[Game Update] - 443554

[MondayNight]

24 minutes ago, Bird Up said:

The new nutrient system makes you have to be a mathematician to get these combos right since you can only pair 3 now. Honestly, I couldn't farm without a cheat sheet.

I hope in the end this new plot-farming system will be sufficiently intuitive and easy for bulk player-base to use at a superficial level, providing enough efficiency to feed them at a better rate than old plot farms - without requiring a side-by-side Wiki dive when playing. Because is clear the aim of superior efficiency seems to be geared towards advanced players (debatable), ones willing to invest the time and knowledge required to make it work well (for giant crops). Else all this remade farming mechanic will be "Taming Beefs 2.0, but with more twists" - aka a marginal negligible niche activity in general. More so as is far easier to go for Bull Kelp Stalks, Stone Fruit Bushes, and Lureplants; not to mention transplanting Berry Bushes and/or Juicy Berry Bushes is a lot more viable now, via this update, because diseases are no more.

Edited December 3, 2020 by x0-VERSUS-1y
*typo*

[landromat]

1 minute ago, DaZoul said:

be dividable by 4

8 is a thing

[DaZoul]

3 minutes ago, landromat said:

8 is a thing

Wow. I know. That doesn't exactly matter, unless I'm missing something obvious, like I do from time to time

Edited December 3, 2020 by DaZoul

[landromat]

8 minutes ago, DaZoul said:

Wow. I know. That doesn't exactly matter, unless I'm missing something obvious, like I do from time to time

You can make combos with 8 plants on a tile, right?

[DaZoul]

Just now, landromat said:

You can make combos with 8 plants on a tile, right?

Case Closed. I was missing something obvious, like I do from time to time.

Spoiler

thanks

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

what is the minimum of plants of the same specie? is it 3? because i was making combos for wurt but seems like i need 4 different crops to achieve the nutrients equilibrium and i dont know if is possible with that many

[DaZoul]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

what is the minimum of plants of the same specie? is it 3? because i was making combos for wurt but seems like i need 4 different crops to achieve the nutrients equilibrium and i dont know if is possible with that many

yeah I think there needs to be 3 other plants of the same type nearby, which does mean you need 4 of the same plant type nearby to get the family checked

[Bird Up]

3 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

I hope in the end this new plot-farming system will be sufficiently intuitive and easy for bulk player-base to use at a superficial level, providing enough efficiency to feed them at a better rate than old plot farms - without requiring a side-by-side Wiki dive when playing. Because is clear the aim of superior efficiency seems to be geared towards advanced players (debatable)

I'm thinking about that a lot too. Beta testing worlds are working such that people are *exclusively* farming. This won't be the main play style, say a month from now. So opinions on beta could easily be biased in favor of new farming mechanics. How strong would farms be if people only casually tend to it, and aren't farming masters? I have some casual nooby friends who would like to grow a glorious farm as well, without getting a headache.

6 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

what is the minimum of plants of the same specie? is it 3? because i was making combos for wurt but seems like i need 4 different crops to achieve the nutrients equilibrium and i dont know if is possible with that many

You need 4 of the same species for family bonus.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 minutes ago, Bird Up said:

I'm thinking about that a lot too. Beta testing worlds are working such that people are *exclusively* farming. This won't be the main play style, say a month from now. So opinions on beta could easily be biased in favor of new farming mechanics. How strong would farms be if people only casually tend to it, and aren't farming masters? I have some casual nooby friends who would like to grow a glorious farm as well, without getting a headache.

i was triying and isnt hard to get a seed back. I even wanted to waste seeds (i have like 120 corn seeds) but when i harvest them i get the seed back even if i go to explore for days

i planted these and in most of the soil the compost nutrient were wasted.

Spoiler

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by ArubaroBeefalo

[QuartzBeam]

3 minutes ago, Bird Up said:

How strong would farms be if people only casually tend to it, and aren't farming masters?

Somewhat slower than old advanced farm plots without fertilizer to speed up growth, yet with consistent and consistently better results.

You need to eliminate 3 stress factors to get 1 veggie + 1 guaranteed seed, so you won't have to waste any of your harvest like you did before. It just so happens that Family, Season and Killjoys are 3 stress factors that take virtually no maintenance.

Just plant 4+ crops of the same type in a season they like and dig up the weeds (in the off chance those even spawn in the first place, which is super rare tbh) and voila. You should be getting 1 veggie + 1 seed per crop every... ~3 days.

 

[Ohan]

47 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

I hope in the end this new plot-farming system will be sufficiently intuitive and easy for bulk player-base to use at a superficial level, providing enough efficiency to feed them at a better rate than old plot farms

Your wish has been granted!  You can already ignore nutrients completely and walk away with more produce and more seeds than before. This has been the case since day 1 fyi. Also check quartzbeam's post just above this one xD

Edited December 3, 2020 by Ohan

[shadowDigga]

@ScottHansen Will we get Winter's feast to the main branch today?

[cybers2001]

I like the idea of increased complexity for nutrient balance. If ratios that work out to three (ie. 1:1:1 or 2:1), I'd be fine with a limit of 9 crops per tile, however, the neighbor requirement should be reduced from 4 to 3 to compensate, then.  

