SixbySix Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 Nosh sprouts body temp max is 32 (f) degrees. Water freezes at that point. its going to make growing them domestically really difficult. I guess you could hand water them, but even then they would like get to warm to grow. Thoughts? -6x6 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 10 minutes ago, SixbySix said: Nosh sprouts body temp max is 32 (f) degrees. Water freezes at that point. its going to make growing them domestically really difficult. I guess you could hand water them, but even then they would like get to warm to grow. Thoughts? -6x6 Sleet Wheat has a similar problem, though, yeah.. not quite as bad. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixbySix Posted June 29, 2019 Author Share Posted June 29, 2019 i'm ok with sleet wheat at 41 degrees. Its hard but doable. 32 degrees give you zero margin for error. I guess its a challenge! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxCD Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 46 minutes ago, SixbySix said: i'm ok with sleet wheat at 41 degrees. Its hard but doable. 32 degrees give you zero margin for error. I guess its a challenge! You can feed them with a bit higher temp. Just keep in mind then you'll have to cool a bit more the farm tiles, whether it is from the gas above, or (better) from the below (cooled metal tiles). Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightinggale Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, OxCD said: Just keep in mind then you'll have to cool a bit more the farm tiles, whether it is from the gas above, or (better) from the below (cooled metal tiles). Wheezeworts are excellent for tasks like this.... oh wait... WAS excellent. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sktzofreak101 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 When I started sleet farming I had similar issues, but what I settled on was cooling the room colder than the plant needs (with method of choice) and sending in warm water to the plants. Havent tested with the new plant but I'm sure it'd work the same. Basically just like OxCD said, the temp of the farm tile is what matters most. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Promethien Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Beans are freaking awful. Comparing to sleet wheat. Temp range: Wheat -55 to 5, Bean -25 to 0 Growth time: Wheat 18 cycles, Bean 21 cycles Upkeep: Wheat 20kg water/cycle and 5kg dirt/cycle, Bean 1kg phosphorite/cycle and 35kg water/cycle Output compared to cost to make 5 quality food: Wheat 18/harvest 10/pepper bread, Bean 12/harvest 12/spicy tofu Lets see here. Higher upkeep, longer growth time, for fewer calories and a more difficult temperature requirement to meet. Beans aren't just worse if you crunch the numbers and do a close comparison. They are worse in every possible metric and by a lot. I would love if the designer behind this would chime in on what they were thinking. If you are going to create an alternative it needs to have trade offs. Like its harder to keep in its temp range but it produces more food per resource input. Although I'd say sleet wheat would be thematically the harder one to keep happy. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 For those of us that use a scale that actually makes sense, what's that in Celcius? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
goboking Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Promethien said: I would love if the designer behind this would chime in on what they were thinking. They were probably thinking that the rust biome needed native flora and fauna to be consistent with other biomes. I'm not sure why the rust biome needs to be as cold as it is, but the fact that dreckos are freezing to death before we reach rust biomes and these beans are so difficult to grow tells me that another pass is needed. I'll add this; I actually think I'd prefer if the rust biome was barren of life (unless they want to add a cockroach-esque critter that eats iron and outputs rust). Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightinggale Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Yunru said: For those of us that use a scale that actually makes sense, what's that in Celcius? Wheat -55 to 5 is -55 C to 5 C. Bean -25 to 0 is -25 C to 0 C. Part of the problem is that beans require water, but also needs to be at a temperature where water freezes. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Ok the beans need some tuning for sure. The water requirement seems weird. A rust biome doesn`t sound like something where there would be water. And the random phosphorite again. This looks like an awful lot of placeholders. Why wouldn`t it at least be salt water? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightinggale Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, Sasza22 said: Why wouldn`t it at least be salt water? Because apart from the salt water geyser, salt water isn't renewable. We need a way to turn water+salt into salt water before it would make sense to use it as a requirement like that. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
