Wolfgang does NOT need a nerf

[Toros]

1 hour ago, stranger again said:

yeh im not the best at english

im pretty good at english but i wasn't born with the english language so im kinda dumb,sorry

anyways on topic wolfgang nerf is a yes from me 

You aren’t dumb.  You might have some weak points with english, but your english is a lot better than my fluency in your native language.

1 hour ago, Seero said:

we are almost on the same page except for this, I want to use the magil as a proper counter super badly, but it's just not working out. I really really like speed boosts in this game even though I don't play Wolfgang often

 

OH GOD PLEASE NO

KLEI DONT ECLIPSE MY FAVORITE CHARACTER

 

this is precisely why Wolfgang's role as a strong solo character is what makes him so great

Thank you for sharing your opinion, it doesn't matter if we disagree I think this is one of the best replies i've gotten so far

I actually have a secondary reason that I don’t care for Wolfgang’s speed boost, and it may be a better argument for you.

Kiting is generally very consistent assuming low latency for every character except Wolfgang.  He doesn’t actually have a speed boost the way canes have a speed boost, but as Wolfgang’s size changes so does his speed because the game automatically makes something faster when you increase the size.  I imagine this was done to avoid the “running on ice” look when the animation is faster than actual speed.

Wolfgang’s speed however is a linear increase from 225 to 300 hunger, which means for fights like Dragonfly with tight timing having an inconsistent speed boost is a big deal and can change the number of hits per dodge depending on current hunger.

However, I could get behind a combat only flat 25% speed boost while in mighty form, since it retains the combat relevant bonus that is important for some fights without making Wolfgang a better explorer or causing the inconsistency issue I mentioned earlier.

[minespatch]

Why is this thread four pages long?

[MondayNight]

3 hours ago, minespatch said:

Why is this thread four pages long?

Just you wait till Wolf gets his inevitable rework with certain nerfs as cherry tops and the equally unavoidable deluge of "Stronkman" mains comes pouring in these forums their salty bathwater tears of "happiness 'n' joy" for not being able to stick to their "meta". Prepare popcorn

[GelatinousCube]

2 hours ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Just you wait till Wolf gets his inevitable rework with certain nerfs as cherry tops and the equally unavoidable deluge of "Stronkman" mains comes pouring in these forums their salty bathwater tears of "happiness 'n' joy" for not being able to stick to their "meta". Prepare popcorn

As a Wig main I cannot wait to spectate the inevitable chaos during Wolfgangs rework.

[Cassielu]

Yes, I argee that Wolfgang does not need a nerf.

 

What he really needs is COMPLETELY REWORK.

[Gi-Go]

I hope klei will realize how controversial this topic is and simply won't touch Wolfgang. 

Unlike other characters who nobody liked before rework, Wolfgang is pretty popular the way he is now.

Don't fix what isn't broken. 

[viberr]

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

I hope klei will realize how controversial this topic is and simply won't touch Wolfgang. 

well klei said they will rework EVERY character so they will definitely touch wolfgang eventually

[ShakerGER]

What Seero is trying to convey here seems very much come out of a place of fear. Probably because of any kind of change, of course he will get nerfed. Many times it has been mentioned, and it is incredibly apparent that he is Wilson+ (Like WX and to some extent Wicker). So to make him any kind of exciting to play there needs to be some kind of thing to work around. Something more than sanity drain or spoilage (Wicker) because you work around these things what ever character you play.

I would really to hammer home that statements like: "But noobs aren't applicable in a balance argument. As the topic varies a lot, and PART of the definition for a broken character is probably a character who makes the game WAY to easy for a new player, but there are other factors." are definitely NOT OKAY especially in a cooperative game. Any and all skill levels should be tried to be accounted for. I often say to new players "pick someone from the first row, and you will be fine!" the first few characters aren't too special or very easy to get a hold of without trivializing the game.

Quote

yeah but when they design a new boss they have to design it around how much damage WOLFGANG can do.  If its not enough for him to get a challenge then its too easy, this means for other characters its absolutely atrocious! -ArubaruBeefalo

This also another concern. Wolfgang is the ONE CHARACTER that limits design space second to none (maybe debatable Maxwell being a distant 2nd). I am sure I am not the only one that is quite puzzled that a boss like Dragonfly which doesn't really have different player roles to fulfill like Toadstool has nearly 30k HP? Sure larvae is a thing, but they deal so incredibly high damage and health that they are best avoided.

