[Game Update] - 401443

[Kaw_]

Just now, QuartzBeam said:

It doubles the shield Duration just like Unyielding Draught, with the added bonus that anything that hits the shield takes 20 damage.

And no it's 20%. It's 20 flat.

Thanks 

[CremeLover]

Just now, Toriih said:

I'm testing her damage here and 15/25/40 it's what her actually do. I don't really know how the mod calculates it, sorry xD

What you mean with "has all normal shield buffs"? I'm kinda confused with how it works. And it's 20 raw damage? Not %?

This is what is happening.

Abigail has 3 damage setups

Day=15

Dusk=25

Night=40

This gets divided by the same damage her debuff applies, which is x1.1.

The abigail damage formula is (Damage = damage.timeOfDay/abigailHexDebuff)

Once Abigail hits an enemy, she will apply a debuff of flower petals around the mob she hit, that lasts for 2 seconds. This debuff increases damage taken by x1.1

So with the debuff of the enemy added to the formula

Damage = TimeOfDay * (abigailHexDebuff / abigailHexDebuff) = TimeOfDay * 1

The only disanvadtage is that is applied only after Abigail hits an enemy and applies the debuff.

 

And Abigail's shield nullifies all damage taken for the specific amount of seconds the animation lasts, the shield activates upon being hit, like bone armor or thulecite crown.

The retaliation shiled is a direct upgrade to the shield elixir, both double the shield duration, but a plus that all enemies that hit the shield get a raw 20 damage in retaliation damage.

 

[Kaw_]

3 minutes ago, CremeLover said:

This is what is happening.

Abigail has 3 damage setups

Day=15

Dusk=25

Night=40

This gets divided by the same damage her debuff applies, which is x1.1.

The abigail damage formula is (Damage = damage.timeOfDay/abigailHexDebuff)

Once Abigail hits an enemy, she will apply a debuff of flower petals around the mob she hit, that lasts for 2 seconds. This debuff increases damage taken by x1.1

So with the debuff of the enemy added to the formula

Damage = TimeOfDay * (abigailHexDebuff / abigailHexDebuff) = TimeOfDay * 1

The only disanvadtage is that is applied only after Abigail hits an enemy and applies the debuff.

 

And Abigail's shield nullifies all damage taken for the specific amount of seconds the animation lasts, the shield activates upon being hit, like bone armor or thulecite crown.

The retaliation shiled is a direct upgrade to the shield elixir, both double the shield duration, but a plus that all enemies that hit the shield get a raw 20 damage in retaliation damage.

 

Everything became clearer now, thanks for the clarification! I got confused with this whole math xD

Nice work with these informations!

Edited March 26, 2020 by Toriih

[sinisterrkid]

3 hours ago, ScottHansen said:

I'm glad to be working on a game where our fans passionately dissect everything we do and give their feedback.

This made me so happy to read  

Edited March 26, 2020 by sinisterrkid

[Scrimbles]

So now Wendy can do extra damage when attacking the same targets as Abigail, essentially removing her only downside?

 

I'm all for promoting Abigail, but now Wendy is another case of a character that has no flaws, just like Woodie.

[CremeLover]

4 minutes ago, Toriih said:

Everything became clearer now, thanks for the clarification! I got confused with this whole math xD

Nice work with these informations!

My pleasure.

And regarding the vonfusing math, just think of it like this

"Klei wanted abigail to deal 15-25-40 damage"

"Abigail has a debuff upon hitting an enemy, that increases all damage taken"

"Let's decrease Abigail damage by the exact amount the buff gives"

End result, Klei reduced her damage by the debuff amount and is later increased by the debuff on the enemy, resulting in a net zero.

[Kaw_]

7 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

So now Wendy can do extra damage when attacking the same targets as Abigail, essentially removing her only downside?

 

I'm all for promoting Abigail, but now Wendy is another case of a character that has no flaws, just like Woodie.

Well, only if Abigail is with her. Most of the time, but not all.

[Terra B Welch]

14 minutes ago, Toriih said:

Well, only if Abigail is with her. Most of the time, but not all.

Yeah like for example, fighting the Ancient Guardian.

AG will either destroy abigail in seconds, or abigail won't get much a chance to debuff him due to him sprinting everywhere.
Keep in mind I'm talking about an AG solo where you don't cheese him like 99% of players who fight AG.

(Now I do admit, I've cheesed AG plenty of times, namely on pubs, usually in solo worlds though I prefer the legit fight.)

Clockwork/Damaged Rooks are another example of an enemy abigail isn't as good against, though in that case if you're using a hambat or dark sword and it's night/in caves or you're using the night tonic then you might kill rooks too fast for them to kill abigail.

Just trying to say it doesn't resolve every enemy, sure wendy can tear up spider warriors really quick before they do too much to abigail(I mention warriors cause regular spiders don't even get a chance anymore, abigail pre-empts them) but theres likely still some enemies that you just won't be able to exploit abigail against.

