Wolfgang does NOT need a nerf

[Seero]

16 minutes ago, Monkey Cups said:

Wolfgang's speed boost was always the most baffling part of his perks. He's supposed to be a strongman, not an olympic sprinter. A physique like Wolfgang's actually makes a person slower on average.

since endurance cannot be emulated, and accuracy to reality is not a requirement, this is the best possible way to represent a strong person's endurance, in fact making him faster should satisfy a lot of players because it would make him more interesting in terms of what can he do to the team

and since speed boosts are really important (especially when it's not something as restricting as weregoose) this point easily stands.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, Seero said:

since endurance cannot be emulated, and accuracy to reality is not a requirement, this is the best possible way to represent a strong person's endurance, in fact making him faster should satisfy a lot of players because it would make him more interesting in terms of what can he do to the team

and since speed boosts are really important (especially when it's not something as restricting as weregoose) this point easily stands.

his speed boost isnt even intended, he is bigger so he walk faster

having 300 hp and being able to kite easily for just few food doesnt sound right

[DVGMedia]

29 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

I liked the sound of your idea, but it's not gonna be good edition to the game. 

You suggest to lock Wolfgang players access to nightmare fuel, and also force them to stay sane at all times. 

And all of that just for the sake of "well, Wolfgang has phobias according to his bio".

Perks should have more gameplay thoughts and less "logic" 

He has access to nightmare  fuel   just not the easiest way to get it 

He can get nightmare fuel from digging graves killing beardlings  killing shadow monkeys  

Like I said even characters  that aren't supposed to  interact with things like webber and pigs  have a round about way of avoiding it  with the one man band.

I remember you can also explode nightmares  so if you really want nightmare fuel from sanity monsters that is also an option 

[Seero]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

his speed boost isnt even intended, he is bigger so he walk faster

having 300 hp and being able to kite easily for just few food doesnt sound right

"doesn't sound right" is barely a sufficient argument you can fetch stats from here and there and make any character seem op, "oh wx78 can have 400 health!" but that's basically all he has without wicker. you can "kite easily" with or without walking cane speeds, and I'm sure it's absolutely intended since who else implemented the size changing mechanic other then klei? It's definitely not a bug

do you think he needs a nerf or not?

3 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

He has access to nightmare  fuel   just not the easiest way to get it 

all other methods are just not worth it

[viberr]

im not gonna say much because i don't like the look of this thread 

buuuuuttttttttttttt

3 minutes ago, Seero said:

all other methods are just not worth it

splumonkeys are worth it when it comes to nightmare fuel

[DVGMedia]

3 minutes ago, Seero said:

"doesn't sound right" is barely a sufficient argument you can fetch stats from here and there and make any character seem op, "oh wx78 can have 400 health!" but that's basically all he has without wicker. you can "kite easily" with or without walking cane speeds, and I'm sure it's absolutely intended 

all other methods are just not worth it

Man I love your arguments  being just I don't want that  or its not worth doing.  When literally other characters have to deal with that.  But that is Playstyle talk which can lead to emotions and pointless argument.

WX can charge himself but you would say it's not worth doing 

But it is a thing that exists 

These are all aspects of the game that you need to keep in mind

[Seero]

1 minute ago, EsaiXD said:

Man I love your arguments  being just I don't want that  or its not worth doing.  When literally other characters have to deal with that.  But that is Playstyle talk which can lead to emotions and pointless argument.

WX can charge himself but you would say it's not worth doing 

But it is a thing that exists 

These are all aspects of the game that you need to keep in mind

the whole point is that, if it's not worth doing, it's not unbalanced or op or it's not a sufficient alternative

[ArubaroBeefalo]

11 minutes ago, Seero said:

"doesn't sound right" is barely a sufficient argument you can fetch stats from here and there and make any character seem op, "oh wx78 can have 400 health!" but that's basically all he has without wicker. you can "kite easily" with or without walking cane speeds, and I'm sure it's absolutely intended since who else implemented the size changing mechanic other then klei? It's definitely not a bug

do you think he needs a nerf or not?

sure, try to kite a huge hound wave, 2nd phase klaus, shadow rook, bishops, etc without speed. Also, less speed=less dps since you need to go back earlier

having 400 hp removes the survival aspect

i dont think my opinion matter if he needs or not a nerf. I wish he was less op but have funnier perks but i have other characters to play if that never comes. I told you many times what i think about wolfg

[Seero]

Just now, ArubaroBeefalo said:

sure, try to kite a huge hound wave, 2nd phase klaus, shadow rook, bishops, etc without speed. Also, less speed=less dps since you need to go back earlier

 

if its that big of a deal use cobble stones but by that time you should have a walking cane or yellow amulet, and it's no big deal.

