Summary of Rework Ideas for Winona

[TheKingofSquirrels]

So the post Winona confirmed perks , had a lot of people talking about how they hate the new character and how they could make it better.

And there were some users that came up with some really good ideas, but as the post is 218 replies long, I thought I'd summarise and make it easier for the devs to see them.

Idea 1 (by Rellimarual): "she turn three stacks of cut grass into 40 rope instantly? That would be great"

Basically, can instantly craft multiple refined items at once (such as rope, boards, cut stone, papyrus, marbles beans).

So for example, 40 logs can instantly be crafted into 10 Boards. 

This was, from what I could tell, the most liked idea. It fits with her building character and, unlike the the 0.5 second cut it takes for her to craft (which is made redundant with characters like Maxwell and Woodie, who can level forests in seconds) it would actually be a great time saver for base construction. 

Idea 2 (many people, but started by Lumina): She can hack Clockwork Monsters. Either befriending them like pigs or, and this a little bit more out there: her character sits down and uses a controller, becoming idle and vulnerable, and the player plays as a rook, or a bishop, or a knight.

It fits with her engineer character and would actually be a lot of fun.

Idea 3 (edit) Being able to repair armour and weapon with mending tape. 

I also mentioned the idea that she could craft things for less resources, but there were some issues with that.

[Starlogy]

Crafting things for less resources would basically mean she has a permanent Construction Amulet, which combined with the Deconstruction Staff, would be almighty broken.

I love the stack crafting though.

[ShadowDuelist]

You forgot her tape being able to repair more than just clothing.

I personally believe it should be just basic weapons, basic armor and tools for balance purposes.

Other people suggested to make the tape a lot more expensive to make, but either be able to repari all sorts of weapons/armor unlimited times, or allow it to repair any weapon/armor but just once, essentially doubling the durability of those items. 

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

May be putting together two items into one, if their durability doesn't exceed 100%? So, a 10% axe, a 15% axe and a 20% axe could be combined to make one 45% axe. Because items not being finished off and thrown away could create potential memory leaks, requiring the resetting of the world when you don't want to. It would be good if the game despawned certain items left on the ground under certain conditions by itself, but I guess that's "asking too much".

Such awful game design. Very disappoint. Much unwow

[Sasuga]

I think her Tape being just a sewing kit is dumb. I wouldn't feel very dapper with my hat or clothing patched up with tape.

I suggest her tape be used to repair any item with a percentage. So, she can tape up a thermal stone, a spear, a tentacle spike, etc. That would fit more with an engineer.  If they want to leave it so she can also use it on clothing I'd be kinda ok with it, but I think a sewing kit does the job but having something that can repair a tentacle spike, and other items that are not normally repairable would be awesome.

I think the idea of her using less resources to craft things is also a great idea, even if it is 'broken' with a magic item (staff of deconstruction). By the time she gets to a deconstruction staff the player(s) have a pretty good handle on the world anyway.

Getting hit once in the dark is a nice ability for newbs, but a real let down for experienced players which most people are by now. I mean, sure I've been caught in the dark and died from it recently, but that's because I can ALMOST play this game in my sleep and wasn't paying attention because of my overconfidence. - I still don't like her ability to get hit in the dark once, who cares!?

If she could build more cheaply and repair non-clothing items with her tape, she wouldn't need the night time hit.. but then, I suppose you could leave it for the newbs.

[Auth]

In one simple change, you can make Winona be a useful and interesting character.

Make this:

Be this:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=767776640

 

Also, if she crafted things for cheaper, then you'd be able to get 2 deconstruction staffs out of dragonfly, which you can then use for twice the thulecite/nightmare fuel as a normal dragonfly kill, not to mention the fact that you can make one using only one green gem for the rest of the entire game. You'll be swimming in thulecite, which I'm pretty sure is not the point of it.

[GuyNamedChris]

I just wanna be able to repair my armor, man.

[BiddoBams]

How about you let her tape repair armour and weapons, BUT: will also reduce the maximum durability of the item when repaired. This would be hard to work with since the repairs are percentage based, so instead maybe make the tape fully repair an item but then reduce the maximum durability by 25%, meaning you can only effectively repair something 3 times, but with a shorter life time each repair. It could be shown by the durability number changing in colour: Yellow on the first tape, orange on the second and red on the last.

This would call for the tape requiring a larger cost (maybe ewewcus phlegm?.. but then it should be able to repair boss and magical stuff if thats the case. maybe.)

