Wolfgang does NOT need a nerf

[Kleicher]

19 minutes ago, Duck986 said:

Imo all things that Wolf needs are lowering his sanity maximum (e.g. from 200 to 130) and buffing his sanity drain (like from 1.1x to 2x, for instance). That's all, other things are kinda fine.

 

That is funny

[.]

Wolfgang should be reworked instead of getting huge nerf.
I think Wolfgang is strongman and he should stay like that. I don't really want to Klei make him weaker in muscle power. Even making him stronger enough to carrying statue like things faster make more sense to me.
In my opinion his bad side should be buffed which would make him nerfed. He is a coward character which scare from any creature, even in trailers we see this big guy freak out from everything. The nerf should be on this side. He should scare more than he do now and being scared should be a big problem for him instead being able to save himself in few second by killing shadow monsters or spamming mushroom.
Second nerf could be his weaker form. His weaker form could be nerfed too.

And most importantly he should be MORE usefull for team. The only thing I wait from Klei is it.

[minespatch]

32 minutes ago, Slagger said:

Wolfgang should be reworked instead of getting huge nerf.

Curious over people's obsession with nerfing things. It's way more fun to work around things than make things easier.

[Gi-Go]

I tell you more. Wolfgang does NOT need a rework. 

Meaby make his transformation animations skippable but that's it. 

[.]

13 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Curious over people's obsession with nerfing things. It's way more fun to work around things than make things easier.

Exactly! It's not making sense to halfing damage or removing an ability.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

Meaby make his transformation animations skippable but that's it. 

I dont get why people want this to be removed. Controlling when you do the transition is his real downside and the only thing that makes his gameplay interesting. Basically, is calling for a buff instead of learning timing

[Gi-Go]

2 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

I dont get why people want this to be removed. Controlling when you do the transition is his real downside and the only thing that makes his gameplay interesting. Basically, is calling for a buff instead of learning 

That's not a downside that's an "oof 3 damage from spider cuz I runned out of food".

The main reason we want it removed is because Wolfgang players are speedrunners by nature. High speed with maximum efficiency. It's really unsatisfying to just waste a whole second on transformation when we could have used it on walking, and no proper timing is gonna get me my 1 second back. 

You wouldn't get it, unless you are a Wolfgang lover. 

[themightyone]

Wolf's biggest drawback is when he stops in his tracks to whine about being hungry. When a pack of insane splumonkeys is chasing you , it can be an issue. Other than that the other drawback is a fast hunger depletion. Which is why you generally want to roll as wimpy Wolf except when clearing mobs and bosses. , and especially heal in wimpy form if possible since it will cost way less.

I think a fair nerd would be maybe 150 to 175 sanity and have it drain at 1.5 instead of 1.1. Not really sure though on a rework , hopefully its good and not too nerfing.

[Mike23Ua]

11 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

That's not a downside that's an "oof 3 damage from spider cuz I runned out of food".

The main reason we want it removed is because Wolfgang players are speedrunners by nature. High speed with maximum efficiency. It's really unsatisfying to just waste a whole second on transformation when we could have used it on walking, and no proper timing is gonna get me my 1 second back. 

You wouldn't get it, unless you are a Wolfgang lover. 

Okay so remove the transformation animation between hunger stages and instead tie it to lifting his signature Dumbell- People in the real world Dont become muscle builders by just eating food.. they work out, and As seen in my above spoiler image- Wolfgang is seen INSIDE the Constant.. holding that Dumbell above his head: So where the heck is it currently in his Gameplay?

As a Wendy Main I now have to stand completely still to go through literal “ghost whispering” Animations to summon/return, soothe/rile up Abigail.. and as a Secondary WIGFRID Main I now have to engage in fights to gain inspiration before going through an animation of singing stagecraft songs.

The Dumbell suggestion for Wolfgang is far more reasonable then you guys are making it out to be based on the above already established gameplay evidence.

I want to like and even enjoy playing as Wolfgang: but for him to be a former circus performing super strongman.. his Playstyle is pretty Weak and straight forward.

