Is there anything wrong with lategame content being less survival oriented?

[goblinball]

I’ve seen a lot of ppl on the forums complain about how Survival isn’t much of a challenge in the late game and that the new rifts content is more combat oriented than just survival oriented. I completely understand this perspective but I’ve been starting to question if this is even a problem in the first place

I enjoy the current progression and lategame gameplay loop rn honestly; it’s very rewarding being able to conquer the constant and turning the game from a survival game to a power fantasy sandbox. Making late game content and threats more survival oriented and less about going out and fighting them yourself would get rid of the sense of strength and fun i (and potentially many others) feel at lategame. All that this content would really do is feel intrusive and annoying; why should my reward for being able to survive in the constant be making my life harder? I’ve already bested the constant and proven I can survive in it, we really don’t need to do this again especially when I have other, not-survival things I want to do after getting past earlygame.

[Dextops]

I would love both. More natural disasters and mobs coming from rifts would both be great and I hope both are added in the future. Make the world feel like it’s in a crisis after rifts have opened

[Brago-sama]

I don't know what i want, I just wanna have fun

[Mike23Ua]

6 minutes ago, Dextops said:

I would love both. More natural disasters and mobs coming from rifts would both be great and I hope both are added in the future. Make the world feel like it’s in a crisis 

As long as there’s toggles to turn it on or off, then yea I agree..

maybe for example if Klei added Tornados or floods to DST they could be off by Default but for players who want that chaos they can toggle it on.

the peaceful base builders are happy, the survival players are happy.. everyone wins right?

[Mysterious box]

12 minutes ago, goblinball said:

I’ve seen a lot of ppl on the forums complain about how Survival isn’t much of a challenge in the late game and that the new rifts content is more combat oriented than just survival oriented. I completely understand this perspective but I’ve been starting to question if this is even a problem in the first place

I enjoy the current progression and lategame gameplay loop rn honestly; it’s very rewarding being able to conquer the constant and turning the game from a survival game to a power fantasy sandbox. Making late game content and threats more survival oriented and less about going out and fighting them yourself would get rid of the sense of strength and fun i (and potentially many others) feel at lategame. All that this content would really do is feel intrusive and annoying; why should my reward for being able to survive in the constant be making my life harder? I’ve already bested the constant and proven I can survive in it, we really don’t need to do this again especially when I have other, not-survival things I want to do after getting past earlygame.

My main issue is there's really not much to dst survival to really make it feel like a survival game and yea people die a lot but it's usually because some creature killed them or they didn't understand how the game worked. I feel like when we've made it to our supposed "end game" we should be able to experience survival mechanics that exist beyond die because you didn't know. I want dst to be more than just a shallow jumpscare in terms of survival.

With it's current design I don't even understand why the end game is separated from the rest of the game it's not like survival gets some big shake up if lore ends up being the only thing that's supposed to justify this it's just gonna feel pretty lame to me in my opinion at least. But hey if I end up completely disappointed with the direction the "end game" takes I'll at least have skill trees to play with I guess. 

[Captain_Rage]

40 minutes ago, Dextops said:

I would love both. More natural disasters and mobs coming from rifts would both be great and I hope both are added in the future. Make the world feel like it’s in a crisis after rifts have opened

Same. I want additional challenges but I don't want to lose my world after defeating the end-game bosses. xdd

[Hornete]

I don't think there's anything inherently "wrong" with it, but it's what I came to the game for, and it has been out of the focus for several years in DST while questlines and raid bosses took the stage(and I do like that content, don't get me wrong!). Having a return of survival-oriented challenges is very nice.

I have my issues with the rift content as any other would, but it's genuinely been really exciting turning them on from the beginning and having the slew of different dangers coming at you like brightshades and acid rain, feels like Shipwrecked/Hamlet dangers again! So far these mechanics are fairly barebones but I have hope for them to flourish into something expansive and exciting. I'm very excited for the future lunar thralls they'll be implementing.

[Mysterious box]

9 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

Same. I want additional challenges but I don't want to lose my world after defeating the end-game bosses. xdd

Doesn't endless mode solve that?

[Captain_Rage]

46 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Doesn't endless mode solve that?

Ye, but that feels cheap and takes away the fun of surviving, lol. OK, bring on any challenge. I won't whine if I lose my world.

[00petar00]

Most survival/sandbox games that I play allow me to overcome majority of survival mechanics after enough time.

The only difference is that usually death has a bigger impact compared to don't starve and I don't mind that as it would be my fault if it happens when I am fully prepared.

I can usually craft better gear in most games when I reach late game and that means weather isn't a problem so why isn't there something like this in don't starve? Thermal stones are used for the first winter and you will be using them on your 10th year's winter too. Body slot items exist but you are losing inventory space which is usually fine when you aren't gathering everything but there shouldn't need to be such a compromise on my high day count world.

Solution: Something like vortex cloak but instead of armor it should control your temperature from overheating or freezing and it could have the same amount of inventory slots. The boss that drops the item could spawn on year 5 or 10 so players can't obtain this early on.

