bosses is wrong because ive seen a lot of folks upset about the fact that they have to put in some extra work to go smack some endgame bosses. maybe not everyone but a certain part of the playerbase is.

at least on the forums i have seen more people memeing saying "awww look at all those people mad they can't rush bosses" when 1. there are more legitimate complaints 2. any one can rush bosses this didn't fix it

 

1 minute ago, StarlitTundra said:

also i dont really know what you mean about the no downsides part? past wolfgang didnt really have any downsides. maybe in singleplayer, but if youre playing dont starve TOGETHER you have tons of food around the map you can pick up and just eat to get mighty anytime you want. thats the main reason i didnt find wolfgang fun, i dont wanna run around the map and gather food just to constantly get the speed and damage multiplier.

a big hunger drain is a big downside more time trying to find food/eating that food only reason he isn't wortox level bad was because he had good upsides (his speed) a lot of people say food isn't a problem yet claimed old wicker was op

also for the piggyback beefalos/woby exist should woby be nerfed (klei im joking please for the love of god don't nerf woby)

[Mike23Ua]

But dude.. you didn’t even answer my question: Every other character with the exception to Wes & arguably Wortox: Abilities are locked behind PROGRESSION.

I find it funny how some people are complaining about Wolfgang now being Useless and going on to say they will just Main Wanda in place of him- GOOD.. Wanda required more skill, and actual Progress to achieve her power..

Wolfgang did NOT & I can clearly see that’s what Klei aim’s to fix with his Rework: They made being Mighty feel like you’ve EARNED it.

Just like if the speed buff has to come back at all: it should be locked behind having to EARN it.

[GenomeSquirrel]

2 minutes ago, Dextops said:

don't understand what you're saying here completely? but he hasn't really gained any new perks that are worth mentioning but instead had his biggest downside removed so hes more boring and removed his biggest upside so hes even more specialized

Wolfgang never had Wolfgang exclusive problems, he always got to live a comfy Wilson life. Most characters don’t get easy speed boost, and being near identical to Wilson, he shouldn’t be entitled to it either. That’s what balance is. He isn’t tied to anything as tough as Wigfrid’s meat diet, or Wurt baby sitting, he shouldn’t have something remarkably better without a penalty.

[StarlitTundra]

12 minutes ago, Dextops said:

at least on the forums i have seen more people memeing saying "awww look at all those people mad they can't rush bosses" when 1. there are more legitimate complaints 2. any one can rush bosses this didn't fix it

im gonna say it: both sides memeing and making fun of each other is already getting old. yes, all characters can rush bosses but wolfgang is usually the go-to character for these types of things because he can do it faster, while with characters like wanda you usually need to rush the alarming clock to be able to do that.

 

Quote

a big hunger drain is a big downside more time trying to find food/eating that food only reason he isn't wortox level bad was because he had good upsides (his speed) a lot of people say food isn't a problem yet claimed old wicker was op

exactly my point. in singleplayer this is a considerable downside since food is usually more scattered (this is not the case in dst since its a multiplayer game so theres more food laying around the map) but not in dst once you get food farms set up. wolfgang can have a decent food supply by just stockpiling potatoes + all the food you can gather around the map to make even more filling foods. this is also why wolfgang is considered a character who mostly does his own thing in dst. hogs all the food for mightness and the other players gotta help manage the ice box in return. this isnt exactly balanced either from a multiplayer standpoint.

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

Wolfgang never had Wolfgang exclusive problems, he always got to live a comfy Wilson life. Most characters don’t get easy speed boost, and being near identical to Wilson, he shouldn’t be entitled to it either. That’s what balance is. He isn’t tied to anything as tough as Wigfrid’s meat diet, or Wurt baby sitting, he shouldn’t have something remarkably better without a penalty.

wait so because other characters don't have a speed boost he shouldn't have a speed boost either? also yes he was tied to something as tough as wigfrids meat diet something even harder a fast as hell hunger depletation rate which was his biggest downside and for the people saying that his new perks even out what his speed boost accomplished (it didn't) the same argument applies here does it not? except even worse because he literally does not have a downside anymore

1 minute ago, StarlitTundra said:

im gonna say it: both sides memeing and making fun of each other is already getting old. yes, all characters can rush bosses but wolfgang is usually the go-to character for these types of things because he can do it faster, while with characters like wanda you usually need to rush the alarming clock to be able to do that.

 

exactly my point. in singleplayer this is a considerable downside but not in dst once you get food farms set up. wolfgang can have a decent food supply by just stockpiling potatoes + all the food you can gather around the map to make even more filling foods. this is also why wolfgang is considered a character who mostly does his own thing in dst. hogs all the food for mightness and the other players gotta help manage the ice box in return. this isnt exactly balanced either from a multiplayer standpoint.

setting up farms can destroy all characters downsides along with some skill his hunger deficiency would always be a problem because he still needs to waste time eating and with this new rework he isn't better for a team at all hes even worse having to waste their purple gems and stone so he can get his perks which already aren't too good but are even worse for a team

24 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Would you be happier if he could craft a mighty Amulet of great Speed that was locked behind having to actually progress through the game and do something- such as: Gather rare ingredients in the crafting costs and stand near the ancient p-word station down in the ruins? Or perhaps maybe the Forgotten Knowledges station found in the Lunar Grotto?

nah what i would like would be hmmm idk maybe a permanent speed boost but requires him to be full but also comes with the downside of higher hunger drain that will always be a thorn in your backside and if you wanna keep that speed boost you have to keep eating and eating