Character Rebalance Discussion thread

[jbeetle]

I bet WX will just be a mobile lightning rod and that's it as far as lightning strikes go)

[brummbar7]

Just wondering how would WX-78 behaving like a Lightning rod be a downside when being struck by lighting heals you and maks your speed go up?

That's a very good question. And so, what, basically you never need to build a lightning rod as WX? That's pretty convenient.

[jbeetle]

The way Kevin worded never made it seem like a negative anyway. It was just a way of saying "wait guys, don't freak out, there's an upside!"

[Kevin]

Ah. I think I misphrased that. Wx will attract lighting. As in, he'll get hit, but stuff around him will catch on fire.

[Subscriber01236]

Ahh thanks Kevin.But what if you are near a lighting rod? will the lightning still go to WX or the Lightning rod?To please my god.I shall offer you Wes as a sacrifice.

[jbeetle]

Ah. I think I misphrased that. Wx will attract lighting. As in, he'll get hit, but stuff around him will catch on fire.

as long as it fills him up with light like a lightning rod, that's fine with me . lightning already sets things on fire anyway.

[Ridley]

Kevin! Will the lighting hurt the umbrella?

[bigpak]

I am going to be moderately unhappy if when your standing near a lightning rod it still strikes wx-78

[Luigisopa]

Kevin! Will the lighting hurt the umbrella?

It should occasionally! That way it looses durability. Good idea.

[brummbar7]

The way Kevin worded never made it seem like a negative anyway. It was just a way of saying "wait guys, don't freak out, there's an upside!"

It was (and still is as of this posting) listed in the OP under the "negatives" of WX. Therefore some of us were not seeing how it was a negative when right above that under the "positives" heading, it was stated lightning would heal and speed you up. That's where the wondering came from. Kevin is updating the OP as he progresses here, best to refer back to it if people seem to be talking about things you don't remember.But Kevin cleared that up a bit. Definitely some downside if things around you catch on fire as well. I trust that means that a constructed lightning rod will take precedence over WX as far as which the lightning hits first (it's taller, after all). Overall I'd still rather be able to just touch the lightning rod for the same benefit (no fire risk, but also no random stat boosts when out exploring/fighting), but whatever.

[L0stLP]

I suggested Wolfgang getting hungrier faster because : 1. It would reduce his free roam without food from 3 days to 2 days and a half. So to actually have to bring food with you when you go explore.2. Put the stockpiled food to use. You can actually use a meaty stew and a honey ham to fill him up. Instead with Wes a meaty stew is wasted and all the meat will go spoiled.So yeah, the hunger rate would be same as Wes, but due to Wolfgang's biggest stomach it would still take him longer than the others to starve, just not as long as it does nowThis means it doesn't nullify the hunger bonus at all, just reduces it. Like i assume the umbrella for WX-78 won't nullify the damage but just reduce it.P.S. [MENTION=27331]jbeetle[/MENTION] no offense taken whatsoever. Don't sweat it :)On another note here are some ideas form /r/dontstarve from reddit : http://redd.it/1g8d6h

Too many people are missing the point, this is not about making you're favorite character weaker just because we have to.It's about if you would chose between Wilson and Wolfgang or another character. And if you go stat-wise Wolfgang will win. You should think of ways to counteract his straights with disadvantages. The fake rate of hunger is something people hate, even though nobody complained when it was added to Wes, now everybody complains not to consider adding it to Wolfgang. The simplest way would be to simply remove the perk "has bigger stomach", he is still the strongman even with that out.But that will not be enough because he still outclasses Wilson, you don't have to go for the basic stats you can have more imagination in you're suggestion. Edited June 13, 2013 by L0stLP

[Att3r0]

