Character Rebalance Discussion thread

[jbeetle]

I also like Gotheran's idea

[bigpak]

Well it costs 6 twigs + 1 pig skin + 2 silk to craft. I doubt we would be able to get the pig skin and silk that fast. And besides it could be raining while your finding the resources or while your fighting mobs such as spiders and hounds. You cant have the umbrella and a weapon active at the same time

I think the new WX-78 negative perk is perfectly balanced, he should take lots of damage in the rain.

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Well it costs 6 twigs + 1 pig skin + 2 silk to craft. I doubt we would be able to get the pig skin and silk that fast. And besides it could be raining while your finding the resources or while your fighting mobs such as spiders and hounds. You cant have the umbrella and a weapon active at the same time

I think the new WX-78 negative perk is perfectly balanced, he should take lots of damage in the rain.

[Gotheran]

Bahahaha I am so sorry I wrote that completely wrong. I meant that he can eat SPOILING food, not rot :DSorry for the misunderstanding

Well he already eats spoiling food without penalty if I'm correct.

[bigpak]

Exactly, I said that he needs to keep it :)I think WX-78 is balanced as the rain damages him, and the umbrella is pretty much useless for anything else other than sanity which isn't really a problem in the rain even if it drains it, this finally gives the umbrella a use. I'm going to be pretty upset though if the umbrella has durability from getting hit from the rain drops :V. Will the snow affect him?

[J20hawkz]

If gears are used to boost stats, surely there has to be more ways of obtaining gears? Also Kevin did you see my idea of rain and snow damaging WX-78 on top of page 4 @ Bigpak: I know its balanced. I posted the effects of rain and snow as a suggestion on page 4.

Edited June 13, 2013 by J20hawkz

[Gotheran]

The rain damage seems a bit too excessive, rain is mostly to push sanity, I would suggest maybe his "processors" don't use vegetables as well as other characters, or maybe he rusts a bit in the rain slowing his movment speed up to half at worst for a short while after the rain ends.

I also like Gotheran's idea

[MENTION=27331]jbeetle[/MENTION] which part? Or do you agree with the whole idea?

[Spazmatic]

If gears are used to boost stats, surely there has to be more ways of obtaining gears?

Hmm,shouldn't there be at least 8 per world? Two knights and two bishops that guard the teleportato drop 2 gears each,and you can dig them up from graves aswell!

[Luggs]

Maybe WX should get a sanity boost from killing things? Since he hates life and all.

[TeoSS69]

also, if you made Wolfgang get hungrier faster it would be stupid, imo. It pretty much cancels out the larger stomach buff.

It's all about making Wolfy consume alot of food faster. A fit body needs food to be fit. What i'm saying is that the true bonus will rely in health and damage, but that will come at the expense of big amount of food. Though with pooping you will get berries and vegies easier.

[jbeetle]

It's all about making Wolfy consume alot of food faster. A fit body needs food to be fit. What i'm saying is that the true bonus will rely in health and damage, but that will come at the expense of big amount of food. Though with pooping you will get berries and vegies easier.

There's a difference between a trade off in perks and a cancellation. I believe trade offs are the way to go if we're talking about base stats. Regardless, cancellations are pointless. He might as well not have the hunger thing at all. Now if it were tied to him doing things like cutting down trees or smashing rocks, that'd be different

[MENTION=27331]jbeetle[/MENTION] which part? Or do you agree with the whole idea?