Overall every scaredy cat that fears that Wolfgang will be nerfed into the ground doesn't really see that besides their specific niche group very little people like to play or help Wolfgang because he is very bland

Quote

This destroys him in solo play, which is part of what makes him really good, and not only do I think characters should be more independent while still helping there team (like WX) -Seero

If you seriously think that WX is anything more to his team but an unneeded garbage disposal unit and a late game flashlight then there is a long explanation about balance to be had with that particular person. WX will also get his piece of pie. Right now he is a worse Wolfgang or a worse Wormwood. 

[Mike23Ua]

9 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

I hope klei will realize how controversial this topic is and simply won't touch Wolfgang. 

Unlike other characters who nobody liked before rework, Wolfgang is pretty popular the way he is now.

Don't fix what isn't broken. 

Yeah.. that’s not how reworks work, and I’ve already posted the image where Klei officially states they expect their character refreshes to be game changing in many ways.

I’ll say this again: As a XBOX or PlayStation player without access to the near infinite things you can do on PC with Mods, these Character reworks, QoL Updates & Return of Them content updates is Klei’s way of providing those of us who can’t just “Download Mod” with brand new exciting content to play with and enjoy-

In the form of new biomes, new mobs, new abilities, new craftable items etc..

Which coincidentally ALSO happens to be why I disliked Wigfrids Refresh the most- They really didn’t add or change much about her gameplay, she plays roughly the same as she always has and since her Stagecraft songs really only see use when constantly engaged in battle with something- even those scrolls leave something to be desired.

there are Seven characters that have yet to be reworked Wolfgang is one of those 7- And if they’re just going to leave any of those seven pretty much the same way they play now: What is even the point of reworking them to begin with??

Why waste time, and resources on it at all?? And instead invest those resources and time into bigger biome updates with new mobs or something.

Klei stated these reworks would be game changing in many ways.. and as a console player who can’t install all the mods my heart desires- I look at these 7 remaining reworks pretty much as Blank Canvas’s sure they have a rough draft of what players want/expect from them...

But it’s basically the same thing as taking a Concept Art and filling that black and white photo with color and more detail.

So long story cut incredibly short: I will be highly disappointed if the 7 remaining reworks remain to play roughly the same as they always have- Wendy, Willow, Woodie & now even Wormwood, those are the kinds of massive wildly different reworks I want and I expect.

[Gi-Go]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yeah.. that’s not how reworks work, and I’ve already posted the image where Klei officially states they expect their character refreshes to be game changing in many ways.

I’ll say this again: As a XBOX or PlayStation player without access to the near infinite things you can do on PC with Mods, these Character reworks, QoL Updates & Return of Them content updates is Klei’s way of providing those of us who can’t just “Download Mod” with brand new exciting content to play with and enjoy-

In the form of new biomes, new mobs, new abilities, new craftable items etc..

Which coincidentally ALSO happens to be why I disliked Wigfrids Refresh the most- They really didn’t add or change much about her gameplay, she plays roughly the same as she always has and since her Stagecraft songs really only see use when constantly engaged in battle with something- even those scrolls leave something to be desired.

there are Seven characters that have yet to be reworked Wolfgang is one of those 7- And if they’re just going to leave any of those seven pretty much the same way they play now: What is even the point of reworking them to begin with??

Why waste time, and resources on it at all?? And instead invest those resources and time into bigger biome updates with new mobs or something.

Klei stated these reworks would be game changing in many ways.. and as a console player who can’t install all the mods my heart desires- I look at these 7 remaining reworks pretty much as Blank Canvas’s sure they have a rough draft of what players want/expect from them...

But it’s basically the same thing as taking a Concept Art and filling that black and white photo with color and more detail.

So long story cut incredibly short: I will be highly disappointed if the 7 remaining reworks remain to play roughly the same as they always have- Wendy, Willow, Woodie & now even Wormwood, those are the kinds of massive wildly different reworks I want and I expect.

