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About biopon

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  1. Mine could be scaled down, you can make it narrower and decrease the output but if you mess with the height, the efficiency comes down, meaning more heating and more cooling needed. Pre-space you have to get the most out of heat exchange between the gas, the input, and the output, and it takes a lot of room to do that effectively. (It helps to do this with supercoolant too, but it's far easier when you can put the gas into pipes.) Hm actually you could use steel pumps after the oil stage and pick up the gas, put it into radiant pipes, and make like half of the tower collapse, I'll tinker with that... It'll cost 1.5kW of power for the pumps, but if the whole thing gets a lot smaller, it'll be worth it. Gold amalgam would work too after the top turbines.
  2. Glad to see you're still here! Honestly, I saw your build and I figured your concept was fantastic, why try to be original? I think the only thing I'd mention is that you were not dealing with the sulphur. It's often overlooked (and often rightly so as it gets lost in the noise with thermium/SC ATs) but if you raise them up the tower you can easily get 100kDTU/s cooling from them on a 2 kg/sec build, possibly a lot more, and they don't hinder your pool's temperature either (they spawn at -163C so are an ever-growing nuisance). Oh, and the tempshift lines spaced 2 apart create temperature zones that greatly help the final result of the heat exchange.
  3. This. I was desperate for more acorns until I accidentally left a pip locked in with the trees. I never got a dupe to produce one on harvest, the pip made it rain like $100 bills in used car dealership commercials. No anything except labor... I have 218 trees for 5 generators and I'm running a healthy lumber surplus, but only because I dupe-harvest. Self-harvest for trees is 18 cycles, they're just not worth the space then.
  4. So I just realized why this isn't all that useful after all. It is kind of useful, but not that useful. The thing is, whatever you're trying to cool will end up at most 78-ish degrees (wherever ethanol actually pleases to condense.) And this is OK, but you have infinite, power positive cooling at 125 degrees from turbines (or even down to 95 degrees if you use their output, but this gets clunky if you need volume). So your sweet spot is 125->78, or even 95-78, what's that good for? Other than condensing cool steam? I guess you could use it to go heavy on aquatuners made out of gold amalgam before you get steel & plastics, that's actually not bad, but you'd need to use about half of the AT's output to cool itself.
  5. I put this together in sandbox, I'm about to build it in survival - can post details if there's interest. It also uses the 1kg/sec mechanic that the Neotuck build takes advantage of, but I get no external cooling whatsoever, and I'm pretty sure I still use less power. This is a prototype and the final one will be smaller (there's a lot on this picture that's not being used). Even though vertically it'll stay the same. The cooling is done with oil, methane and sulphur counterflow (final 2kg/sec natgas @ around 20 degrees C). More passive cooling with 2 steam turbines, and active cooling with an AT (pwater), and 7 thermo regulators (I built 11 but disabled 4). So all in, less than 3KW power needed to operate. Heating with a couple hundred grams a sec worth of magma-sourced rocks. Most materials are cheap; 95% of the tempshifts are granite, the diamond windows can be subbed with metal if needed. It's heavy on the aluminium though - I *think* most of it can be subbed with gold or iron as the build could do more than 2kg/sec as it is, but I'd have to split the outgoing methane into more pipes then, and I really don't feel like it. 22 natgas gens is probably going to tide me over until thermium. You can cool with thermo regulators, it's more efficient. I thought about running LOX in an AT as main coolant, but the only thing it's better in than a few thermo regulators is the space taken up. With an AT running LOX you get 118 dtu/sec/watt cooling, with a thermo reg running hydrogen you get 140. And it's easier to put together.
  6. That's a great analysis by @rezecib but weren't those rules relaxed quite a bit since? I know I can keep more than 6 deep water in sandstone. Sandstone in particular seems to start showing damage somewhere above 1700kg of water; you need a very tall column to achieve that.
  7. @Juggzor, thanks. That explains some of the general weirdness surrounding them. On a general note, I guess to better explain why I think this discovery is interesting, here's a real life example: a bog-standard cool steam condenser. The turbine was not connected to the power network, the coolant has been preconditioned to 20C and allowed to return to this temperature after the eruption. At this point the hydrogen consumed from the reservoir was measured. During one eruption cycle, the AT used 19.3kg of H2. Same conditions as for the standard setup, except the AT is cooling the ethanol gas, the geyser is heating the ethanol liquid with a separate loop, like so: One eruption cycle: 8.4kg H2 used. I tried measuring the crab cooler as well, but it wasn't able to return to 20C before the next cycle started, and that was the end of it. I suppose I should clarify that this isn't meant to be a precise measurement of the benefit you get from using that weird double-dip ethanol buffer. Controlled tests show an extra 45% cooling created from nothing when simply circulating two liquids against each other. 19.4kg vs 8.4kg H2 simply indicates that the ethanol buffer is very beneficial, but difference between the builds can account for some of that.
  8. Hm is that why this is getting so little interest? The thing is though, that crab cooler thing is not practical at all. It's a high-effort fun build but he's operating that aqautuner at full power with less than 10% efficiency. The concept above is 145% efficient; it gets water halfway to supercoolant in the right temperature band.