[DVGMedia]

2 minutes ago, Seero said:

if its that big of a deal use cobble stones but by that time you should have a walking cane or yellow amulet, and it's no big deal.

That's a bad way to look at things.  Whenever so etching happens you should always take the worst case scenario into account.  You should never just say oh  well  you should have this at this point. 

[Seero]

15 minutes ago, EsaiXD said:

That's a bad way to look at things.  Whenever so etching happens you should always take the worst case scenario into account.  You should never just say oh  well  you should have this at this point. 

So you are saying Wolfgang is OP for new players? because that's where the worst case scenarios happen.

This is where his hunger becomes an actual downside. In the worst case scenario, you starve because you couldn't keep up his hunger.

[DVGMedia]

1 minute ago, Seero said:

So you are saying Wolfgang is OP for new players? because that's where the worst case scenarios happen.

This is where his hunger becomes an actual downside. In the worst case scenario, you starve because you couldn't keep up his hunger.

No because it's like an inverse relation Wolfgang is ment to teach players how to manage stats    you don't always want to have full hunger with Wolfgang because 300%Hunger loss is bad early game. But the hunger drain scales with wolf's belly.  This teaches new players to conserve food because new players don't know the melody of ways to gather food. 

As you know experienced players never have problems with that because they know how to maximize  thier benefits  

Don't starve has always been about subtle  teachings.

And with Wolfgang being the stat management  character it's already easy to set his  upsides and downsides based on his stats 

Want to conserve food stay wimpy. But suffer speed and damage penalties   want to have normal modifiers be medium but have  increased hunger drain.

And mighty is even more hunger drain for more stats at that moment.

I think Wolfgang is great for new players because he teaches them how to find food more easily but also encourage them to be  mindful of thier consumption and also gives them a way to experience sanity creatures  in a more confident manner  since the player can boost  thier stats 

But as we all know food is really easy to get and that sanity is a joke so for a veteran player Wolfgang is considered to be  extremely strong  because  the gaining of gameplay knowledge is what makes him overpowering  compared to  his downsides.

This is why Wolfgang in most of the communities eyes needs at least a change maybe not nerfs or buffs but something to make him more fun to play 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

26 minutes ago, Seero said:

So you are saying Wolfgang is OP for new players? because that's where the worst case scenarios happen.

This is where his hunger becomes an actual downside. In the worst case scenario, you starve because you couldn't keep up his hunger.

There is a gradual scale of how noob is a player but that is something i told you in other thread and you totally ignore half of the words to be right 

 

This thread is pointless

[Yuma Arcl]

2 hours ago, Seero said:

This is a huge exaggeration to the point where I didn't feel like I should respond, but I haven't explained why he's such a good character too much

while the supposed focus of the game is to not starve, fighting enemies is still a very large part of the game (very clearly more then 1%). As you can apply this logic to Wigfrid and look how much of a good character she is. She is a bard who can support her teammates in battles, but doesn't do as much damage

When she's not fighting, she brings nothing good, he only takes away food, and if you want to assume this stance, you need to accept that some sort of scarcity exists with food, as most players who demand a rework or nerf  will say that food is easy to get.

1 - Nope, it's only the truth. Not exaggeration.

2 - Wigfrid does bring good stuff. Aside from helmets and spears to the team, she helps teamates in fights with her battle songs, something Wolf does not,

3 - Wigfrid only needs ~1 meatball each day, while Wolf must keep eating to keep his hunger up to a cap, so no, she's not a "take away food" character. Wolf is.

4 - Many other arguments people already wrote and I just won't copy/paste. He surely needs a mini-rework / rebalance; something to make him more of a Don't Starve Together character. He's still better as solo OR him + butlers bringing him food.

[Mike23Ua]

Considering how much Wendy, Willow, Woodie, Winona & arguably even my least favorite refresh Wigfrid was changed- I would say that it is FAIR to expect huge changes to the remaining Seven Characters who have yet to be reworked.