I don't think you get what reworks are for. They are not for temporary amusement of a console player who want something fresh. Character reworks are for fixing broken character that have a bad game design. Wendy is by far the best rework and it's not because she is fresh and original. It's because summoning dumb minion with zero control once every 4 days, that has even bigger suicide tendencies than Wendy herself is an awful game design. Wendy (or rather Abigail) was awfully designed and klei fixed it. That's what a rework is.

Wigfrid refresh seems dull because she doesn't really need a rework. They added her songs aimed at team work and that's the direction klei are headed to. I don't agree with it but nor do I really care since you can completely ignore her books and new meter and play wigfrid like before.

This is also what i want for Wolfgang. Don't change any of his mechanics, just add more optional perks to support teammates if you feel like that's a good thing. 

[Mike23Ua]

9 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

I don't think you get what reworks are for. They are not for temporary amusement of a console player who want something fresh. Character reworks are for fixing broken character that have a bad game design. Wendy is by far the best rework and it's not because she is fresh and original. It's because summoning dumb minion with zero control once every 4 days, that has even bigger suicide tendencies than Wendy herself is an awful game design. Wendy (or rather Abigail) was awfully designed and klei fixed it. That's what a rework is.

Wigfrid refresh seems dull because she doesn't really need a rework. They added her songs aimed at team work and that's the direction klei are headed to. I don't agree with it but nor do I really care since you can completely ignore her books and new meter and play wigfrid like before.

This is also what i want for Wolfgang. Don't change any of his mechanics, just add more optional perks to support teammates if you feel like that's a good thing. 

Okay but that only explains Wendy’s rework, what about all the changes to Willow, Woodie and Wormwoods?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, Mike23Ua said:

Okay but that only explains Wendy’s rework, what about all the changes to Willow, Woodie and Wormwoods?

Can be explained by the same logic lel

And you talk like all pc players uses mods that changes the gameplay when that isnt true 

[Gi-Go]

43 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Okay but that only explains Wendy’s rework, what about all the changes to Willow, Woodie and Wormwoods?

In short:

Willow was hated by community mostly because of Edgy Rick spreading rumors that willow dies from insanity by freezing. That wasn't an actual thing but people found it funny to hate on Willows. Hence the rework - fixing nonexistent issues. 

Woodie got rework when he joined dst and it was awful. Eating wood and dying from shadow creatures were woodie's hobbies. Hence resent rework is just a rework of a rework. 

Wormwood didn't actually get a rework he just got changed a bit due to new farm mechanics. Wormwood was such a bad character people called him a challenge character. Now he is obviously better so I guess all is well. 

 

18 hours ago, stranger again said:

well klei said they will rework EVERY character so they will definitely touch wolfgang eventually

General life advice is to never make promises. Some times you just change your mind and it's not healthy to force yourself or others to do something. 

So, I don't take that as a promise, just as something they planned on doing but may very well not do. Or meaby they are still determined to do it.

Either way is fine. 

[ShadowDuelist]

Wolfgang will most likely get a curve ball rework, that is, his main perks will remain exactly the same as they are (any change will cause an outrage) and he will get entirely new perks.

Spoiler

 

EG: I suggested a long time ago that he could start an animation (Like TF2’s high five) and when someone else accepts it, he can throw the other player at a distance causing AOE damage upon landing. The person that controls the jump and landing area is the one that is thrown.

This would allow team interactions to explore beyond water gaps or void gaps, a new type of team based attack against groups of mobs, and 0 change to his main perks. For single player use maybe he can throw befriended pigs who will accept the animation if he starts it, to attack enemies. Different characters thrown could also have different effects, like a woodie tossed near trees will cause them to break, a Wendy may cause Abigail to do a quick  extra attack around her, a Wes may bounce on a balloon pillow for a second smaller jump, etc.

 Just to mention a simple and silly example of the type of changes he could receive.

 

 

[Seero]

4 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

EG: I suggested a long time ago that he could start an animation (Like TF2’s high five) and when someone else accepts it, he can throw the other player at a distance causing AOE damage upon landing. The person that controls the jump and landing area is the one that is thrown.