This helps her tape extend the life of items, but not indefinitely.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

@Weirdobob how exactly do you mean it? So, I'm guessing you mean using the tape to merge two of the same items with durability together? But how would that work with the tape in the middle? You can only hover one item over another, you can't hover a tape and a firestaff over another firestaff, for example. Or do you mean putting tape on one of the firestaffs, in the provided scenario and then the taped firestaff onto another firestaff or something?

[Auth]

2 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

@Weirdobob how exactly do you mean it? So, I'm guessing you mean using the tape to merge two of the same items with durability together? But how would that work with the tape in the middle? You can only hover one item over another, you can't hover a tape and a firestaff over another firestaff, for example. Or do you mean putting tape on one of the firestaffs, in the provided scenario and then the taped firestaff onto another firestaff or something?

I'd assume if you right click an item with the tape it gets tagged as "Taped" which you can then use on another item. It'd still be better than a sewing kit. Because we all know tape holds cloth together better than it holds hard things it can actually adhere to.

[Atkvin]

8 hours ago, StarmanNess said:

Crafting things for less resources would basically mean she has a permanent Construction Amulet, which combined with the Deconstruction Staff, would be almighty broken.

It could be a cool overpowered trait that gives players reason to play her though. A good way to balance it might be to only apply it to structures and to ensure she has to have crafted the structure once with full materials before being able to craft it for half the materials, so it will only be useful for chests, campfires, so on.

[TemporaryMan]

7 hours ago, Sasuga said:

I think her Tape being just a sewing kit is dumb. I wouldn't feel very dapper with my hat or clothing patched up with tape.

Neither a duct-tape obsessed geek, nor a fan of The Crow, I take it?

[Kyno]

Since she is a Handywoman, it would be interesting for her to make items for half the cost, as if she were using a Construction Amulet

[Sasuga]

7 hours ago, Weirdobob said:

In one simple change, you can make Winona be a useful and interesting character.

Make this:

Be this:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=767776640

 

Also, if she crafted things for cheaper, then you'd be able to get 2 deconstruction staffs out of dragonfly, which you can then use for twice the thulecite/nightmare fuel as a normal dragonfly kill, not to mention the fact that you can make one using only one green gem for the rest of the entire game. You'll be swimming in thulecite, which I'm pretty sure is not the point of it.

The "Constructing Things Cheaper" doesn't have to include rare items.  Just things that are made from wood, twigs, grass, etc.  Special items like Gems, Deerclops Eyes, Nightmare Fule, etc. costs could remain the same cost.

Afterall, she's an engineer-type, not a magic-type.

For example, an Eyebrella costs 1x Deerclops Eye, 15x Twigs, and x4 Bone.  Maybe she could do it for 1x Deerclops Eye, 7x Twigs or 8x Twigs, and 3x bone. Or something

If her costs were 1/3rd rounded up, she'd still need TWO Green Gems, TWO Living Logs, and three Nightmare Fuel.  Wow, the game would be so broken.

Meanwhile, she could build a backpack with 3x Cut Grass, 3x Twigs.  A Fire Pit would (still) require 2x logs, but only 8x stones.

At 1/3rd rounded up, a Science machine would still be 1x Gold, and then 3x Wood, 3x Stone.

 

So why are you freaking out over my suggestion that it cost her less to build things?  Oh, because you assumed less must mean half?

 

=-=-=-=

Why would I want to combine a 15% fire staff with a 75% fire staff?  I mean, sure you've got two fire staffs in your inventory, but you could just as easily use up the 15% and carry the 75%.  Combining two items into one... I see no advantage to it.  I use up my tools all the way, except for a pick which I use to 3% (most of the time) and then turn into a Thermal Stone.

 

I don't need to combine a 50% axe with another 50% axe, there's no gain there. It'll use up the same amount of resources. It only helps for people who use their tools partway and then have too many tools for their slots..?  I mean, sure  sometimes you find stuff laying around, but ... I don't see the advantage of taking two fire staffs and making them into one... Especially when having two allows two players to have one each, while having one only allows a single player to have one.

 

=-=-=-=-

ALSO with my idea of allowing her TAPE to fix things with a percentage, you could use the TAPE to repair the STAFF up to 100%, which is way better!

Why combine two staffs when you can create tape and then use that to repair the staves?

[Sasuga]

1 hour ago, TemporaryMan said:

Neither a duct-tape obsessed geek, nor a fan of The Crow, I take it?

I loved The Crow! Doesn't mean I'd feel very human wearing clothing patched up with duct tape.