(13 if we can count the 6 characters from Solo DS that aren’t in the game yet)

Yes- this means that Wolfgang, Wes, Wickerbottom, WX78, Webber, Maxwell & even Wilson are subject to huge changes.

I can say this because no one except Klei could’ve predicted that Willow would gain a Teddy Bear that helps deal with her biggest downside (being cold & being more insane when cold) An object that can be cuddled for extra Warmth and grows to protect from insanity threats.

No one except Klei could have accurately told you that Woodie would have his chop too much Wood with Lucy & suffer being transformed into a Were-Beaver downside completely removed from the game in favor of now being able to craft totems and CONTROL when you transform in addition to having two brand new Were-Forms.

No one outside of Klei could have told you that Wendy’s largest downsides (hitting weaker than average, having dumb Abigail Suicide into dangerous areas and drop her flower in her dangerous death location) could have EVER told you that Abigail would provide Wendy with a damage buff and that flower that I used to die a lot trying to retrieve when Abigail did something stupid would now NEVER leave my Inventory..

And even Wigfrids downside of only eating Meat has been made less difficult by the introduction of new Meat Sources, and being able to use Batilisks wings in Crockpots now.

I think you can clearly see my point here: Downsides in DST are becoming significantly less of a Downside with each and every character rework- as proven by the facts above.. so to say that Wolfgang or Wes won’t see significant changes is just plain being dumb towards what Klei has ALREADY done with their reworks.

Personally from the above examples: I could see Wilson gaining useful perks instead of just being boring basic character with nothing interesting about him, I can see Wolfgang’s only downside of transforming to weaker forms being removed COMPLETELY from the game (meaning no more puny form Wolfgang) and I can even see Wes gaining actual useful perks that benefit a team & make playing him more unique.

Buffs & Nerfs in the end are just words- what matters the most is making the characters more FUN TO PLAY and: For Klei to create them in the way they envision that their Klei Official created characters should play/react/behave.. etc.

[Mysterious box]

If I'm  being real I have to agree Wolfgang doesn't need a nerf  to his perks but a downside that matters would likely ease people about his perks I feel like a interesting one would be to limit his eatting by that I mean giving him a stuffed state from over eatting that would give him a movement and defense penalty it would only trigger when he eats with max hunger which would slow his food healing also when he reaches max hunger he could 1 to 2 min window where his hunger doesn't drain but after he would lose hunger based on that time frame.

[Toros]

This is a mess of a thread filled with a lot of unsupported opinions from people who assume there’s any reason to take them seriously, and this one particularly annoyed me:

“Wolfgang’s body type would make him slower.”

When I see that I know the person who said it, and anyone who agrees with it, is ignorant of both the sort of physiques Wolfgang is modeled after (pre-steroid strongmen) and anything related to fitness.

Wolfgang would absolutely be the fastest sprinter of the survivors, because most of them do not exercise and speed is directly related to strength.

The “more muscle = slower” trope is pure anime nonsense.  The reason I’m not a fan of Wolf’s speed boost is because it is unnecessary and makes him up to 25% more efficient in all tasks.  Given that 1.1x sanity drain is trivial and you eventually passively produce arbitrary amounts of food, his downsides are grossly insufficent to begin to counteract his perks.

Also, OP is wrong, because Wolfgang is already mechanically one of the strongest characters in the game (which is why he dominates every speedrun) and he needs to get nerfed because right now his entire kit is boring stat increases.  

He’s powerful and boring, and the only way to refresh him in an interesting way with a fun downside is going to be nerfing stats (I lean towards nerfing max hp while mighty, sanity drain, max sanity, speed boost) and adding interesting perks.  Strength is broadly useful in a survival situation and there are a ton of things that higher raw strength would he helpful for.

Carrying heavy items, counteracting slowdown from items, improved rowing, improved tool use, stronger grip, are all useful things that could be added to change Wolfgang’s playstyle and strategies.

Right now, Wolfgang with few exceptions plays like every other character but you produce more food and fights are easier.  There’s no difference in what items or strategies you use.

I love Wolfgang’s personality and theme but haven’t played the vanilla version for years.  Too easy, too overpowered, too dull with gameplay and had coded a rework.

Hopefully Klei agrees with me, and not with you.