(didn't read comments yet) Would it be possible to add a ability to be used once per period of time ? (hours or days ) if so then:Willow - ability to set something on fire like with fire dart, would replace her start fires at night perWendy - obviously summon AbigailWes - mimic enviroment - ability to lose whatever is chasing himWolfgang - Instead of pernament damage increase - strongman potion - bonus damage and minor hp restore over next minute.Maxwell - either replacing his pernament sanity bonus active to boost sanity regen for a while or ability to summon some nightmare fuel or restore condition of nightmare related item.Willson - ability to repair crafted crafted non-magic related item (like log suit, helmet , also marble suit)WX-78 - ?? maybe ability to shock opponents in area.Wickerbottom - ??? ability to repair dress like items?Thats just something to think of ;]Now regarding changes so far and normal suggesions:Willow - likeWillson - i agree he is quite balanced as he is but not exactly that special ;PWx-78 - fine but warrning better not let stats carry over games (or add cap) unless you want to bite players into racing ;pRest:Wendy - can be ok if abigail would behave like friendly pig or something ? also - she doesnt get attacked by hallucinations when abigail is around ?Wolfgang - fix so his bonus douen to apply to ranged. If you would keep his bonuses make him lose hunger 1.5 times fasterWes - well he is supposed to be weaker then rest so no point balancing here. Maybe ability to mimic statue when not moving for a while ? wouldnt work on houndsWickerbottom - hmmm would gain small sanity bonus upon building t2/t3 items even after prototyped?- or sanity regen when near science machine / alchemy engine - or items got more uses ...Maxwell - i know many would be against it but his sanity regen needs to go away. It more or less defeat purpose of sanity regen items. So instead:-give him a bit more hp-His creations doesn't cause him to lose sanity (thats after all the main puprose of his passive to be able to use dark sword and night armor). Bat bat sanity loss on hit should still apply.

[jbeetle]

Too many people are missing the point, this is not about making you're favorite character weaker just because we have to.It's about if you would chose between Wilson and Wolfgang or another character. And if you go stat-wise Wolfgang will win. You should think of ways to counteract his straights with disadvantages. The fake rate of hunger is something people hate, even though nobody complained when it was added to Wes, now everybody complains not to consider adding it to Wolfgang. The simplest way would be to simply remove the perk "has bigger stomach", he is still the strongman even with that out.But that will not be enough because he still outclasses Wilson, you don't have to go for the basic stats you can have more imagination in you're suggestion.

What's so wrong about having a newb character?

[jbeetle]

It was (and still is as of this posting) listed in the OP under the "negatives" of WX. Therefore some of us were not seeing how it was a negative when right above that under the "positives" heading, it was stated lightning would heal and speed you up. That's where the wondering came from. Kevin is updating the OP as he progresses here, best to refer back to it if people seem to be talking about things you don't remember.But Kevin cleared that up a bit. Definitely some downside if things around you catch on fire as well. I trust that means that a constructed lightning rod will take precedence over WX as far as which the lightning hits first (it's taller, after all). Overall I'd still rather be able to just touch the lightning rod for the same benefit (no fire risk, but also no random stat boosts when out exploring/fighting), but whatever.

To me, that's not a downside, and that's fine. things catch on fire around you with lightning already.

[L0stLP]

Willow - ability to set something on fire like with fire dart, would replace her start fires at night per

that ability is getting axed in favor of the lighter.

Wolfgang - Instead of permanent damage increase - strongman potion - bonus damage and minor hp restore over next minute.

What kind of game do you think this is, you get health, hunger and sanity with food or with medicine.

Wolfgang - fix so his bonus douen to apply to ranged. If you would keep his bonuses make him lose hunger 1.5 times faster

This suggestion was already made and it made a lot of people unhappy, because it shows a fake value on how much time you can stay without food.

Wes - well he is supposed to be weaker then rest so no point balancing here. Maybe ability to mimic statue when not moving for a while ? wouldnt work on hounds

No point?! Answer me this! in his current state would you play as Wes ?

Also you’re suggestion is what the bush hat is for.

Maxwell - i know many would be against it but his sanity regen needs to go away. It more or less defeat purpose of sanity regen items. So instead:

-give him a bit more hp

-His creations doesn't cause him to lose sanity (thats after all the main puprose of his passive to be able to use dark sword and night armor). Bat bat sanity loss on hit should still apply.

His sanity gaining is cannon the, devs cant remove it, unless they want a plot hole. Edited June 13, 2013 by L0stLP

[L0stLP]

What's so wrong about having a newb character?

His name is Wilson!

He has no drawbacks and you don't need to go insane in order to get items for you're "extra life".

[bigpak]

Wilson is fine as is, wolfgang wes and wickerbottom on the otherhand... they need changes imo.

[brummbar7]

Too many people are missing the point...It's about if you would chose between Wilson and Wolfgang or another character

Personally I think too many are entirely missing the point of Wolfgang. He's there for newb players who may be having trouble with other characters. He's SUPPOSED to be easier, he does not NEED to be "balanced". Every character does not need to be "balanced". What they DO all need to be is INTERESTING. They need to give people a reason to play them. Right now, imo, Wendy, WX, Willow, and Wickerbottom are all fairly unattractive due to perks that are of little use (or whose utility quickly is gone), so I'm basically left playing them for their quotes. Of those four, Wendy is the closest to ok as Abigail is entirely unique to her, so she is *interesting* to play for that alone. Abi just needs to be tuned a bit to make her less annoying. The notion of all the characters needing to be 'balanced' is misleading I think. This is a single player game. You're not competing. They simply need to be fun to play for one reason or another, and unique from one another (aside from quotes). If someone only plays Wolfgang because he's the 'best and easiest', they're kind of missing the point of this game I think.