natanstarke Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Sasza22 said: Ok the beans need some tuning for sure. The water requirement seems weird. A rust biome doesn`t sound like something where there would be water. And the random phosphorite again. This looks like an awful lot of placeholders. Why wouldn`t it at least be salt water? Salt water and the biome/ requirement being like 10c would be better overall in other regards in okay with it being worst than sleet in every way just the requiriments that its not, also there should be more chlorine in rust biomes and this biome definetly needs a critter of its own. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machenoid Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 With the required temperature of the plant being below the freezing point of water, just make sure the water being fed into the hydroponics tile can not sit idle inside the pipe or the hydroponics tile. Use pipe valves to feed only how much water the plant needs per cycle, which is 35000g/600 seconds = rounding down: 58 grams. This way the plant will immediately absorb the water and it won't be allowed to freeze in the pipe or the hydroponics tile, or interact with their temperatures too much. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassyfo Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 They should just change nosh to use polluted (or salt?) water. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
screepka Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 how about to supply water in a loop with a pipe valve (less than 1 kg / s). pipes will not break. You can cool the farm in any way. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, screepka said: how about to supply water in a loop with a pipe valve (less than 1 kg / s). pipes will not break. You can cool the farm in any way. And when it builds up because of the loop? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
screepka Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 why should the loop be filled? 10kg will be only in two sections of the pipe. but if in doubt, for example, you can make a loop through the tank. the valve can be installed 60g / s * number of plants Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafker Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 What about the output? I find it quite ridiculous that you need 12 bean sprouts to keep up 1 dupe for it's growth cycle (with some left) Wouldn't be so bad, except it would cost 9t of water (comparing to Bristle Berry consuming 720 kg in its growth cycle (or 3t convertinng it to beans' growth cycle). + additional phosporite (all assuming average dupe's consumption rate is 2000kk) I hope my math didnt break halfway Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkin Coaled Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 or you can run some polluted water through two parallel sieves (5kg/s each) to normalize its temperature to a known value and pass the resulting clean water through 3 inline aquatuners (for a resulting drop of -42 degrees). and it will happily still be liquid because the world of ONI does not support exactly the real world state change mechanics. your challenge really is keeping your farm just above -3 and right below 0. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonEmpire Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 not sure how a rust biome is going to maintain its temperature if they don't have worts naturally grown there. over time, it will just heat up. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 hour ago, screepka said: why should the loop be filled? 10kg will be only in two sections of the pipe. but if in doubt, for example, you can make a loop through the tank. the valve can be installed 60g / s * number of plants Why wouldn't it fill? If you need a loop then you'll have an excess going through said loop, which then has more added to it by the bridge. Oh wait, just caught where the valve is. In that case why have a loop at all? You just risk it backing up. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolthulhu Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 How to grow beans, in order of relevance: Don't, grow wheat instead Wild-grow them to avoid paying the ridiculous cost of 180kg of water per 1000kcal (that's without adding cost of pinchas) and to skip on expensive water cooling Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustardWarrior Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 12 hours ago, Promethien said: Beans are freaking awful. Comparing to sleet wheat. Temp range: Wheat -55 to 5, Bean -25 to 0 Growth time: Wheat 18 cycles, Bean 21 cycles Upkeep: Wheat 20kg water/cycle and 5kg dirt/cycle, Bean 1kg phosphorite/cycle and 35kg water/cycle Output compared to cost to make 5 quality food: Wheat 18/harvest 10/pepper bread, Bean 12/harvest 12/spicy tofu Lets see here. Higher upkeep, longer growth time, for fewer calories and a more difficult temperature requirement to meet. Beans aren't just worse if you crunch the numbers and do a close comparison. They are worse in every possible metric and by a lot. I would love if the designer behind this would chime in on what they were thinking. If you are going to create an alternative it needs to have trade offs. Like its harder to keep in its temp range but it produces more food per resource input. Although I'd say sleet wheat would be thematically the harder one to keep happy. I was expecting these beans to replace pincha peppernuts for the espresso machine. Which I think is a good idea. But apparently that didn't turn out to be true. I mean I guess if you have no cold biomes on your map or maybe they consider dirt to be scarce enough to justify it. Maybe they should just introduce a mechanic whereby dupes get sick of having the same meal too many times in a row. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
screepka Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 32 minutes ago, Yunru said: Oh wait, just caught where the valve is. In that case why have a loop at all? You just risk it backing up. If you give the plants water even 58g / s and suddenly the plant "turns off" because of the temperature or another accident happens, the water in the pipe will be in excess and begin to accumulate. then it must be withdrawn. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/108133-growing-nosh-sprouts/#findComment-1216860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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