 

i forgot wolfgang was heavy from tf2

[QuartzBeam]

I too believe Wolfgang shouldn't be nerfed.

Klei should just take this very strong character and give them additional perks that are simultaneously worth spending a whole update on and that do not make him even more overpowered. It's elementary, really.

[Seero]

21 minutes ago, QuartzBeam said:

I too believe Wolfgang shouldn't be nerfed.

Klei should just take this very strong character and give them additional perks that are simultaneously worth spending a whole update on and that do not make him even more overpowered. It's elementary, really

this guy gets it

[NoscopeFelix]

I would actually welcome a refresh, by that I don’t mean a nerf but something that makes him interesting.I personally find him very uninterested to play and him and wes are the only characters I rarely play as.

[HowlVoid]

IIHeres my idea for a rework:

Firstly some background:

Wolfgang is the strongman, stronger men there are none. He lifts impossible weights that are always met with awe, wonder and cheering from the crowds. WOLFGANG! WOLFGANG! WOLFGANG! 

But alas, the strong man... Is a coward. Behold the tiny spider! Wolfgang quakes in fear! Knees weak and stunned the mighty man is laughed at and mocked by the crowd that was cheering him only moments ago. 

Cut to the future and the team is taking on the behemoth toadstool! Try at they might toadstools fleshy skin is nigh impenetrable! All blows are easy deflected and the team is faltering! Toadstools eyes are set on the poor webber, who is a little scary to the strongman, but regardless is a friend. The mushroom monster roars and charges straight forth to the scared webber who can only close his eyes and accept his fate. Wolfgang is the closest and rushes in to defend his scary comrade but then... As wigfrids singing fills that eeri cavern... He is back in that tent long ago. In his mind webber is that spider years ago that was the cause of so much pain and humiliation. Will he falter? Will he hesitate? No! Like a wave crashing upon an immovable shore he stops the behemoth with his bare hands. His friends in awe begin to cheer for a mighty man there is none! WOLFGANG! WOLFGANG! This god of man LIFTS what appears like a world upon his shoulders  and yee- tosses the helpless amphibian with a loud crash. Toadstool kicks his stubby legs at the air to no avail. An opening has been created! Everyone, charge!

Changes: Wolfgang no longer gains strength based on his fullness but rather based on how long he has weight lifted. He does not gain increased hunger nor is greatly affected by insanity auras. Gains a new meter, a strength meter and his power is reflected by it.

Two new items:

A strongmans dumbbell- Similar to a tent it quickly drains hunger but raises his strong meter in exchange. There are varying amounts of strength- tiger strength, bear strength and gorilla strength all giving different amount of power. The power increases are all flat damage increases and not percentage based. Gorrilla giving a +30 damage increase. A workout may take a quarter of a day and provide a full days worth of power.

Weight training vest: also increases meter but 4x slower on the go. Has a speed penalty, higher hunger drain and a small attack speed penalty. He does not benefit from the meter until it is taken off. Both dumbbell and vest cannot be reworn/used until the meter has completely depleted. 

New ability, feat of strength!: in exchange for all of his meter, and only at gorilla strength, wolfgang will clash head to head with an enemy in a competition of strength. The player will go through a small but fast minigame (think guitar hero but super fast for bosses) to determine if they have what it takes. Wolfgang will hoist the enemy and toss it to momentarily stun it. If he loses he losses all of his meter and is instead stunned himself. Giving up total potential damage for burst group damage or to provide a momentary respite. All nearby enemies are also stunned. 

Bosses will have some immunity to feat of strength for a while. The dumbbell cannot be used during battle but the vest can. Small mobs like spiders will be instantly hoisted and thrown to stun small groups for some of the meter (a quarter of the meter?).

Ps. Damage increase may need adjustment and players cannot attack during feat of strength but will stead cheer wolfgang on. Mobs will also stop but this is only for bosses. I know it may seem annoying but hopefully the animation of wolfgang wrestling with something 5x his size can momentarily distract you. There will also be a cooldown and perhaps it can only be done once per boss?

Pss. Animations can be super cool and vary from boss to boss. Deerclops trying stomp on wolfgang with one of his might, eh, hooves? Bearger hand to hand trying to knock eachothe over like sumo wrestlers, etc. 