Specifically about finding some of the mentioned unique abilities items and not starting with them from day one...like each being able to find their own treasure (I still think they should remain unique to that specific character and not be able to be acquired by everyone) Edited June 13, 2013 by jbeetle

[Zechnophobe]

Wilson: I love where he is at. I also love that at first his description doesn't sound like a perk, but as you play the game you realize it is.Kevin, I'm noticing that you are really going for more PRO + CON style balance now, isntead of having most of the characters with their own little perk. I think this is a good way to go, and will allow you to balance some more interesting ideas.I think Wickerbottom is the most boring of the characters to play as. She has this ridiculously easy early game, but once you build your alchemy engine, she does basically nothing else of interest the rest of the game. Most of the ideas for making her 'blue print things easier' sorta follow along this same problematic path. Worse yet, I don't think it is a very interesting theme (in comparison to say willow or the robot). Ultimately, prototyping is a very small part of the game in the current system.So, I sorta had a really really silly idea to replace her current one, that fits the wacky nature of the game. What if her scienceness is shown by her desire to... do experiments on helpless creatures?Pros:Captured birds, butterflies, rabbits, beardlings, bees, etc now have 'Experiment' action instead of 'Murder'. Experiment permanently boosts Wickerbottoms Sanity, but is especially naughty.Cons: She cannot 'Murder' such creatures to gain their meat. Birds will always yield feathers however (she plucks them as part of the experiment).Next up, I want to talk about Wendy and Wolfgang. The weird thing about these guys is that they both sorta do the same thing. They have some special ability that causes them to be able to fight harder than normal baddies. Issue is, Wendy does it in a way that is a million times more thematic and cool than wolfgang. Wendy, however is random and hard to predict, but very strong in what she does. I think Wendy should have a Trigger for Abigail, and that Wolfgang should be more focused on proving himself stronger than the wild:WendyPros:When Wendy goes to sleep, Abigail wakes her up in the night. (she doesn't actually sleep, gains no sanity, loses no hunger, but summons Abigail)In addition, Abigail has a chance to show up at night randomly. This chance increases as Wendy's sanity goes down.Cons:Cannot use bedrolls for actual sleeping purposes.Hates flowers and refuses to pick them.WolfgangPros:Wolfgang takes trophies from monsters. You can 'admire' a trophy to gain sanity(Using it up), and we add a new recipe that turns trophies into a few useful things, like armor, a hat, and maybe some food. (And then allow other characters to get trophies from rare monsters like deerclops, kualaphant, etc)Deals 50% greater melee damage.Cons:Hounds spawn in greater number than normal to track Wolfgang down.Play pattern wise, this gives Wendy a bit more problems in keeping her sanity up, since the big easy ways of restoring it are gone. But she can now go out of her way to summon Abigail when she needs to, to make things a bit less random. Wolfgang on the other hand gets special rewards for killing beasties that will make you want to go out and hit things, but in return must fear the hounds that forever plague him wherever he goes.

[thenotoriousmrbaker]

Meh, I want Wx to be buffed a bit more in terms of the hunger he gets back from eating rot.

[MycoLogical]

Wilson: I love where he is at. I also love that at first his description doesn't sound like a perk, but as you play the game you realize it is.Kevin, I'm noticing that you are really going for more PRO + CON style balance now, isntead of having most of the characters with their own little perk. I think this is a good way to go, and will allow you to balance some more interesting ideas.I think Wickerbottom is the most boring of the characters to play as. She has this ridiculously easy early game, but once you build your alchemy engine, she does basically nothing else of interest the rest of the game. Most of the ideas for making her 'blue print things easier' sorta follow along this same problematic path. Worse yet, I don't think it is a very interesting theme (in comparison to say willow or the robot). Ultimately, prototyping is a very small part of the game in the current system.So, I sorta had a really really silly idea to replace her current one, that fits the wacky nature of the game. What if her scienceness is shown by her desire to... do experiments on helpless creatures?Pros:Captured birds, butterflies, rabbits, beardlings, bees, etc now have 'Experiment' action instead of 'Murder'. Experiment permanently boosts Wickerbottoms Sanity, but is especially naughty.Cons: She cannot 'Murder' such creatures to gain their meat. Birds will always yield feathers however (she plucks them as part of the experiment).Next up, I want to talk about Wendy and Wolfgang. The weird thing about these guys is that they both sorta do the same thing. They have some special ability that causes them to be able to fight harder than normal baddies. Issue is, Wendy does it in a way that is a million times more thematic and cool than wolfgang. Wendy, however is random and hard to predict, but very strong in what she does. I think Wendy should have a Trigger for Abigail, and that Wolfgang should be more focused on proving himself stronger than the wild:WendyPros:When Wendy goes to sleep, Abigail wakes her up in the night. (she doesn't actually sleep, gains no sanity, loses no hunger, but summons Abigail)In addition, Abigail has a chance to show up at night randomly. This chance increases as Wendy's sanity goes down.Cons:Cannot use bedrolls for actual sleeping purposes.Hates flowers and refuses to pick them.WolfgangPros:Wolfgang takes trophies from monsters. You can 'admire' a trophy to gain sanity(Using it up), and we add a new recipe that turns trophies into a few useful things, like armor, a hat, and maybe some food. (And then allow other characters to get trophies from rare monsters like deerclops, kualaphant, etc)Deals 50% greater melee damage.Cons:Hounds spawn in greater number than normal to track Wolfgang down.Play pattern wise, this gives Wendy a bit more problems in keeping her sanity up, since the big easy ways of restoring it are gone. But she can now go out of her way to summon Abigail when she needs to, to make things a bit less random. Wolfgang on the other hand gets special rewards for killing beasties that will make you want to go out and hit things, but in return must fear the hounds that forever plague him wherever he goes.

