Allow us to boil water with tapidizer

[Technoincubus]

Water boiling was known since neolithic times yet we couldn't do it in ONI without using exploits.

We cannot boil water with a tool for water heating.

We can boil it by using workarounds like aquatuners or magma or volcanoes etc.

It is like hammering nails with microscope.

The only way to boil water with tapidizer is t use some exploits with neverending clicking sounds of automation.

What is the reason to forbid water boiling by tapidizer? Why force players to invent huge installations for such a simple task as water boiling?

[Tab1]

Yeah it seems like a basic concept. I also dont get why it isnt allowed?

[biopon]

3 hours ago, Technoincubus said:

some exploits

Think of them as enhancements?

3 hours ago, Technoincubus said:

neverending clicking sounds of automation

You can limit those to the automation overlay in options.

3 hours ago, Technoincubus said:

installations for such a simple task as water boiling

If there's any reason behind it, it's probably to make getting steam for the first rocket harder?

I'm not disagreeing with you btw. I wouldn't mind if the tepidizer was less gimped. I'm just pointing out that not every creative use of a mechanic is a dirty exploit that needs to be shunned.

[Jigsawn]

I mean it is called a tepidiser, not a kettle. The clue's in the name. Not that I disagree though.

[Tab1]

57 minutes ago, Jigsawn said:

I mean it is called a tepidiser, not a kettle. The clue's in the name. Not that I disagree though.

For 1000W it should be able to make holy water not just steam.

[Sasza22]

I wish it had an "allow boiling" checkbox. Then it would go up to 220^oC (just below steam turbine operation temperature) but still turn off if there is no liquid around. You could heat up steam using oil but making a turbine work would require an external source of heat.

[tzionut]

If you put a pulse you can boil anything. start and stop for 3 seconds....the clasic not - buffer- filter 

[FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX]

8 hours ago, Technoincubus said:

The only way

The only way One of the ways 

 

Tepidizer is the most efficiency heater in the game, even stronger than aquatuner. My ideal tepidizer should have lower heating power (at least lower than aquatuner) with no temperature limit.

[a3r]

 

5 hours ago, biopon said:

You can limit those to the automation overlay in options.

OH. MY. GOD.

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart!

[ishakaru]

So, in the last couple of days I did some math... Tepidizers generate energy. If you could harness the raw DTU's it puts out you can run a turbine with no other heat source.  

 

(226.9C-151.8C)*4*10000=3,004,000 joules. Since this happens per second, you can just say watts. The output power is 2k of course giving an efficiency ratio of ~0.07%. With all but 1 port blocked we are looking at 600,800 watts, bumping up the efficiency to 0.33%. Real world counterparts are in the 40% range.

5 ports open on a turbine: 2.7 aquatuners running super coolant, 0.73 tepidizer.

Or 5 turbines 1 port open, 3 Aquatuners(sc) running full time, tepidizer running full time, 20 gas pumps, will net you 640w. Use door pumps instead for an additional 4800w.

[ChickenMadness]

using an Aquatuner is just like a normal radiator system though. I don't see it as an exploit.

[Xuhybrid]

1000 vs 1200 power cost when one barely functions at the task of creating heat and the other is highly effective at moving heat from something, to something else. Aquatuner doesn't just burn power to create heat, it also lets you remove heat from things. So remind me why the tepidizer exists? Does it have a single purpose?

[JohnFrancis]

2 hours ago, Xuhybrid said:

So remind me why the tepidizer exists? Does it have a single purpose?

Once you don't need the ice biomes anymore it's a very efficient way to melt entire ice biomes for water. Tried doing it with 75 watt heaters, 40 tons of 400+ degree igneous rock, was taking way to long. Tepidizer a chunk of the ice biome for a cycle and boom problem solved.

[goatt]

On 2/22/2019 at 9:56 AM, ishakaru said:

giving an efficiency ratio of ~0.07%

I find it funny and irony. That’s why people say it’s only for heat sink.

9 hours ago, Xuhybrid said:

So remind me why the tepidizer exists? Does it have a single purpose?

+1, pls I wanna know too lol

7 hours ago, JohnFrancis said:

a very efficient way to melt entire ice biomes for water.

 Ok....

[Sasza22]

On 22.02.2019 at 4:56 PM, ishakaru said:

(226.9C-151.8C)*4*10000=3,004,000 joules. Since this happens per second, you can just say watts. The output power is 2k of course giving an efficiency ratio of ~0.07%. With all but 1 port blocked we are looking at 600,800 watts, bumping up the efficiency to 0.33%. Real world counterparts are in the 40% range.

I think that might be the effect of heating machines being super effective in transfering or producing heat. With a realistic effciency the turbine would easily allow for perpetum mobile devices.

[avc15]

There's a technical problem with the game simulation, getting in the way of your tepidizer boiling the water it's submerged in.

There's no latent heat of vaporization. So what it means is, nothing will boil, all your water will be sitting there at 101-102C for a while, and then it would all suddenly flash to steam.

I have seen the results while baking oil to petrol in an enclosed tank. It's.... pretty gnarly. I think in this case, just taking away the temperature limits would generator a whole new set of complaints that they're not equipped to deal with. To fix it properly, Klei would have to add latent heat for phase changes.