Hoping the Refresh seriously makes him a lot more interesting & appealing to play. 

[ShadowDuelist]

36 minutes ago, themightyone said:

I think a fair nerd would be maybe 150 to 175 sanity and have it drain at 1.5 instead of 1.1

Shadow creatures are incredibly annoying ever since the unloading shadows glitch got fixed. Making him more annoying to stay as, will make him an even more “pick and swap” character for boss fights.

Wolfgang is quite unpopular due to how boring he is, despite all the videos, guides, streamers and speed runs there are using him he remains one of the least popular characters. 
 

I don’t think his perks should be nerfed and I don’t think Warly’s dishes should be nerfed, not even when used on Wolfgang specifically. If anything his rework could add a new mechanic so it’s more fun to remain as Wolfgang outside of battles, and maybe a new con, both entirely unrelated to being stronger and faster, IMHO.

[Gi-Go]

48 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Okay so remove the transformation animation between hunger stages and instead tie it to lifting his signature Dumbell- People in the real world Dont become muscle builders by just eating food.. they work out, and As seen in my above spoiler image- Wolfgang is seen INSIDE the Constant.. holding that Dumbell above his head: So where the heck is it currently in his Gameplay?

As a Wendy Main I now have to stand completely still to go through literal “ghost whispering” Animations to summon/return, soothe/rile up Abigail.. and as a Secondary WIGFRID Main I now have to engage in fights to gain inspiration before going through an animation of singing stagecraft songs.

The Dumbell suggestion for Wolfgang is far more reasonable then you guys are making it out to be based on the above already established gameplay evidence.

I want to like and even enjoy playing as Wolfgang: but for him to be a former circus performing super strongman.. his Playstyle is pretty Weak and straight forward.

Hoping the Refresh seriously makes him a lot more interesting & appealing to play. 

Wolfgang is already fun and interesting for people who play him. And this is exactly why he doesn't need a nerf/rework (and any rework suggestion you guys make are just nedless ways to slow him down - aka nerfs).

If you don't like straight forward playstyle then don't play Wolfgang. Simple as that. 

[Yuma Arcl]

6 hours ago, Duck986 said:

 

And what if his forms were based on his sanity instead? Wolf is strong in brute force, but weak in mind.

They'd just need to adapt the sanity cap and drain.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

That's not a downside that's an "oof 3 damage from spider cuz I runned out of food".

The main reason we want it removed is because Wolfgang players are speedrunners by nature. High speed with maximum efficiency. It's really unsatisfying to just waste a whole second on transformation when we could have used it on walking, and no proper timing is gonna get me my 1 second back. 

You wouldn't get it, unless you are a Wolfgang lover. 

I played wolfgang a lot when i was learning to beat bosses (for how easy he makes it) and his transformation frames where the only interesting thing that he has

Just keep him mighty or deal with that second long animation but being speedrunner to want this buff has no sense

[Gi-Go]

6 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

I played wolfgang a lot when i was learning to beat bosses (for how easy he makes it) and his transformation frames where the only interesting thing that he has

Just keep him mighty or deal with that second long animation but being speedrunner to want this buff has no sense

You really shouldn't discuss character you don't play as. Especially if you can't seem to understand what minor annoyance is. 

Also, transformation frames are your favorite part? I'm honestly struggling to imagen how and why you play dst. 

If you find Wolfgang to be boring then Wolfgang isn't your issue. Bosses are. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

You really shouldn't discuss character you don't play as. Especially if you can't seem to understand what minor annoyance is. 

I dont play him because his only deep mechanic is to time his transformation forms, he is so boring and i dont feel im surviving with 300 hp, speed bost, oneshoting enemies and having 0 problems with sanity 

I played enough to talk about him, i kill every boss as him and survive for so long until i just feel boring because is so hard to die as him

Is so flat and i hope klei will add fun deep mechanic to him if they plan to keep his nonsense stats

[Seero]

This is what I like to see, this thread may not have been a huge waste of time after all

The whole point was to convince people to leave his damage/speed/health unnerfed and then work from there

11 hours ago, Yuma Arcl said:

Wolf doesn't need a team. When he has a team, they'd better be supports. That means: they can as well play without him and he can play solo. While there's no fighting, he brings nothing good; he only takes away (the food)

He'll always be the "want an easy experience? Want to make your teammates useless in fights, leaving them no choice but to do the hard work for you? Pick me!"

