What do you think about Pick and Swap characters?

[Friendly Grass]

Spoiler

The telelocator staff has 5 uses and costs:

2 Living Logs, 4 Nightmare Fuel, 2 Purple Gems

As WX-78, when used on another creature, while on the surface, the lightning strike it summons strikes WX and provides overcharge.

This also provides 100 health at the cost of -83 sanity (-50 from tele use, -33 from lightning strike)

This overcharge lasts a random amount of time: 4-8 minutes, or an average of 6 minutes.

Lightning strikes while WX is already overcharged have diminishing returns. For example, a lightning strike when they already have 12 minutes of overcharge provides an additional 2.67 - 4.45 minutes overcharge.

 

Just providing some accurate information about overcharging WX with telelocator staves in DST.

[Eery]

Well Klei could implement some kind of a cooldown on the portal or the idol like 15 in game days, maybe?.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

who cares?

is a good game mechanic but kinda cheap for the potential but you arent forced to use it

[Yuuko]

I see this complaint come up a lot but I feel its a very small section of the community who cares about this - because there is only a small section of the community who reaches a point where they could swap to warly and already have all the resources to spam cook and fill bundling wraps so they can swap back.

So in a nutshell I say the problem is likely with your own exploitation of the game.  You can't build a queen bee oven and then complain about bee queen fight being broken b/c the oven is easy.  There are a lot of people who love to fight bee queen in other ways, your oven is your own doing.  Stop building an oven and fight her if you got that much problem with it.  Its your world to play how you want.

If you don't want Winona to be a pick and switch, then start the world as her instead...  Stick with only her the entire worldgen.  Why are you swapping characters if you don't like it?

[Yuuko]

Quote

I hate Winona with a passion.  Simply for the reason that the forum users consider her a "replacement" for Wagstaff

When you wanna switchy switch but your pick n switch is a switch of picks T_T 

(dang idk why but I got the wrong quote with this but I fixed it)

[Keller Max]

Can we talk about Pick and Swap characters please? I've had enough of that SJW cringe.

15 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I see this complaint come up a lot but I feel its a very small section of the community who cares about this - because there is only a small section of the community who reaches a point where they could swap to warly and already have all the resources to spam cook and fill bundling wraps so they can swap back.

So in a nutshell I say the problem is likely with your own exploitation of the game.  You can't build a queen bee oven and then complain about bee queen fight being broken b/c the oven is easy.  There are a lot of people who love to fight bee queen in other ways, your oven is your own doing.  Stop building an oven and fight her if you got that much problem with it.  Its your world to play how you want.

If you don't want Winona to be a pick and switch, then start the world as her instead...  Stick with only her the entire worldgen.  Why are you swapping characters if you don't like it?

We aren't talking about easy ways to do stuff. Its more like "Make characters better so they are worth playing. Warly, on his own, not worth playing at all. He doesn't have upsides. Only downsides. And they are kinda huge.

[Yuuko]

4 minutes ago, Keller Max said:

Can we talk about Pick and Swap characters please? I've had enough of that SJW cringe.

We aren't talking about easy ways to do stuff. Its more like "Make characters better so they are worth playing. Warly, on his own, not worth playing at all. He doesn't have upsides. Only downsides.

But they are worth playing - I play Warly and Winona all the time.  What you're complaining about is that SOME people exploit the character swap portal to make playing the game a lot easier.  Might as well complain about people building a wall to hold back dfly's lavae, building an oven for bee queen, bugging out AFW, switching to Wolfgang for boss fights, using rollbacks, console commands, ect ect ect...  These things don't have to be "fixed" for you to stop using them.  If you don't like them, stop using them.  Who cares what someone else is doing in their own world...

And lets be real and talk thematics for a second.  Winona is an engineer, the most in character thing she could do is show up, fix your problem, and leave lol

[SuperMeatGoy]

1 minute ago, Shosuko said:

But they are worth playing - I play Warly and Winona all the time.  What you're complaining about is that SOME people exploit the character swap portal to make playing the game a lot easier.  Might as well complain about people building a wall to hold back dfly's lavae, building an oven for bee queen, bugging out AFW, switching to Wolfgang for boss fights, using rollbacks, console commands, ect ect ect...  These things don't have to be "fixed" for you to stop using them.  If you don't like them, stop using them.  Who cares what someone else is doing in their own world...

well exploits are exploits. character swap "abuse" is a legitimate flaw in a the mechanic.

[Guille6785]

pick and swap isn't a problem to me at all, not that I wouldn't like to see some changes to warly and nona but that's for different reasons

[Yuuko]

10 minutes ago, SuperMeatGoy said:

well exploits are exploits. character swap "abuse" is a legitimate flaw in a the mechanic.

