mathmanican

The Liquid Bead Gas Pump (Bead Pump), or The Reverse Sprengel Pump

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0xFADE    272

Waterfall pump sounds good. Trying to be descriptive with less words.

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mathmanican    546
2 hours ago, 0xFADE said:

Waterfall pump sounds good. Trying to be descriptive with less words.

I would love to go this way, but if you use these words, then people confuse this pump with the escher waterfall, which is a very different mechanic. 

Does "Bead pump" work?  It's short and says exactly what's going on.  The full name would be "Liquid Bead Gas Pump" to signify that it is a liquid bead that pumps gas.  And then we just use "Bead Pump" for short.  Here are some other things I've thought of:

  • Droplet pump (Maybe)
  • "the drip effect that push gases up if you drip liquids on a wall using the conflict between 2 liquids" or "tdetpguiydloawutcb2l", from @tzionut
  • Bead Pump (short, simple)
  • Liquid Bead Pump (makes you think it pumps liquid.... wrong)
  • Liquid Bead Gas Pump (long)
  • Waterfall Pump (makes people think it pumps water using gas, not pumps gas using water, and gets the wrong principle in your head. 
  • ....?  I'd love someone to come up with a snazzy great name. For now I like bead pump best of all. 
2 hours ago, beowulf2010 said:

I may not use some of these major exploits, but damn is it fun watching you all break the game. :D

I want to put about 50 laugh icons on this one. I'm glad that this provides someone enjoyment.  I'm guessing there are also plenty out there that have put me on their "ignore" list, because they're sick and tired of all my exploit post.

I'd stop, but I can't stop.  This is way too much fun. 

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beowulf2010    177
34 minutes ago, mathmanican said:

I'd stop, but I can't stop.  This is way too much fun. 

Please don't. I'm in the camp of "break it till they fix it". I just wish I had more time to contribute to breaking things. Keep up the good work. 

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goatt    128

Hey professor, what do you mean by “bead gas gas gas”, “bead gas gas”, and “bead gas”, where to look for the pattern at game pause?

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goatt    128

Another question: is this kind of rapid element swapping heavy to CPU?

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Yunru    303

Honestly, I don't try and control it (and with an Escher Pump, can't really), I just have airlock doors cut off access for the gas.

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mathmanican    546
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, goatt said:

Hey professor, what do you mean by “bead gas gas gas”, “bead gas gas”, and “bead gas”, where to look for the pattern at game pause?

Let me know if this is enough (this is the perfect "bead, gas, bead, gas" alternating pattern)

b.png.fe79c12440c3f5524b8600b86972cdf4.png

39 minutes ago, goatt said:

Another question: is this kind of rapid element swapping heavy to CPU?

Tile swapping happens all the time every tick of the game, so I doubt this adds any extra computation time to the code. This is probably less computation intensive than regular pumps, because you don't have to compute heat interactions with pipes. 

Edited by mathmanican
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tzionut    198
Posted (edited)

A very good post. Like @SamLogan series of how to. I like it. Maybe when you finish the post "how tho break ONI" using every exploits still not fixed devs will put more time in GQ (quality of the game) and fix them. It's every one choice if want's to use them or not. It's a single player game, and i think it will stay this way.

Best regards.

Edited by tzionut
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mathmanican    546
5 minutes ago, tzionut said:

A very good post. Like @SamLogan series of how to.

I was actually going to call it "The liquid bead pump: Everything you need to know", but decided against it near the end.  I'm not sure that @SamLogan wants these exploit posts to be attached to his series, so I backed off. This also means I'll need a new title for my post in progress on collecting the exploits. 

8 minutes ago, tzionut said:

Maybe when you finish the post "how tho break ONI" using every exploits still not fixed devs will put more time in GQ (quality of the game) and fix them.

There's currently so many bugs that could use attention. I figure that such a post (hopefully by the end of the week), with tons of links to help track things down, will help them rapidly isolate issues. Otherwise, they have to do all the work I'm doing. The difference is that I'm having a blast doing it for free, laughing all the way, whereas they'll probably be stressed out the whole time. Someone might as well enjoy tracking the bugs down for fun,  organizing them, categorizing them, and rating their severity. 

Time to go buy some PIE for the kids.  Happy PI day all. 

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mathmanican    546

@Yunru, I thought you would like this find, as it relates to your comment over in this post.  The pump definitely is not completely symmetric. I was trying to make a new airlock and ran into this:

5c8b2f1aa233d_Screenshotfrom2019-03-1422-50-09.thumb.png.7c33f2d0b36c799dcb5ecdb9d85789c7.png

Both valves are set the same. I can't get the beads to form either on the left side, even if I add the extra tile, provided the room is in a vacuum. Resetting the valve does nothing while in vacuum.

5c8b30d440f03_Screenshotfrom2019-03-1422-52-37.thumb.png.dd65f2f3191c71987b553d83a568c1e8.png

I added gas, and deleted the extra tile to find that the right side forms bead, but the left does not. 

5c8b30d088fb1_Screenshotfrom2019-03-1422-55-27.thumb.png.2133e0b0c26232538186d04e6aee4e18.png

Adding the extra tile did nothing either. 

5c8b30cc29717_Screenshotfrom2019-03-1422-56-00.thumb.png.8a43d5b82d235bab9282399b2b119e68.png

However, if I reset the valve to 0, then turn it back on, the beads form on both sides. Interesting mechanics.  They are clearly NOT symmetric. Thanks for your comment.