This is a huge exaggeration to the point where I didn't feel like I should respond, but I haven't explained why he's such a good character too much

while the supposed focus of the game is to not starve, fighting enemies is still a very large part of the game (very clearly more then 1%). As you can apply this logic to Wigfrid and look how much of a good character she is. She is a bard who can support her teammates in battles, but doesn't do as much damage

When she's not fighting, she brings nothing good, he only takes away food, and if you want to assume this stance, you need to accept that some sort of scarcity exists with food, as most players who demand a rework or nerf  will say that food is easy to get.

This is absolutely not the case, as Wolfgang has a 25% speedboost when mighty, allowing him to explore quicker, and since Wolfgang is a player you can control by walking, mining, chopping, picking, etc. Or just fighting non-boss mobs. He can do pretty much everything a Wilson can at the very least and at that point he brings massive amounts of good depending on what you do.

I spoke to @Misuto in his stream once a long time ago about team composition, while mine looked like no duplicate characters for 6 players (something like wicker wolf warly maxwell wormwood wortox this was prior to RWYS) His preferred composition was three unique characters and three Wolfgangs

Misuto I would love to hear more about this. Can you elaborate here?

 

On a side note here is a new question: For those who want Wolfgang reworked, what would you add to him other then no speed penalty for statues/crops/boulders? 

[Gi-Go]

8 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

I dont play him because his only deep mechanic is to time his transformation forms, he is so boring and i dont feel im surviving with 300 hp, speed bost, oneshoting enemies and having 0 problems with sanity 

I played enough to talk about him, i kill every boss as him and survive for so long until i just feel boring because is so hard to die as him

Is so flat and i hope klei will add fun deep mechanic to him if they plan to keep his nonsense stats

Okay first of all, how is that a deep mechanic? What even is a deep mechanic? Name me character with fun and deep mechanic for reference. 

Second of all, Wolfgang boss fights are the most fun boss fights. Fighting bosses as any other character requires more preparations, and because of the high hp of dst bosses, - these fights become drawn out.

As for getting bored because you aren't dying... I guess that's fair. If you are good enough at the game to not struggle as wolf, but not good enough to also effortlessly survive as Wes then Wolfgang does seem a little dull. 

Any pro will tell you tho that once you become good enough at the game, all challanges turn into annoyances. Thus Wolfgang is the least annoying and most fun character for veterans. 

My conclusion is simply don't play Wolfgang. Use woodie, as a bizarre discount version with more "interesting" perks.

 

[DVGMedia]

7 hours ago, Duck986 said:

Imo all things that Wolf needs are lowering his sanity maximum (e.g. from 200 to 130) and buffing his sanity drain (like from 1.1x to 2x, for instance). That's all, other things are kinda fine.

That's honestly  a buff for most good players less of a threshold  to fight nightmares. Since  having a faster drain or lower sanity just makes it simpler to farm fuel  considering he can three shot or four shot nightmares

I would say a more substantial change would be to make him unable to fight nightmares. And a spawn modifier  when he is insane which spawns  an extra nightmare  since each player can only have 2 nightmares spawned on them  so that way sanity actually has an effect on him, and with the recent changes to have nightmares not despawn when unloaded so sanity management  would actually be a thing you would have to do with Wolfgang.  

Also if we go with a smaller max sanity I would think to make it as small or even smaller than webber since sanity  effects  occur  at percents  15% for insane  40% to see monsters and beard creatures  80 % for shadow hands.