I actually like your Wickerbottom idea; kudos; I'm very particular about her.

[bigpak]

I think WX-78 would be fine if he kept his current stuff that Kevin just listed in the OP, maybe added a little bit of rust when raining that slows him down by like 10% during the rain?

[Spazmatic]

Some ideas for WickerbottomPositive:Has higher sanity due to being so smartHas a chance to yield blueprints for random items while prototyping(she suddenly get's more ideas!)Contraptions with durability last longerNegative:Stages of stress caused by:a lot of noise from ceatures/a lot of creatures near her. When stressed Wickerbottom progressively starts losing hunger and sanity,and her hair get's messy and her glasses get bend. She can become calm again by researching,or moving away from the stress sourceThe initial prototypes from the first tier require more resources to make the first time

[Velcraft]

I like the idea of trophies for Wolfgang, maybe he would be able to craft heads on sticks and gain a sanity boost from them? It'd also be a ridiculously great idea to make him use the hambat more efficiently, since currently it's just a cool-looking spoiling spear..As for negative things, maybe make him gain naughty points more rapidly? Another idea would be to make the hounds spawn more frequently/in bigger waves, if that's not too complicated code-wise. I mean, as a bigger man he is easier to smell..Or then make him really fear the dark/cold, he may look tough on the outside, but he has his own "beliefs" about some stuff.~Vel

[TeoSS69]

There's a difference between a trade off in perks and a cancellation. I believe trade offs are the way to go if we're talking about base stats. Regardless, cancellations are pointless. He might as well not have the hunger thing at all. Now if it were tied to him doing things like cutting down trees or smashing rocks, that'd be different

You're gonna use even more food to fill a bigger stomach, you know, like it's now. There's a lot of people with OCD out there, including me, that fill him always up. Anyway, it's 3 am here and i'm not going to put my brain cells to work anymore. At least people seem to like the poop thing

[theAmazingUlf]

no god noooooooo. Don't nerf my Wolfie..

[brummbar7]