[viberr]

13 minutes ago, Toros said:

Hopefully Klei agrees with me, and not with you.

very direct and honestly a bit rude 

klei agrees with everybody so saying something like that is just mean 

doesn't mean i don't agree with you(because i do)i just think you can be a bit nicer you know?kindness makes the world a better place

[W0l0l0]

22 minutes ago, Toros said:

This is a mess of a thread filled with a lot of unsupported opinions from people who assume there’s any reason to take them seriously, and this one particularly annoyed me:

Yeah I avoided this thread for that reason. But I pretty much entirely agree with you.

22 minutes ago, Toros said:

Wolfgang would absolutely be the fastest sprinter of the survivors, because most of them do not exercise and speed is directly related to strength.

But isn't Wolfgang more focused in his arms? I'm genuinely curious about the effects of upper body muscles in the context of running, I'm guessing you can use their inertia to help with pacing or something, but that's a total guess and it may be slightly off topic.

7 minutes ago, stranger again said:

doesn't mean i don't agree with you(because i do)i just think you can be a bit nicer you know?kindness makes the

I like your comments. To quote somebody wise, "YOU IS GOOD". 

[viberr]

4 minutes ago, W0l0l0 said:

I like your comments. To quote to pigs, "YOU IS GOOD". 

thank you

[Seero]

42 minutes ago, Toros said:

Also, OP is wrong, because Wolfgang is already mechanically one of the strongest characters in the game (which is why he dominates every speedrun) and he needs to get nerfed because right now his entire kit is boring stat increases.  

He’s powerful and boring, and the only way to refresh him in an interesting way with a fun downside is going to be nerfing stats (I lean towards nerfing max hp while mighty, sanity drain, max sanity, speed boost) and adding interesting perks.  Strength is broadly useful in a survival situation and there are a ton of things that higher raw strength would he helpful for.

He is the perfect solo character when it comes to fighting, since this is a multiplayer game that you can play singleplayer, having a character like Wolfgang keeps the character roster diverse.

He's fun but not for everyone, (Especially for those who've played him for years) there are other really good solo characters, like Wendy and Maxwell.

I'm not right or wrong (because you can't really be right or wrong about this) when it comes to who's the strongest or what stat increases are fun in boring, when it comes to boring stat increases WX78 is the biggest culprit, but because Wolfgang has speed and damage, I prefer Wx to be reworked instead. But I am right that he doesn't need a nerf in damage speed and health.

Him being able to chop and mine at twice the speed while mighty would be nice, no speed penalty for statues (which we've already covered) and a nerf to max sanity would be cool, but anything more destroys what makes Wolfgang a solid solo character (and teamplayer too) in the first place

remember that a lot of enemies in DST have increased health, so Wolfgang really helps combat this by making longer fights half as long, and that can be fun for a lot of people.

it really sounds like you are really sick of playing Wolfgang, and that's ok, Warly and Wendy are now really good so if you like combat, you should try them

 

 

27 minutes ago, stranger again said:

very direct and honestly a bit rude 

klei agrees with everybody so saying something like that is just mean 

What? how can you agree with everything that's impossibly contradictory

someone wants to make logsuits have less durability, someone wants more durability for logsuits - how can klei agree with both? Compromising doesn't count.

Also it wasn't rude just incredibly unnecessary. What's actually rude that people like you are dragging this thread through the dirt with these off-topic comments, and that's what's going to get this thread locked.

[viberr]

2 minutes ago, Seero said:

What? how can you agree with everything that's impossibly contradictory

someone wants to make logsuits have less durability, someone wants more durability for logsuits - how can klei agree with both? Compromising doesn't count.

Also it wasn't rude just incredibly unnecessary. What's actually rude that people like you are dragging this thread through the dirt with these off-topic comments, and that's what's going to get this thread locked.

jeez man take a chill pill

i meant klei agrees with everyone because they take everyones feedback and opinions 

also how am i being rude when i literally agreed with the guy thus giving my opinion thus making my comment on topic?

you really need to just take a chill pill.they're good for you

[Toros]

44 minutes ago, stranger again said:

very direct and honestly a bit rude 

klei agrees with everybody so saying something like that is just mean 

doesn't mean i don't agree with you(because i do)i just think you can be a bit nicer you know?kindness makes the world a better place

You seem like a kind person but you also say things that make no logical sense and I don’t really no what to do with an obviously false statement like “Klei agrees with everyone” which can’t possibly be true.

