[Game Update] - 585956

[GenomeSquirrel]

Anyone know if we got Ashley skins now?

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Shadow flames are very underrated, lunar flames very ovverrated. I agree the cooldown is too much, should be like 4 seconds or something for shadow, 8 for lunar.

I greatly disagree yea I get it the spell has higher dps but is it really worth using it as a dps skill?

 

On a side note aside from fixing Bernie did they at least raise the regen speed? Because even before it broke I tested it and it felt pretty useless.

[Yuuko]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Personally I don't really see the point of giving them a cooldown or stack count especially the shadow one which is already underpowered compared to the lunar one now there's really no reason to pick shadow alignment...

 

On a side note how long is the cooldown?

Edit: nevermind on the cd

I feel like it will probably need a damage nerf OR some gate to prevent meme videos of Willow killing bosses with only spells making ppl cry on the forums about OP Willow.

Between the two - I would much rather be limited to 1 stack of embers as a gate than have either a damage nerf or a cd.  Being limited to 1 stack of embers means choosing between all spells, and when to use them is important.  Having a CD on spells is a worse gate b/c its more prone to just give you bad interactions.  The damage is currently justifiable, if it were nerfed it would enter "why would I use this" realm - especially for the shadow spell that is pretty lack luster even spammed lol.  14 seconds for shadow spell?????? literally no one will use this spell with this CD.

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

The lunar flames have less dps than a dark sword.

Dps isn't why their great it's their crowd control and flexibility.

[Wardin25]

7 minutes ago, Anthony_L3hr said:

Beautiful skins! All I had at a moment's notice,

Im pretty sure the nord spear has a variant for Wigfrid's spear, is that one changed too?

 

[Jakepeng99]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Dps isn't why their great it's their crowd control and flexibility.

Still not as good as everyone says.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Shosuko said:

I feel like it will probably need a damage nerf OR some gate to prevent meme videos of Willow killing bosses with only spells making ppl cry on the forums about OP Willow.

Between the two - I would much rather be limited to 1 stack of embers as a gate than have either a damage nerf or a cd.  Being limited to 1 stack of embers means choosing between all spells, and when to use them is important.  Having a CD on spells is a worse gate b/c its more prone to just give you bad interactions.  The damage is currently justifiable, if it were nerfed it would enter "why would I use this" realm - especially for the shadow spell that is pretty lack luster even spammed lol.  14 seconds for shadow spell?????? literally no one will use this spell with this CD.

The problem with limting the stack size is that all this will do is lead to people stockpiling bees instead and doing the same thing which will lead to klei eliminating bees and so on.

I'm someone who's usually pretty hard on balance but I feel like they struck a ok balance with Willow without the added restrictions at least for the lunar flame as I still just see the shadow flame as inferior in comparsion to the lunar one but that's besides the point. My take is if lunar flames are a problem then so are dark swords.

[Anthony_L3hr]

1 minute ago, Wardin25 said:

Im pretty sure the nord spear has a variant for Wigfrid's spear, is that one changed too?

 

Yes,

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Still not as good as everyone says.

I agree there

[-Variant]

Here's all the upgrades for the skinned items.

[Evelo]

That new menu splash is one of my favorites. I am a huge fan of it. Looks wonderful.

[Captain_Rage]

Just now, Evelo said:

That new menu splash is one of my favorites. I am a huge fan of it. Looks wonderful.

Is there a vignette of it?

[Yuuko]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

The problem with limting the stack size is that all this will do is lead to people stockpiling bees instead and doing the same thing which will lead to klei eliminating bees and so on.

I'm someone who's usually pretty hard on balance but I feel like they struck a ok balance with Willow without the added restrictions at least for the lunar flame as I still just see the shadow flame as inferior in comparsion to the lunar one but that's besides the point. My take is if lunar flames are a problem then so are dark swords.

I agree, and yet here we are - 20s cd on a spell that deals okay damage for a high cost...

[Evelo]

1 minute ago, Captain_Rage said:

Is there a vignette of it?

not that I am ware of. Hope there will be. it's awesome.

[chirsg]

34 minutes ago, -Variant said:

Looks like they changed some of the fire FX, too. A lot more violent now.

Everything reminds me of her. 

[Q42]

Pretty disappointed by the cooldown. Waiting mechanics have never generated fun gameplay. Especially on the shadow fire, it was already lacking in damage and now you can only use it every 14 seconds. Tested against Fuelweaver and makes the fight just feel worse to play compared to my ~10 fights before this update.

Edit: Also, no buffs for Willow besides fixing patch up? Bernie perks are still lackluster and don't change gameplay, Burning Bernie is still not worth the points, she has no utility, and the duration on burning frenzy makes it feel unimpactful. The more I test and think about it the more nonsensical the cooldown feels.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Q42

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, DiogoW said:

Bootleg Getaway is no longer dropped as loot, but can now be obtained by trading Fish with Frostjaw after defeating them.  This can be done up to 5 times per encounter.

i like this change

[LuneCaptor]

I think I'm being part of the "community asks for a change then asks for it to be undone" mob but, really, I don't think Warrior's Reprise was due a nerf. It was never really that strong to begin with...
For it to be "super strong" you'd need to revive a ton of allies, which isn't feasible on the average playthrough: People are amazed by how she could resurrect an endless amount of nearby ghosts; They fail to recognize the scarcity of such situations where, first of all, there needs to be a huge amount of players and, additionally, they must all die. 