Why do I have to kill Antlion every year or I get punished? (feeding him is not worth it and even if it was the problem is that you would still need to visit him every summer)

Solution: Let us build a structure made out of dreadstone or some material that will disable his ability to cause sinkholes and earthquakes.

Why aren't we able to stop hound/worm waves from happening? 

Solution: Allow me to build a hound/worm bait-like structure and the hounds or worms that were supposed to attack me instead spawn around that structure.

Now we also have rifts that will permanently spawn creatures and modify weather/survival conditions. This makes endless servers a mess as lot of players die to brightshades so there is even less of a chance that someone decides to play there. 

Solution: Give us the ability to close them, I understand that klei wants the changes to be permanent but it is an issue since this is multiplayer and some players don't want rifts enabled.

 

I prefer optional content because you can choose whether to do it or not and don't need to waste time on things you don't want to do.

I like survival in DST but it usually keeps me engaged for like first few hundred days, after that it is my sandbox time and I don't want annoyances or chores that I am forced to do,  game shouldn't make me feel like I am working a job. Its not like there is no chores to be done in other sandbox games but there aren't nearly as many that are mandatory, that's the difference.

[pyroisshy]

i wish that these lategame "threats" felt different than regular boring weather or other seasonal stuff. The current late game really centers around gearing up for combat, so maybe make the new threats revolve around new harder enemies or corruptions of old foes? Stuff like the new rift-earthquakes dropping the same boulders that antlion does feels really lazy. Why not make it so that the new rift earthquakes drop like, shadowy boulders that can spawn enemies, and disappear over time instead of just cluttering the world for no reason

[Baark0]

On the one hand it's a survival game, on the other hand, killing gods is way more fun than just surviving. It's why I play Terraria over Minecraft whenever I want a sandbox based survival game (that and minecraft survival mode isnt very fun without mods)

[Masked Koopa]

1 hour ago, Baark0 said:

On the one hand it's a survival game, on the other hand, killing gods is way more fun than just surviving. It's why I play Terraria over Minecraft whenever I want a sandbox based survival game (that and minecraft survival mode isnt very fun without mods)

Terraria is not a survival game. The game's default settings give you infinite lives and don't make you drop your items other than coins. As long as you stash your coins every once in a while you lose literally nothing from dying.

[Cassielu]

Some characters are born disabled in boss combat, like Walter and Wormwood before update. If combat is going to be a major part of the game, players who make different choices should be given equal access to it.

[goblinball]

1 hour ago, 00petar00 said:

(Snip)

I 100% agree with your post. I think getting more and more control over the constant and more tools to counter the constant’s threats as I progress is very fun and I’d be down for more things like what you suggested in your post, especially now that we’re getting even later game content.

being able to better nullify some early game threats would also open up more room for late game threats and content and allow klei to add even crazier content, since they won’t have to worry about taking into account pre existing things such as hound waves or seasonal threats as much. 

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Masked Koopa said:

Terraria is not a survival game. The game's default settings give you infinite lives and don't make you drop your items other than coins. As long as you stash your coins every once in a while you lose literally nothing from dying.

I mean that's more or less not much different from dst if you prepare enough with the only difference being you have to work for it and that's only if you consider survival to be the default experience which honestly considering how hard dst is trying to remove itself from survival I'm beginning to see endless as the default mode.

Honestly the most depressing thing about the situation to me is I fully expect from here on out all we're going to get is some new mobs and bosses for the rest of this content and that will be lame. Like I get it people don't like survival mechanics but is it really interesting just plopping enemies in random corners of the map to fight? Will everyone really be satisfied if that's all don't starve together's supposed end game amounts to? If so I'd rather we just keep getting character refreshes every few years and add more and more new characters at least that would keep things from getting stale I guess.

[Masked Koopa]

39 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Like I get it people don't like survival mechanics but is it really interesting just plopping enemies in random corners of the map to fight? Will everyone really be satisfied if that's all don't starve together's supposed end game amounts to? If so I'd rather we just keep getting character refreshes every few years and add more and more new characters at least that would keep things from getting stale I guess.

I think survival mechanics are just more impactful specifically because they are not optional. A bad boss fight can get away with a lot more because people can simply elect not to fight it, or to take it on with a humungous number of minions or some sort of cheese strat or glitch. A bad survival mechanic will impact the experience of basically every player, and so people are gonna be a lot more vocally against how it is implemented.

[00petar00]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Honestly the most depressing thing about the situation to me is I fully expect from here on out all we're going to get is some new mobs and bosses for the rest of this content and that will be lame. Like I get it people don't like survival mechanics but is it really interesting just plopping enemies in random corners of the map to fight? Will everyone really be satisfied if that's all don't starve together's supposed end game amounts to? If so I'd rather we just keep getting character refreshes every few years and add more and more new characters at least that would keep things from getting stale I guess.

Yes, that is what I want, just give me bosses and mobs that I can ignore or fight at my own terms.

I play DST for hundreds of hours on the same world easily, I don't want survival becoming more difficult as time passes unless it is tied to rifts and we can turn them off, I wouldn't mind it in that case.