Honestly, even typing this out, I think I see where Klei is coming from here. It seems their goal is to allow for completely passive farming, but the cost being not having any giant crops. If you want giant crops, you need to manually fertilize. In that regard, I think where this falls short is the psychological aspect for players where, if their self-sustained farms don't produce giant crops, the build is considered a failure (or at least inefficient). Maybe a compromise is to make giant crops a bit more obtainable passively, but less likely to have the biggest payout without demanding player attentiveness.  

Edit: spent some time with the new nutrient balances.

So as far as I can tell, all the plants pair as 1:1:1. these are the two combos

onion/pepper : garlic/durian : dragonfruit/pomegranate
potato/eggplant/watermelon : toma/pumpkin/corn : carrot/asparagus

I'm actually a bit disappointed in the lack of diversity here. Every plant just consumes one thing and outputs the other two things in half the quantity. I liked it better when some plants consumed two things and output the third thing in double the quantity. I recommend bringing back the latter, but maybe reserve it for common trash veggies. This would essentially allow a player to choose either 2 crop types (with 1 being a trash type) or 3 crop types.

Edited December 3, 2020 by cybers2001

[FloraGreen]

On 12/3/2020 at 7:38 AM, Psychomaniac said:

Yeah, not a fan of this too, why try hard to kill 4x4 plot, modder will just revert this.

Crop-combo should not be restricted, the more combo the more fun when farming.

Please, Klei, don't restricted crops to the point that Survivor come back to 1 meat 1 egg 2 cactus and 1 meat 3 ice.

Farming is just get interesting, and you are trying to kill it with the recent update ([Game Update] - 443554)

Even before the nerfs to the farms with the 4x4 farms (and nearly making 3x3 annoying to even make), I would still choose any other food options compared to farming. I found the crop combinations a bit too restrictive before this change. If farming was made slightly lower maintenance I would maybe consider it a fun alternative for stationary/chill players, but as it is atm it is one of the least good food choices in the game.

Options like honey farms, ice used for meatballs, making perogies in the desert (or near mushroom forests) with a spider nest or hound den nearby are multiple times stronger than farming was at its highest in this test branch.

Edited December 4, 2020 by FloraGreen

[viberr]

17 minutes ago, FloraGreen said:

lover

this is such a great typo.honestly one of my favorites 10/10

(this is not an insult btw.i just felt i needed to write this reply because your comment made me genuinely laugh)

[Rinkusan]

I notice a lot of discussion in this thread is over the lack of viable combinations with the new fertilizer values. Imo you don't need a "perfect" combo of crops where EVERY single crop turns giant. You don't need to make every single crop giant because not all crops are created equal.

Instead of trying to perfectly grow every single crop on the plot, you can aim to grow a specific crop and use the 2nd crop in the combo as fertilizer. For example, pumpkins give the largest amount of hunger by far, and currently, they consume 4 compost. So all you really need to do is pair it with a crop that produces 4 compost, like onions or pomegranates.

You'll get giant pumpkins (2.75 pumpkins per giant pumpkin) for massive amounts of hunger, and you'll also get "bonus onions" to use as filler or the valuable-but-uncommon Warly moquecas; all of this accomplished without thinking about the math all that much or even touching a single piece of fertilizer. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, FloraGreen said:

Even before the nerfs to the farms with the 4x4 farms (and nearly making 3x3 annoying to even make), I would still choose any other food options compared to farming. I found the crop combinations a bit too restrictive before this change. If farming was made slightly lover maintenance I would maybe consider it a fun alternative for stationary/chill players, but as it is atm it is one of the least good food choices in the game.

Options like honey farms, ice used for meatballs, making perogies in the desert (or near mushroom forests) with a spider nest or hound den nearby are multiple times stronger than farming was at its highest in this test branch.

i dont think so when you can get a huge amount of healing and hunger by just plating seeds in 4 tiles with not so much work without need of, later on, needing to cook it in the crokpot with the time it requires

[Rinkusan]

In terms of feedback from this beta so far,  I absolutely love it a million times more than the old farming mechanics and unrewarding Horticulture meta. It's been intrinsically rewarding playing around with these crops and theorycrafting ways to optimize food production. I really like the self-renewing rotted plants mechanic; makes the lazy approach to farming much more viable and manageable than it already was. 

I'm indifferent to the 9-10 crop spacing nerf. Some have mentioned the issue of fitting 9-10 crops per plot if the farm plots are adjacent to each other, but you can just get around that by spacing out the farm plots by 1 square; they don't have to be next to each other. I was a bit annoyed with how the tilled soil would be replaced if you tried to till soil too close to the previous one, but someone in another thread mentioned that you can get around that by planting before further tilling, so I'm fine with this minor issue.

A couple of things I hope do get changed though involve the stressors. Currently, if a plant fully grows, it no longer counts as part of the "family"; that doesn't make sense to me and guarantees that 3 of your 4 family plants will have at least 1 stressor point. Additionally, the happiness-assessment quotes are still not fixed; Wickerbottom still says "two different stressors at once" even when there's 1 or 3 stressors. 

