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The gaming adrenaline junkie in me is no doubt going to miss the HP mechanic lol, but thinking logically, these changes make sense and Scott gave very good reasons for them. I like how Wendy now has more to give when playing cooperatively. 

Also, Abigail's aggressiveness is back. Cool. 

Thanks for the changes and for listening, guys.

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16 minutes ago, ButterStuffed said:

If the max damage possible was achieved at like 50 health so that it didn't require CONSTANT attention and backing up to heal just above the minimum health to survive another hit then it would have been better but even then it would pretty much be free extra damage at virtually no cost.

Completely agree, the glass cannon thing could have stayed but only if Abby scaled faster and achieved max damage when Wendy still retained about 30 hp, or something of the sorts, that wouldn't mean a single second of freezing death.

The new debuff thing is super interesting though. I still have to try her out in practice how it feels to see how this handles but overall I think it will be just a much better version of what we had pre-rework, and a more friendly approach to all the player's skill levels.

2 minutes ago, Educated Fish said:

If you put enough sisturns together you might be able to a sanity station

You can't put them close enough to stack though. But I've been testing of adding evil flowers around to see if with the bee queen hat we can get the most out of both things. You can still plant flowers the normal way,

Edited by ShadowDuelist
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14 minutes ago, Educated Fish said:

If you put enough sisturns together you might be able to a sanity station

 

You mind explaining this?

when I put flowers into a Sisturn and stand near it as Wendy I always gain more Sanity then I lose, it’s strong enough that you can stand beside it at night with only Abigails glow as a light source & You will still gain Sanity instead of losing it.

Is that NOT A Sanity Station?

Not to mention that’s just a bonus perk the Sisturn does... its REAL purpose is to speed up the time it takes to bloom Abigails flower.

I think not needing to wear a Head Garland or a Top Hat AT ALL and still gain free increased Sanity just by standing near it Qualifies it as a Sanity Station right? 

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1 hour ago, Freshness said:

It went from high risk high reward to just boring snooze cruise.
Which is even more of a punch in the gut considering that THEN a mechanic was added that makes wendy deal more damage after Abigail attacked a foe
which yknow could've been genuinely interesting. But hey I guess it cant be asked to have ANY textural debth in the gameplay, since we gotta just all sit on the meta for some reason. 

Then there's a plethora more characters that cater to your style of playing then. Some characters were never meant to be played that way and you have to remember that this is a MULTIPLAYER mode of their game. Solo is still there, just not as viable. So of course, elements of each character complement other character's play style. 

It's obviously not for everybody and definitely won't please everyone's "depth in gameplay". Certainly not yours and a few people here already replying.

If you want more challenge then find another character, or give yourself one. Not everybody is here to be some hardcore "Dark Souls" difficulty player. Nor a community that is toxic to be something that SoulsBorne has become over the years that pander to OHKO bosses and mobs. 

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Okay, let's do this again, one last time.

 

Wendy Rework 2.0

Damage

Abigail has 3 different damage modifiers

Day=15

Dusk=25

Night=40

Slighly buffed from her pre-rework version.

Edit: Note, the damage Abigail dealts get divided by the x1.1 Debuff mentioned below before being applied, so before the first hit with a non-debuffed enemy, she will do a slightly less amount of damage than these numbers. So 13.6, 22.7, 36.3

Edit2: She actually does less damage, but her passive buff is calculated before the damage is applied, so even if a mod tells you she does slighly less, her buff increases the damage to those written above.

---------

Debuff

Whenever Abigail inflicts damage on an enemy, it will receive a hex that will give an aura of flower petals around him. for 2 seconds.

This aura adds a damage multiplier of x1.1 of all damage taken, unless is damage from a Wendy player, in which case it adds a x1.4 multipier.