5c8b30c865715_Screenshotfrom2019-03-1422-57-00.thumb.png.c9d3ef8cd4c3fcae5e06c7b065d85ef2.png

Oh, and once you delete the extra tile, guess what... the trail forms again, but only on the left. And the blob of crude oil you see in the bottom - it came from the left side, not the right.

5c8b33dc34266_Screenshotfrom2019-03-1423-10-36.thumb.png.85487458f5fff0af1070073442a2859b.png

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nakomaru    100

If a trail forms (B B B B pattern) when dropping left, is it simply twice as efficient? Split the inlet in half (loop half around) and give it intermittent flow for a bead pump, maybe.

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Yunru    303

This is the smallest I could make it:

image.thumb.png.3f815dac0075c198b3c9eba75d987f5c.png

The valve is set to 1g/s, and the hydro sensor is set to turn on when it's below whatever causes it to flow:

Petroleum: 1kg

Water/Super Coolant: 0.2kg

 

Fun fact: Viscogel never spreads sideways, only up.

 

EDIT: New smallest:

image.thumb.png.a03852ae77f736ba9cca403f30bc1358.png 

Edited by Yunru
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Yunru    303

@mathmanican Something is going on here. This design:

image.thumb.png.f46952802938edff9b28f7af8a4c30f8.png

Holds steady with 2 airflow tiles to the right, gains with 3, and loses with 1. The design before, however gains with 2.

O_o

 

EDIT: Actually it seems to be dependent on the pressure above somehow.

EDIT 2: Okay, I have no idea what's going on. This is somehow pumping the above to the side:

image.thumb.png.2e1b8a86fbcb37c6123c0b98db351911.png

Edit 3: Think it's all to do with where the vacuum tiles form. 

Edited by Yunru
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OxCD    12
On 14/03/2019 at 10:01 PM, beowulf2010 said:

I may not use some of these major exploits, but damn is it fun watching you all break the game. :D

I was about to say the same. I'm mostly playing "legit" ONI, but still I'm having guilty pleasure to see how you all are dissecting what was simple game mechanics into pure exploit ^^

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Yunru    303

It's no more an exploit than manipulating the forces of down-draft to make a lump of refined metals fly.

The game's physics are just a bit simpler than real life's is all.

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0xFADE    272

This is a completely valid use of game mechanics.  Exploits are technically also completely valid uses of game mechanics.  The level of distinction falls completely on the user to decide.  I'd place the difference to something that can be accomplished without using the exploit. 

Can you turn one gas in to another?  No.  Exploit.

Can you pump gas from one place to another.  Yes, doing it differently is a clever use of game mechanics.

 

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mathmanican    546

I guess intonation and  puns are hard to get across online. Definitions:

  • legit - short for legitimate, as in "legit ONI"
  • legit - modern slang synonym for "cool", "awesome", etc., as in "Aren't these exploits legit?"

I'd prefer not to enter another debate about whether something is an exploit, bug, feature, etc.  :)  I'll be the first to confess that most of my work is legitimately an exploit, but man it's legit. 

For now, it's just sheer fun to take what we're given and break it as much as possible. When we know how to break something, we can aim to build the unbreakable. 

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Zarquan    529

I would argue that this isn't an exploit any more than having a vacuum with a water lock access point.  I mean, you can do this in real life to a point (but the other way around). 

Sprengel pumps are real and they use a very similar mechanism, but in the other direction.  The Sprengel pump is even a percentage based pump IRL, but the limiting factor is vapor pressure and pressure differentials, which simply don't exist in ONI.  For those who don't know, they work by dripping mercury down a tube and catching atmosphere bubbles and pulling them down.  It can achieve 0.001 Pascals of pressure, where 1 atmosphere is 101,325 Pascals.

Also, everything is an exploit.  As a simple real world example, using gravity and the way solids work, I exploit a hollowed out cylinder with a covered bottom to hold liquid water without it spilling everywhere.  I can also manipulate the cylinder to have the water fall in an orderly fashion in to my mouth.  We don't think about it that way, but it is an exploit of real world physics and, if we were in a universe where surface tension caused water to climb up the glass (like liquid helium does IRL), then the "Earth Simulator" game forums would be full of people asking the devs to fix that whole "cup exploit" and say they play legit runs without exploits.  They would say "It makes liquid storage far too easy, you just put it in a cup and it will stay there for a very long time without making a mess and giving the humans the soggy feet debuff."

This is why I think the game should work for consistency rather than realism.  This pump is consistent with the rules of the ONI universe and, as a bonus, it has a real world equivalent, so it is completely fine.  It is fine because this is how the physics happen to work and it is the ONLY reasonable way is machine could operate given the fundamental laws of ONI physics (mainly the 1 tile rule and the liquid gas swapping rule).  The laws of physics would have to change at a fundamental level for this not to work.  Some features of the ONI universe are not consistent, like the factories that produce resources out of nothing, and it would be best if they were made to be consistent (i.e. removed).

Now, I am not opposed to removing infinite storage from the game.  The way I would do it is make it so if the pressure got too high, surrounding tiles would instantly break.  Like, anything next to a 10000 kg liquid or gas tile that blocks the gas's expansion breaks immediately and there is no way around it.  I would have doors and airflow tiles break too.  (The exact number could be on a per-element basis).  It would be a rule addition that is consistent with the rest of the game.

XKCD had a good comic about this recently:

It's like someone briefly joined the team running the universe, introduced their idea for a cool mechanic, then left, and now everyone is stuck pretending that this wildly unbalanced dynamic makes sense.

(mouseover text: It's like someone briefly joined the team running the universe, introduced their idea for a cool mechanic, then left, and now everyone is stuck pretending that this wildly unbalanced dynamic makes sense.)

Edited by Zarquan
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