[Electroely]

23 minutes ago, Rinkusan said:

A couple of things I hope do get changed though involve the stressors. Currently, if a plant fully grows, it no longer counts as part of the "family"; that doesn't make sense to me and guarantees that 3 of your 4 family plants will have at least 1 stressor point.

Is that really the case? I just tried growing 4 giant dragonfruits in a test world. I intentionally gave them one stress point (by not fertilizing them as they germinated) and still had all 4 of them grow giant:

Wormwood would've also said "Misses family" if the grown ones weren't considered part of the family, since I assessed the last one's happiness right before it grew.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Electroely

[Psychomaniac]

If klei leave me no choice to get all giant plot then mod has to be enabled, and there is already a mod that does that. So tweak whatever you want, if i can't get it your ways (believe me i'll try), then my way it is :D. Peace!!!

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2303923229&searchtext=

I'm sure there soon will be a mod that made unharvest giant crops stay fresh forever and we'll have a kinda same-old-brand-new-farm-system in like no time 

This is why i said, klei should not restricted Crops-combo so much, with a game that support mod like DST, if Survivor can't get thing your ways, they'll forge their way in. So why try so hard Klei?!

Edited December 4, 2020 by Psychomaniac

[Rinkusan]

55 minutes ago, Electroely said:

Is that really the case? I just tried growing 4 giant dragonfruits in a test world. I intentionally gave them one stress point (by not fertilizing them as they germinated) and still had all 4 of them grow giant:

Wormwood would've also said "Misses family" if the grown ones weren't considered part of the family, since I assessed the last one's happiness right before it grew.

I'm re-testing it right now, but earlier today when I assessed my pumpkins' happiness, they went from "good health" to "2 stressors" when one of my pumpkins turned giant. 

@Electroely Alright, now it's working as you mentioned. But several hours ago, this wasn't the case since my pumpkins' happiness went from good health to 2 stressors; I'm so confused right now. 

[FloraGreen]

10 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i dont think so when you can get a huge amount of healing and hunger by just plating seeds in 4 tiles with not so much work without need of, later on, needing to cook it in the crokpot with the time it requires

The time spent to meet the need of healing and hunger is very long compared to other methods. Grabbing a few cacti, and killing a few hounds, spiders or werepigs gives the options of food with no maintenance, just harvest, that also yield additional benefits along the way. Perogies, and cooked cactus is one of the top picks if you want efficiency without having to waste time on maintenance. Even for a Wolfgang staying in mighty you do not need to spend much time on getting food.

Maybe in the wild extreme case that you have a server of 6 base dwellers, it could be an option, but in that case setting up a honey farm is still a better option.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

28 minutes ago, FloraGreen said:

The time spent to meet the need of healing and hunger is very long compared to other methods. Grabbing a few cacti, and killing a few hounds, spiders or werepigs gives the options of food with no maintenance, just harvest, that also yield additional benefits along the way. Perogies, and cooked cactus is one of the top picks if you want efficiency without having to waste time on maintenance. Even for a Wolfgang staying in mighty you do not need to spend much time on getting food.

Maybe in the wild extreme case that you have a server of 6 base dwellers, it could be an option, but in that case setting up a honey farm is still a better option.

I think you didnt calc any time

In the time you farm 60 cacti, 60 eggs and 60 monster meat plus the time require to cook them i will have ready an entire field of tomatoes and dragon fruits that will return more than that

If you dont like it is okey, for that this update is amazing, it brings a new good way of getting food, sanity and healing, but saying that it isnt worth... that just means that you didnt try or understand the new farms

I have problems to store all the veggies i get for just a 1/3 part of spring or even less and i didnt even babysit the farms, as some of the users against farms think, you only need to plant it and leave.

I have already let in other topics an screenshot of my field and the results. Arround120 tomatoes (20hp each)+60 dragonpies for just 1 harvest (few days of spring) isnt a joke and i understand klei when they decided to nerf the combos in the previous hotfix because is extremly easy to get food (useful food) with this method

So tell me how much time you will need to harvest and cook that amount of healing and food because it will not be less even with autofarms 

[Psychomaniac]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

store all the veggies

Try to grow veggies into giant, after harvest (just pick them up and leave them on the plot) they last 40 days (if i remembered correctly), that why i  choose to farm in Spring and Autumn: easy combo, nice weather, still have enough food for the next season to come.

1 hour ago, FloraGreen said:

efficiency

I feel you bruh: spider, cactus, and ice are all you need to survive DST, oh and a Bird in a cage (almost forgot).

The new farming system is just something to spice up the mid and late games, when you are well prepared and have nothing to do (to all farmer no offence, i do like farming, especially after the newest hot fix).

Edited December 4, 2020 by Psychomaniac

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 minutes ago, Psychomaniac said:

Try to grow veggies into giant, after harvest (just pick them up and leave them on the plot) they last 40 days (if i remembered correctly), that why i  choose to farm in Spring and Autumn: easy combo, nice weather, still have enough food for the next season to come.

i didnt though they last that long, im running out of bundle wraps xD