Thermal averaging poll

[Kiako]

I really don't like having two / lots of  different rules for the same interaction depending on the kind of building (made with the same material.).

[QuQuasar]

5 hours ago, wachunga said:

It appears the average value thing was reverted for tile/tile interactions and was only kept for pipe/contents interactions. A brief experiment shows wolframite/granite tiles interacting at the same rate as tungsten/granite tiles which means the average thing isn't a thing, barring some bug for that very specific scenario.

Confirmed. I just loaded up a game with a hot abyssalite shell around it and the abyssalite tiles are no longer radiating heat into my base. 

 

So... insulated tiles are pointless again. As promised, am disappointed. Oh well. I can at least console myself with the death of drip cooling.

[pnambic]

40 minutes ago, QuQuasar said:

Confirmed. I just loaded up a game with a hot abyssalite shell around it and the abyssalite tiles are no longer radiating heat into my base. 

 

So... insulated tiles are pointless again. As promised, am disappointed. Oh well. I can at least console myself with the death of drip cooling.

I can't confirm that. Plain (non-insulated) abyssalite equalizes rapidly with surrounding gas as well as with adjacent mineral tiles for me. See the screen shots below (most dramatic in the bottom layers of the oxygen module, which are abyssalite, abyssalite, igneous top to bottom). Or am I misunderstanding the issue?

[Oozinator]

4 minutes ago, pnambic said:

I can't confirm that.

 

World generated with diff patch perhaps (you both)
Very strange cooling mechanism now.
Takes very long, but "balanced" area is spreading every cycle.
Drip cooling needed at least some skill, to setup in survival.
Now one thermocooler could do the job over time, it seems.
This game needs now to much attention in many areas and includes massive micro. I don't like the way oni is taking..
Sometimes i get quicker "temperature bleeding" like with the Borg Cube, but upwards and with gases..

 

[pnambic]

30 minutes ago, Oozinator said:

World generated with diff patch perhaps (you both)

Possible... my test world was originally generated by one of the first two Mark II preview patches. I've tested this save with every update since the conductivity averaging nonsense started and have consistently seen the behaviour above.

Just to make sure, I can also replicate this in a world generated after the "insulated tiles use the old calculation method" patch. I brought in some abyssalite from a caustic biome and built regular tiles with it, with the expected results.

[Oozinator]

8 minutes ago, pnambic said:

.I can also replicate this in a world generated after..

Could be, perhaps different userbased weatherconditions are influencing ONI temperaturcalculation..

The truth is, i am more then confused about all those fancy upgrades/updates..

[wachunga]

39 minutes ago, pnambic said:

Possible... my test world was originally generated by one of the first two Mark II preview patches. I've tested this save with every update since the conductivity averaging nonsense started and have consistently seen the behaviour above.

Just to make sure, I can also replicate this in a world generated after the "insulated tiles use the old calculation method" patch. I brought in some abyssalite from a caustic biome and built regular tiles with it, with the expected results.

Weird, I can't replicate that behavior at all. For me, abyssalite behaves just like it used to before all the shenanigans. Only thing I can think of is to test it in a brand new world generated in 266094. Maybe verify game files in steam, or even a reinstall? No idea.

Would be helpful if we knew which way it's supposed to be working and whose game is screwed up.

[pnambic]

2 hours ago, wachunga said:

Weird, I can't replicate that behavior at all. For me, abyssalite behaves just like it used to before all the shenanigans. Only thing I can think of is to test it in a brand new world generated in 266094. Maybe verify game files in steam, or even a reinstall? No idea.

Would be helpful if we knew which way it's supposed to be working and whose game is screwed up.

Indeed, that would be helpful. For what's it worth, I started a new regular game, and I'm still seeing what I expect to see, given the patch notes so far (screenshot below, the four blocks left of the printer have been built in that cycle, out of abyssalite from the right edge of the screen. Two insulated, two regular). Game files verified fine. I can see two potential causes for differences: a) I'm on macOS, and b) I have old-style debug mode enabled (i.e., I have the "debug_enable.txt" file in the appropriate folder), but haven't activated it on any of these worlds.

[wachunga]

Maybe it is an OS issue. I'm on windows. Tested with and without debug_enable.txt existing. Either way a moderately warmer abyssalite tile (43.8C) is neither warming oxygen (~23C) nor cooling down over the course of several cycles. Brand new world after a reinstall. 

[storm6436]

As a programmer, tinkering with the code to try to optimize for performance and fun reasons -- Meh, okay.
As a physicist, changes based on wholly non-physical reasoning when the previous system at least paid lip-service to actual physics? - Problem.

Overall?  Roll it back.  Yes, the quantized (tile) nature of the game introduces some freaky/weird/unexpected behavior, but there's got to be a better way to address whatever is supposed to be address here without fundamentally altering the thermodynamics implementation with more non-physical features.

 If the problem is abyssalite being OP, then make it more rare.  Alter the map, make the current abyssalite deposits something else less OP with patches of abyssalite in it, keep the abyssalite deposits in the magma zone so it's mostly gated by tech.