JeanLucky Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 I think @inferjus4 said it best: Maxwell is a very interesting concept, yet isn't utilized to his highest potential. And so, I spent a couple of hours thinking and reading through different ideas people have had; and here is what I, and others in the community, have come up with. I apologise if this is a headache to read, I've tried to format it in the most pleasant way possible but apologies if it still sucks. Shadow Duelists Spoiler I think most people can agree, the Shadow Duelists aren't exactly the most useful. Aside from an exploit you could do, there wasn't much point to ever use them. EDIT: After talking with @Lakurius (he's gonna get annoyed if I keep mentioning him) I have found out Shadow Duelists can actually serve a purpose at higher level of experience with other strategies including permafreezing thanks to their additional dps. However, for the majority of players they still remain fairly underwhelming. Fortunately, a bunch of people have thought about this problem and here are some of the best solutions I found: (Credit to @ShadowDuelist ironic) - Shadow Duelist - Cost increased to 3 fuel - 40% basic damage resistance against non-player enemies - Shadow Boomeranger - Slow attack rate - Stands still when throwing a boomerang and waiting to return This is a fairly simple yet elegant solution. It makes the original shadow duelist a bit beefier which helps as well as introducing another versatile troop which could be used. Imo, 40% may be too low, but that may just be because I can be biased towards making Maxwell OP, so this could be a balanced solution to the problem while making Maxwell more fun to play. (Credit to @StarvedKasad and @Diaboliko) - Shadow Duelist - Copies users movement and attacks, literally a shadow - Reduced Damage - Costs a percentage of maximum health (30%?) instead of sanity to make While more difficult to implement, this seems like a more fun and potentially more strategic approach to the Duelist. Having almost like another player attacking with you in unison at the cost of maximum health would benefit the more experienced players and add another layer of depth to combat. Knowing that an AoE attack could wipe out all your duelists (and potentially you) would make battles more interesting. A duellist that doesn't kite would also increase its dps and could help with killing things like Beefalo and other relatively slow attacking/single targetting creatures. Perhaps having a method of enabling and disabling kiting would be good? Any other good ideas posted under this thread I shall add here as an edit: Other Shadow Workers Spoiler I think we can agree, Maxwell shouldn't be better at collecting Wood than Woodie, however resource gathering is a key feature of Maxwell so if the rework of Woodie re-establishes him as the prime wood collector, there needs to be something for Maxwell to fall back on. EDIT: Maxwell actually technically already has the fastest method of collecting wood since with 4 loggers and 1 digger there will always be wood for Maxwell to collect making it the most efficient. Thanks to @Lakurius for pointing this out. (Credit to @S19TealPenguin) S19 suggested that Maxwell be more a stay-at-home resource collector while Woodie be more of an adventurer resource collector. - Efficiency of Workers increases in the presence of magic - +10% Chopping/Mining Speed during Night - +25% Speed during Full Moon - +15% for every level of nearby Night Light (Very good idea) - +75% in Ruins His idea also extended the boost to Shadow Duelists, with the percentage being applied as additional damage. Which could also be a good idea. This would give Woodie a stronger early game, while benefitting Maxwell more late game. Something I noticed when playing as Maxwell: - Shadow Diggers often target the same tree stump when clearing out a large deforested area, have them always target different ones to increase efficiency. (Credit to @Frashaw27) - When wearing a Nightmare Amulet/Bone Helm, increase the efficiency of the workers by 25% - Also suggested this to go up to 50% when wearing both. (Potentially overpowered in combination with S19's suggestion) - A way to control how they act. When you summon a puppet, there will be a new command center of 3 buttons that are near the equipment slots. - "Free", the way they behave currently, doing whatever they please as long as they are near Maxwell, - "Close", Puppets follow you more closely and only perform their action when you perform it yourself - "Codex", Puppets will perform their actions within 3 tiles of a Codex Umbra that is laying on the ground Codex Umbra Spoiler Maxwell's exclusive item, the device trapped him in the Constant to begin with, could be improved upon and be made more interesting. (Inspiration from @Canis) - When performing a task (e.g. Chopping down a tree, Mining a rock, killing a mob or digging up a stump/grave), have small chance (1% - 5%) to learn a random magic recipe (like a blueprint) that will be available from the Codex. I think a lot of people want to see something more creative done with the Codex Umbra, and while a random aspect to Maxwell may not be the most 'fun' idea, this does give a concept for what could be done with the Codex and gives a direction in which it can head. As a whole I think a lot of people want the Codex to be upgraded in ways. (Credit to @ALotOfPeople) - Give Maxwell all the Tier 1 Magic recipes similar to how Wickerbottom has all the Tier 1 Science recipes. This is an interesting idea, but could be strong considering it would enable him to many strong items such as the life giving amulet, meat effigy etc... However it does fit with his lore very well so maybe it should be included. (Credit to @Frashaw27) - Have Maxwell be more adept at using Magic Items. - For staves, armor, and weapons, using them for 1/2 the durability and only uses 1/2 of the sanity loss (exception is Dark Sword and Night Armor). For amulets and wearables, all of them will lose durability at 1/2 of the rate of other character (life giving amulet will still break upon using a revive). Finally, if you refuel a item with Nightmare fuel, it will be refueled with 2x efficiency. As for skins, I think a lot of us want Maxwell with that coat from Adventure Mode mostly. Talk about dapper! -------------------------------------------------------------- Anyways, Thanks for reading through some of these ideas, if you have any other good ideas, comment them here and I will add them to the thread. Hope your day goes (Max)well. (I'm not sorry) EDIT: After being enlightened about the ways of the Maxwell I changed a couple parts of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axelocke Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 I love this! I especially like the different levels of control. I enjoyed the shadows in the