 

I mean, I've seen wedding dresses made of Toilet Paper, but that's a whole different thing.  I'm sure you could make something cool out of duct tape, but slapping tape onto some clothing because it's got a hole in it, while practical wouldn't make me feel more cleaned up or fancy... or sane.

[Sasuga]

1 hour ago, Kynoox_ said:

Since she is a Handywoman, it would be interesting for her to make items for half the cost, as if she were using a Construction Amulet

Or just 1/3rd the cost rounded up is what I would recommend.  It would make the construction amulet still useful for her, and not freak out some people about how powerful she is with getting two staffs of destruction from one Firefly or whatever. - Not that it would bother me... The game is fairly long in the tooth now, I'm delighted they're adding new content/character(s), but I feel like this character doesn't have anything appealing for me to play her.  She's a cool concept, "A Builder" or "Handywoman" character, but I feel she doesn't bring anything useful to the party as is.

[Auth]

40 minutes ago, Sasuga said:

The "Constructing Things Cheaper" doesn't have to include rare items.  Just things that are made from wood, twigs, grass, etc.  Special items like Gems, Deerclops Eyes, Nightmare Fule, etc. costs could remain the same cost.

Afterall, she's an engineer-type, not a magic-type.

For example, an Eyebrella costs 1x Deerclops Eye, 15x Twigs, and x4 Bone.  Maybe she could do it for 1x Deerclops Eye, 7x Twigs or 8x Twigs, and 3x bone. Or something

If her costs were 1/3rd rounded up, she'd still need TWO Green Gems, TWO Living Logs, and three Nightmare Fuel.  Wow, the game would be so broken.

Meanwhile, she could build a backpack with 3x Cut Grass, 3x Twigs.  A Fire Pit would (still) require 2x logs, but only 8x stones.

At 1/3rd rounded up, a Science machine would still be 1x Gold, and then 3x Wood, 3x Stone.

 

So why are you freaking out over my suggestion that it cost her less to build things?  Oh, because you assumed less must mean half?

 

=-=-=-=

Why would I want to combine a 15% fire staff with a 75% fire staff?  I mean, sure you've got two fire staffs in your inventory, but you could just as easily use up the 15% and carry the 75%.  Combining two items into one... I see no advantage to it.  I use up my tools all the way, except for a pick which I use to 3% (most of the time) and then turn into a Thermal Stone.

 

I don't need to combine a 50% axe with another 50% axe, there's no gain there. It'll use up the same amount of resources. It only helps for people who use their tools partway and then have too many tools for their slots..?  I mean, sure  sometimes you find stuff laying around, but ... I don't see the advantage of taking two fire staffs and making them into one... Especially when having two allows two players to have one each, while having one only allows a single player to have one.

 

=-=-=-=-

ALSO with my idea of allowing her TAPE to fix things with a percentage, you could use the TAPE to repair the STAFF up to 100%, which is way better!

Why combine two staffs when you can create tape and then use that to repair the staves?

1: That'd be a huge pain and would require quite a bit more coding and altering because crafting recipes just don't have an "rare item" tag. 

2: Wowzers are you defensive. Look buddy, I'm not calling you out or saying you're ideas all bad, I have nothing against you. Sorry if you took any offense.

3: I wasn't freaking out, I was just saying my opinion. Other people have brought up the issue besides just you and I figured I'd offer my two cents, I wasn't intending to single you out or whatever. Again, sorry if this is somehow the case, I have nothing against you.

4: Because I absolutely despise having tons of low percentage items. If you could combine low use things, it wouldn't be brokenly powerful but it'd be helpful as heck. For me, by day 1,000, my base is swimming in 2% armor items and weapons, percentages so low it's impractical to tote them around anymore. Sure, I could burn them off doing something stupid, but that's time consuming and worthless for the most part. Even if you use the excuse that two players could want it, I sincerely doubt two players are going to want a fire staff with one use. While you can argue just crafting a new one would be better, crafting a new one also outdoes repairing it as well, so that argument's nullified. I think it should be an enhancer rather than a flat out fixer. There needs to be some sacrifice rather than just taping up a beequeen crown infinitely to remove the need to fight her again.

5: I kind of feel like you're purposely going out and insulting my intelligence. Thanks. Again, I have nothing against you, and you're just as entitled to have an opinion as I am. And you can still repair items to 100%, but it'd require a sacrifice to get there rather than 1 character is able to fix anything for an insanely cheap price, which, in my opinion, would make her too strong, especially if that was combined with your cheaper crafting thing. She still has no downsides, so with all of this combined she'd definitely need one warranted.