What's flawed about it?  The designers wanted to add a way for players to easily swap characters, and the portal provides this.  Working as intended.

Your decision to exploit the game mechanics for "optimal" or "meta" play is your own choice of play style.  You can choose to start your game as Wolfgang to utilize his speed and damage to clear all the bosses in the first year, and swap to another character to live easy on that loot.  Or you can choose to start as who you want to play, and stay as them because its your own choice.  Both play styles are valid.

[Keller Max]

Just now, SuperMeatGoy said:

well exploits are exploits. character swap "abuse" is a legitimate flaw in a the mechanic.

I agree with you. If you are making a character swap mechanics, you should balance things around it. There are way too many broken things that can be exploited. And they all should be fixed. Boat bee queen, Houndius Shootius Fuelweaver, Crab King with Beeeees. Those are EXPLOITS.

Character swapping is a legal exploit (because you can get benefits of other characters without even playing them). But exploit is still an Exploit that should be fixed somehow. By disabling the swapping or by rebalancing things around it, which is more likely, since people like to abuse celestial portal way too much.

[Cheggf]

Wormwood isn't a pick and swap character. He can be if you're doing some lategame stuff where everyone is more or less a pick and swap character, but that would be for quickly creating a ton of pumpkins or whatever to then bundle, not for living logs. Wormwood has a permanent 20% speed boost, can hold a bunch of dark swords for only 1 inventory slot instead of 2, has great sanity management, and a bunch of lesser perks like bees and plants not attacking him.

But onto the question, I don't mind. I don't think pick and swap is necessarily a bad thing, but I do wish characters had some reason to stick on them. Warly would not really be notably stronger, but would be way more fun, if food buffs lasted twice as long for him. He'd still be "pick and swap", of course, and the benefit of his dishes lasting longer would not really be that helpful due to how easy most of them are to amass, but it would be a lot of fun and open up a few possibilities for some of his less used dishes. 

I've never thought about what Winona could get because I don't play her. Sorry, Winona.

[Keller Max]

2 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

What's flawed about it?  The designers wanted to add a way for players to easily swap characters, and the portal provides this.  Working as intended.

Your decision to exploit the game mechanics for "optimal" or "meta" play is your own choice of play style.  You can choose to start your game as Wolfgang to utilize his speed and damage to clear all the bosses in the first year, and swap to another character to live easy on that loot.  Or you can choose to start as who you want to play, and stay as them because its your own choice.  Both play styles are valid.

I guess killing Fuelweaver with shootius is an intended way. I mean, devs are just too lazy to fix stuff in their game.

At this point i'm not even sure that Wes was suppose to be a joke character.

[Yuuko]

Just now, Keller Max said:

I agree with you. If you are making a character swap mechanics, you should balance things around it. There are way too many broken things that can be exploited. And they all should be fixed. Boat bee queen, Houndius Shootius Fuelweaver, Crab King with Beeeees. Those are EXPLOITS.

Character swapping is a legal exploit (because you can get benefits of other characters without even playing them). But exploit is still an Exploit that should be fixed somehow. By disabling the swapping or by rebalancing things around it, which is more likely, since people like to abuse celestial portal way too much.

Is it an exploit?  Or is it intended?  What makes you think the portal isn't working exactly as Klei wants?

Klei is on record liking emergent gameplay, and putting fun factor over balance concerns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergent_gameplay

 

[thegreatJash]

3 minutes ago, Keller Max said:

I guess killing Fuelweaver with shootius is an intended way. I mean, devs are just too lazy to fix stuff in their game.

 

Yes, the devs are extremely lazy. Updates once a month, new skins, twitch drops, and four events a year. Totally agree.

[Keller Max]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Wormwood isn't a pick and swap character. He can be if you're doing some lategame stuff where everyone is more or less a pick and swap character, but that would be for quickly creating a ton of pumpkins or whatever to then bundle, not for living logs. Wormwood has a permanent 20% speed boost, can hold a bunch of dark swords for only 1 inventory slot instead of 2, has great sanity management, and a bunch of lesser perks like bees and plants not attacking him.

But onto the question, I don't mind. I don't think pick and swap is necessarily a bad thing, but I do wish characters had some reason to stick on them. Warly would not really be notably stronger, but would be way more fun, if food buffs lasted twice as long for him. He'd still be "pick and swap", of course, and the benefit of his dishes lasting longer would not really be that helpful due to how easy most of them are to amass, but it would be a lot of fun and open up a few possibilities for some of his less used dishes. 

I've never thought about what Winona could get because I don't play her. Sorry, Winona.