This makes it so when Wendy and Abigail cooperate, Wendy can deal damage with a multiplier of (0.75x1.4) = x1.05
Edit2: She also gets the x.1.1 extra from Abigail's debuff, as they are applied separatedly, so (0.75*x1.4*x1.1)=x1.155

Edit: I should mention this only applies to combat damage, which counts on damage received by players and mobs, like pigs, bats, bunnies... but not other sources of damage, like fire, earthquakes, weather pain, etc.

---------

Elixirs

Renevant Restorative = last for a day, adds an extra 1 health per second regen for a total of 960HP
Spectral Cure-All= last for 30 seconds, adds an extra 20 health per second regen for a total of 600HP
Unyielding Draught = last for a day, increases shield animation duration
Distliged vengance = last for a day, has all normal shield buffs plus retaliation of 20 damage
Nightshade Nostrum= last for a day, gives abigail the night damage multiplier
Vigor Mortis = last for a day, adds speed multipliyer of 1.75, can be haunted by player ghosts for a 3 second buff duration.

---------

Shield

Abigail shields have now been slightly buffed

The base lasts for 0.45 0.5 seconds

5e7c03a8886e8_abigailshiledbase_abigail_shield_shield.gif.55386b7103f57e4b50c7e55212002366.gif

And the buffed shields last 0.9 1 full second, doubling the duration of regular shield.

5e7c03d3f1238_abigailshiledbase_abigail_shield_shield_buff.thumb.gif.adbdfb312924359fdc8cee9fb0cdb37b.gif5e7c03d91e2ff_abigailshiledbase_abigail_shield_shield_retaliation.thumb.gif.8ddd884c99fa45dac2f436baede273ff.gif

---------

Overall, I'm pretty happy Wendy rework 2.0 turned out, she's got her uses, although she no longer can reach 89 damage, she has a nice 44 damage at night thanks to the debuff, plus the shield, that is still useless against single targets. The debuff tho, might actually make it worthwhile to keep abigail alive during boss fights instead of just letting her commit suicide and ressurect her after all is done.

What I'm not completely happy with are the elixirs. I would've given them half a day, since I don't think most of them should be day long buffs, whereas keeping the speed elixir to 3 days.

Edited by CremeLover
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So, numbers. 14/23/36 damage seems fair to me, especially as we can force a constant 36 by using the Nightshade item, which is made with a bee sting (giving it another use and encouraging an apiary which I really love to do regardless of character). I like the adjusted numbers for mourning glory.

 

Also, question, the damage-increasing debuff applies to *everything* or just PCs?

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13 minutes ago, Terra M Welch said:

I approve of the addition of glommer buddy. :)

Noooo it must Die! Even Wendy’s Quote for it seems to imply she wants it Dead. I prefer to carry a cute Halloween skinned Kittykit around with me even if she doesn’t provide me free Sanity like that ugly noisy flying bug.

Edited by Mike23Ua
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2 hours ago, ScottHansen said:

A big thanks to Klei Entertainment.

The numbers that are here, now, that I'm seeing are what I was wanting.

1% hp for a darksword ghost was a big risk factor for low payout, and now with these changes it makes her quite the viable monster.

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3 hours ago, ScottHansen said:

A big thanks to everyone for your feedback on the Wendy Character Refresh. I'm glad to be working on a game where our fans passionately dissect everything we do and give their feedback.

We have decided to move away from Wendy's health value modifying Abigail's damage. We had intended for it to represent Abigail becoming enraged as her sister was approaching death, however it resulted in the sisters not working together as a team.

As of this hotfix, Abigail's damage is back to being based on the day/dusk/night phases and she has received a boost to her day and dusk damage. Abigail's attack now besets her opponents with ghostly petals for a short period of time. Opponent's beset by Abigail's ghostly petals will receive extra damage by all other attackers (eg other players, Pigmen, etc.) Wendy, being Abigail's twin sister, is able to take advantage of this and will deal substantially more damage. We have also renamed the Choleric Tonic to Nightshade Nostrum and changed it to allow Abigail to deal damage during the daytime and dusk as though it was nighttime.