. Ps I also find it funny how my original post got no attention so here is something more argumentative 

[Seero]

5 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

As for getting bored because you aren't dying... I guess that's fair. If you are good enough at the game to not struggle as wolf, but not good enough to also effortlessly survive as Wes then Wolfgang does seem a little dull. 

as for people who think he is boring and associates him with "minmaxers" there is nothing wrong with min-maxing and a character more suited for that is good for the game, as you make those types of players happy, while keeping all other characters for other types of players.

This is not necessarily true however, because a lot of characters have good minimaxing strats, more recently Wendy is now a really really good character that can take care of shadow splumonkeys very easily, this means you get a lot of nightmare fuel without needing to go insane, which saves a lot of time and removes the absolute most dangerous part of the ruins. Even warly who is suited to more late game/teamwork has his glowberry moose, which alone allows him to rush the ruins without science which is really good. Wortox can teleport and heal instantly, making boss prep less apparent if you plan on kiting or tanking with really high damage protection

1 minute ago, EsaiXD said:

I would say a more substantial change would be to make him unable to fight nightmares. And a spawn modifier  when he is insane which spawns  an extra nightmare  since each player can only have 2 nightmares spawned on them  so that way sanity actually has an effect on him, and with the recent changes to have nightmares not despawn when unloaded so sanity management  would actually be a thing you would have to do with Wolfgang.  

 

Sorry for my bluntness but this is absolutely the worst mechanic suggested so far, I was already expecting something like this to happen when people kept talking about his myriad of phobias. This destroys him in solo play, which is part of what makes him really good, and not only do I think characters should be more independent while still helping there team (like WX) characters who lean more beneficial towards solo play (like Wolfgang, Woodie Wicker Wendy) should still exist because playing on your own is an extremely legitimate way of playing and should not be neglected in favor of extreme teamplay.

This makes Wolfgang extremely reliant on other players, and unable to defend himself when he goes insane. Not going insane is not a good defense for this mechanic, because there is a lot of merit in going insane in the first place whenever you like going insane or not, and this would be a HUGE nerf to Wolfgang, something he does not need, judging by the title of this post.

It's a very fun idea that characters should have perks after there personality traits, the concept of favorite foods is really nice too but it should not be taken this far.

[DVGMedia]

46 minutes ago, Seero said:

Sorry for my bluntness but this is absolutely the worst mechanic suggested so far, I was already expecting something like this to happen when people kept talking about his myriad of phobias. This destroys him in solo play, which is part of what makes him really good, and not only do I think characters should be more independent while still helping there team (like WX) characters who lean more beneficial towards solo play (like Wolfgang, Woodie Wicker Wendy) should still exist because playing on your own is an extremely legitimate way of playing and should not be neglected in favor of extreme teamplay.

This makes Wolfgang extremely reliant on other players, and unable to defend himself when he goes insane. Not going insane is not a good defense for this mechanic, because there is a lot of merit in going insane in the first place whenever you like going insane or not, and this would be a HUGE nerf to Wolfgang, something he does not need, judging by the title of this post.

It's a very fun idea that characters should have perks after there personality traits, the concept of favorite foods is really nice too but it should not be taken this far.

I mean if you think about it what most scaredy cats do is that they either run away or they close their eyes and just swing at whatever is scaring them it's all depending on what klei would like to do with the phobia aspect of Wolfgang since what they did initially really is not substantial.

You say that this is a thing that you don't want because it's a thing that he can't avoid but look at how many characters already have something like this and yet it's a main part of their character. Warley can't eat anything that's not a crock pot food and he can't eat the same foods without waiting.

Wurt wortox and Webber cannot even interact with pigs to have them chop trees or get help at least without the one man band. Something that every character can do. 

Walter goes insane by getting hit 

 woodwyrm can only heal with fertilizer or healing items 

And Wigfrid can only eat meat.  

Surely. Just one aspect of the game not being able to interact with is not a problem for Wolfgang to have since many good and highly played characters (wigfrid) have a downside like that 

You really need to open your mind up and see there may be more possibilities  in store for wolf 

Rather than seeing oh something negative  let's argue 

 

 

 

 

[Seero]

2 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

You say that this is a thing that you don't want because it's a thing that he can't avoid but look at how many characters already have something like this and yet it's a main part of their character. Warley can't eat anything that's not a crock pot food and he can't eat the same foods without waiting.