Gorge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanLucky Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 When you see Maxwell mains reacting confused to your post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minespatch Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, JeanLucky said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluschi-Cal Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 please dont change shadow duelists klei i will cry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Safety Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 They need to make it so you can make a shadow be deactivated without being destroyed. Like just make them idle by right clicking on them or something. Plus maybe some other puppets like a chester and one that holds a torch around Maxwell. Honestly I see Max as pretty balanced right now. They need to buff Woodie to make him superior at wood gathering. As for Maxwell's duelist, I'm okay with them being bad, as in a team composition he should not be in the fray. That makes Woodie a gatherer who can also take on a fighting roll (perhaps tank with beaver in the future?), while Maxwell is an all around gatherer who should only fight under certain conditions using magic stuff, given his sanity gain. However, if Maxwell must fight, here is what I would do: Make duelists not awful. Maybe change the AI or something Make a Shadow Tank (2 nightmare fuel, 1 Football helmet) who has increased aggro chance and also has 85% damage resistance with passive healing. That way Maxwell won't be taking the hits if he is prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanLucky Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 13 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said: They need to make it so you can make a shadow be deactivated without being destroyed. Like just make them idle by right clicking on them or something. Plus maybe some other puppets like a chester and one that holds a torch around Maxwell. Honestly I see Max as pretty balanced right now. They need to buff Woodie to make him superior at wood gathering. As for Maxwell's duelist, I'm okay with them being bad, as in a team composition he should not be in the fray. That makes Woodie a gatherer who can also take on a fighting roll (perhaps tank with beaver in the future?), while Maxwell is an all around gatherer who should only fight under certain conditions using magic stuff, given his sanity gain. However, if Maxwell must fight, here is what I would do: Make duelists not awful. Maybe change the AI or something Make a Shadow Tank (2 nightmare fuel, 1 Football helmet) who has increased aggro chance and also has 85% damage resistance with passive healing. That way Maxwell won't be taking the hits if he is prepared. Having the duellist tank by not kiting has been something Ive seen people suggest, and while a Torchbearer may serve as almost like an early game miner hat, I think it would mostly be a waste of nightmare fuel. A chester-like shadow is interesting but seems unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDuelist Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Dr. Safety said: Make duelist not awful Yeah! Wait what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me real life Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 5 hours ago, JeanLucky said: I feel like this description of Maxwell is a little silly. It's a plot point that Maxwell lost the majority of his shadow powers after getting off the throne, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russian_Philin Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Spoiler 6 hours ago, Sunset Skye said: I feel like this description of Maxwell is a little silly. It's a plot point that Maxwell lost the majority of his shadow powers after getting off the throne, after all. He may have lost a lot of his shadow powers, but he has the Codex Umbra. With the help of it,logically, he can enhance his shadow magic and abilities. All the more have Maxwell in DS there is amethyst-this hint, that he can strengthen their forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradyne Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 The shadow puppet improvements from Rezecib's mod would be a great start. Basic QoL changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantdeletethis Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 how about setting location on map for puppets to go alone&do things automatically? maxwell is the person who controls them,not babysitting them in close range puppets gonna have 4 inventory slot each, come back to maxwell when their job is done (full inventory/with requested amount of items) 14 hours ago, JeanLucky said: S19 suggested that Maxwell be more a stay-at-home resource collector while Woodie be more of an adventurer resource collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanLucky Posted August 1, 2019 Author Share Posted August 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Poebus said: how about setting location on map for puppets to go alone&do things automatically? maxwell is the person who controls them,not babysitting them in close range puppets gonna have 4 inventory slot each, come back to maxwell when their job is done (full inventory/with requested amount of items) Interesting idea, but I think that would be an inefficient way of getting wood as now the puppets would waste time picking each item up before moving onto the next tree. Not to mention that their inventory space could be filled with something like pine cones. It would also make Maxwell a more bland and boring characteri imo. So while it may mean you save time because you can collect wood while doing something else, ultimately you are wasting time because you are wasting nightmare fuel that you will end up having to spend time farming later. Interesting suggestion though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be2014 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 I like all your ideas. I want a rework of Max. I never use the shadow duelists they are useless like you have said. This is my idea How about Mega Max when he is insane? Early game he eats mushrooms. Later the Shadow armor or Bone Helm to get buffed. Another Max could gain health at night. So he would be op in the caves. Just some more ideas to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradyne Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 As much as I want Smackswell to be canon...being personally stronk isn't really in his theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minespatch Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 6 hours ago, maradyne said: As much as einI want Smackswell to be canon...bg personally stronk isn't really in his theme. Sneaky is his m.o. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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