  9. Heating ethanol to gaseous state loses about 14% of the heat energy contained in it, as the gas SHC is lower. Cooling the gas takes less effort to phase it back to liquid, than heating it up. It's a nice scenario, but the SHC difference isn't very large, and the time and effort required to take advantage of it may not be worth it in the end. Or so I said to @avc15, seemingly crapping on the notion that he brought up. (Sorry, if it came across that way, I didn't mean to.) Anyway, I was playing with compact and efficient arrangements of liquid and gaseous ethanol, and stumbled upon a very interesting configuration that seems to cause multiple phase changes for the price of 2; massively boosting the ethanol bonus. Behold: It's just vacuum, some radiant pipes (with the top right segment above the opening being insulated - this is important), and 50kg/tile ethanol on the bottom row. I was running -0.1 degree water in the upper pipe from right to left, and 99.8 degree water in the lower pipe from the left to right. One very important detail is that the configuration needs some time to warm up; specifically, the airflow tiles themselves need to be comfortably above the ethanol phase change point. I've found 82 degrees and above to be golden. This may take a while as the ethanol mechanic is very actively fighting it, but once you break the barrier: My cold water output tank averaged to 8.9 degrees (up from 0.1), a gain of 376kDTU per 10kg packet. My hot water tank was at 86.7 degrees, a loss of 547kDTU per packet. A 45.5% boost to cooling efficiency. I think the following is happening: 50 degree-ish cool liquid ethanol is sitting atop the airflow tiles, condensing the steam coming from below, but eventually evaporating, and condensing back onto the airflow tiles. For some reason, it's not exchanging heat with the 100kg hot tile below, only with the gas within. It is very weird though: I never see ethanol steam near the top radiant pipes, ever. It's just vacuum there. The uses are obviously limited due to the temperature ranges, but partway cooling a pre-space sour gas boiler, or super efficiently harvesting cool steam - there are lots of possibilities. I'd love to know what you guys think of the actual mechanics involved. I'm only guessing about the liquid layer proccing multiple phase changes, but how else do you explain a 45% increase in efficiency, when you can't even get half of that normally?
  10. That piping is terrible! You have two tiles that have no pipes on them. You need to work on those ASAP, I'm sure the AT will like it more. On a serious note, and you're not going to like it, but is there any way to use a reservoir as a buffer? It makes things so much easier. Automation timings don't always line up with the game. Filters filter and buffers buffer, keeping sort of to the time requested, and then game objects take a while to respond to them; this latter seems asynchronous but could very well just be a multithread delay. In other words, the time you put into a filter/buffer is going to be that much, or a bit more. I've never seen it to be less, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. Two buffer/not oscillators started with the same trigger will drift away pretty quickly, pretty significantly.
  11. There have been tons of topics on the subject, and many guide videos as well. For the latter I would recommend the one by John Francis, but google around a bit, there's a lot out there. For what it's worth I think this one is simpler and better than most: Petroleum drips out at 113 degrees, the radiant pipes are aluminium, and the temp sensor is set to 405C. On the other side of the door in the upper left corner is your heat source; I use hot rocks but it's up to you. No space mats used, not even steel. (Ok the mech door is steel for better conductivity, but it doesn't have to be with tempshifts on both sides.)
  12. With a .1 gram drip it essentially is, once you fill the feeding pipe.
  13. Yeah that's the point. You want cheap tempshifts in the rocket bay to allow for that heat push to spread into a lot of material, and prevent it from superheating the already toasty steam emissions. (What you make the tempshifts out of depends on the emission amount, which I don't know - but if igneous isn't safe, obsidian certainly is, even though I'd strongly prefer the former for the 5x heat cap.) You can then make all wires and stuff out of steel and still be safe by a very wide margin. My asteroid only had 8 tons of wolframite on it, so tungsten for this purpose would be a huge luxury, but fortunately also unnecessary.
  14. This is an oldish thread and I only found it very recently but I have to agree with @flapee's sentiment: are you kidding me? A 0-power, compact replacement to a door pump that also happens to be faster? This is an absolutely huge discovery. Granted it's gas-only and has a limited (but still wide) temperature band, but I've used it to much success in the following scenarios: - Natgas geyser harvesting into storage - Pumping out o2 from a pwater->clay farm, and keeping it working at max efficiency - Harvesting hot steam vent (500C) emissions to be processed by the optimal number of turbines at 100% uptime - Vacuuming out rooms for big magma-related projects, and now actually vacuuming out the entire asteroid because why the hell not. I love that this is actually safe versus backflow even if your drip stops, unlike the EZ-Bead pump. The 1000kg limit is not that hard to work with. At least door pumps still have a use and you promote diversity in solutions.
  15. They were not. They were doing the opposite of what you wanted, which (I think) is a gradual exchange of heat across that length of the pipe. To do that, leave 2 tiles between tempshifts so their area of effect does not overlap - and for the love of God, don't let your tempshifts affect your insulated tiles, especially like you were doing here; one insulated tile affected by 3 tempshifts, each supposedly trying to maintain its own temperature zone. By the way, in a situation like this (one material in a pipe, the other in the cell), tempshifts don't do anything to speed up heat exchange between pipe & contents and pipe & cell. Their only function would be to help maintain a certain temperature in themselves and the cells they affect.