Wurt wortox and Webber cannot even interact with pigs to have them chop trees or get help at least without the one man band. Something that every character can do. 

Walter goes insane by getting hit 

 woodwyrm can only heal with fertilizer or healing items 

And Wigfrid can only eat meat.  

all vastly less worse then not being able to fight shadow creatures

[DVGMedia]

30 minutes ago, Seero said:

all vastly less worse then not being able to fight shadow creatures

Really? Alot of those things are way more detrimental  than not being  able to fight one enemy type and only terror beaks and horrors  and thier nightmare versions   you can still fight chess pieces   basically everything that Abigail can hit

Edit a true hard downside would be to not be able to fight at all  while insane  couple this with a higher sanity loss or even a higher percentage to go insane  then that is actually  a downside  which can only be remedied  by proper stat management  which is basically  the gameplay of Wolfgang. Can go a woodwyrm  way too where you don't gain sanity from food.

But that is way too hard  with his stats now  

  some of these characters loose out on literally half of the game for Thier perks 

It just kind of goes to show where the mindset is 

[Monkey Cups]

1 hour ago, Seero said:

Wolfgang has a 25% speedboost when mighty

Wolfgang's speed boost was always the most baffling part of his perks. He's supposed to be a strongman, not an olympic sprinter. A physique like Wolfgang's actually makes a person slower on average.

[Gi-Go]

9 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

Really? Alot of those things are way more detrimental  than not being  able to fight one enemy type and only terror beaks and horrors  and thier nightmare versions   you can still fight chess pieces   basically everything that Abigail can hit

  some of these characters loose out on literally half of the game for Thier perks 

It just kind of goes to show where the mindset is 

I liked the sound of your idea, but it's not gonna be good edition to the game. 

You suggest to lock Wolfgang players access to nightmare fuel, and also force them to stay sane at all times. 

And all of that just for the sake of "well, Wolfgang has phobias according to his bio".

Perks should have more gameplay thoughts and less "logic" 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

Okay first of all, how is that a deep mechanic? What even is a deep mechanic? Name me character with fun and deep mechanic for reference.

a mechanic that needs of the player knowledge and brings many strats to the table not just "eat meat stew and press F", wolfg is as flat as wilson. Atleast having transformation frames makes the player think when he wants to change form

willow fire resistance makes her able to be inside of a fire to deal crowd control to enemies, burn enemies to increase the dps without worry about being damaged, controlling her sanity allows you to use a body ward

wendy can use abi to deal a lot of damage but she needs to take control of how much damage is getting abi and the elixires add more variety of strats

balloomancy of wes can work as baits and stunlock enemies

woodie can turn into weremoose having good stats but not being able to heal

wigfrid was as flat as wolfg but atleast now she has songs to play arround like, with good timing, being able to control aggro of the enemies or scaring them

warly can deal more damage than wolfg but cant spam blue mushroom or pierogies making the player think before fight

and there is more

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

Second of all, Wolfgang boss fights are the most fun boss fights. Fighting bosses as any other character requires more preparations, and because of the high hp of dst bosses, - these fights become drawn out.

this is purely your opinion, mine is that those fights are boring and that doesnt mean that any of us are right. 

 

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

As for getting bored because you aren't dying... I guess that's fair. If you are good enough at the game to not struggle as wolf, but not good enough to also effortlessly survive as Wes then Wolfgang does seem a little dull.

the problem with wes is that, outside of the niche uses of ballonmancy, he is as flat as wolfg

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

Any pro will tell you tho that once you become good enough at the game, all challanges turn into annoyances. Thus Wolfgang is the least annoying and most fun character for veterans. 

My conclusion is simply don't play Wolfgang. Use woodie, as a bizarre discount version with more "interesting" perks.

 

and for these in many other threads i said that i dont think he needs a nerf, after all this is a sandbox and playing wolfg isnt like having godmode enable but he could have funnier perks not only eating and destroying