[HamBatter]

15 minutes ago, Weirdobob said:

my base is swimming in 2% armor items and weapons, percentages so low it's impractical to tote them around anymore.

There's really no excuse for this, it's a bad habit people have unless the tool can be crafted into other things.

Armor autoequips when broken so you can get the damage reduction on the last hit and start on a fresh one. If you have a pile of them you can use them in instances where you can spare the inventory slots like killing Werepigs or Goats.

Weapons still do damage. Why are you lugging it back at its last use anyway when you could have freed up a slot?

[Auth]

8 minutes ago, HamBatter said:

There's really no excuse for this, it's a bad habit people have unless the tool can be crafted into other things.

Armor autoequips when broken so you can get the damage reduction on the last hit and start on a fresh one. If you have a pile of them you can use them in instances where you can spare the inventory slots like killing Werepigs or Goats.

Weapons still do damage. Why are you lugging it back at its last use anyway when you could have freed up a slot?

Because then I have to go into combat using up more slots than normal. If I'm purposely going out for a fight, I have better gear to carry. If hounds or a boss are coming, I don't have the time to grab it. I don't like wasting time by running out to the nearest spider den to slap one just to break a spear, I'd prefer to just beat up an enemy with a good percentage item when I need to, not run at a pinata with 12 spears at 2% and more helmets are 3%. Not to mention, I don't need to fight goats and werepigs at a constant, so that's a very slim opportunity for something that shouldn't be an issue in the first place.

[HamBatter]

21 minutes ago, Weirdobob said:

Because then I have to go into combat using up more slots than normal. If I'm purposely going out for a fight, I have better gear to carry. If hounds or a boss are coming, I don't have the time to grab it. I don't like wasting time by running out to the nearest spider den to slap one just to break a spear, I'd prefer to just beat up an enemy with a good percentage item when I need to, not run at a pinata with 12 spears at 2% and more helmets are 3%. Not to mention, I don't need to fight goats and werepigs at a constant, so that's a very slim opportunity for something that shouldn't be an issue in the first place.

It's not about using it for the sake of using it up, it's using it up when convenient. Your pile of 1% weapons is good for Shadow Creatures. The Goats (can hop into an attack) and Werepigs (may resist stunlock) thing is meant to reduce the current pile of low durability armor gradually (if you do those manually) not as soon as you get one.

[Sinister_Fang]

All this talk of improving Winona's perks, and here I am thinking she just needs some kind of downside (even if it's a fairly minor one). As she is now it just feels like she's stepping on Wilson's toes by being an all around character with almost no real perks.

Although when it comes to the tape discussion, I think it would be a lot better if it was able to repair all armor and tools, but only once.

[PillsStealer]

2 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

All this talk of improving Winona's perks, and here I am thinking she just needs some kind of downside

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

I don't like the idea that she's a Wilson with a few extra stuff. The things that I love about every other character is that they differentiate from each other and from wilson. Look at Walani, at glance she may look like a Wilson but she has a downside (starves faster) Stuff like is this is need to make the character more unique! 

Same is lame! Different is Ok! Downsides shine!

[TemporaryMan]

55 minutes ago, HamBatter said:

There's really no excuse for this, it's a bad habit people have unless the tool can be crafted into other things.

Armor autoequips when broken so you can get the damage reduction on the last hit and start on a fresh one. If you have a pile of them you can use them in instances where you can spare the inventory slots like killing Werepigs or Goats.

When the armor breaks, any remaining damage gets through without any reduction before you auto-equip the next one.  This produces sudden bursts of damage.  For WX or Wolfgang, this might not be such a big deal; for Maxwell, it's absolutely deadly.  One way around this is to wear both armor and a helmet, so when one breaks, the other absorbs the damage burst.

Here's two better uses for low durability armor:

• use it when picking cacti
• throw it in the fire pit

[Sinister_Fang]

1 hour ago, TemporaryMan said:

When the armor breaks, any remaining damage gets through without any reduction before you auto-equip the next one.  This produces sudden bursts of damage.  For WX or Wolfgang, this might not be such a big deal; for Maxwell, it's absolutely deadly.  One way around this is to wear both armor and a helmet, so when one breaks, the other absorbs the damage burst.

I thought this was changed in DST so that the damage is still absorbed even if the armor breaks. But I could be wrong though. That's just what I've heard. Never really paid close enough attention to my health when my armor breaks.

[TemporaryMan]

Hm, good question.  I haven`t heard anything about that.