[Superlucas1231]

The real sin of this patch was that Klei made the sisters more powerful but didn't show it by expanding Wendy's forehead

Don't worry I gotchu Klei 

Spoiler

Edit: I have been notice

Spoiler

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Superlucas1231

[Mysterious box]

Not gonna lie I feel like this killed my interest in wendy I really liked the hp tied mechanic it was a lot more interesting but to each their own.

[Yuuko]

I love it!  This sounds like a great adjustment!  If you guys wanna give stats that scale on health, give them to Wes!  Make him be like the reverse Wolfgang, where he can perform well the lower his health is.  Wes does "have trouble staying alive" afterall, and I think it would suit a challenge character to have such a mechanic.

9 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Not gonna lie I feel like this killed my interest in wendy I really liked the hp tied mechanic it was a lot more interesting but to each their own.

I'm with you that the health scaling was interesting, but I just don't feel it works for Wendy - a character that has typically been an easier character, not a challenge character.

Perhaps if they used this type of mechanic with Wes it would interest you~  I know it would interest me.

[Zheos]

39 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

So now Wendy can do extra damage when attacking the same targets as Abigail, essentially removing her only downside?

 

I'm all for promoting Abigail, but now Wendy is another case of a character that has no flaws, just like Woodie.

Yeah no, she's still not good for things like clockworks and boss monsters. Nice for things like hounds and spiders, but for bigger things she'll still deal reduced damage thanks to Abigail sitting those fights out, so she keeps her weakness.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I love it!  This sounds like a great adjustment!  If you guys wanna give stats that scale on health, give them to Wes!  Make him be like the reverse Wolfgang, where he can perform well the lower his health is.  Wes does "have trouble staying alive" afterall, and I think it would suit a challenge character to have such a mechanic.

I'm with you that the health scaling was interesting, but I just don't feel it works for Wendy - a character that has typically been an easier character, not a challenge character.

Perhaps if they used this type of mechanic with Wes it would interest you~  I know it would interest me.

But I feel Wendy and Abigail made the most sense in universe for this idea it makes sense that sisters would fight harder to prevent a terrible fate but what's done is done.

8 minutes ago, Zheos said:

Yeah no, she's still not good for things like clockworks and boss monsters. Nice for things like hounds and spiders, but for bigger things she'll still deal reduced damage thanks to Abigail sitting those fights out, so she keeps her weakness.

Abigail is perfectly able to help you fight clockworks so long as you fight alongside her.

[ShadowDuelist]

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

But I feel Wendy and Abigail made the most sense in universe for this idea it makes sense that sisters would fight harder to prevent a terrible fate but what's done is done.

Thematically now Wendy is weak on her own, but when fighting side by side to her sister she's even stronger than regular characters (1.1 average damage + abigail damage). I think it makes more sense now, than being at 1hp watching the ghost fight.

17 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

If you guys wanna give stats that scale on health, give them to Wes!  Make him be like the reverse Wolfgang, where he can perform well the lower his health is.

This please!

[Educated Fish]

If Carl says this is a good rework then it must be good.

 

 

Honestly either wes or wigfrid should get the less hp = more damage as much as people liked the damage sitting back and watching abby fight doesn't sound appealing

Edited March 26, 2020 by Educated Fish

[Cuikui]

@CremeLover How do you get 0.45 and 0.9 second for the duration of the animations ?

Spriter gives me 0.5 and 1 second.

[Educated Fish]

Also Good job to Klei for doing this kind of stuff for a what is it now 6 year old game probably older and changing the characters accordingly if their is an issue not only that but still working in the midst of the crisis you guys are totally awesome.

[HeatAndRun]

4 hours ago, ScottHansen said:

All the fantastic re-balancing

Everyone :

Spoiler

Edited March 26, 2020 by HeatAndRun

[MAMMAL_MAN]

Good job Klei! Wendy is now more comfortable to play now that she is no longer a glass cannon! Honestly it was annoying to get your health as low as possible to get the most of Abigail.

 

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Ogrecakes said:

So now Wendy can do extra damage when attacking the same targets as Abigail, essentially removing her only downside?

 

I'm all for promoting Abigail, but now Wendy is another case of a character that has no flaws, just like Woodie.

And as Klei have stated in the past- they design this game with its FUTURE already in mind.

So yeah maybe Wendy and Woodie DONT have any serious Cons, Hell who knows, Maybe even Wes won’t have any either once they are done with him.. But Only Klei knows their intentions, they know what they are doing and I get this feeling that when Return of Them updates are 100% complete that we may not even NEED characters with Cons anymore... because the game world itself will be plenty difficult and challenging all in its very own.

For all we Know they could be deep in the finishing processes of creating a DST Totally Uncompromising Hardcore Mode..