Give Winona a way to repair weapons, armors and BAM! Nobody would want to swap that sweet candy. Unless they stockpile 1% dark swords and swap to Winona for a day to repair them all.

[1bubbainpa]

Ooh, hot topic.

I think character swapping is... Okay? Like yeah, it’s pretty busted and technically you wouldn’t NEED to swap characters unless you’re with somebody who is a meta elitists and froths at the mouth if you dare pick Winona, but then that’s a them problem.

EDIT: Ah, I see why the topic is hot.

[HowlVoid]

I would like to see every character become well-rounded as a way to alleviate the swap issue.

I went into great detail on a past post on how I feel so I'll just add this-

Sometimes its easy to feal jealous for what another character can do, the common counter being, this is a multiplayer game. I play solo and sometimes I feel like my solo playstyle is judged to be an invalid playstyle. I would very much like for Wormwood to do more damage so that things like toadstool don't take 30+ minutes as a solo player; it is too a valid playstyle!

On that note, I will probably never not cheese toadstool, crabking, and fuelweaver. As long as I can cheese them Im good.

[Hornete]

11 minutes ago, Keller Max said:

I guess killing Fuelweaver with shootius is an intended way. I mean, devs are just too lazy to fix stuff in their game.

At this point i'm not even sure that Wes was suppose to be a joke character.

I just wanna ask, Why do you care about these exploits? As long as you don't use them, theyll never affect you. So why do you care about other players using them?

[Guille6785]

13 minutes ago, Keller Max said:

I guess killing Fuelweaver with shootius is an intended way

it is, they've explicitly said it in previous threads

[Keller Max]

24 minutes ago, thegreatJash said:

Yes, the devs are extremely lazy. Updates once a month, new skins, twitch drops, and four events a year. Totally agree.

Woooow! New skin for a garbage can? Shieeet bro! Thats a total changer! My game experience will skyrocket now! Wait! Did you say NEW PROFILE ICON? Oh my gosh oh my gosh! Im sweating right now. I can't believe it! Or wait! A non permanent event, that will be irrelevant after 2 weeks? Sign me in. Best **** ever.

Who cares about bugs, exploits, unbalanced characters when i can enjoy MY NEW PROFILE FRAME! Hooray KLEI!

Remember how long we struggled with occupied containers thingy? Removing that was pretty much best update ever, but don't forget the fact, they did it after that many years.

I support devs by buying skins and characters. In return, i want devs to support this game., make it fun, make changes, balances. But in return we have exploits that are called "FUN FEATURES"

[Hornete]

6 minutes ago, Keller Max said:

snip

wow, this might be the most annoying comment I have read on the forums in a long time.

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, Keller Max said:

Woooow! New skin for a garbage can? Shieeet bro! Thats a total changer! My game experience will skyrocket now! Wait! Did you say NEW PROFILE ICON? Oh my gosh oh my gosh! Im sweating right now. I can't believe it! Or wait! A non permanent event, that will be irrelevant after 2 weeks? Sign me in. Best **** ever.

Who cares about bugs, exploits, unbalanced characters when i can enjoy MY NEW PROFILE FRAME! Hooray KLEI!

Remember how long we struggled with occupied containers thingy? Removing that was pretty much best update ever, but don't forget the fact, they did it after that many years.

I support devs by buying skins and characters. In return, i want devs to support this game., make it fun, make changes, balances. But in return we have exploits that are called "FUN FEATURES"

You're venting, if you want change this isn't the way to go about it.

What you may not be aware of is that they have been strained on resources for years; running at 100%.

That event was to close a gap where there is otherwise nothing to do. You don't know what they were working for in the background. You think big content like RWYS, Forgotten knowledge etc were completed in a month? No. They push out small content and work on bigger things in the background. What's more, its free; don't be ungrateful. 

[QuartzBeam]

41 minutes ago, Keller Max said:

I guess killing Fuelweaver with shootius is an intended way. I mean, devs are just too lazy to fix stuff in their game.

There is, at this moment, absolutely nothing stopping you from engaging with the game in a way that you believe is fair. The exploits you mention don't pop up magically mid-fight; the player has to go out of their way to pull them off, so it takes literally no effort on your part to avoid them.

Yet here you are basically throwing a tantrum because you can't stand knowing that somewhere out there there are people who are playing the game and enjoying themselves in a way that you, the God-Appointed Sole Arbiter of Justice and Fairness, do not approve of.

[Bird Up]

wormwood is dummy strong. I would like winona to have her own versatile mechanics that make her stand out. even if warly were a swap character which i dont think he is, he has a much more interesting playstyle than others.