I don't think survival content is bad but not everyone wants to be forced to deal with chores and survival mechanics on day 10 000+ world in the same way you deal with them in your first 100 days, the game should become easier as time passes and you amass resources or otherwise there would be no point in doing that.

 

Let me be clear, I wouldn't mind new mobs or bosses as that seems simple and impossible for developers to introduce something I don't like but honestly I just don't want chores that I can't overcome, like your thoughts on pillars and not wanting it to be permanent even if it is expensive like dreadstone as that is what most of the megabasers don't want.

[-Variant]

11 hours ago, goblinball said:

I’ve seen a lot of ppl on the forums complain about how Survival isn’t much of a challenge in the late game and that the new rifts content is more combat oriented than just survival oriented. I completely understand this perspective but I’ve been starting to question if this is even a problem in the first place

I've been majorly disappointed in the fact that the threats are optional.
I had originally hoped I would not need to opt into the challenges. I think being opt into a harder difficulty mechanic or 'mode' or whatever isn't a problem but it's not what I personally wanted. I know a lot peers who share this mindset.

That aside, I really do not enjoy Don't Starves combat, and I wish it wasn't the major focus! I'd love more threats and changes to the world itself. I also really want to see existing things being changed up that aren't entirely new.

Acid rain is very fun in the sense that it makes changes to what's already there, this doesn't actually do much of anything currently but it buffing existing mobs (WHY ONLY BATS??) and blocking off access to fishing (sorta) is really cool! I want more of that!
More environmental threats that cannot be 'stopped' by killing it is something I'd really hope to dive into more. Harsher seasons, or something!

Combat is an innate part of the game currently so obviously I don't expect everything to be non-combat orientated, though I do want the survival side to get just as much love as combat seems to be getting!

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Masked Koopa said:

I think survival mechanics are just more impactful specifically because they are not optional. A bad boss fight can get away with a lot more because people can simply elect not to fight it, or to take it on with a humungous number of minions or some sort of cheese strat or glitch. A bad survival mechanic will impact the experience of basically every player, and so people are gonna be a lot more vocally against how it is implemented.

I'm aware of that already however it's really disappointing to just stop at badly implemented survival mechanics rather than fixing them or reimagining them in a better way.

 

38 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I wouldn't mind new mobs or bosses as that seems simple and impossible for developers to introduce something I don't like but honestly I just don't want

Moon Quay.

 

39 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

like your thoughts on pillars and not wanting it to be permanent even if it is expensive like dreadstone as that is what most of the megabasers don't want.

The only reason I was against this was the fact that it feels really stupid to introduce a mechanic into the late game with a immediate off switch I honestly wouldn't have minded as much if it were part of the early or mid game. Though I much rather have preferred we just got rid of both acid rain and the boulder mechanic considering the former is a nothing mechanic due to how weak it is pretty much turning it into a safer version of rain in some aspects while the latter is a mechanic that does literally nothing now the moment it's introduced.

Personally I really do think dst needs two separate modes one for creative and one for survival. Because at the end of the day if survival never evolves that means the game will never become more interesting for anyone who isn't just combat crazy nor will those people have anything to look forward to besides endless refreshes. I already know a game that decided that and went down that path it's been dealing with endless power creep ever since. Because if the only thing that matters is fighting everyone has to be good at fighting but as soon as everyone gets good at fighting now enemies have to be harder to kill but now character's need to stronger still and the cycle continues. I know Kiel doesn't want to divide the community but I don't think alienating survival fans is a good compromise either. I'm sure many people have already noticed it but don't starve is already taking it's steps towards this with more and more characters getting summons, combat, and harvesting perks while slowly blending character specialties together.

[ALCRD]

5 hours ago, Masked Koopa said:

Terraria is not a survival game.

Technically it isn't but the game has survival elements with settings to drop items on death , pernamently lose character on death and you can even enable needing to eat to survive.

The latter at the moment is effect of a secret world seed but with the upcoming changes to world creation and seed traits combinations it will be part of the world creation menu.

[Ryusuta]

I'm fine with late-game survival content and challenges... IF THEY'RE REWARDING AND FUN.

The problem is that there's a lot of massive new annoyances for maybe one or two decent items in both of the new sets, and it's genuinely less of a hassle to ignore the new stuff entirely.

Returning to a bunch of Brightshade Plants at my base every other day isn't a new challenge after the first handful of them. It's just annoying. Major, MAJOR ditto for the rockslides. And no, the dumb pillars has in no way changed my opinion on that.

Yes, the Scythe and Brightshade Smasher are neat, but I'll take an extra 5 seconds or so to do the chores the normal way if it means not having to torch poison gas everywhere or do a bunch of killer weed whacking over and over again.

[Jakepeng99]

The caves riffs have changed good to change survival, though the surface riffs need more than brightshades.

[chirsg]

I want hamlet in dst.

[cropo]

I'd really like the rifts to corrupt the bosses to make them a post-game variant super destroyer boss that drops an item that when combined with their original drop makes it cooler. Imagine a brightshade eyebrella or something.