So Don’t worry too much if Characters are starting to feel like they have a ton of good perks and not enough bad ones- I brought that up in the case of WURT the month she was released because I felt she had way too much good and hardly any bad at all.. and Yet not a single update has addressed that since Wurts Release. 

My conclusion- Klei is building everything with the games future already in their mind, and so yeah... maybe to US these characters don’t seem to have many (or any) negative perks- But I can promise you they don’t intend for all their new content they have planned to be a complete Cakewalk either.

Big things are coming for this game franchise..... I can just... I simply... feel it in my bones. 

No im not psychic.. But I am very hopeful that Return of Them Update #4 She Sells Seashells will bring lots of new content for us to Enjoy.

As long as Covid-19 doesn’t interfere with their development process I feel extremely confident in predicting that (the stuff we got in 2019) and the stuff we will be getting now in 2020 & hopefully later into 2021 will be full of Great DST updates.

Klei states in their Roadmap that they want to try and give us new game content once per month, so if they broke each month up between March- Character Rework Wendy April- Return of Them She Sells Seashells  May- Character Rework June- Return of Them Update 5 

And Just continued that process all the way throughout this year I would be happy.

I try my best to support Klei by buying Skin Sets whenever I have spare money to spend or encouraging friends & random strangers I meet in other games to buy the game whenever possible so that they can continue developing all these amazing updates for us!  

TL:DR- Until Return of Them is 100% completed... I would reserve my Opinions on Klei’s Decisions that characters like Woodie, Wendy, Wurt and even possibly Wes can have a ton of good perks & hardly any Cons.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Mike23Ua

[sovon9]

Now people are complaining about revert back the changes but they have to understand that in this wendy rework season everybody will use her no matter what perks she got ,even 1hp damage run also can be done by pro players but when everything is over Will they still play as wendy when they are playing alone ? I mean will it be there player of choice after this rework season is over or after new updates will come? 

This is necessary because not any general player will choose wendy to try out 1hp run. Klei has made these rework to make people choose wendy again as a player of choice to the most players.

I don't want to hurt anybody, sorry in advance, but trying 1hp run is different from doing it everyday

[Wytera]

Many thanks to you Klei for the changes. 

 

 

[Bird Up]

1 hour ago, Ogrecakes said:

So now Wendy can do extra damage when attacking the same targets as Abigail, essentially removing her only downside?

 

I'm all for promoting Abigail, but now Wendy is another case of a character that has no flaws, just like Woodie.

Wendy still struggles fighting shadows at .75x damage as Abby cannot help there. Fighting most bosses alone is difficult as well as Abby dies really fast since she takes double damage from bosses and rooks. 

[BirdyMurakami]

This is actually a really good re-rework. I'm REALLY happy you made her reasonably aggressive again. It's good she won't attack chester and glommer which was a primary concern.

For the renamed potion, you should make it so it uses a single nightmare fuel instead of a stinger. It would make more sense. But I don't demand it or anything; I'm happy with how things are now.

I have to commend Klei for listening to the feedback of their community.

[Swanky Psammead]

2 hours ago, CarlZalph said:

The numbers that are here, now, that I'm seeing are what I was wanting.

1% hp for a darksword ghost was a big risk factor for low payout, and now with these changes it makes her quite the viable monster.

I don't consider low HP to be a big risk factor, especially since it was something players could opt into rather than something they were compelled to do by force. If you didn't like being at low HP, you could make do with 20 DPS Abigail. It was still reasonably friendly to new players.

The issue with Rework 1.0, for me, was that Abigail was not actually "a Dark Sword ghost" at 1hp. She did 60 damage per second to single targets and 52 in an AOE. The dark sword does ~136 damage to single targets, because player attack period is twice as fast as Abigail's and it does 68 damage per hit. Those were the numbers I was expecting when Klei announced their planned changes a couple weeks ago, but the damage we got was much lower. I was imagining that a 1hp Wendy would yield something like a 100dps Abigail, and I was prepared to hover around 16-21hp for a ~90dps Abigail while still keeping a little above the threshold where I could be one-shot.

Even so, I thought the low-HP bonus had the most potential of the announced new mechanics, and I am very sad to see it gone in Rework 2.0 rather than simply increased. I do like the support mechanic of Abigail shredding enemy defenses for 1.1x bonus from all sources in Rework 2.0 though, I hope that is preserved.

4 hours ago, Zheos said:

Are people complaining about the changes Wendy mains or did they just pick her up with this rework? Because honestly..

Wendy main of many years here. I really liked the low HP mechanic in principle, even though I felt the amount of damage gained was too small.

My instinct would be to keep the low HP mechanic, the allied damage buff, and the day/night cycle buff, and have them be small individually but stack multiplicatively. Give people options while preserving risk/reward.

In any case I'm happy that Klei listens to feedback and that the discussion is passionate. It was never going to be easy to please everyone but I hope my two cents are of some value as Wendy continues being tweaked.