16 minutes ago, Seero said:

He is the perfect solo character when it comes to fighting, since this is a multiplayer game that you can play singleplayer, having a character like Wolfgang keeps the character roster diverse.

He's fun but not for everyone, (Especially for those who've played him for years) there are other really good solo characters, like Wendy and Maxwell.

I'm not right or wrong (because you can't really be right or wrong about this) when it comes to who's the strongest or what stat increases are fun in boring, when it comes to boring stat increases WX78 is the biggest culprit, but because Wolfgang has speed and damage, I prefer Wx to be reworked instead. But I am right that he doesn't need a nerf in damage speed and health.

Him being able to chop and mine at twice the speed while mighty would be nice, no speed penalty for statues (which we've already covered) and a nerf to max sanity would be cool, but anything more destroys what makes Wolfgang a solid solo character (and teamplayer too) in the first place

remember that a lot of enemies in DST have increased health, so Wolfgang really helps combat this by making longer fights half as long, and that can be fun for a lot of people.

it really sounds like you are really sick of playing Wolfgang, and that's ok, Warly and Wendy are now really good so if you like combat, you should try them

 

 

What? how can you agree with everything that's impossibly contradictory

someone wants to make logsuits have less durability, someone wants more durability for logsuits - how can klei agree with both? Compromising doesn't count.

Also it wasn't rude just incredibly unnecessary. What's actually rude that people like you are dragging this thread through the dirt with these off-topic comments, and that's what's going to get this thread locked.

I absolutely agree with you that his damage shouldn’t be touched because that is really the core of why people pick Wolfgang.

The problem with speed though is when you can sustain mighty form (which a skilled player can for Wolfgang from day 1) then he also becomes one of the best explorers purely based off the speed boost.

I also don’t personally think he should get double chopping/mining speed because both those attributes really encroach on other character strengths.  The less niche overlap we have design-wise, the easier it is to have every character have somewhere they shine.

If Wolfgang had double chopping and mining value while mighty, Warly could use honey spice to make that 4x speed and potentially eclipse Max and Woodie in gathering speed.

We still might disagree, but I hope you can see the logic for why I rather focus on unique abilities vs character advantages overlapping.

11 minutes ago, stranger again said:

jeez man take a chill pill

i meant klei agrees with everyone because they take everyones feedback and opinions 

also how am i being rude when i literally agreed with the guy thus giving my opinion thus making my comment on topic?

you really need to just take a chill pill.they're good for you

Like I said, “Klei listening to feedback and opinions” is not equivalent to “Klei agrees with everyone”.

I appreciate what you’re trying to say, but the mode of delivery is going to make people who think logically and are precise with their language frustrated.  Because what you said was objectively false.

[viberr]

6 minutes ago, Toros said:

Like I said, “Klei listening to feedback and opinions” is not equivalent to “Klei agrees with everyone”.

I appreciate what you’re trying to say, but the mode of delivery is going to make people who think logically and are precise with their language frustrated.  Because what you said was objectively false.

yeh im not the best at english

im pretty good at english but i wasn't born with the english language so im kinda dumb,sorry

anyways on topic wolfgang nerf is a yes from me 

[Seero]

1 minute ago, Toros said:

The problem with speed though is when you can sustain mighty form (which a skilled player can for Wolfgang from day 1) then he also becomes one of the best explorers purely based off the speed boost.

 

we are almost on the same page except for this, I want to use the magil as a proper counter super badly, but it's just not working out. I really really like speed boosts in this game even though I don't play Wolfgang often

 

3 minutes ago, Toros said:

If Wolfgang had double chopping and mining value while mighty, Warly could use honey spice to make that 4x speed and potentially eclipse Max and Woodie in gathering speed.

 

OH GOD PLEASE NO

KLEI DONT ECLIPSE MY FAVORITE CHARACTER

4 minutes ago, Toros said:

If Wolfgang had double chopping and mining value while mighty, Warly could use honey spice to make that 4x speed and potentially eclipse Max and Woodie in gathering speed.

 

this is precisely why Wolfgang's role as a strong solo character is what makes him so great

Thank you for sharing your opinion, it doesn't matter if we disagree I think this is one of the best replies i've gotten so far