I'll also take this opportunity to clear up the mechanics behind Abigail's shield. When Abigail takes damage, she will put up a shield to block all incoming attacks for a short period of time, similar to how the Thulecite Crown works. Applying the Unyielding Draught will double the duration of the shield, while Distilled Vengeance will double the duration and deal damage to anything that hits the shield. 
We hope everyone enjoys these changes. A full list of details can be found below.

Changes:

  • Changed Abigail's damage back to be based on time of day instead of Wendy’s health.
  • Increased Abigail’s damage during daytime and dusk.
  • Abigail's attack besets her opponents with ghostly petals for a short period of time, increasing its damage received from all other damage sources. Wendy is able to take advantage of this and will deal substantially more damage.
  • Spectral Cure-All now lasts for 30 seconds and the other Ectoherbology elixirs now have a duration of 1 day.
  • Replaced the Choleric Tonic with Nightshade Nostrum.
  • Nightshade Nostrum allows Abigail to call upon the power of darkness, causing her to deal nighttime damage during the daytime and dusk.
  • Abigail’s shields received a minor increase in duration. 
  • Retuned the number of Mourning Glory required to craft the Ectoherbology elixirs.
  • Reduced how far away the Pipspook’s lost trinkets will spawn.
  • Changed Abigail’s riled-up targeting to encompass more creatures.

Bug Fixes:

  • Fixed the scaling of Distilled Vengeance’s damage fx 
  • Fixed various Wilson skins hair orientation in the back view.
  • Fixed missing fur tufts on Wortox.
  • Fixed an issue with Wendy’s Nostalgic skin’s hair when doing the kiss emote.
     

 

View full update

 

I have no words to express how grateful I am! They do so well together now as they do with a team! Klei, she got to the point that any change could throw everything up again, in this current situation is where she can stay. Thank you for reading our opinions and coming to a good conclusion! DEAR GOD I'M SO HAPPY!!!! I am also very glad to see a team that works with their fans, all of you do a great job and I wish more and more success! 

Spoiler

(My bird friend Rodrigo also wanted to join the photo [also ignore the moon]).

5e7c00d5ef24c_birdofriend.thumb.png.d3dfb5f904021ddf8cf49cdce1794154.png

But about the new Elixir, i would like to say something:

Nightshade Nostrum: Can be crafted with 2 nightmare fuels at most. It's an effort that goes beyond Wendy's focus to add more damage and it's more related to "night".

That's all i can say by now, she's really good, thanks for that, Klei <333

1 hour ago, CremeLover said:

Okay, let's do this again, one last time.

 

Wendy Rework 2.0

Damage

Abigail has 3 different damage modifiers

Day=15

Dusk=25

Night=40

Slighly buffed from her pre-rework version.

---------

Debuff

Whenever Abigail inflicts damage on an enemy, it will receive a hex that will give an aura of flower petals around him. for 2 seconds.

This aura adds a damage multiplier of x1.1 of all damage taken, unless is damage from a Wendy player, in which case it adds a x1.4 multipier.

This makes it so when Wendy and Abigail cooperate, Wendy can deal damage with a multiplier of (0.75x1.4) = x1.05

Edit: I should mention this only applies to combat damage, which counts on damage received by players and mobs, like pigs, bats, bunnies... but not other sources of damage, like fire, earthquakes, weather pain, etc.

---------

Elixirs

Renevant Restorative = last for a day, adds an extra 1 health per second regen for a total of 960HP
Spectral Cure-All= last for 30 seconds, adds an extra 20 health per second regen for a total of 600HP
Unyielding Draught = last for a day, increases shield animation duration
Distliged vengance = last for a day, has all normal shield buffs plus retaliation of 20 damage
Nightshade Nostrum= last for a day, gives abigail the night damage multiplier
Vigor Mortis = last for a day, adds speed multipliyer of 1.75, can be haunted by player ghosts for a 3 second buff duration.

---------

Shield

Abigail shields have now been slightly buffed

The base lasts for 0.45 seconds, 1 frame more.

