brummbar7

You lucked out in that your typical design happened to be the exact maximum that Klei chose (8 beds = 16 wide x 4 tall =64). For me for instance, my typical floor is 9 beds wide. So it was just a bit under my preference. Which isn't a big deal, but it just goes to show that it's about impossible for Klei to meet everyone's previously existing desires. I'll adapt. That's the name of the game. I like the room mechanic so far, though I haven't really used it a lot.

Well, right, that's the point though. This floor width derives from the way I normally set up other things in the 'column'. In this particular case I set everything up before I realized how rooms worked, and there's no way I'm going back and relocating ladders and everything just to make my floors 2 tiles narrower. It derives from the following restroom/medbay layout: Also it works out as about 1/3 the total base core. Obviously I have to drop the deoxidizer and deodorizer now, plus there's an extra space, no big deal, but I gain a door and two mess tables. So even under new criteria it remains this width. I like this design because the sanitizers do double duty. I like it enough I'll probably continue to use it and cheese the barracks. I don't mind it, there's more than enough decor to go around in the barracks - screen doors have no decor penalty. I can live with it, it's just interesting that the room mechanic causes that kind of thing. What is it? This is my issue - the room overlay just says latrines 'relieve a small amount of stress', same as mess hall. So what? I've already got stress well in hand, as I would guess everyone in this topic does. Maybe if/when decor gets nerfed this will be more significant. But right now the room layout info box gives me very generic, very uninteresting clues as to what the bonus is. I honestly have not bothered to check the dupes for flags related to it, because I just assumed it did what it said, and that did not interest me. I wish they'd be more clear and spell it out more. In a game where I can know the heat capacity and conductivity of everything, and read an encyclopedia about germs, why can't I get more details about these room bonuses? In general, I get that some people maybe liked putting mess tables by their cots. But these room descriptors may actually be specific, and not just words they picked. In the real world, a barracks does not have dining tables in it. That's not what a "barracks" is in the real world. That is very specific, and normally military associated. When you are in a barracks situation, you typically dine in a "mess hall", which is a separate place, only for dining, and with everyone else. These are very specific real world analogues that have these specific limitations in the real world. Or at least, they did 'back in the day' - I don't know about today. But I would assume, based on these specific names, that later the dupes will want more personalized living quarters. This seems like a logical assumption, except that barracks and mess hall each only require a minimum of 1 bed or table. Which is decidedly un-barracks/mess-like. I probably would have required 2 or 3 minimum. So idk, I could be wrong about the intentions. But I think that the rooms we have now are a just a very small beginning to a much more interesting variety to come.

Well, I would imagine that there may also be penalties involved, if you're not meeting the high level dupes' expectations. A little carrot, a little stick. I mean, I agree the size limit is not quite as large as I'd like. But where do you stop with that? You could probably literally find people who want one giant barracks room for all 40 of their dupes, with 320 allowed tiles. I mean at some point there's probably a code impact. Regarding the rest, I agree there's other ways they could have done it. Machinery like deoxidizers could have made noise, discouraging their placement near bedrooms or dining halls. My understanding is there actually is or was plans for that. But again, maybe there was an overhead to that, or it was found annoying visually, and it was cheaper to just make these room zones. If I had to make a choice between less late game lag, or not having to add superfluous doors in your barracks stuff sometimes, I know what I'd pick. I hope that when they revise the decor system, which they've said they were going to do, that this will give us other things to place in rooms. Ya that's fair. At the same time I feel like they'd be getting a biased thread if those of us who are ok with things the way they are didn't speak up. The mechanic as it stands is still quite a bit better than the old radius thing with medcots. I get the idea of arguing on principle. But I'd be really interested to see some actual layouts that would be seriously impacted by this room mechanic , if anyone has examples (excluding the bed-dining thing, which I'm fairly confident will be addressed down the road). I think the biggest impact for me was not being able to place my deoxidizer in the middle of the barracks, but I can live with that.

I had some die for no apparent reason (noticed it on loading) do they drown in oil, or any idea what is their minimum livable temperature?