[TeoSS69]

Too many people are missing the point, this is not about making you're favorite character weaker just because we have to.It's about if you would chose between Wilson and Wolfgang or another character. And if you go stat-wise Wolfgang will win. You should think of ways to counteract his straights with disadvantages. The fake rate of hunger is something people hate, even though nobody complained when it was added to Wes, now everybody complains not to consider adding it to Wolfgang. The simplest way would be to simply remove the perk "has bigger stomach", he is still the strongman even with that out.But that will not be enough because he still outclasses Wilson, you don't have to go for the basic stats you can have more imagination in you're suggestion.

When it comes down to it, it's all about stats and how they change. Following your logic, no one should have played with any other character except for Wolfgang until now, because he outclasses everyone. My suggestion was to directly change the way you play as Wofly, gather more food, watch out from low sanity early on, gather more ingredients for items. I don't like all the dumbell ideas and so on so i wanted to keep it simple.

[Fanciful]

I see so many people wanting Wolfgang and Wes to stay the same. I really disagree with that. Each character should have something special about them that would make people want to play as them. Especially in the case of Wes.I don't want Wes to be less difficult. I just want him to have at least one special, positive quality.

[jbeetle]

I see so many people wanting Wolfgang and Wes to stay the same. I really disagree with that. Each character should have something special about them that would make people want to play as them. Especially in the case of Wes.I don't want Wes to be less difficult. I just want him to have at least one special, positive quality.

I'm fine with that, but I'm also fine with them still filling their current roles while also being given something unique.

[L0stLP]

Personally I think too many are entirely missing the point of Wolfgang. He's there for newb players who may be having trouble with other characters. He's SUPPOSED to be easier, he does not NEED to be "balanced". Every character does not need to be "balanced". What they DO all need to be is INTERESTING. They need to give people a reason to play them. Right now, imo, Wendy, WX, Willow, and Wickerbottom are all fairly unattractive due to perks that are of little use (or whose utility quickly is gone), so I'm basically left playing them for their quotes. Of those four, Wendy is the closest to ok as Abigail is entirely unique to her, so she is *interesting* to play for that alone. Abi just needs to be tuned a bit to make her less annoying. The notion of all the characters needing to be 'balanced' is misleading I think. This is a single player game. You're not competing. They simply need to be fun to play for one reason or another, and unique from one another (aside from quotes). If someone only plays Wolfgang because he's the 'best and easiest', they're kind of missing the point of this game I think.

It's like this game is a survival game or something! Where you, you know, DIE, if you are not careful !Willow not useful ? She is, currently, literally immune to two types of deaths: fire and the grue, whatever you do, she will not die to those.I can understand the rest because they're situational and not all can put them to good use.

[WilliWilson]

I have to say, I didnt read everything here about WX-78, but i think he shouldn´t be able to heal himself with Healing-Salve or the Honey Poultice. Instead he may are able to craft something similar out of gears. Or he use nitre to heal himself.

[brummbar7]

That's fine, so if someone has a problem dieing from fire or darkness then Maybe willow is for them. I've died exactly once from each of those things, ever. They're not an issue for me. But she's getting a lighter now, so that's unique, and I guess kind of interesting. Not enough for me, but hey, there's only four save slots anyway, and once the lava level comes in she'll move up in usefulness I'm sure. For my money WX is shaping up to be possibly the most interesting character by far, depending on what kind of speed/stat boosts he gets from stuff. He's going to be the 6-million-gold-nugget-man of DS. Right now it looks like he's basically going to be getting TWO unique game mechanics just for him - eating gears and lightning boosts. My only regret is there's no lightning storms in Winter. McTusk would REALLY get what-for then!The ballon thing with Wes, that's good, that's interesting. It's unique. It would make me want to play him. I have no interest in playing him just for the game to be harder. But for some kind of balloon craziness? I'm listening. THAT is what I mean. Fun. Interesting. Yes. Balanced? I don't care that much I guess.

Edited June 13, 2013 by brummbar7

[L0stLP]

I have to say, I didnt read everything here about WX-78, but i think he shouldn´t be able to heal himself with Healing-Salve or the Honey Poultice. Instead he may are able to craft something similar out of gears. Or he use nitre to heal himself.

They ware added to the game to not make people rely entirely on meat. Before, meat healed a lot more than it does now. Niter is currently useless, gears are scarce.