 

[mathmanican]

On 2/22/2019 at 8:56 AM, ishakaru said:

Tepidizers generate energy. If you could harness the raw DTU's it puts out you can run a turbine with no other heat source. 

Yep.  Been done by several. Follow this link for an example, as well as discussion about it. 

 

On 2/22/2019 at 8:21 AM, R9MX4 said:

Tepidizer is the most efficiency heater in the game, even stronger than aquatuner. My ideal tepidizer should have lower heating power (at least lower than aquatuner) with no temperature limit.

+1.  Those are my thoughts precisely. 

[Rainbowdesign]

my hotter than lava mod should help with that.

[ishakaru]

On 2/24/2019 at 7:48 AM, Sasza22 said:

I think that might be the effect of heating machines being super effective in transfering or producing heat. With a realistic effciency the turbine would easily allow for perpetum mobile devices.

You may be onto something here. The fix is simple, make input power = output power. 960w=960dtu...still unrealistic... but it's a game. Although this would be a ~4000% nerf of the tepidizer. Then you can bump up the turbine efficiency to a real % (turbine outputs: input_steam_temp-X, rather than a static number). 

 

As a side note, I outlined a perpetual motion machine: 5 1 port turbines, 3 aquatuners(Super coolant), 1 tepidizer, 20 gas pumps for 640w, use door pumps instead to get an extra 4800w.  Using water you can't achieve a net positive power with gas pumps. Using door pumps(or gas fighting) you can achieve a net positive with 3 turbines and 4 aquatuners(240w). As you add more turbines and aquatuners, your net positive increases up to 6 1 port turbines and 7 aquatuners. Beyond that you need to add an another tepidizer. 

 

I've seen comments about the aquatuner.../shrug, it's a game. The only thing truly wrong with it is that it doesn't generate extra heat. To get ultra realistic it would work by transferring dtu's rather than degrees of C. If you go the DTU route then you should also change the effectiveness of it depending on what material it's made out of, and what liquid is being run through it(conductivity being the important bit).  But this is a game, a little free license is to be expected in place of ultra-realism. 

[0xFADE]

Boil water as a side effect of doing something else.

Cool down another liquid etc. The tepidizer is bad for many reasons. 

[Sasza22]

8 hours ago, ishakaru said:

The fix is simple, make input power = output power. 960w=960dtu...still unrealistic... but it's a game. Although this would be a ~4000% nerf of the tepidizer. Then you can bump up the turbine efficiency to a real % (turbine outputs: input_steam_temp-X, rather than a static number).

You`d have to nerf many more machines as well. I`m pretty sure there are other unrealisitc heat sources.

The temptizer is super efficient for a reason. It is designed for easy heating up water (probably to remove germs). Nrefing it would make it useless in the only thing it`s good at. The turbine meanwhile.. uhh; this thing is supposed to be realisitc in an unrealisitc world and not allow for perpetum mobile. It`s a borderline impossible task and that`s why the turbine is so hard to use.

[ishakaru]

18 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

It`s a borderline impossible task and that`s why the turbine is so hard to use.

 

So if we change our view of the pourpose of the turbine to heat deletion, and only heat deletion, then the turbine is overpowered... by alot. If we make the turbine only power gas pumps we can have 2 ports open before we need to bring in power(for that aspect). This turbine is now capable of deleting all the heat brought to it by 12 aquatuners running super coolant 100% of the time. You would have to build the ATs/Pumps out of space materials, but the turbine it's self could be any refined material.

To put a number to it, that's 14 million DTU/s. That's 1080 weeze worts, or 177 AETN's.

And that's only 40% of it's capability.

To bring it down to prespace we can safely(steel) run 2 tuners(water) per open port. Or roughly 206 worts worth of cooling per port.

If/when they overhaul the turbine I hope they at least make it a subtraction method rather than a set output. This would allow for using the turbines in series easier, would align more with reality and balance it in one go. Scaling output power by ports wouldn't be a bad thing either. 2k per port feels about right due to the sheer amount of heat deleted combined with the methods we have of transferring heat. 

As an aside... I'm not a fan of the tepidizer. Germs are easy to deal with already, and there is more effective ways already that don't use power. I don't see how it's removal would be detrimental. Using it is a convenience at best, a waste at worst. It's removal, or nerf to reasonable levels would allow freedom to bring the turbine to useable levels.

But that's just my 2cents. 

[Technoincubus]

It seems that with new build even automation won't allow us to boil water...what is the reason behind that?

[beowulf2010]

10 hours ago, Technoincubus said:

It seems that with new build even automation won't allow us to boil water...what is the reason behind that?

There are other easy ways to boil water... 

The safe ways include all 3 metal volcanoes, aquatuners, coolant from metal refineries (crude oil or petroleum) and dumping iron/regolith from space into water. 

The not so safe ways involve liquid hot magma. 

[Nightinggale]

The problem with unlocking the tepidizer is that it delivers enough heat to make steam turbines produce 3977 W while it only consumes 960 W. This means it is possible to build a powerplant, which produces electricity without any fuel.

If we are to get something to heat liquid to boiling temperature, then I suspect it would have to be a modded tepidizer. To make it balanced, it would only produce 775 kDTU as this will make it able to produce 750 W with a steam turbine while consuming 960 W. Would anybody use something this expensive?