I kind of like the room mechanics so far. I agree with Risu's comment earlier that not everyone wants to have to manually paint rooms all over. I don't particularly. The current mechanic definitely leads to min-maxing though. The results when the 64-block limit on barracks met my favorite platter width: My biggest complaint is that the mechanic is not very obvious. I spent a long time trying to figure out how to make rooms, before I finally gathered from the forums that they are automatically created. It just so happened that my deordorizers and algae deoxidizers along with lack of doors had prevented any from forming. I admit that I don't really pay attention to tooltips anymore. But if there is not one about rooms, there probably should be. Maybe a bit of text at the top of the room overlay box that explains that 'rooms are automatically created, mouse over the rooms below to find out the requirements'. I haven't made a quarantine room yet (or anything but a barracks) but so far the bonuses don't seem obvious to me, or particularly awesome. I wish they would be spelled out more clearly. The max limits are, as shown in spoiler above, not quite up to what I'd like. But arguing for larger allowances for my personal preferences is a slippery and arbitrary slope so I'm not going to grouse about it. As for the macro discussion, I don't see any need at all to respect any kind of water related 'doors' as far as rooms go. Those are solutions that take advantage of weak spots in game mechanics and balance. So imho people who use that stuff can just suck it up. The solution to wanting a combo room would be for Klei to make such, but make it individual dupe's room, so you just put a max of 1 bed, 1 mess table, etc. maybe a 'suite' room if you will. I imagine they'll create more room types as dupe expectation mechanics evolve and refine. I would assume that in the future, dupes will - after attaining a certain level - no longer be satisfied with 'barracks' or 'mess halls', maybe even not 'latrines', and will in fact *want* individual quarters. I don't really see much other reason to create these room mechanics, other than to have more and better rooms later for increased dupe expectations. The bonuses don't seem compelling or interesting enough on their own.

I would guess that down the road there will be tons and tons of compelling uses for plastic.

Diver's Lungs and Deep Diver's Lungs tooltips state that they reduce oxygen consumption by 25g/s and 50g/s respectively. However it appears that their actual functionality in the context of the new 200g/s oxygen consumption standard are as percentages, not absolutes. My dupes with DL appear to consume 50g/s less (25%) and DDL dupes 100g/s less (50%). Assuming that the new 200g/s is intended and to be the standard, either the tooltips need to change, or the effects need to be brought in line with the tooltips.

"Sense" doesn't enter into it. Not in ONI. Requiring a dupe or not is purely a game balance choice, and it will make "sense" either way. There are many other things (mostly heat related) that don't make "sense" including the fact that some buildings delete heat entirely in their outputs, and the drip cooling/thin liquid cooling bugs. Those are more egregious as they can lead the player to make design decisions that are faulty, until they figure out the illogical mechanic. But this argument about a dupe operating the machine or not, not making "sense", is just a rationalization of not liking the mechanic. It's fine to not like it - I haven't gotten there yet so I can't comment - but just argue it straight. You had it right in the first line of your OP: "I don't think having the oil refinery require manual input from a duplicant is reasonable." Don't confuse the discussion with irrelevant notions of "making sense". If enough people plain don't like it, and think it's too much from a balance perspective, then it may get changed.

So where do these oil biomes hang out? I've found nothing right or left yet. Are they at the top or bottom or something?

As Risu pointed out, there are lots of other assets in the game with 'relic' names in code that clearly had the 'public' name changed later when the plans changed. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for more machines. I'd really really like the cooking area of the game especially to have a lot of different food prep equipment so you actually have a large kitchen area. I just think that if Klei makes a different machine for bleachstone, it will be due to having different power requirements or something, not because of 'logic'.

Oh ya, hydroponics. Didn't think of that. Also forgot about liquid chlorine. I've even advocated liquid chlorine being used for bleachstone in other threads. Hazards of distracted posting I guess. One other thing I'll say, that machine looks like a manually powered version. Which makes me wonder if there would eventually be a powered one, way way down the road.

I makes plenty of sense for this game, and saves Klei the hassle of arting and coding another asset. Since the microbe musher accepts both liquids and solids as material ingredients, it would seem it should be possible to have one machine accept two types of ingredients. However, we currently have no way of bottling gases, and we have no precedent for a machine that accepts both piped and manually carried inputs, nor two different states of piped inputs. So if there are two machines, I think it would be due to code limitations, not any logical quandary.

Microbe musher produces different things depending on the ingredient. No reason this machine could not produce different things depending on what goes in. Though the oil-barrel-looking reservoir is indeed very leading.

The missing half of the disease system: treatment. the pharmacy building, and balm lilies, to make medicine to help restore immunity. And hopefully along with that, disease might be buffed back up now that we'd have a proactive way to deal with it. Also more diseases. At least the ones we had before OU. I'd be a bit surprised if these things aren't part of it. Not entirely surprised though, given the number of other incomplete mechanics and systems we already have. Beyond the other half of the disease system, yes, oil and extractor and probably some sort of suit (which will be the only use for plastic right now). MAYBE a way to use suits effectively, but I'm guessing not. Also one new animal. Either the boarats we've seen in file diving threads, or an outright hostile mob. People love new mobs; it wastes hype to come out with more than one per update.

Idk....vacuum evaporation. According to wikipedia they've apparently nerfed the rl mechanic?