Thermal averaging poll

[onebit]

Enquiring minds want to know.

[Oozinator]

I stopped playing, waiting for change.

[JonnyMonroe]

2 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

I stopped playing, waiting for change.

Same.

[Lilalaunekuh]

Averaging seems counterintuitiv and makes no real sense except that now the limiting factor for pipe/cell temperature transfer changed.

BUT till now i could say all new stuff would make before buildable things just smaller or more efficient.(SR-Latch as one part, coal generator automation input, radiant pipes to shrink radiators ...)

Now we can do still the same stuff so no real nerf on the function side (even that double abysalite walls are better and by a huge amount than one insulated abysalite wall at the same cost) but the convenience change to the worse ....

5 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

I stopped playing, waiting for change.

Same for me ...

[NanoD]

23 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

I stopped playing, waiting for change.

Same

[TheScaryOne]

Unless they completely revamp our ability to deal with heat, this change is a non-starter. You can't even deal with double thick walls easily, can't build through them, dupes like getting stuck in them.

[BlueLance]

33 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

I stopped playing, waiting for change.

Same, in less than 1 cycle most of my test base literally pooped itself, even changed to insulated tiles and they were even worse than the abyssalite

[Lutzkhie]

same here, either they revert or another method is fine

[Oozinator]

Just now, BlueLance said:

Same, in less than 1 cycle most of my test base literally pooped itself, even changed to insulated tiles and they were even worse than the abyssalite

So evil this change ^^

[Lutzkhie]

damn look at those abyssalite turning orange, it looks like the asteroid is heating up, imagine trying to contain heat from a volcano near your base

someone should really post this on suggestion

[BlueLance]

Just now, Lutzkhie said:

same here, either they revert or another method is fine

I chose another method, I agree that there needs to be some changes to how temperature works as i pretty much only use abysalite for room sensitive rooms. 

[Lilalaunekuh]

Would like a better fix for the "to op abysalite" and a buff to insulated stuff but thats my opinion.

What annoyies me the most is that the new thermal engery transfer is more counterintuitiv and against everything physics could suggest you.

[zombieJ]

Since not have better way to decrease the temp in the game. New design is a timer for dying by hot.

I'm not sure the best way to balance it but ONI has lots of funny item and may not to make it too hard to let player often restart the world.

[KittenIsAGeek]

The change in thermal conductivity doesn't impact ONLY abyssalite. It also impacts insulated tiles.   The right side should be orange/slightly red.  The left side should be green.  Clearly the insulated tiles aren't insulating.  The temperature has become a gradient along the border instead of being separated as previously.

[pnambic]

This is not an "Abyssalite nerf", it's a bug. Nobody had thought for more than 30 seconds about the implications, probably because there wasn't time. It should be rolled back, along with radiant pipes, until the team has decided on a coherent strategy for their thermodynamics.

The whole Mark II preview so far is a bit of a train wreck, unfortunately. It seems to me that they tried to make major changes "under the hood" (resulting in the initially botched UI, the InvisiDupes, etc.) while keeping the content pace high. That's... ambitious.

[KittenIsAGeek]

The mark II  preview is basically us getting a chance to look at their work in progress.  

[crypticorb]

5 minutes ago, pnambic said:

This is not an "Abyssalite nerf", it's a bug. Nobody had thought for more than 30 seconds about the implications, probably because there wasn't time. It should be rolled back, along with radiant pipes, until the team has decided on a coherent strategy for their thermodynamics.

The whole Mark II preview so far is a bit of a train wreck, unfortunately. It seems to me that they tried to make major changes "under the hood" (resulting in the initially botched UI, the InvisiDupes, etc.) while keeping the content pace high. That's... ambitious.

There's been serious consideration and debate on the forums on the implications. Currently, it results in melted ice biomes, cooled off hot biomes, and lava baked oil biome, as well as a complete gutting in the usefulness of insulated tiles.

Keep in mind that this is a preview, for a new release, from a game still in alpha. The change was made less than 24 hours ago, give the devs some slack, they are listening to our feedback.

[NanoD]

7 minutes ago, pnambic said:

This is not an "Abyssalite nerf", it's a bug. Nobody had thought for more than 30 seconds about the implications, probably because there wasn't time. It should be rolled back, along with radiant pipes, until the team has decided on a coherent strategy for their thermodynamics.

Yeah you just cant go and change laws of thermodynamics. 

There is so much with thermodynamics to do. So much that it is a thermodynamics MK2 upgrade. So for now I dont think they have time to faff around with it. 

[Lilalaunekuh]

Would love some consense on implementing the first law of thermodynamics 

[pnambic]

1 minute ago, crypticorb said:

There's been serious consideration and debate on the forums on the implications. Currently, it results in melted ice biomes, cooled off hot biomes, and lava baked oil biome, as well as a complete gutting in the usefulness of insulated tiles.

Keep in mind that this is a preview, for a new release, from a game still in alpha. The change was made less than 24 hours ago, give the devs some slack, they are listening to our feedback.

I know, I was the guy who ran the numbers on the various averaging proposals. And I may have come across a bit too strongly there, but on the other hand: we're their play testers. Part of that job is to let them know that we're worried, when we're worried. And another part of that job is to play the previews, which as far as I can tell most people stopped once they realized the extent of the bug. It's in Klei's best interest to roll this back as quickly as possible - unless they have a proper alternative near completion, but then why release the current one in the first place?

[Arash70]

1 hour ago, Oozinator said:

So evil this change ^^

It's called entropy and I totally support it

This thing makes late-game much more challenging

[Oozinator]

Just now, Arash70 said:

It's called entropy 

You can call it how you like, it's still gamebreaking ^^

[Lilalaunekuh]

Splitting the first poll option would be great^^

YES, abysalite was op and made insultated buildings just unnecessary.

But i HATE the changes in every aspect:

-Harder to imposible now to do the math for heat transfer on the fly.

-Counterintuitive if you compare it to real physics.

-Bad fps for the first cycles (close to 50) till the temperature has averaged a bit.

-Doesn´t really restrict the use-cases of anything just makes achieving it more annoying. (Like someone said before working with 2 layer walls is a pain for maintenance.)

[Technoincubus]

2 hours ago, Oozinator said:

I stopped playing, waiting for change.

Same, this heating method is horrible

[trukogre]

26 minutes ago, pnambic said:

I know, I was the guy who ran the numbers on the various averaging proposals. And I may have come across a bit too strongly there, but on the other hand: we're their play testers. Part of that job is to let them know that we're worried, when we're worried. And another part of that job is to play the previews, which as far as I can tell most people stopped once they realized the extent of the bug. It's in Klei's best interest to roll this back as quickly as possible - unless they have a proper alternative near completion, but then why release the current one in the first place?

Quoting because this is the comment of the year.  Going to have to disagree on playing being a job though--you get paid money to do a job, I paid money for Early Access to this game.  You who volunteer to play the previews are awesome volunteers, and I salute you for it, but I'm not willing to play them anymore, unless they want to pay me like it's a job.  Because it's started to feel like a job to play their preview branches.