Thoughts: WILSON: fine as is. Agreed.WILLOW:- Lighter idea, I don't like so much. True, it'd be good for newbs, but as an experienced player, it sounds to me like a waste of an inventory slot on what is basically an infinite torch. - Random fires started at low sanity - sounds like a huge pain in the arse. What if she goes insane when I'm near my grass/sapling/berry bush farm? Sounds way risky, and berry bushes especially are totally non-replaceable.-Overall this does not make me want to play her more. Though as mentioned, the lava caves probably would suddenly make her much more attractive.WX78 - The gears increasing stats thing is a fun idea. I'm seeing a new playstyle for WX78 similar to adventure mode, where you just go through world after world until you've maxed out your stats killing the clockworks guarding the things, then settle down. To end up as what, Wolfgang with a spoilage tolerance? It's definitely an advantage, but it sounds like you'd just end up like Wolfgang so it's not inspiring to me really.Suggestion: eating gears upgrades his speed. So I can go walking-stick-less. AND he can touch a charged lightning rod and get a temporary stat boost ala Wolfgang (or vice-versa, whatever), and maybe he also glows heatstone-like for a time. I agree with a previous mention of rain vs robots - rain and swamps slow him down, maybe reduce his sanity more than normal as well. However, the mentions of monster meat not affecting health or sanity, that's too OP.WICKERBOTTOM: Maybe she requires less resources to build things? I don't know if that's practical code-wise. That would definitely be a lasting benefit though, and would add up a lot over time. Still not very unique. Having a hard time coming up with truly unique stuff for her.WENDY: The ghost thing is already pretty unique. If it was just a bit more controllable I think that would perhaps be enough. Some of the grave related ideas are interesting. If she digs up a ghost it should be friendly and follow her till it dies (again)MAXWELL - his advantage is significant, and it's fine. You have to beat adventure mode to get him after all. I think anyone you have to beat adventure mode to get should be allowed to have more perks than negatives. It's a lot of work. WES - conversely to Maxwell, Wes should be unlockable through xp. I have no desire whatsoever to go through adventure mode over and over just to find him. I'm hoping more of the new characters will be adventure mode unlocks, because right now I have no real motivation to do it again.WOLFGANG - is fine as he is. He's there for one reason and that's for a newb that is having trouble and has died a lot, can use him and have an easier time. That's it. Wolfgang, Wes, and Maxwell, do NOT need to be "balanced".

[bigpak]

Wolfang needs to be nerfed, he is overpowered as is. I wouldn't exactly say nerf per say but add more cons.

[Yonan]

Wendy is the char I think needs the most work. I like the design and the concept, but not the implementation.

Wendy

Positives:

- Befriends nearby animals that follow her and fight at her side. To make up for lost sister.

- Requires less food. She's small.

Negatives

- Loses extra sanity at night as she is haunted by her dead sister, similar to how monsters appear at lower sanity.

- Double sanity loss from digging graves.

Alternative focusing on friendly Abigail which I like less.

Positives:

- Abigail has a chance to spawn on taking damage, will defend Wendy. Day and night.

- Rarely spawns a nightmare fuel due to the presence of her sister.

- Loses no sanity at night as she knows her sister will protect her.

Negatives

- Triple sanity loss from digging graves.

- More vulnerable to the cold.

[Gotheran]

Hrm, those stats for WX seem, weird, especially the damage in the rain. Me no like. I hope I can trust the modding community to fix it. [MENTION=8]Kevin[/MENTION] rain damage < craftable maps

Edited June 13, 2013 by Gotheran

[gustavogsl]

I think wilson should have just one more perk being a scientist he should create some kind of poisoncould have a timeout

[leo1911]

I agree with Wolfgang getting hungrier faster, (1.25 rate lets say) to compensate his higher health and hunger bar.He should also use up 2 durability per swing of any weapon to compensate over his higher damage (being too strong he damages weapons faster)And maybe id add up something sanity-related like gaining sanity after defeating a monster or a boss monster maybe?Also Wendy should spawn Abigail When low on sanity, and Abigail should give a sanity bonus as she's Wendy's sister and feels safe around her (?).Wendy could have her speed increased when low on health as she is experienced in escaping death.Those are my favourite characters so yeah, Wolfie needs a nerf and Wendy needs some usefulness.

[spiritcrusher77]

Here're some ideas:WickerbottomPositive:-Gets a minor per every few seconds second sanity increase by being near the Science Machine, it's greater for the Alchemy Engine.-Has more sanity overall.Negative:-Being near the Shadow Manipulator and using magical items drains her sanity.-She has lower health (She's a frail old lady!)Wes:Positives:-He's better at hiding (Mimes don't make sounds).Negatives:Same as now.-Spirit