Them needing to die was a big deal: You'd rarely be in a fight where everyone except you dies, only to die again and again so Wigfrid could abuse her "overpowered" resurrection, noone dies that often. If someone will die during a boss-fight only to be resurrected and die again, they're severely under-geared for it. Warrior's Reprise could never boost a strong team's efficiency to their potential, all it was capable of was allowing the Wigfrid to 'carry' a group of low-skilled players.

The nerf wasn't really deserved, it was fine before (outside of ridiculously specific hypothetical scenarios). Maybe the resurrection nerf wasn't a big deal (as I said, there won't be that many dead people for you to resurrect), so it's fine; The inspiration nerf was overkill - even with the skill for instant use songs not to cost inspiration (which, as of right now, is necessary for it to even be usable, which shouldn't be the case) you require high amounts of inspiration to even use it once.

[chirsg]

For the record, I'm upset about Golden Wigfrid and I think she should be brought back as a feature, but credit where credit is due, good work on applying skins to Elding Spear and the commander helmet. Thanks a lot for that. 

But seriously make Golden Wigfrid a feature

 

[Bird Up]

from 0 to 14 second cooldown changes the entire gameplay. it went from spammy to once every quarter-minute. I think it is healthy to have a cooldown on the skill, but also think the skills should have some early-late game scaling. I'm thinking of Max and his duelists and how they scale based on equipment. Willow's magic is too powerful early on, and really just meh after cc. I think willow should get bonus damage/cooldown reduction on these skills from moon and shadow affiliated equipment

Edited December 8, 2023 by Bird Up

[maxwell_winters]

4 minutes ago, LuneCaptor said:

I don't think Warrior's Reprise was due a nerf. It was never really that strong to begin with...

I second this. I said on another thread that it's probably the most risky and situational revive in the game. There is a high chance that whatever killed your players is gonna snipe them again when they pick up their items. 

Some players just blew things out of proportion because the item sounded too strong on paper, 

[Yuuko]

7 minutes ago, LuneCaptor said:

I think I'm being part of the "community asks for a change then asks for it to be undone" mob but, really, I don't think Warrior's Reprise was due a nerf. It was never really that strong to begin with...
For it to be "super strong" you'd need to revive a ton of allies, which isn't feasible on the average playthrough: People are amazed by how she could resurrect an endless amount of nearby ghosts; They fail to recognize the scarcity of such situations where, first of all, there needs to be a huge amount of players and, additionally, they must all die. 
 

must have multiple players, who all die, except you, AND you have enough inspiration...

[Trips]

3 minutes ago, Bird Up said:

from 0 to 14 second cooldown changes the entire gameplay. it went from spammy to once every quarter-minute. I think it is healthy to have a cooldown on the skill, but also think the skills should have some early-late game scaling. I'm thinking of Max and his duelists and how they scale based on equipment. Willow's magic is too powerful early on, and really just meh after cc. I think willow should get bonus damage on these skills from moon and shadow affiliated equipment

you can argue it's warranted for lunar flames, but 20 seconds is excessive. and giving shadow flames a cooldown kinda just nukes the skill, since it was pretty lackluster to begin with and only really beat out lunar flames if you were spamming it against a boss... which cost like 5 times the embers and not all the flames were guaranteed to hit.

[Masked Koopa]

I really don't know if the boots need a limit, it just kind of turns something really useful into something that constitutes a chore where you have to restock on boots. At the very least i'd like a way to set up permanent whirlpools from one side of the ocean to the other.

[chirsg]

13 minutes ago, LuneCaptor said:

I think I'm being part of the "community asks for a change then asks for it to be undone" mob but, really, I don't think Warrior's Reprise was due a nerf. It was never really that strong to begin with...
For it to be "super strong" you'd need to revive a ton of allies, which isn't feasible on the average playthrough: People are amazed by how she could resurrect an endless amount of nearby ghosts; They fail to recognize the scarcity of such situations where, first of all, there needs to be a huge amount of players and, additionally, they must all die. 

Them needing to die was a big deal: You'd rarely be in a fight where everyone except you dies, only to die again and again so Wigfrid could abuse her "overpowered" resurrection, noone dies that often. If someone will die during a boss-fight only to be resurrected and die again, they're severely under-geared for it. Warrior's Reprise could never boost a strong team's efficiency to their potential, all it was capable of was allowing the Wigfrid to 'carry' a group of low-skilled players.

The nerf wasn't really deserved, it was fine before (outside of ridiculously specific hypothetical scenarios). Maybe the resurrection nerf wasn't a big deal (as I said, there won't be that many dead people for you to resurrect), so it's fine; The inspiration nerf was overkill - even with the skill for instant use songs not to cost inspiration (which, as of right now, is necessary for it to even be usable, which shouldn't be the case) you require high amounts of inspiration to even use it once.

 

5 minutes ago, maxwell_winters said:

I second this. I said on another thread that it's probably the most risky and situational revive in the game. There is a high chance that whatever killed your players is gonna snipe them again when they pick up their items. 

Some players just blew things out of proportion because the item sounded too strong on paper, 

 

5 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

must have multiple players, who all die, except you, AND you have enough inspiration...

I have to vouch for these sentiments. I main her and I've tried using the reprise in combat and it's simply not as effective as it's hyped up to be. We all looked at it with the bombastic side eye but in practice, it simply wasn't something that was particularly abusable. 

I'll have to check the stats when I log into the game because I was busy morning the loss of she who shall not be named, but all that being said, I'm a little indifferent about the nerf all in all, as the use of the OG reprise would be something I seldom use.

It's gone from seldom used to "Hey, the fight's almost finished. You should die for a laugh and I'll revive you"