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nakomaru    1,418
43 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

A tempshift plate, or 2 tile tall statue, behind your naptha/petro stacked lock will hold up just fine to 1000C metal passing through. The liquid temp change from the plate trumps the debri exchange, by leaps and bounds. :)  

I wrote this out the first time and then deleted it for some reason. :)

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Gurgel    1,192
3 hours ago, Fleetfeet said:

 

Waterlock.png

Stinky does not seem to approve though....

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Lifegrow    1,526
8 hours ago, mathmanican said:

Trying to stack naptha on itself, and failing.  Am I missing something, or was this an old behavior?  If you can make a 60/30 stack, I'd love to learn how. :) 

Sorry bud, was a misleading reply. I meant horizontally, i.e.

image.png.9025f03c09b8c4b1ca29dc8962a1ba31.png

When Naptha is dripped with a pitcher pump in a survival game from the left insulation tile to cover the sweeper/loader - it'll amass at ~60kg, then ~30kg which is ideal for cooling hot handling setups. 

With most other liquids it's normally grams instead of kilograms as you're aware :) 

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Xuhybrid    259
9 hours ago, 0xFADE said:

In all my years I have yet to build a gravestone. 

What's it for anyway? Always wondered.

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beowulf2010    537
1 hour ago, Xuhybrid said:

What's it for anyway? Always wondered.

Officially? Marking the locations of where your dupes die. 

Unofficially? The best foreground heatsink in the game. 

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Xuhybrid    259
1 hour ago, beowulf2010 said:

Officially? Marking the locations of where your dupes die. 

Unofficially? The best foreground heatsink in the game. 

Where dupes die? Not sure what you mean.

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Fleetfeet    19

Gravestones also have interactions with death-related debuffs, so your dupes don't just accumulate a ton of stress from a dupe dying.

I only know this because Meep was a bad egg. The whole colony agreed he had to go, it just... they still preferred his body to not be lying around after he died.

Fun fact! Even if you later (hypothetically) develop a plan to reanimate any buried dupes using totally ethical and good necromantic techniques, you won't find the body by digging up the gravestone. Meep is gone forever, and cannot be made a treadmill zombie.

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BLACKBERREST3    233

I guess you could theoretically farm new duplicants every three cycles. You don't have to feed them and they produce pw and co2. If only they dropped meat :D.

Spoiler

mourning debuff is +10% stress over 3 cycles, not too bad.

 

I think the exploit where you bury a dupe and deconstruct the memorial still works, I'll have to test that. Unless you want a trophy room of dead bodies and morbs.

Edited by BLACKBERREST3

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beowulf2010    537
3 hours ago, Xuhybrid said:

Where dupes die? Not sure what you mean.

Hey now. I didn't say the official use was actually useful. :D

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OxCD    447

I got some like this, by accident, and each time they break the first/second/third time a dup walk across. The liquid runs down.

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bzgzd    276
13 minutes ago, beowulf2010 said:

Hey now. I didn't say the official use was actually useful. :D

I actually used gravestone officially as I killed one of my dupes that I was not satisfied with...

And gravestone is not just to put dead dupes inside it but also for removing "Mourning" debuff that lasts 3 cycles when not removed and adds 20% stress per cycle. Dupes go to gravestone and cry a bit and then debuff is removed.

 

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beowulf2010    537

 

1 hour ago, bzgzd said:

I actually used gravestone officially as I killed one of my dupes that I was not satisfied with...

And gravestone is not just to put dead dupes inside it but also for removing "Mourning" debuff that lasts 3 cycles when not removed and adds 20% stress per cycle. Dupes go to gravestone and cry a bit and then debuff is removed.

True. Then again, if I counted every single time I let a Dupe stay dead instead of reloading an earlier save on one hand, I'd still have all 4 fingers and my thumb left. :D

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Fleetfeet    19

Okay, gonna update OP with some pictures / uses of this style of corner-lock for ease of information transfer to fellow newbies. I just wanna be sure that I'm not spreading misinformation, so please do contact me if you notice something I post (when I update it) that is outright incorrect.

My current understanding is this:

The core structure simply requires the components shown in the attached file.

The higher the volume of liquid, the less likely it is to be displaced.

Duplicants exhale out of their bottom tile while breathing, so it -is- still possible for the tile to be displaced if it is a low-volume liquid, and the dupe breathes oxygen from 'c' while standing on 'a'

If tile "b" is co2 or vacuum, liquid a will never be displaced by exhalation (?)

offgassing from a dropped bleachstone or pO2 bottle can displace the liquid.

Anything else important I should include in the OP? Just looking to be simple and informative for other new people.
 

liquidlock_001.png

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BLACKBERREST3    233
On 9/14/2019 at 3:21 PM, BLACKBERREST3 said:

I guess you could theoretically farm new duplicants every three cycles. You don't have to feed them and they produce pw and co2

Forgot to mention, I think they recover their full breath with very little oxygen. Automation will be involved of course. I'll see if I can make this an exploit :D  I did

Spoiler

I could also test with natural oxyferns, hmmmmmmmm done son

-adding this topic to oniversity, but do I add it under locks or dupe interaction? this topic kinda exploded in a different direction for the better imo  under the section of locks. Hopefully a guide for phase change mechanics will be created later.

 

Edited by BLACKBERREST3

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biopon    226
On 9/13/2019 at 11:47 PM, mathmanican said:

A tempshift plate, or 2 tile tall statue, behind your naptha/petro stacked lock will hold up just fine to 1000C metal passing through.

Sir, you have just changed my life.

On 9/14/2019 at 8:18 PM, Fleetfeet said:

Anything else important I should include in the OP?

Tempshift plates and statues. :) I'll do some testing but it seems like these droplet locks that I've only used for temporary access can now be permanent.