Also, the hunger needed to reach gorrilla is going to be a lot. Id say 250 hunger.

[Cheggf]

14 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Wolfgang will most likely get a curve ball rework, that is, his main perks will remain exactly the same as they are (any change will cause an outrage) and he will get entirely new perks.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

EG: I suggested a long time ago that he could start an animation (Like TF2’s high five) and when someone else accepts it, he can throw the other player at a distance causing AOE damage upon landing. The person that controls the jump and landing area is the one that is thrown.

This would allow team interactions to explore beyond water gaps or void gaps, a new type of team based attack against groups of mobs, and 0 change to his main perks. For single player use maybe he can throw befriended pigs who will accept the animation if he starts it, to attack enemies. Different characters thrown could also have different effects, like a woodie tossed near trees will cause them to break, a Wendy may cause Abigail to do a quick  extra attack around her, a Wes may bounce on a balloon pillow for a second smaller jump, etc.

 Just to mention a simple and silly example of the type of changes he could receive.

 

 

I am going to cry if Wolfgang gets reworked and he doesn't start hammer tossing Maxwells into Dragonfly.

[Mahoood]

On 1/7/2021 at 9:51 PM, Toros said:

You aren’t dumb.  You might have some weak points with english, but your english is a lot better than my fluency in your native language.

I actually have a secondary reason that I don’t care for Wolfgang’s speed boost, and it may be a better argument for you.

Kiting is generally very consistent assuming low latency for every character except Wolfgang.  He doesn’t actually have a speed boost the way canes have a speed boost, but as Wolfgang’s size changes so does his speed because the game automatically makes something faster when you increase the size.  I imagine this was done to avoid the “running on ice” look when the animation is faster than actual speed.

Wolfgang’s speed however is a linear increase from 225 to 300 hunger, which means for fights like Dragonfly with tight timing having an inconsistent speed boost is a big deal and can change the number of hits per dodge depending on current hunger.

However, I could get behind a combat only flat 25% speed boost while in mighty form, since it retains the combat relevant bonus that is important for some fights without making Wolfgang a better explorer or causing the inconsistency issue I mentioned earlier.

Milkmade hat because real wolfgang mains fight raw .

You can use garlic seasoned jelly beans if you're feeling wimpy.  

But seriously, the inconsistent speed and the attack speed bug are so annoying for a no damage dfly fight

On 1/8/2021 at 1:38 PM, ShakerGER said:

What Seero is trying to convey here seems very much come out of a place of fear. Probably because of any kind of change, of course he will get nerfed. Many times it has been mentioned, and it is incredibly apparent that he is Wilson+ (Like WX and to some extent Wicker). So to make him any kind of exciting to play there needs to be some kind of thing to work around. Something more than sanity drain or spoilage (Wicker) because you work around these things what ever character you play.

I would really to hammer home that statements like: "But noobs aren't applicable in a balance argument. As the topic varies a lot, and PART of the definition for a broken character is probably a character who makes the game WAY to easy for a new player, but there are other factors." are definitely NOT OKAY especially in a cooperative game. Any and all skill levels should be tried to be accounted for. I often say to new players "pick someone from the first row, and you will be fine!" the first few characters aren't too special or very easy to get a hold of without trivializing the game.

This also another concern. Wolfgang is the ONE CHARACTER that limits design space second to none (maybe debatable Maxwell being a distant 2nd). I am sure I am not the only one that is quite puzzled that a boss like Dragonfly which doesn't really have different player roles to fulfill like Toadstool has nearly 30k HP? Sure larvae is a thing, but they deal so incredibly high damage and health that they are best avoided.

Overall every scaredy cat that fears that Wolfgang will be nerfed into the ground doesn't really see that besides their specific niche group very little people like to play or help Wolfgang because he is very bland

If you seriously think that WX is anything more to his team but an unneeded garbage disposal unit and a late game flashlight then there is a long explanation about balance to be had with that particular person. WX will also get his piece of pie. Right now he is a worse Wolfgang or a worse Wormwood. 

Watch your tongue, poop smearer plant!

"DOES THE ORGANIC NOT KNOW HE IS FLAMMABLE?"