5e7c03a8886e8_abigailshiledbase_abigail_shield_shield.gif.55386b7103f57e4b50c7e55212002366.gif

And the buffed shields last 0.9 seconds, doubling the duration of regular shield and 0.18 seconds the duration of old buffed shield.

5e7c03d3f1238_abigailshiledbase_abigail_shield_shield_buff.thumb.gif.adbdfb312924359fdc8cee9fb0cdb37b.gif5e7c03d91e2ff_abigailshiledbase_abigail_shield_shield_retaliation.thumb.gif.8ddd884c99fa45dac2f436baede273ff.gif

---------

Overall, I'm pretty happy Wendy rework 2.0 turned out, she's got her uses, although she no longer can reach 89 damage, she has a nice 44 damage at night thanks to the debuff, plus the shield, that is still useless against single targets. The debuff tho, might actually make it worthwhile to keep abigail alive during boss fights instead of just letting her commit suicide and ressurect her after all is done.

What I'm not completely happy with are the elixirs. I would've given them half a day, since I don't think most of them should be day long buffs, whereas keeping the speed elixir to 3 days.

I guess her damage is 14/23/36 now

Spoiler

14.png.37c45e6d05030680579de5c7bf436f76.png23.png.6e4c6bce9462cdbc2758f2cc2bc62b4f.png36.png.463132bd9b05f495bc4f8a9b6b0fcbb7.png

 

Edited by Toriih
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15 minutes ago, Toriih said:

I guess her damage is 14/23/26 now

  Reveal hidden contents

14.png.37c45e6d05030680579de5c7bf436f76.png23.png.6e4c6bce9462cdbc2758f2cc2bc62b4f.png36.png.463132bd9b05f495bc4f8a9b6b0fcbb7.png

 

You are right, Klei actually changed the damage formula. What is actually happening is that the damage gets divided by the debuff of x1.1 before applying it to enemies, so she doesn't do extra damage, just does the damage is set up to do AFTER the first hit.

Will update it. Thanks.

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Nice changes, gj Klei! With this overall re-rework of Wendy (and Abi) am sure I for one will pick more often the character in future pub sessions. Seems well rounded mechanically and from lore perspective.

 

As for people wanting that so-called "glass canon" - as stated in OP, it encouraged vast majority of players to let Abi fight (masses of mobs) most times when Wendy was close to said fabled 1hp, a play-style not really in tune with the character's supposed personality and lore. Not to mention the rewards of doing so weren't that great anyway in general (in relation to theoretical risk).

Edited by x0-VERSUS-1y
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Couldn't the two or three mechanics co-exist?

  1. Abigail being weaker during the day and the strongest during the night, if the Nightshade Nostrum is not used.
  2. Abigail getting a damage boost, but smaller than in the previous version, depending on Wendy's health. (Maybe only between 100% and 20% of Wendy's HP, not to make people feel the need to go below 30HP, even for the reduced boost.)
  3. The newly added ghostly petals without change, if not for some other reason.

The new debuff mechanic that favors Wendy is also great, but the HP based enrage mechanic made a lot of sense thematically, besides a ghost's power being based mostly on the time of day.

I'm also in favor of not letting Wendy hit Abigail at all. (If Winona can dodge one of Charlie's attacks, why couldn't Abigail and Wendy cooperate way better than that?)

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1 hour ago, CremeLover said:

Distliged vengance = last for a day, has all normal shield buffs plus retaliation of 20 damage

What you mean with "has all normal shield buffs"? I'm kinda confused with how it works. And it's 20 raw damage? Not %?

Edited by Toriih
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6 minutes ago, Toriih said:

What you mean with "has all normal shield buffs"? I'm kinda confused with how it works. And it's 20 raw damage? Not %?

It doubles the shield Duration just like Unyielding Draught, with the added bonus that anything that hits the shield takes 20 damage.

And no it's 20%. It's 20 flat.

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