Okay something funky is going on here. Either @mathmanican is wrong (unlikely) or I'm doing something wrong (mmmaybe).

image.png.5dcd4f955e6cb83e3324fce509895dc6.png

3 dirt tempshift plates for good measure, and the water droplet was on that igneous tile. I assumed a dupe dropped a 2-ton 1000C chunk of obsidian on it. Instant steam. The tempshift and tile temps are barely changing (which is expected) but water vaporizes when it encloses that obsidian chunk.

Before anyone yells at me, yes, I've tried not just with 32 grams of water, but 200 grams of petroleum and oil as well: instant sour gas.

Edited by biopon

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Fleetfeet    19

I'll be happy to add temperature controls to the design to make it permanent, but such things are well beyond my purview. If y'all puzzle it out in a stable way, I'll happily relay that info into the OP.

Speaking of which, I should also include a bunch of credits :)

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BLACKBERREST3    233
4 hours ago, biopon said:

Before anyone yells at me, yes, I've tried not just with 32 grams of water, but 200 grams of petroleum and oil as well: instant sour gas.

@biopon I might have to read through the thread again, but iirc, it sounds like a " temperature shock" thing. visco gel handles shock really well while the plates handle long term cooling. On top of that, there might be some flashing mechanics going on, they are in the same cell after all.

It's dangerous to go alone. take this!

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by BLACKBERREST3

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biopon    226
7 minutes ago, BLACKBERREST3 said:

visco gel

Visco gel is fine even without tempshift plates due to its mass and low conductivity, but @mathmanican was specifically talking about naphtha/petrol/etc stacked locks which are by definition a few grams only. And yes, naphtha goes sour gas instantly just like petrol and oil.

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BLACKBERREST3    233

I just did some tests, the temperature of the liquids don't even reach those temps before flashing into a gas. Here are some pics of the moments just before/after it flashed. Ignore the chute, I used alt-q instead.

Spoiler

5d925c488ce11_Annotation2019-09-30153718.png.1530312aa77bb0610bdcc886d6d38a60.png5d925c46af666_Annotation2019-09-30154343.thumb.png.7fbfc02559701f0aac6c30336dac21f7.png5d925c4e44d94_Annotation2019-09-30154141.thumb.png.6cf6f6b52c10e2a9d898a26dc4c84ce7.png

 

I don't know the minimum, but it can be as low as 30kg at 1000C.

On 9/30/2019 at 11:04 AM, biopon said:

hold up just fine to 1000C metal passing through.

I think it's the passing through he was talking about.

Edited by BLACKBERREST3

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fragtzack    9

This topic bit me recently, dupes carrying things back to storage bins though airlocks.

 

1. Create a traditional airlock out of petroleum say like in the oil biome, especially with vacuum on a super hot side.

2. Have a  materials inside the superheat side touch magma, superheated to like 1000C (such a steel/diamond tile that gets destroyed cause realized better optimal placement)

3. Now sweep the superheated materials

 

Spend an hour or so determine what the heck caused your petroleum airlock to vaporize to sour gas.

On 9/13/2019 at 9:47 PM, mathmanican said:

A tempshift plate, or 2 tile tall statue, behind your naptha/petro stacked lock will hold up just fine to 1000C metal passing through. The liquid temp change from the plate trumps the debri exchange, by leaps and bounds. :)  

Oh my, great idea

 

Edited by fragtzack

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BLACKBERREST3    233
49 minutes ago, fragtzack said:

One thing that got me recently is dupes carrying things back to storage bins though airlocks.

 

1. Create a traditional airlock out of petroleum say like in the oil biome, especially with vacuum on a super hot side.

2. Have a  materials inside the superheat side touch magma, superheated to like 1000C (such a steel/diamond tile that gets destroyed cause realized better optimal placement)

3. Now sweep the superheated materials

 

Spend an hour or so determine what the heck caused your petroleum airlock to vaporize to sour gas

I'm not too sure how you're setting this up. pictures help :D

I didn't test in a vacuum, but that shouldn't matter at all because of the one tile rule.

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mathmanican    2,321
6 hours ago, biopon said:

Either @mathmanican is wrong (unlikely)

Just change the "unlikely" to "likely", and we're good here. :)  I make mistakes all the time. If you see something, just test it and post your results, as done above. :) 

If a dupe drops anything hot on a tiny blob of liquid, your liquid lock is mostly likely gonna vaporize. The larger the volume of liquid, the more time you have to correct the problem. Hence Viscogel in 100kg chunks, and naptha in 30kg chunks, make great options.  Petro and crude in 300g chunks are way better than all forms of water in 30g chunks.  A tempshift plate, with 30 kg of naptha in the bottom tile, can help cool 300g of petro very rapidly, as the 625 multiplier for liquid/liquid interchange, along with the boost from a tempshift plate, can help offset a 1000C debri drop. If all you have is two forms of water, then your lock is doomed as soon as something too hot, or too cold, passes through. 

BEWARE of -20C metal gifted to you through the printing pod. It will decimate simple liquid locks made out of some form of water.

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BLACKBERREST3    233

In general, anything that comes into temperature transfer range that is above/below state change temperatures of the target material is in danger of whacky flashing mechanics (i.e energy doubling, flaking, etc.) I think energy doubling works a little differently however in that it is more stable when phase changing. Maybe someone with more knowledge can elaborate, this is one of those things that needs more testing along with aerodynamics and solid liquid bypasses.

me: Does this exploit work on all liquids-to-solids or just liquids-to-debris? What about other phase changes like Sublimation, Deposition, Vaporization, or Condensation? And are there differences between what type of material you use?

mathmanican: Only played with 3 liquid solid transfers. Tons more to explore here.

Spoiler

 

oh hey mathmanican's here.

2 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

I make mistakes all the time.

same

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